RogueLeader

I actually think it is better to leave it as “I made Snoke”, because it leaves it ambiguous as to whether he literally made Snoke, or figuratively trained him to become the Supreme Leader.

I haven’t tried Palpatine yet but I’m skeptical due to the nature of his voice. The way his voice is mixed is different than the other characters, and the throaty voice will be hard for an AI to replicate. But maybe it’d surprise me. Haven’t tried it.

I haven’t messed anymore with the Poe line. Did we wanna try to another delivery of dreadnought cannons? If an exact line reading is decided on I’d be down to mess it with some more.

If you mess with Jannah at all, JarJar, these were the changes I was considering for her if you’re looking for ideas:

Finn: I never knew there were more.
[Old Line] Jannah: Deserters? All of us here were stormtroopers.
[New Line V1] Jannah: All of us stormtroopers heard your story.
[New Line V2] Jannah: All of the stormtroopers here heard your story.

Jannah: We laid our weapons down.
Finn: All of you?
[Old Line] Jannah: The whole company.
[New Line] Jannah: Just like you.

Hal 9000 said:

“It was the last night of her training. Leia just freaked out for no reason and bailed on it, even though I was a good teacher. She just gave up. But she said that her saber would be picked up again someday by someone who was up to it.”

Lol, yeah the vague option is basically that.

I’m also going to say again I feel it is convenient she happened to have a vision that someone who use her saber in the future. Having Luke say something like, “but she said that one day, she would finish her journey”. Maybe at the time Leia felt she would return to the Jedi path once she finished her political career, not realizing it would be to train her own Jedi student in these circumstances.

Tobar said:

The diplomacy lines hit wrong for me. The Jedi can defend themselves and others sure but they’re not violent by nature. Before the rise of Palpatine the Jedi were negotiators/mediators that were sent out to settle disputes between different parties through non-violent diplomacy.

This new Luke line paints the Jedi as warriors first and that just doesn’t ring true.

True! The Jedi were also agents of diplomacy. So I wonder if it would be better to play up the angle of conflict of interest in being a member of the Jedi Order and the Galactic Senate? Just spitballing here.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

RogueLeader said:

Another option would be to leave it vague and allow people to come to their own conclusions.

“Leia had sensed the end of her Jedi path. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, she would finish her journey.”

But maybe that wouldn’t be a satisfying answer. You could also have the original on the “no AI lines” audio track, and the new explanation on the alternate one.

This is pretty much how it is in v3. But I’ve literally had a first time viewer tell me that this is really unsatisfying to hear, and I didn’t plant that in his head at all!

I agree, perhaps leave it as v3 in the alternate track, and use the new lines I made for the main track.

That’s what I was afraid of but it is good to hear that is actually the case from a viewer who is outside these conversations. I agree that the two tracks would be a good compromise.

This is definitely a good debate to have, and you can see why Terrio felt he had to make that decision.

On one hand, it gives a clear reason why she didn’t become a Jedi. It also plays into the whole “Palpatine pulling the strings” idea, and like he did with Luke, he may have planted this vision in Leia to prevent her from becoming a Jedi. That can also be a bad thing, though, if it feels like every plot line boils down to “It was Palpatine all along!” It also potentially takes away agency from Leia as a character if her hands were tied because of a vision she had. Though it may be a simpler explanation than one that hinted at Leia just not feeling it was the right path for her. It honeslty could be an interesting premise for a Leia novel: We could get the payoff from ROTJ by seeing Luke train Leia as his first student, but Leia wrestling with the moral dilemma of trying to be both a Jedi Knight and a Senator/politician in the nascent Republic. The Jedi Order and the Galactic Senate were separate entities in the Old Republic. Is it a conflict of interest for her to be both? What would the implications be if she eventually became both a Jedi Master and the Chancellor? Would that be too much power for one person? What would separate her from Palpatine, another Force-user who became leader of the Republic?

These are all interesting questions, and I personally feel like Leia making the choice to become a Jedi solely based on a vision she had takes away from all of those interesting ideas. BUT, how it parallels Anakin’s vision from ROTS is a fair point as well. If this were a novel, I could see it integrating both ideas, with the vision being the final straw for Leia. Maybe it wasn’t an explicit vision of her son’s death, but nebulous dreams of doom. Whether it be personal or on a galactic scale.

Another option would be to leave it vague and allow people to come to their own conclusions.

“Leia had sensed the end of her Jedi path. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, she would finish her journey.”

But maybe that wouldn’t be a satisfying answer. You could also have the original on the “no AI lines” audio track, and the new explanation on the alternate one.

If you wanted to make the new line match Leia’s facial expression in the flashback, you could have Luke say something like, “Leia realized it would be a conflict of interest to be a Jedi like our father, and a Senator like our mother.” I like the wording of DZ’s suggestion, but just a thought.

I think that was the original point of “it was the last night of her training” line. It implies Leia was basically at the same level Luke was in ROTJ. She had completed her training, and was a full Jedi in all but name.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Hal 9000 said:

To me, interjecting something about Leia for Rey to react to with “wow, she still trained me though” feels weird. Makes it seem very elementary of a problem, like Rey is shocked that Leia was aware that she was having a hard time with self-confidence.

It’s not really “self-confidence” though. It’s that she has a natural inclination toward the dark side of the Force. Which is displayed in TLJ when the dark side cave calls out to her. It is definitely shocking to hear that your mentor knew you had a propensity to fail terribly but they still decided to take you on because they recognized you were strong enough to push through it all.

Chris Terrio describes it like the following: “We were very moved by the idea that Leia would have known that from the very beginning, but since she still saw such hope, heart and spirit in Rey, she decided that she was going to take a chance…”

Could you cut out “Because you’re a Palpatine”, and have Luke say, “Leia saw it, too” referring to the vision? So, Leia also had a vision of Rey turning to the dark side, but Leia saw her spirit/heart and trained her anyway? Or, keep the Palpatine line, and have Luke say, “Leia saw the vision, too.”

I have to admit I feel a little guilty igniting a whole new voice AI fervor right after Hal announced retiring after these projects are done, but this all started because I have my own plans to eventually work on my own edits, or help with other projects, so I hope there is no pressure on Hal to consider any of these changes beyond what he wants, but we can still have these discussions here even if they are used for other projects or to create a resource of assets.

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

Regarding the Leia exposition, I have always felt it is kinda silly that Leia ended her training on the literal last night of her training. The exposition also feels weird in general that Leia sensed so much specific things, and then have Luke explain all of that to Rey. Basically we’re told she sensed/had a vision that 1) if she became a Jedi, her son would die, and 2) that someone would one day use her saber and “finish her journey”.

“You’ll take both sabers to Exegol” also feels like a very forced statement from a script standpoint. Even though we are often adding dialogue to clarify plot details for other scenes, I feel like in this case Luke’s dialogue would feel more natural if most of what he was saying was more general, which in effect feels more personal. But I have to admit I do like DZ’s version that mentions their mother! A nice callback that would help make this final film feel full circle. The wording of that version is very nice as well.

Dom, I may need to be PM you, but my ideas regarding tying up Finn’s arc are very similar to yours. I also have some ideas to expand on that theme of cycles repeating, which I may share on the Sequel Trilogy thread.

DominicCobb said:

That “family’s saber” line is excellent. I believe that’s the sentence I’ve wanted her to say since what like, Dec 2019? Hopefully it fits well.

Yes! Your idea has been in my mind all this time. I put it alongside the rest of her lines and it seems to fit well, at least to my ear.

Do you have a Finn by any chance? I’m dying for a Finn.

I have not made one yet but I’ve already planned to. Lmk if you have something particular in mind, because the type of sample you make depends on what you want him to say.

Regarding the Kylo clone stuff, you also have to keep in mind how we all felt back in 2019. A lot of people felt how Palpatine survived wasn’t really explained well. Just visually, I think some people even assumed he was in his old body, since he is still old and has missing fingers. Early leaks even suggested this may have been the case at one point, strangely enough. So seeing the Palpatine clones helps a lot. And I do think this one line conveys a lot of info. It double-confirms that he is a clone, but also that his spirit is inside the clone, and the clone is rotting away. Back when the movie released, I feel like audiences would’ve been less confused by his return with this clarification, plus it feels like a pretty natural line. I felt similarly about earlier versions of Kylo saying “clone”, but I feel like JarJar nailed with his most recent test.

And speaking of tests, I messed around with Poe’s lines a little bit more and came up with a different variation. The AI model was struggling with getting Poe to say “dreadnought cannons”, and the deliveries I managed to get still sound awkward to me. So, I did a version where he says, “and each ship has been upgraded with fleet-killing weapons”. Poe calls the dreadnought a “fleet-killer” due to its cannons in TLJ, and uses the phrase planet-killing in this film. That makes it feel more like something Poe would actually say, and that term gives the audience a clear indication of their power-level. These aren’t planet-killing weapons, but they can destroy any planetary fleet that opposes them.

I personally like the first version the best. But you also could trim here and there or mix and match depending on which phrasing you prefer.
Version 1: They have an enormous stockpile of Star Destroyers from the Old Empire, and each ship has been upgraded with fleet-killing weapons.
Version 2 and 3: An enormous stockpile of Star Destroyers from the Old Empire. Each ship upgraded with fleet-killing weapons.
I also put them alongside Poe’s dialogue from that scene just to get a sense of how it blends with rest as of now.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wnW_tIWTN2Xq3mU4Bo-29oWtdL6iXYKp/view?usp=drivesdk

AspiringCreator said:

The Kylo line here is definitely far more in line with his tone and audio from the movie. That final delivery in fact almost sounds like it was directly pulled from one of the movies.

Wish I could take credit for it but the last delivery is from the movie! I just isolated the audio and threw it in at the end for comparison.

The two lines about family are beautiful and also very well done, especially Rey’s where I legit can’t tell it’s an AI. Also the “You are family.” line and the idea of it going where the “A Jedi needs her weapon.” line sits is perfect. I liked what the original was trying to go for but I love how this plays with the elements of the scene and movie more. It’s a perfect response to Rey treating herself as an outsider, it makes Leia’s later line of not being afraid of who she is feel just the slightest bit more impactful and in a way, it adds a new layer to her declaring she’s a Skywalker.

You said my exact feelings! I also was surprised by how good the Rey line sounds.

Lightspeed clipping is an interesting bit of phrasing and I like the idea of it being like clipping in a video game. That being said, I do think the ramming line also worked with the lip=sync issues being fairly minor and plus, I kind of like that it in some way highlights that there’s a reason why you can’t do this stuff all the time without just dumping on TLJ’s Holdo maneuver. However honestly both lines still work well.

I added two more versions to the link. The first is “light speed slipped”. I think this one sounds ambiguous enough that it could refer to the same thing the Holdo maneuver is, or it could be some different technique. It is the most seamless change from “skipped”, plus, light speed slipping sounds like an actual term that would have its own Wookiepedia article and everything.

The second one is “light speed whipped”. Kind of conjures that hot rod vibe that could imply using hyperspace to pull crazy maneuvers. The mouth synch isn’t 100%, but personally I think it is funny to hear Rey yell, “You can’t lightspeed whip the Falcon!” I feel like it fits the humor of the entire scene the best, but “slip” might for totally unnoticed to most people, which I think is the goal.

I use moises.ai
It is subscription based but there are a lot of similar programs out there.

Speaking of which, I actually had a go at the Kylo lines and added them to that same google drive link (as well as a video clip for the light speed clip test).

The Kylo lines are a good example of what I was talking about regarding the tone. The way Kylo’s lines are delivered on Exegol are different than the rest of the film, so I ended up using some of his lines from the Force bonds in TLJ rather than sourcing anything else from TROS. I felt it sounded closer to what we were looking for.

But give the Kylo lines a go because you might could get it to sound better than my samples. I also think some more effects could be added to them to give it that little extra deepness and punch the original lines have.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I’m not sure what method you are using for the Poe lines but they sound pretty incredible.

Here is my method for anyone else who is cranking these out:

1. I go straight to the movies for actor lines. I pull dialogue from the center channel.
2. I specifically pull dialogue that matches the tone I want for the new dialogue. For the Poe line, for example, I used his dialogue from that scene, plus later on in the film when he gives his speech to the Resistance.
3. I try to get at least 30 seconds of sample dialogue. It might not seem like a lot, but I think quality or tone of the sample is more important than the quantity. In the case of Rey, I actually made two different clones for two different types of line delivery.
4. I run the sample through a vocal isolation software to get it as clean as possible for Eleven Labs.
5. I don’t really have sweet spot for Eleven’s settings. Just play with it until you get something that sounds right.

Also, where would Leia’s “you are family” go exactly? It’s clever to replace “brother’s saber” with “family’s saber” but as I recall there isn’t a place to put Leia’s response to that in the scene. I think it would be best to place it where “A Jedi needs her weapon” currently sits.

Yes, that is where I was thinking as well.

EddieDean said:

‘Blast’ has a similar mouth shape to ‘slipped’.

Whipped and ripped were two other options I considered, but didn’t test.

I’ve been wanting to experiment with some techniques for voice cloning, so I played around with some new versions of the lines under discussion. I haven’t watched V3 so I can’t recall how they compare to the current ones, but I tried to get it to match as close as possible to the surrounding dialogue.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15GjpiX28aV-o9IX9cEWnyjWi008w7dFQ

This link includes Leia’s lines and some alternatives, Poe’s monologue, and some experimenting with alternatives for light speed ramming. Since “ramming” doesn’t totally line up with Rey’s mouth movements, I played around with words that rhymed more with slipped. I tried out clipped and slipped. I was thinking, instead of describing what Poe did as just smashing into the ice wall, maybe he clipped through the wall, sort of like how you can clip through video game walls with glitches. So basically, a ship can use hyperspace to clip through objects in real space. I think slipping gives off a similar idea, like slipping through objects in real space. But if your timing isn’t perfect it can damage both your ship and whatever object your passing through. I didn’t replace the full “You can’t light speed skip the Falcon”, just the word, so that is why I have a few different versions. So my tests of that line definitely are not final.

Also, I don’t know if Poe says, “He’s been hiding something for years” in this version, but I honestly think it would be fine to stay as “building something”. The stockpile line makes it clear these are old ships, but his followers are still “building” onto them with the new cannons.

Which one is that? The $22/mo subscription? Or one of the pricier subscriptions?

Jar Jar Bricks said:

For Leia’s saber line, my thinking was that “Rey, never be afraid of who you are” speaks only to the idea that there is an inner darkness in her that she should have the courage to face. Whereas with the added line, it gains a second meaning in that Leia is telling her that she’s a Jedi and she should never doubt that about herself. Which ties in with her modified one-liner to Palpatine: “I am a Jedi”. She’s repeating what Leia directly told her.

That does make sense. I always felt it would’ve been nice to have had Rey say earlier, “I will earn your family’s saber. One day.” And then, at this point, Leia could say, “You are family.” It’d be a sweet way to set up Rey taking the Skywalker name at the end of the film.

Are you still using Carrie’s audiobooks as a source for the AI clone?

Is it just the voice that is bothering people, or is it the way the voices are mixed in?

This conjures sad feelings but I’m happy to hear it too! You’ve more than accomplished the goals you set out for these projects. I totally relate to those feelings of wanting to move on, so I think it’s smart for your mental health to retire these projects for yourself, and let new editors build off them in the future if they want.

I’m enjoying it for what it is, but if I want to talk about gripes, I have a lot of similar thoughts as Vladius.

One issue that is bothering me a lot is how these shows are deciding to explore the New Republic. I feel like they are bending over backwards to make the New Republic seem incompetent with very little nuance. It feels like the writers don’t really know how to write politics, or putting such little effort to it that the New Republic plot feels very two-dimensional.

On the surface, it makes zero sense why the New Republic wouldn’t grant Hera’s request to allow her to follow a lead. They act like Hera has nothing to back up her claims, but a New Republic ship has just recently been attacked, a prisoner escaped and several officers killed. That would warrant a follow-up. I guess it just feels forced to me.

I’m not really wanting to argue about if this was the right direction narrative wise for the New Republic, I’m just trying to think from a writer’s perspective. If I had to write this story, make it so the New Republic can’t intervene, how would I write it?
For one, they could’ve made a point about how the dark Jedi released several prisoners when they also released Morgan Elsbeth, causing extra chaos the Republic is having to clean up, and adding deniability to whether or not Elsbeth herself was the primary target for this rescue mission.

I do think it was a nice touch to bring up Hera’s personal interest in the search, but I felt the Senators could’ve made a better excuse than, “We just don’t want to investigate.” It could been something like, “Our forces are spread so thin and we currently have several pressing situations we have to resolve first before we can green light an investigation into this.” Then Ahsoka could go ahead with the mission because she knows this is a pressing matter.

Also, I find it funny how we’ve already had three stories about New Republic ships being attacked, officers killed, and only one of them was followed up on by the Republic (and neither of them were the high ranking Imperial escapees).

EDIT: Someone else online mentioned that the now-cancelled Rangers of the New Republic may have helped show the positive side of the Republic more than what we’re getting now.

Random thought, but this time period would be really funny setting for a tabletop rpg. Could make the story go whichever way you want.

Dom, were you working on a “Rey killed her parents” version or just focusing on the dark visions? In the past I’ve always leaned more toward the latter, but I’ve started to feel lately that the former might be more effective.

Was there any scenes in particular that we initially felt could be improved upon for a later edit? I know the duel in Kylo’s chambers was discussed for a potential update, but I can’t really recall what was said about it.

I saw that video as well recently. It’s a cool idea, but I don’t think it is feasible for a fan edit.

I think the closest you could get to an arc of Rey falling to the dark side would be to not have Rey go to Luke’s island after she almost kills Kylo. Instead, you could have it to where Rey thinks her fate is sealed, and goes to Palpatine because she thinks she has nowhere else to turn. You would need to cut any shots of Rey flying the X-Wing, and probably most of her dialogue when she encounters Palpatine. Instead, he just tells her that this is where she belongs, and that the power will be hers if she strikes him down and becomes one with him. And just as she is about to, she senses Ben.
You would also have an issue with Leia’s saber, and wonder where it came from. You could have it where she actually got it from Leia earlier in the film, or perhaps the saber is on Exegol. Maybe on Palpatine’s person. And when she passes the Skywalker saber to Ben, she takes that saber. Having Rey kill Palpatine with both a red and blue lightsaber could be cool symbolism if an edit were playing on themes of balance, or a new era of force users.

Hal 9000 said:

When the little alien girl greets Rey on Pasaana in TROS, she asks her for a dollar.

“Oh… I don’t have one.” Smiles firmly but awkwardly

Hal 9000 said:

When the civilian fleet arrives in TROS, use a shot from Rogue One to depict a previously unknown Death Star arrive along with them.

Starting to sound like Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Ridiculousness.

I don’t remember if it was someone here or on YouTube, but someone achieved this exact idea before, so it is definitely doable without voice Ai or anything.

EDIT: I did find a version of this idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GvpT_7BMAc

If you wanted to have him say “Grandson”, I wonder if you could take him saying “Grand Inquisitor” from the Kenobi series, and him saying “Son” from the end of Empire Strikes Back when he is calling out to Luke.

You could also amalgamate the existing “Find me…” line, but use Vader saying “me…” (maybe taken from “join me…”), so it is a mix between Palpatine and Vader’s voice.

You could do something similar with the line “Fulfill your destiny” and let it be a combo of Palpatine (and/or Snoke) and Vader’s voices, since they all say some variation of that line. “Fulfill/it is your destiny.” Or just let Vader’s line play out as-is when he gets to the Wayfinder.

Even using JEJ’s performance as Vader from the movies doesn’t give you the energy and annunciation Vader has when he speaks. When it comes to Vader you are better off reusing lines from the movies or hiring a voice actor.

I’ve honestly thought about contacting him and getting his rate. I kind of want to see if he would record some lines for a different project, but we also could get him to record that line for Rogue One, maybe “Your mother once thought as you do” for ROTJ, potential deleted scenes (?), etc.

I think voice AI struggles to replicate Morrison’s New Zealand accent. With how fast the tech is progressing I feel like it will eventually get there but right now it struggles with any accent that isn’t just a standard American or British accent.