RogueLeader

[DOUBLE POST]

Thanks for making these samples! I think for the sake of the scene, I would also re-do the “What could you give me” just so the whole thing fits as good as possible. And I think the reading of the “phantom” line just sounds more like Adam. Also, there is a sort of alliteration/rhyme with phantom and failed clone that makes the sentence flow nicely. This would be a great resource to have for other edits even if we don’t add it to Ascendant.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

“You’re just a ghost, in a rotting shell”. I like that, and I thought about sharing it but I was trying to avoid referencing the anime Ghost in the Shell.

That’s exactly why I used that phrase! At least you have more restraint than I do.

JarJar, how do you give “direction” to ElevenLabs to have different iterations of the voices display more/varied emotion?

“You’re just a phantom, in a failed clone.”
“You’re just a ghost, in a rotting shell.”
I feel like some variation of that has a nice ring to it but gets the idea across. He is a failed experiment, clinging to a life that has long passed.

I liked the idea of what Sasquatch said, if his last words were just “Rey” or something wouldn’t feel too on the nose. And I think the moment when they sense each other, right before she passes the saber to him, works better with no dialogue.

The shield gate shenanigans was something I played around with addressing in an edit way back when it came out. Could you go into a little more detail on what changes you made to address that?

This is a good note!

Rogue One is something I want to revisit after this last season of Andor comes out, especially if they nail the landing. I hadn’t really thought about Rogue One much since voice AI and vocal isolation software has become more available, so it will be cool to look back at this film with these new tools and see what can be done. Anyway, it might be worth waiting to update this edit after Andor is complete in case there are other issues that need to be addressed.

Looking back at the scene you mentioned, I think you could trim around that line without it being super noticeable, and Chirrut’s line about carrying his prison wherever he goes can work just as a continuation of his thought.
Honestly, his mouth barely moves when Cassian says, “This is a first for me”, so I wonder if you could just mute the line and it not be super noticeable? Or it could just look like he is saying something under his breath. You could potentially use VFX to make his mouth not move though.

Alternatively, you could alter the line so he actually says, “This isn’t the first for me.” You could probably frankenbyte the line with existing dialogue or use voice AI to replace it.

At the very least it is something that can easily be dropped into other people’s edits.

Thinking about how the “I have something to tell you” plot is really never resolved or addressed beyond Finn having a feeling is honestly embarrassing. Embarrassing that it was something left in a blockbuster film.

This is pretty cool! Love all of the little details you’ve included, like the halation. It would be interesting to see a video comparing the original grade with your current version. Or maybe something like comparing your current grade ROTS with some similar shots from the OT, to show how you’re trying to bring ROTS closer to that look.

What software are you working with?

What version of the film are you watching?

Feel free to share more thoughts as you watch through it! Would love to hear them.

Just skimmed through Retribution and thought the AI voices worked well! Don’t know if it would have been noticeable for someone who didn’t know. Did you apply any kind of EQ effect to give it the radio/comm voice effect? Couldn’t really tell. But since Dooku’s voice is being distorted by the hologram anyway, it kinda sells any artifacts of the voice processing as “signal interference”. I feel like this episode is a great of the whole concept of this project. Combine two episodes to make them better, and using the power of editing to create thematic parallels that didn’t even exist before. Pretty cool stuff.

Barfolomew said:

Channel72 said:
There is a very strange, almost serendipitous scene in Empire Strikes Back that has always fascinated me. It happens after the scene where Chewie flips out and starts attacking Storm Troopers just before Han is about to be lowered into the carbon-freezing pit. Han intervenes and tries to calm Chewie down before things get out of control. While this is happening, Boba Fett aims his blaster at Chewie, but then Vader stops him from firing by pushing down the barrel of his blaster. Then - there’s this weird shot of Leia just staring at Vader for a few seconds. This is followed by a shot of Vader, seemingly staring back at her (although we can’t tell for sure because of his mask). Leia then walks over to Chewie and starts trying to calm him down. It’s the strangest thing, as if Leia and Vader instinctually exchanged some non-verbal agreement to prevent the situation from escalating further.

This moment had always intrigued me, too, especially since it’s underscored with a very ominous instance of the Imperial March that gives the impression This Means Something. I think I’ve more or less put it together thanks to the transcript of Irvin Kershner blocking that scene out from Alan Arnold’s Once Upon a Galaxy: A Journal of the Making of The Empire Strikes Back. (Excerpt: https://phantastiqa.com/unscripted-how-the-famous-i-love-you-i-know-scene-really-came-together/)

From that we can see: (a) Kershner wanted to make it clear the reason Chewie and Leia are brought there in the first place is so Han will “behave” and (b) Kershner and Fisher had great difficulty figuring out what Leia should be doing exactly before they take Han in to be frozen (at one point Fisher suggests she slaps Lando - and then she actually does it!).

I think Leia’s glare at Vader is meant to handle both those things. She’s realizing that Darth Vader knew Han wouldn’t cause trouble while she (she especially) and Chewie are there and that’s why they’ve been brought there in the first place.

I think it gets even cooler if you read into it further (and the scene makes it very easy to do so): Leia realizes Darth Vader knows Han Solo loves her. Like, he can sense it with the force and shit. And it confirms for her that Han isn’t just attracted to her or just “really really like” her, he’s seriously, genuinely, deeply in love with her. And I think here is where she goes from “attracted/ really really like” Han to being in seriously capital-L love with him herself, and admits it to him. And his “I know” response doesn’t bother her, because she also knows he loves her, too.

Love this take. And how you read into further makes it even more interesting as well. I love idea that Vader, who is both her arch enemy and her father, indirectly makes her realize how much Han truly loves her. Arguably the turmoil Vader puts them through is what brings them closer together. I do like that added layer, especially if you put it into the context of the prequels. Anakin lost his love because of his actions, but his actions as Vader helps his daughter find love, even though it is completely unintentional.

I don’t know if the novelization goes into Leia’s head during this scene, but I’d love a new novelization that added these kind of character point-of-views that added even more depth to these scenes we know by heart.

Agreed. Also, even though I feel like Vladius has disagreed with my opinions from time to time, I really appreciate his perspective a lot (ame many other people here) and I feel like it kind of grounds me in some ways. I gain a new point of view often in those kinds of conversations.

Honestly, my takes are always in flux, but maybe that’s why.

Hey man, just wanted to say I was so impressed with your work on that ROTJ deleted scenes and I appreciate you sharing your work here! I honestly feel like it is good enough to use in an edit, especially if you slightly muffled some of the weaker spots with the sandstorm sfx.

For the “Vader Widens the Search”, I feel like someone could hire that Ryan Golden voice actor that Star Wars Story used for the Rogue One Vader scene.

Man, this is great work! The topic is so focused that changing sources doesn’t break the flow at all. I’d love to sit down and watch all of this with my dad and bask in the Phantom Menace nostalgia!

I like that, Nev. Keeps it close to the pacing of the original line, but uses a key word that I think is important: upgraded. They’re old Star Destroyers that we’re spirited away after the war, but they have slowly been modified over the years/decades.

I think an audience would assume “superlaser” refers to Death Star-level firepower.

I honestly kind of liked the idea of connecting the laser cannons to the dreadnought we saw in TLJ, but I did feel like “dreadnought-tier” was a bit of a mouthful. You could just call them “dreadnought cannons”. It separates it from Death Star levels of destruction, but keeps the description simple while still connecting it with pre-established technology.

So, you could do something like DZ’s suggestion, but like this:

”Their fleet’s dreadnought cannons leave us massively outgunned”

Hal 9000 said:

But if someone sent me “I’m Jar Jar and I’m pooping my pants,” I’d still include it to maintain including something from everyone even if I’d bury it in the mix.

Jar Jar Bricks, get on that^^^

szopman said:

Maybe some cool little voice-cameos of Din Djarin or Boba Fett? 😉

Could have a voice AI of Temuera saying, “This is Mandalore, standing by.” He became Mandalore in Legends, didn’t he?

I actually never recorded a line back when you asked for them. Any lines you would like to hear? I feel like I could literally say “Rogue Leader, standing by” and it could still work. 😂

Not sure if Rogue Squadron would still exist at this point though.

Interesting discussion on the Sith cult stuff. I have always liked the idea of “the powers that be” and the rich and powerful of the galaxy being held responsible for perpetuating the war. The Last Jedi sort of touches on that idea, and you do get a sense of that with a lot of corporations like the Trade Federation, the Banking Clan, etc. being involved in Palpatine’s conspiracy. Obviously Palpatine is the personification of evil and greed, but I like the idea of Palpatine being supported by a group of powerful individuals who benefit from the corruption. The original Star Wars novelization kind of suggests that idea as well, although Palpatine wasn’t described as an evil sorcerer at the time.

This might not be appropriate for the Hal series of edits, but it would be interesting if the prequels were reframed to show that the Trade Federation and the Kaminoans were actually in kahoots together with Palpatine to profit from the war, and the Separatist faction itself actually had noble goals.

In the OT, Palpatine’s creepy advisors could be somehow tied into this concept. And then, the hooded figures in TROS could be tied with that as well. Basically, the Sith cult would be tied to the concept of a secret society of the rich and powerful, like the Bohemian Grove. Perhaps this group could have a phrase or motto they could use, and we can hear it being said by the Nemoidians/Kaminoans when speaking with Sidious, the Emperor’s advisors in ROTJ, some of the rich people on Canto Bight, and the Sith cultists on Exegol.

EDIT: Maybe something like, “Long live the Sith”. Something that gives Hail Hydra vibes. Imagine hearing that phrase throughout the Saga, and then in TROS, you literally have a group called the Sith Eternal whose goal is to make the Sith live forever.

G&G-Fan said:

What else would you do with your edit?

There’s 3 major changes with several minor edits that could be added to enhance the change, but they are not completely necessary for the idea to work.

1. Vader hires Boba to capture Luke
   1a. Using ESB footage, create a newly constructed scene after the opening where Vader calls up Boba on his meditation chamber screen. Dialogue would be something like-

Vader: Skywalker will come for his friend, Captain Solo. I want him alive, bounty hunter.

Boba: As you wish.

That is the simplest version. Would be achieved by reusing existing dialogue, voice AI, or hiring voice actors. I would like to make 2 versions, one Boba voice that sounds like Morrison, and the other sounding like Wingreen’s original performance.

I would probably use existing footage of Boba for the shot of him on the view screen, but it would be cool if I could get into contact with someone who has a Boba costume to create new footage. But a part of me would want to just use existing footage rather than film new material. Not sure though.

1b. Again, using footage from ESB, show Boba in the Slave 1 cockpit, then a shot of his ship flying off screen. Will be altered to look distinct from the ESB shots.

1c. This would then transition to the wide establishing shot of R2 and 3PO walking to Jabba’s palace, but would add the Slave 1 flying in the distance and arriving at Jabba’s. The intention here is to have a physical object that ties one scene/location to the next, similar to the escape pod or the probe droid in the first 2 films.

1d. After Luke falls into the Rancor pit, Boba says to Jabba, “He’s no good to me dead” (or a variation of that line) and Jabba replies “The Jedi’s mine!”
There is a specific wide shot I have in mind for this moment, but it would be nice to create a new shot if possible. There’s a black and white two shot of Jabba and Boba that I would love to use, but I doubt colorization could totally match the rest of the scene. It’s possible, though. I actually think there may be a two shot of them in the scene already that I could potentially use as well.

Also worth noting that this is the one addition you could add to the film to establish that Boba is trying to capture Luke. And it would be a rather simple addition, just a reused line and maybe a new Jabba subtitle. From this you can deduce why Boba is there, who he is capturing him for, and why he doesn’t just blast Luke away from a distance during the sail barge assault. The rest is really superfluous, but overall adds more intrigue to the plot, characterization for Boba and Vader, and cohesiveness to the overall plot of the film.

2. Have Boba be the one that “catches” Leia trying to rescue Han.

2a. Add the sound of Boba spurs off screen right before Han says, “What’s that?”

2b. When Leia looks up, cut to a new shot of Boba slowly raising his gun at Han and Leia.
This would require a new background plate that Nev has already made, and the shot of Boba would be a reversed shot of Boba lowering his blaster after the thermal detonator situation is resolved. Boba doesn’t have to say anything here, but you could have him say something like, “Going somewhere, Solo?” or “Not so fast, Princess.”

2c. When Jabba and the rest of his minions are revealed behind the curtain, give Jabba a new line that is something along the lines of, “Well done, bounty hunter!” or “You were right, bounty hunter!”

Again, this isn’t a necessary change at all, but it would add to Boba’s characterization.

3. Enhance Boba’s “cool factor” during the sail barge assault.

So none of this necessary either, but obviously the way Boba goes out has been a common complaint with ROTJ, so some of these ideas would kind of push toward this concept that Boba is trying to capture Luke by any means necessary rather than simply kill him.

3a. Before Luke cuts Boba’s blaster, we see/hear the beginning of a stun shot start emanating from the barrel. This dissipates in a flash of light and fizzle sound after Luke slices the blaster.

3b. Add yellow energy effect to Boba’s lasso/rope. Again, cooler/more intimidating, but also feels like a better tool to capture a Jedi that carries a weapon that could just cut through a rope. This effect would be similar to what we see Sabine use in Rebels when Kanan and Fenn Rau teach her how to use the dark saber.

3c. Have Luke manage to deflect the turret shot that knocks down Boba and damages his jet pack.
This simply requires you to add a new blaster shot, but this allows you display Luke’s skill, rather than have him rely on the turret gunner being a terrible shot.
(This might be what is already happening in the scene, but it is hard to tell)

3d. Add sparks coming from Boba’s jet pack after he falls to the ground.

3e. Han says, “Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Where?” a little sooner, and we hear Chewie growl a reply.
This is supposed to imply Han hitting him is more intentional rather than accidental.

3f. Boba shoots Luke’s hand rather than a random henchman.
Again, this makes it so Boba doesn’t miss an easy shot. In fact, he makes a difficult shot meant to disable Luke rather than kill him. He just didn’t realize Luke had a robotic hand.

3g. Potentially cut shot of Luke’s bad kick and Boba flailing through the air in the background.
This is not only makes Boba a little goofy, but I think it might be better to not show Luke going back to business immediately after getting shot, but I’m not sure about this one.

3h. Remove/replace Boba’s scream.

3i. Replace the Sarlacc burp with muffled blaster shots.

3j. I’ve also considered making it so Boba’s shot actually causes Luke’s saber to malfunction during the rest of the battle. So potentially making the blade shake/quiver, and add sparks occasionally emerging from the hilt. This could add some tension to the rest of the battle where Luke is just fighting goons, but it also would be a way to potentially reuse the deleted scene of Luke building his lightsaber. In this version, Luke would repair his saber in a cave on Dagobah before leaving the planet. Meant to just be a brief ominous moment after Luke talks to Obi-Wan about having to potentially kill his father, and how Luke’s insight about Leia could be used to serve the Emperor. Again, not necessary at all. Just an idea though.

But I think that’s the gist of it.

G&G-Fan said:

What else would you do with your edit?

There’s 3 major changes with several minor edits that could be added to enhance the change, but they are not completely necessary for the idea to work.

1. Vader hires Boba to capture Luke
   1a. Using ESB footage, create a newly constructed scene after the opening where Vader calls up Boba on his meditation chamber screen. Dialogue would be something like-

Vader: Skywalker will come for his friend, Captain Solo. I want him alive, bounty hunter.

Boba: As you wish.

That is the simplest version. Would be achieved by reusing existing dialogue, voice AI, or hiring voice actors. I would like to make 2 versions, one Boba voice that sounds like Morrison, and the other sounding like Wingreen’s original performance.

1b. Again, using footage from ESB, show Boba in the Slave 1 cockpit, then a shot of his ship flying off screen. Will be altered to look distinct from the ESB shots.

1c. This would then transition to the wide establishing shot of R2 and 3PO walking to Jabba’s palace, but would add the Slave

Yes, I would love that Nev!

And G&G-Fan, the cool thing about this Boba idea is that there are a lot of little ideas I wanted to sprinkle throughout Act 1, but it is very modular, so other editors can pick and choose which things they’d want to take or leave for their own edits. They all would work on their own, but also will work great together. I’ll definitely share all of the assets once I get to that point.

Hal 9000 said:

RogueLeader said:

the only film I’d like to make a fan edit of at this point is this one.

Haha, we’ll see what June has in store for us!

And if I did, could I use your Semi-Specialized edition as a basis?

I’m glad you liked that idea, Ice! I was hoping to have a ROTJ edit with this idea implemented by this month for the 40th anniversary of its release, but life has gotten in the way unfortunately. I’ve sort of lost interest in personally editing any of the other movies or shows (still like chiming in ideas though!), but really the only film I’d like to make a fan edit of at this point is this one.

The cool thing about the Boba working for Vader idea is that it can implemented very heavily, or very lightly, depending on how conservative you wanted the edit to be. So you could have this scene between Vader and Boba, which makes their motivations clear and creates a better segue between the Vader opening and the Tatooine first act, but you also could just give Boba one line in the palace. When Luke falls into the pit, you can have Boba say to Jabba, “He’s no good to me dead” or with voice AI “Vader wants him alive”, and then Jabba could reply “The Jedi’s mine!” Or something like that. But if Jabba, in his greed, ignores Boba request, it would add more reason as to why Boba just lets shit hit the fan on the sail barge. Anyway, there’s a lot of little things you could do to beef up Boba’s role in the first act which I think enhances what’s already in the film pretty nicely.

The other two big changes I would like to do would be to make the second Death Star feel more inevitable rather than repetitive, and of course improve the Ewok plot. But with new tech like voice AI and what not, it adds a lot of potential for a future ROTJ edit. Like Omni mentioned, you finally could get a solid version of the “Your mother once thought as you do” line. I remember how much of a struggle we had trying to make that work back in 2018. The AStarWarsStory YouTube channel also used voice AI to replace the dialogue for the deleted sandstorm scene, which would be cool to see in an edit.

Again, there is a lot of potential, but I do struggle with trying to find a balance between a conservative approach and a radical edit. Like, where is the line for a classic film like Return of the Jedi? Sometimes I feel like if you were to make really radical changes, you should just go all in and make a “Revenge of the Jedi” edit that tries to progressively make the trilogy more mature by going with a darker tone for this film, rather than the happily ever after ending we got. Not trying to “improve” the film, but just making an alternate version. Otherwise, you should just add to the film rather than heavily restructure or cut from the it (Again, with the one exception being some parts of the Ewok plot imo). Still trim from here and there, but maybe add to the film more than take away. Not saying this is how it should be done, just my philosophy.