Interesting! I wasn’t expecting that. I can understand that, although I think it would be challenging to remove that from the film. But I guess we can discuss what is feasible and infeasible once you have your analysis written up!
I kinda what save the other one for other people to guess, but I’m curious. Is the other 50/50 split regarding “Rey Skywalker”?
It would make Kylo’s line in TLJ about wanting both the Sith and the Jedi to die make more sense if Kylo was somewhat aware of Snoke’s affiliation to the Sith Cult.
You could even describe Kylo’s quest early on as him hunting down the remainder of the Sith Cult to eliminate any threat to his power. That would more clearly depict the people he is slaughtering are the beginning of the film as Sith followers.
If you went with the crystal illusion idea, how would Palpatine sucking out Rey and Ben’s life force be factored into it?
You know, it is kind of surprising that they went into this trilogy knowing the main character would be female, but they didn’t seem to even consider hiring a female writer. I mean, clearly there were female cooks in the kitchen early on, like Kennedy and Hart. And I’m not saying men can’t write women characters, but I feel like Rey might’ve lacked something that a female writer really could’ve provided for her.
Hahaha! Yeah, maybe Snoke was the leader of the Sith Cult or something.
“Happy.”
— D-O
Interesting. Yeah, I definitely think Palpatine as an illusion would need to be hinted at once or twice in the film. So when he is revealed as an illusion the audience would go, “Ahhh, it makes sense now.”
Y’all clearly still haven’t considered the benefits of Sheev as a giant Sith Crystal.
- Invention of the Sheev illusion by the cultists serves as a dark counterpoint to Luke’s illusion on Crait
- Requires only knowledge and defense to see through the illusion
- Can be destroyed by Rey’s lightning
- Removes Sheev as a living entity
- Can include Rey Palpatine as part of the illusion
- Better explains the destruction of the Sith arena
- Can organically set up Force sucking ability through the Cultists powering the crystal
but of course the biggest benefit is:
- Giant crystal = cool
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I’m not 100% against this honestly but how would illustrate this in the film without leaving the audience scratching their heads?
But maybe it isn’t the wrong direction. If Rey’s journey is about her being afraid of herself and her powers, then I think the logical resolution to the story is for her to accept herself and her powers.
Maybe this isn’t the right direction to go in, but I think it is worth thinking about at least.
Ben Solo lives or dies?
EDIT: Or the kiss, maybe? Hahaha.
Is it really a big change to the mythos? It seemed like this was the direction the stuff with Luke in TLJ was going in. In ROTJ, Luke uses both the dark side to defeat Vader, but also the light to spare him. Vader becomes a Jedi in his final moments because he saves his son BY killing Palpatine.
I mean, in a perfect world the ending would’ve been quite different from what we got, but it would be hard to change the fact that Rey kills Palpatine here. And she doesn’t do it because she hates Palpatine, but because she loves her friends.
Maybe we can make it less obviously that Rey is blowing lightning back in his face, but if we do that then what lesson is Rey learning?
At least with this idea, it actually ties the climax of the film into the internal conflict Rey has been having this entire movie. Maybe you don’t have Leia’s line right as Palpatine blows up, but during the “voices of the Jedi” montage.
I dunno. I just feel like the final battle feels so hollow because it isn’t trying to say anything. This might actually give people something to think about. And all this would require would be to recolor some lightning and maybe change some of the Jedi lines.
You know, I actually think using her lightning would actually be a good resolution to the story.
I mean, throughout the movie she is absolutely afraid of her inner dark side. So much so that she tries to exile herself to Ahch-To. She isn’t afraid of Palpatine, she’s afraid of herself and what she is capable of. I actually could see it being satisfying to realize she doesn’t have to afraid of herself if she acknowledges the dark side within her.
If you think about it, that has always been the flaw of the Jedi. They’ve taught their students that their emotions are dangerous, and their dark side is something to be feared. Ben Solo thinks that because the dark side is in his nature, that he is a monster and can’t go back to his mother.
The Sith, on the other hand, totally let their negative emotions control them. They’re consumed with hate, greed, and selfishness. They’ve let their Shadow-self take over.
But a balanced person has to find a healthy relationship with their emotions, between their self and their shadow-self. Someone who bottles up their emotions, like the Jedi did, are much more likely to let their shadow-self consume them, like Anakin or Ben, because they didn’t cultivate a healthy relationship with their repressed shadow. So this has given the Jedi the mistaken idea that the dark side will corrupt instantaneously.
Someone described integrating your shadow as “having weapons and the ability to use them, but being determined to keep them sheathed”. Being totally harmless isn’t a balanced way to live. Instead, it is having the ability to defend yourself when necessary, and choosing not to harm others even when you have the power to do so.
I’m actually beginning to think not having Rey actively destroy Palpatine is actually the wrong path. Rey, Luke, and other Jedi killed plenty of people in self defense. Why is it suddenly bad for Rey to kill literally the embodiment of evil?
And I think that would make Rey’s yellow lightsaber work well. Rey has the power to protect others, but she has control of it (represented by it being contained by the hilt).
To me, finding an answer to this question of “balance” has to be the inevitable climax to this trilogy, which I think is necessary to justify its existence within the saga. I think this approach would help set it apart from the rest of the films, and actually carry some thematic weight.
And just as the conscious mind can put the questions, “Why is there this frightful conflict between good and evil?,” so the unconscious can reply, “Look closer! Each needs the other. The best, just because it is the best, holds the seed of evil, and there is nothing so bad but good can come of it. (Jung 133).”
Well, people already feel like Rey basically killed Palpatine, not that Palpatine killed himself while Rey is defending herself. Rey is clearly pushing the lightning back in his face.
And maybe “integrating the shadow” can be interpreted as “your dark side doesn’t define you”. You have to learn how to control it, not let it control you.
EDIT: just spitballing btw
Well my mind does think of Hal (and others’) had about Rey’s lightning being yellow to help differentiate her use of it from Palpatine. And how the lightning she’s deflecting back at Palpatine could turn yellow, showing that she can embrace her anger without letting it control her. Basically, accepting her shadow-self without being afraid of it. And then that can help tie her yellow lightsaber to her newfound self-awareness.
True. JJ and Terrio speak on the idea on balance being something that must constantly be maintained, rather than being a permanent state, but it doesn’t really address what balance means. What does balance mean to me? Or to kids who are watching this?
I’ve said this before, I think it would be interesting if she heard Jedi say things like, “Love is essential to a Jedi’s life.” or “Fear/Anger is a natural part of life.”
Basically, telling Rey not to deny her emotions. That love, fear, or anger are not inherently bad, if you have a healthy relationship with your emotions.
I’m not really sure what her destroying Palpatine could be a metaphor for, though. Haha.
I think Rey not being alone at the end helps, either with family (like the Falcon stuff snooker’s been working on), with Ben Solo, or with both.
Maybe the Jedi voices she hears in the end could tell her things beyond “rise Rey”. Like actual advice.
The stuff with the yellow lightning might help imply her assimilating with her inner shadow. Hmm.
Didn’t know what you were saying at first, then the memory hit me like a freight train.
Something I can’t get out of my head is Closer Look’s video about Rey’s character arc in the movie.
Basically, his idea was that Rey should’ve failed to save to Chewie, and protect her friends, but then when she taps into the dark side she has enough power to protect them, and this is what the chances of her falling to the dark side more likely.
In his mind, he felt that Rey thinking she killed Chewie by using the dark side would make her afraid of using the dark side at all. Why would she turn if that is the message she is getting from it? She should’ve seen how the dark side is the quick and easy path, like Yoda described. That using the dark side gives her what she wants, at a cost…
I think that is why I was playing around with the idea of Rey having a vision that she would fail and her friends would die in the final battle. Let her believe she won’t be powerful enough to save her friends unless she taps into the dark side, sort of how Anakin thought only the dark side would allow him to be strong enough to save Padmé.
I really want justice for Rey’s character arc. Maybe it already is fine as-is, but I feel like it is missing something, like a Jungian solution to the conflict between the Ego and Shadow, and the synthesis of the anima and animus. She needs to personify the answer to the flaws of the old Jedi, and I don’t know if at this point she really does that.
Holy shit Eddie that is awesome and horrifying at the same time. (You’re a fun storyteller by the way! I could vividly imagine that uncomfortable situation.)
I actually do like the mention of Kylo wanting to end the cycle of war.
I agree with your overall mindset about the crawl, too. Sometimes when I write crawls, I try to map out the cause and effect in order for the paragraphs to flow well together. It also helps makes the stakes clearer.
This isn’t written as a crawl, but this is kind of an outline I think could work well.
Paragraph 1: Because the legend of Skywalker has sparked hope across the galaxy, the First Order resources are spreading thin from quelling countless rebellions.
Paragraph 2: Because the First Order is vulnerable, the Resistance races to unite these scattered freedom fighters in order to turn the tide of the war to their favor.
Paragraph 3: Because Kylo Ren is desperate for a solution to this problem, he chases whispers of a lost Imperial fleet that can help him end the cycle of war once and for all.
It’s similar to the crawl you posted recently (I actually looked back at it after I wrote this because I forgot exactly what it said). The difference with Paragraph 1 is that explicitly mentions the effect of the events of the Last Jedi directly inspired these rebellions. It also makes the state of the First Order clearer: Their resources are being exhausted from quelling uprisings.
Because of this, Leia wants to seize this opportunity to tilt the scales by uniting these disparate factions together.
Because the Resistance is growing, Kylo is looking to counter their growing numbers with a brand new (old) fleet. I like the phrase “chasing whispers” because it could refer to literal rumors, or whispers in his head.
What I like about making these opposite goals clear is that I think it better sets up the final battle between a fleet of united worlds versus a fleet of old imperial warships. It makes the final battle feel inevitable, in a way.
EDIT: Sorry if I’m being redundant! If you feel like I’m going in the right direction I could try writing an actual crawl based off your most recent one.
Ah, good idea. Maybe we could just reuse the rendition that will be cut if we remove the initial Chewbacca surviving reveal.
I would just make it Jedha rather than a new Sith world (we already have one with Exegol). I like the idea of them heading toward Jedha, expecting a wasteland, but then see people living, thriving, actually being happy, in the aftermath of the end of the world. Maybe they’re just pilgrims, not living there necessarily. But it ties into this film’s theme of healing wounds.
Also, they say they’re going to the Forbidden Valley on Pasana, so it would make since that a Forbidden Valley on Jedha might have some ties with the Sith. Also, if Ochi is a Jedi Hunter, it makes sense to go to a Jedi world to find something important.
Look on Dom’s thread, I think he already figured something out.
I think if you could take happy/sad out, I would. It’s just incredibly lazy. It’s just as bad as having a human character literally saying they’re happy and sad. They have this incredible puppet that they could emote their emotions in an interesting way. It’s just a crutch.
I think the rest of his dialogue is fine, like “No thank you.” At least that’s has some semblance of subtext.
I may have been the only one that had this thought, but when Ahsoka and Rex were contemplating what to when all the troops were standing down in the hangar, I thought things were going to go in a lot different direction.
For a brief moment, I thought they would have the droids deactivate the hangar shields and suck all the clones out into space.
That would’ve been super dark, and probably out of character, but I thought Ahsoka was going to give herself up because she wasn’t willing to kill her clones. Rex, having to choose between Ahsoka’s life or his brothers‘, chooses Ahsoka and orders the droids to deactivate the hangar shields. Ahsoka tries to protest but it’s too late.