RogueLeader

@snooker, this is kind of a thought for the future, but I had an idea about the final scene of the film that is similar to something you have done before.

I felt it was a shame that Rey’s look didn’t really change much in the film. Her changing her outfit or putting her hair down to me was symbolic of her no longer wanting to find her parents (or her parents to find), and that should have a new style to represent her trying to forge her own identity. I’m guessing they had to go with a look similar to TFA because of her scenes with Leia. While it would be difficult to change her outfit through the whole film, it would be interesting if at the end of the film she has a somewhat different look.

I think it would be cool to make her clothes half black/half white, just like you did with Obi-Wan’s in that test you did awhile back. It could also be symbolic of her acknowledging both the light and the darkness in her.

While changing her hair would be much more difficult and probably outside of your or my skills, maybe just erasing two of her buns and leaving one bun that is a little bigger might be doable for someone to do eventually. Especially since it is one scene and not the entire movie.

I just think it is too complicated. Her being a clone of Palpatine or Luke makes little sense. By definition a clone is a copy of a person. So Rey would need to be a copy of someone that looks like her.

Sure, you could say she has Luke’s DNA or Palpatine’s DNA, but at that point is she really a clone? I definitely think even if you could make a good argument for that, it would be just too confusing for the audience.

Maybe Kylo could say, “Palpatine made you.” to imply she is some kind of genetic Force experiment, like an anti-Chosen One. And maybe there could be failed clone experiments of Rey in those tubes. But it still raises the question of who the original Rey was.

That would be great!! And I had a similar thought about the finale montage.

I had this idea of reusing the Endor shots, but have the Ewoks watch the Falcon flying overhead to establish Kef-Bir as Endor, because why make the gravesite of the Death Star II a different planet? And it would imply that the natives Jannah and the other Stormtroopers refused to kill were the Ewoks. Maybe the First Order were wanting to get revenge on the creatures that helped topple the Empire.

Trevorrow’s Duel of the Fates version of episode IX had some pretty cool imagery. I think it would be a cool connection if we had the First Order meeting take place on a Star Destroyer floating above Coruscant, reminiscent to this piece of concept art from his script. It could just be a regular Star Destroyer, though, like the Finalizer. All you would really need to do is create a single establishing shot, and maybe a planet approach shot.

I’m not sure I understand what the purpose is. I think it makes the Force feel a little technological when it should be rather natural.

If anything, the Palpatine radio call could have a mix of radio interference, and a mix of the Force connection sound when Kylo connects to Leia, rather than the Force skype sound. I think the sounds are slightly different. Since Ben and Rey’s bond is unique, I think the Emperor connecting to Kylo could sound more like the more general connection sound. I think combining those two sounds there would be enough to make it ambiguous. I think adding that sound to the Force skype sessions just feels a little unnatural. My two cents though!

I personally don’t have a problem with the slow-mo shot, but I can see why people might not like it.

I had mentioned this before, but a way to get that idea across might be to reinsert the deleted scene of Finn’s elevator encounter with the stromtroopers, but redub the one that speaks with Finn. Maybe the stormtrooper actually recognizes Finn, but they let him go as sort of a passive act of defiance. All you would need is a voice actor, and no new vfx would be necessary.

It does seem like there was an issue where they felt they needed a primary, ultimate evil, antagonist, because they wanted to redeem Kylo and they felt that wouldn’t be possible if Kylo was that ultimate baddie.

In the OT you had the ultimate evil with the Emperor to contrast to Vader, and another example with Avatar: The Last Airbender, Ozai was the ultimate evil to contrast with Zuko. Both Vader and Zuko found redemption while the ultimate evil was defeated. It almost seems like a narrative rule. But I think it would’ve been compelling to keep Kylo as the ultimate evil, and ask the question, “Can the ultimate evil be saved?”

NFBisms said:

I’ll try to respond to everyone, especially you Rogue, but for now that should give people a clearer idea of what I’m going for.

No rush, NFB! I think your reasoning for avoiding the “dark side corruption angle”, as well as keeping the Padmé scenes in the proper order, make total sense. Sorry I’m not providing much help!

And the cultist sounds really solid. I think the biggest to me, that I think you should consider, is to be picky about which lines from outside sources you use. Like I mentioned, I think the video game lines for Obi could pass, especially with some adjustments, but I don’t think any of the outside source lines for Anakin in that scene really fit.

Doing a great job man!

Had an image of a pretty cool visual in my head for an alternate moment for the ending scene.

I have mentioned before that instead of having Rey bury the old lightsabers, we could see her build her new one rather than pull it out of nowhere. Even though Rey goes to Lars Homestead, I wish the ending of the film focused more on how this is the beginning of Rey’s new life. This last scene feels less about her and more about the old characters strangely enough to me.

So imagine we get this sequence of saber parts floating around and coming together. During the construction, I had this image of the first sun rising over the horizon in the background, and we see the crystal floating right at the heart of the sun as the parts of the saber close in around it, making it appear as if the lightsaber is capturing the light of the sun.

I think there is a lot of great symbolism here for a few reasons. Many were speculating on the significance of Rey having a yellow lightsaber, but I think this would make it clearer. Throughout the saga the sun has represented hope, and the lightsaber capturing the light of the sun, as well as the blade being the color of a sun, illustrates the lightsaber as a symbol of hope. Plus, Rey’s name conjures the image of a “ray” of sunlight, so this would help represent this lightsaber as a reflection of her identity. This is her lightsaber, and no one else’s.

Obviously this would require new footage, but luckily I think it all could be done through CGI. One would have to model lightsaber parts and animate them, but it might be rather straightforward for someone who is familiar with animation. If it could be done I think it would be a beautiful sequence.

There’s a few other amusing parallels with ROTJ outside the obvious, too. Not only do we have a left-field heritage twist with Rey Palpatine, but Finn fills in the role as back-up Force-sensitive like Leia did. We also get the nature vs technology theme with the Orbaks on the Star Destroyer. Sigh.

Since in this version Padme brings Obi-Wan rather than sneaking onto Padme’s ship without her knowing, I edited the scene of their conversation so it ends sooner and leaves its conclusion open-ended.

https://streamable.com/bjs39

That’s amazing and so are you!

A part of me feels like there should be more with that ending, but I honestly don’t know what. It just feels rather straightforward and not surprising at all.

Glad you guys like it! I had talked about it before but NFB inspired me to go ahead and make a proof-of-concept.

Luckily I think continuity of that last shot of Padmé could be fixed if you just rotoscope a different background behind her. I think it would work.

You would think that would be a day one conversation. I think it is unfair to say the director’s have free reign, but then be like, “Actually, we don’t want you to do that.”

I personally am glad we got Ben redeemed, but if that is what Lucasfilm wanted then they should’ve made that clear from the beginning. Maybe they weren’t sure what they wanted initially, and just wanted to see what Colin came up with and if they liked it. But once they read the script they realized having Kylo die with little to no redemption just didn’t work for them.

But even Abrams and Terrio didn’t do an incredible job at delivering that.

Regarding Hux, in retrospect instead of committing seppuku, I think a more fitting end to Hux would’ve been to be carried off and killed by a mob of revolting Stormtroopers, since he was in charge of the program.

That’s a fair point, Dom! And I do think I would’ve preferred that image of Hux stabbing himself with a lightsaber as the First Order falls apart in the background. Maybe suicide would be too dark for a Star Wars movie, but I think it would’ve been a cool way for him to go out. I don’t think Hux had to have been a Force-wannabe to a lightsaber on display in his office or something.

I had similar thoughts about the Knights of Ren. You could have one that is the most prominent Knight, could’ve been Matt Smith, and he sort of becomes the de facto leader once they depose Kylo or Kylo turns back to the light. Not only could you give him the Palpatine make-up, but you could layer his voice with Ian McDiarmid’s. It could sort of sound like Palpatine’s voice when he baptizes Vader in Revenge of the Sith.

It is a shame that Trevorrow couldn’t work around Carrie’s passing. I liked the idea of the First Order pretty much blocking all communication, and using some device on Coruscant to send a message to the galaxy. Obviously they couldn’t do that message after Carrie passed, but I think it would’ve been a good opportunity for Poe to step up as leader. Imagine Leia sending a message to the galaxy was the plan, then she dies and the Resistance feels hopeless, but after some kind of optimistic conversation Poe decides to do what Leia would have done and send the message in her place. I think that would have been a fitting way to continue her legacy.

The entire climax could have taken place on Coruscant, with Poe leading a space battle above the planet, Finn leading the uprising on the surface, and Rey, Ben and the Knights of Ren facing off underneath the Jedi Temple.

DominicCobb said:

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of bringing Palpatine back in some way (though not this way). If the ST is all about legacy, and the OT heroes all find the strength and confidence in their proteges to move on knowing the galaxy is in good hands, wouldn’t it be interesting if the antagonist is an old villain who absolutely refuses to move on in any way?

I think a simple way to have gone about this would’ve been what Matt Smith’s rumored role was to be, to have the spirit of Palpatine possess a host body, rather than have his literal body still be around. To be fair, it almost seems like his spirit is attached to his dead corpse, the white eyes make me thing that’s the idea, but it still a stretch to think his body remained in tact enough to extract from the ruins of the Death Star.

Something I honestly liked from Trevorrow’s script was Hux collecting lightsabers and other Jedi/Sith relics. I could see how his rivalry with Kylo Ren makes him wish he had that power to oppose him. You could’ve tied both things together by having Palpatine’s spirit calling out to Hux (maybe from Vader’s helmet aboard the Finalizer), and offer Hux unlimited power in return for being his host. It just ties into their rivalry well and after how much Hux was thrown around in TLJ, I could see him selling his soul to try and overcome Ren. And between them and the final confrontation, we could see Hux’s body become more like Sidious’ as the dark side quickly corrupts him, essentially destroying his body, and then Palpatine could throw him away and jump into a more suitable host.

Last night I worked on a sample video that tests out reordering/trimming Padmé’s deleted scenes to give her a clearer involvement with the early Alliance. In the films it just builds up to the Petition of 2000 scene, which goes nowhere, but if you put that scene first, and then have the senators react to Palpatine ignoring their request to make no further constitutional amendments, I think it adds more importance to those scenes. Also, for both Anakin and Padmé it sows seeds of doubt in each other’s loyalty earlier on in the film and adds hints of doubt and deception in their following scenes together.

I think these changes could really fit well with having Padmé stand up to Anakin at the end of the film like in your test clip. I think the first two deleted scenes could actually be trimmed a little more, but this is the minimal of what needs to be trimmed to make the restructure work. I put title cards to show what scenes should go before and after them, based off the theatrical order of scenes. There’s also a little Easter egg in the last scene in the clip…

https://vimeo.com/386705732

Glad to see you back on this! I really like your rationalize for your changes with Anakin.

I think that is an interesting way to play the scene. So would end Padmé and Obi-Wan’s conversation early so we don’t know if Padmé agrees to take Obi-Wan to Anakin or not?

There are a lot of cool ideas here, and obviously it is just a rough concept of what you’re playing with, but the blocking ends up all over the place because of rearranging the dialogue so much. I think this can be remedied a lot with some more cutting, though.

Some thoughts on your specific changes:

I would try and have Anakin cut Padmé off and see if it helps with the flow.
Padmé: Obi-Wan told me terrible things. That you turned to the dark side, that you-
Anakin: Obi-Wan is trying to turn you against me.

I think you should cut Anakin saying “I want more”, and just have the last line, “Only my new powers can do that” should play over the shot of Padmé backing up. I think it benefits continuity as well as the lines not meshing well.

I think to make the moment work of Padmé saying, “Because of what you’ve done, what you plan to do”, someone would need to rotoscope Padmé and change the background to match where is now standing, since she isn’t in front of the ramp anymore. I also think something has to be done to make the score changing feel more natural, since you can still hear a piece of the music repeat in order to make Padme’s extra dialogue fit.

Also, the “You weren’t there!” line doesn’t really work I don’t think. Neither does “It’s too late.” But I do think “Please, face up to what you’ve done.” line from Obi could actually work. I wonder if the line could be pitch shifted at all to try and match Ewan’s voice more. Maybe have Anakin reply with, “If you’re not with me…”

I think the “Us?” line could actually be cut too. I don’t think Anakin haste say anything to read what is on his face. We a volcano erupt the moment he realizes Obi-Wan knows their secret, then Padme confirms it.

I hope you don’t mind me digging into this scene a little bit. I think the idea of Padme standing up against Anakin is pretty brilliant, so I want to think of what would be the best way to approach it.
This is still an early thought, but I’m not sure if Anakin’s dialogue being more focused on his drive to save Padmé, and Padmé admitting to Anakin that he brought Obi-Wan to potentially kill him, meshes well together. I think Padmé, being more politically focused, would be more willing to stop Anakin if he were directly threatening the Republic rather than stating his desire for ambiguous power.

But the way it is now, he mentions overthrowing the Emperor, but for the purpose of protecting them. Anakin is clearly more focused on getting power in order to save Padmé, and Anakin saying he wants more power comes off as pretty vague. I think Padmé would see that Anakin has gone too far, but would be more sympathetic if she felt his intentions were to save her. In that case her reaction in the film would seem a bit more understandable.

It just makes more sense that as soon as Anakin starts talking about taking over the galaxy and destroying the democracy Padme fought so hard for, that would be Padmé’s moment of realization that Anakin has to be stopped. The way the scene plays out in the theatrical film already goes this direction. At the beginning when Anakin is trying to reason with her that his actions are necessary in order to save her, Padme tries to bargain with him. But once Anakin has had a taste of the dark side, you see that deeper desires are coming to the surface. Maybe Anakin never had a desire to rule the galaxy, but maybe he thinks Padme would want that. Regardless, there is a clear escalation in the conversation from power over life to power over all life. When Padme realizes his ambitions are growing beyond just cheating death, that is when she realizes he has changed.

As she slowly backs away from Anakin once he starts talking about ruling the galaxy, you can see it in her face. She sees that Anakin really did help Palpatine overthrow the Jedi and turn the Republic into the Empire. And he wants to rule it. By stating this, Anakin has directly threatened democracy and the Republic. So for Padme, it becomes a choice between Anakin or the Republic, which is compelling because those are her two primary motivations throughout these films. But in the end, she stands by her convictions and chooses the Republic, and Anakin kills her for it. This would be a more fitting way to end her character, I think. Standing in the face of tyranny, even when it is the man you love.

But, if Anakin is still cognizant of what he’s doing, rationalizing his dark quest for power as a way to pay for Padme’s life, I think Padmé would see this and be more reluctant to kill him, thinking she can still talk him out of this. But I think this version feels more like this, which makes Padme admitting to bringing Obi-Wan to kill him feel rather drastic.

I’ve always felt that once Anakin starts feeding off the dark side by murdering the Jedi and the Seperatist leaders, it starts changing him. It’s like a drug, he gets a taste and wants more power. “This makes me feel so powerful. Why stop at saving Padmé? I can fix the galaxy…”
So all the changes you make leading up to this, and even during his “dark baptism”, make total sense. That is still Anakin. The more dark deeds he does, I feel like it is logical that he becomes more like Darth Vader. So by the time we get to this scene, we should see what the effect the dark side is having on him.

Sorry for going on this tangent, but I think this is a really cool idea and I would love to see it implemented, but I’m just trying to pick it apart and see if this is the most effective way to change the scene. Putting it briefly, my argument is that I think there are two routes this scene could take.

1. The conversation is more in-line with the theatrical, but ends with Padme standing up to Anakin.
2. The conversation sticks with your version, but Padme tries to reason with Anakin until the end.

I would love to hear your thoughts if you disagree, or if others do. This is just the way I’ve seen it, and having watched this film so many times might be biasing me.

I have some additional thoughts on how Padmé role could be improved throughout, and some little ways the film could tie in with The Clone Wars more, but I could share those later if you’re interested. I also think I know how the scene with Obi-Wan and Padme can be changed to fit this new direction for Padme’s character, but I can mention that later.

NeverarGreat said:

Creox said:

DominicCobb said:

My thought is it’s someone in the casino remotely. Sort of like Palpatine’s full size hologram having a walking platform in TPM.

That was my thought as well…or someone who cannot breath or live in the atmosphere…same thing either way. Strange thing to hang your thoughts on the entire movie on imo.

Sarcasm yet again fails to travel through the internet’s tubes.

I should’ve picked it up after Outbound’s comment. 😂

Yeah, that was my thought exactly. Which is kind of a cool idea.

DuracellEnergizer said:

RogueLeader said:

That’s a cool idea. Honestly you could’ve had something similar to what was already in the films. The First Order could’ve been your Imperial Remnant, fighting with the New Republic, then a Sith Cult out in the Unknown Regions introduces a new threat that brings the two factions together. Maybe they wanted to resurrect a Sith Lord and begin a new Sith Empire. Could’ve been Sidious, or Darth Bane, or a brand new guy.

I’d have made the First Order Luke’s Jedi Order after Kylo Ren fell to the dark side and booted Luke and his loyalists out — a dark side cult/terrorist faction hostile to both the New Republic and Imperial Remnant. They would’ve manipulated events to get the Republicans and Imperials embroiled in a new war, would would’ve destabilized both sides, leaving them vulnerable to the First Order’s true masters — alien invaders from the Unknown Regions.

I like this idea. Anakin destroyed the Sith, but now another faction has taken it’s place. I think this would’ve helped feed into Luke believing the Jedi fundamentally flawed and wanting something new to take its place.

Really the key would’ve been to have made the Knights of Ren bigger antagonists. They could’ve been separate from the Imperial remnant/First Order, but they could’ve used Ben Solo’s status as “Heir to the Empire” to incite attacks against the New Republic. Make the Empire great again and all that. Which would lead to war by the end of the first film.

Kylo Ren could’ve deposed the Supreme Leader (non-Force sensitive, just an Imperial Warlord) at the end of the second film, and declared himself the new Leader/Emperor.

Maybe in the third film, the Knights try to depose Kylo, and he ends up having to work with the good guys to stop their plans, but ends up going good and helping reunify the “Empire” and “Republic”.

Luke could’ve helped train the next generation of Jedi before sacrificing himself, including Rey, Finn, and maybe Poe. And then you could’ve had a few Jedi versus a few Knights of Ren as the climax. But the big thing would’ve been to add characterization to the other Knights and give them their own motivations, too.

I really don’t think the broad strokes would have needed to be much different (besides the last film).

That’s a cool idea. Honestly you could’ve had something similar to what was already in the films. The First Order could’ve been your Imperial Remnant, fighting with the New Republic, then a Sith Cult out in the Unknown Regions introduces a new threat that brings the two factions together. Maybe they wanted to resurrect a Sith Lord and begin a new Sith Empire. Could’ve been Sidious, or Darth Bane, or a brand new guy.

That is one major thing I wish would’ve been different. If they just had to bring back Palpatine, I wish the plot would’ve revolves around the cult trying to resurrect him and the good guys trying to stop that, rather than him physically existing out in the Unknown Regions all this time.

NeverarGreat said:

Hal 9000 said:

I’m almost afraid to type this, but…

I like the idea of just slipping into a contributor role for a TROS project with you at the helm. Partly because life is much more demanding than it was when I did TLJ:L, and partly because TROS is oil to faneditors’ water.

But we can’t both be merely contributors 😉

So here’s the plan. You be in charge of the first 1/3rd of the film, and then hand it over to me. I will then do an edit of the 2nd third using my own, perhaps differing goals. Then I will send it back to you for the final third, and then you can form a committee with several members of the forum of your choosing (though it must include Duracell in some capacity) and hash out a bold new direction for the final third of the edit under severe time constraints.

This will be the ultimate TROS edit, remaining poetically true to the spirit of the Sequel Trilogy and the Complete Saga.

This is both hilarious and depressingly accurate.

(though it must include Duracell in some capacity)

Icing on the cake.

Like the new profile pic, Hal. Fitting.