RogueLeader

Audience: Please, D-O, tell me how I should feel about the ending?

D-O: “Happy”

Audience: WOOOO THIS WAS AMAZING I LOVE YOU JJ ABRAMS!

@snooker, I definitely think having Chewie, Finn, Poe and BB-8 there at the end is enough to feel like she’s has her newfound family there with her. It would be interesting if we could hear C-3PO, R2, and maybe Rose chattering in the background, even if we can’t see them. It would be great if we could find good shots to use of them, but hearing them in the background could be nice too. On the other hand, it could make the ending too crowded or busy, noise-wise.

EDIT: Also wanted to mention that I REALLY appreciate the title of that video clip.

It was really fun overall! My thoughts will probably be very sporadic so bear with me. Also, my memory off all the plot points is a little foggy since I read it sporadically as you posted, so I definitely have forgotten things. Also, I definitely missed things too, like I totally missed that BB-8 “died” at first.

You definitely came up with ideas I never really considered, like Maz leading a gang of pirates, the medieval-style planet, Hux fencing with a lightsaber and actually being good, everyone using the Force at the end. I think that works as nice counter to Thrawn basically wanting to destroy it.

I will say one thing I wasn’t expecting was your depiction of the Knights of Ren. I imagined them as entirely different characters than the one’s we glimpsed in TFA. In TFA they seem dark, rugged, and dangerous. Whereas the Knights in Shattered Sword feel like the valiant Knights of the Round Table. I do think the hellscape idea would be interesting.

One thing I liked was that every character had a moment, even background characters like Connix or the Resistance Doctor.

I think one thing I would do differently if I were rewriting Episode IX, would be to have a lot of conflict and tension between Kylo and the Resistance crew from the beginning, and have that relationship grow until they’re friends by the final act. I feel like after Kylo makes Finn the commander of the army towards the beginning of the story, a lot of that potential conflict within the group goes away.

I also think the moment where Rey and Ben contemplate suicide in the dead ship is pretty dark for a Star Wars movie, but I guess we almost got Hux committing seppuku onscreen too. 🤷‍♂️

As far what I would like to see happen, you actually hit a lot of the beats I would like to see. I, like many people, like the idea of the final battle taking place on Coruscant. We also get redeemed Ben, Poe as a leader, Finn with other stormtroopers.

Of course there are some things I would do differently. I have certain scenes in my head that I would like to see play out. I definitely think figuring out the climax is a hard thing to do, and I think that is part of the struggle for me. How do create a satisfying antagonist when you make the most compelling villain a good guy in the first or second act?

I think you do a pretty good job of it in a unique way. I think I followed it pretty well for the most part. I typically get lost in action scenes, but I think I kept up with what was going on for the most part! I do think your second draft ideas are interesting, although I’m skeptical about Kylo being in carbon freeze and seeing how that would play out.

I do think Rey and Ben need to be close together whenever the climatic moment happens. I think it felt weird to me, that Ben was having this dramatic moment but Rey wasn’t really there with him, even though they are the two main characters. I don’t know if that makes sense.

A part of me is tempted to write out my own rewrite, but seeing how much you wrote, the prospect is slightly intimidating. 😂

I know many people have written crawls that describe Kylo Ren on a quest to discover the origin of his former master’s power, and I was trying to think of a way that could tie Snoke, Palpatine, Vader and Mustafar together.

Right now, I’m playing around with this idea of starting the movie with Kylo touching Vader’s helmet to sort of lead him the right way to the wayfinder on the planet surface. So he touches the helmet, then he would hear the voices of either Snoke and/or Vader, and get quick flashes of Vader’s castle, the Sith wayfinder, and the Exegol temple/the fleet. The idea being that this is Palpatine speaking through Vader’s helmet, trying to lead him the way to Exegol. I also would fit the “Find me” line somewhere in here. I’m still not exactly sure what to fit in the vision but maybe others would have some ideas about this. But I think it should set up Kylo’s “want” in the film, whatever that is.

But, I thought it would be interesting to have a shot of Snoke on Mustafar, standing in front of the Sith Wayfinder (either to use it to find Exegol, or to place it there as part of Palpatine’s plans). But I was thinking it could be a quick shot of something like this.

Regarding the Skywalker Saber, we talked about adding some kind of effect to it to make it feel slightly different, though we never really pinned down an effect that just clicked with anyone.

A feeling…

It’s funny, the What the Force podcast did an episode on the score, and they specifically mentioned the idea of having Rose’s theme during Finn’s talk with Jannah. They said they’re glad they didn’t do that because it would just be liking pouring salt in the wound, which I get, but without footage I think it is the only way to give her anymore sense of presence or impact in this film.

What a great idea! Now only if Rose could be there. 😭

Haven’t finished it yet. Any thoughts to how his thoughts could be applied to a fan edit?

Eh, it’s all good, Hal. You’ve already contributed a lot to fan editing community, and a lot of us have just given our own thoughts, so I think with this being the last film in the Skywalker saga, it’s a good time for us to contribute. You’re essentially acting as a moderator to our ideas, helping to steer the work in the right direction. We all have so many ideas, and even though they’ll be plenty of other edits, like krausfadr’s and Don’s (and much more I’m sure), it’s nice to have a concentrated effort to help motivate and execute ideas.

I definitely think it would be fun to do some kind of stream or commentary for this!

The music works really well, Dom!

I think Rey killing her parents is still better than Rey Palpatine, but if I could make a version without some new revelation about her past, I would prefer it.

I don’t think you need a whole scene, just enough shots for a disjointed vision. Rey on the throne, lightning shooting up from the sky toward the fleet, a shot of Poe in his cockpit, then Snap’s X-wing crashing, an implied death for Finn, etc.

I’ll try to play around with the idea and see how doable it is.

I actually think the dark vision idea would just require some dialogue changes from Kylo and some clever quick shots in the vision.

You definitely can share it! It’s not that exciting of a change honestly. It’s the same shots, minus the flailing tentacles.

I think the Rey killing her parents angle is good if you wanted to cut less in general, but I wonder if you could make the reveal focused on a vision of the future, rather than a glimpse of the past.

Maybe Rey and Kylo have a shared vision early on that is just in fragments. Kylo starts goading her into seeing the rest of the vision, and the big hangar reveal is Kylo outright stating what the vision was.

The Resistance will fail, and Rey joins Palpatine. Maybe they even see Rey will be the one to kill her friends (with Force lightning). That probably would be “shocking” to her. But Kylo Ren presents her an alternative: join me and we can keep that from happening. We can save your friends.

I think this would also work well as motivation for Rey to want to kill Palpatine, a reason for her to possibly join Kylo, and a reason why she sees self-exile as a better alternative than facing Palpatine. Plus, it keeps Rey’s focus on her newfound family, which is at the heart of the story, rather than digging up her past again.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the Rey killing her parents angle too. It actually makes me think of the DotF script, which had Kylo be the one to kill her parents, but I could totally imagine how easy that change could’ve been made to have Rey be the one to do it.

Even with the killing parents change we’d still have to cut a lot of the parent stuff out. This idea would just go slightly further and not dwell on Rey’s past at all. I think the idea of Rey being haunted by her potential futures ties in well with Rey trying to forge her own identity after the reveal in TLJ. Because, if you think about it, if Rey killed her parents, Kylo should’ve really revealed it in TLJ. God, imagine Rey’s reaction then. She probably would’ve joined him. So another parental reveal just feels sort of redundant. At this point I think it could be better to focus on her future, rather than her past.

The change to “he” to “I” is seamless, well done. Not a critique of your version, but I would like to see a version of that scene without her saying she’ll find and destroy Palpatine, since I think it would work better if Finn’s reply was solely a response to the fact that she killed her parents.

Agreed. Maybe you could at the very least change the engine glow color of Ochi’s ship. And sure, you could change the ship to a different model in TFA, that also might allow you to make a “destroyed by lightning” shot more easily. But it would be nice to find a solution that didn’t require you to change TFA, because people might just want to watch Ascendant, or pair it with different fan edits.

Jonh, wtf… how are you doing that hair. Crazy.

Regarding the Falcon, the U-Wing jumped away in-atmosphere in Rogue One.

I think one thing holding me back from the Rey killing her parents idea is the ship issue. The left on the same ship Ochi did. I mean, I guess you could say they’re the same model but different ship, but I think visually they have to be distinct from one another.

That is what I am doing right now actually!

Superb. Honestly, I think this look goods enough to put in a final edit. I still want to see a version of the movie where Ben Solo lives, but beyond that exception, I think this is my favorite version of the ending so far.

Basically, this ending is a reflection for both Rey, and the audience, on this journey and where the story began. By burying the lightsabers, Rey is shutting the book on this Saga, if you will. And her leaving Tatooine on the Falcon is a visible promise that adventures in this galaxy will continue, but those adventures are moving on from the Skywalker Saga. I also think it is a better way to end it for Rey, because it makes it abundantly clear that this was just a quick stop before she goes on her next adventure, and returns to her newfound family.

Thanks! I might not need it but I’ll play around with it tonight.

Do you think you could share those same shots, but the 4k83 or despecialized versions of them?

I think the best thing to keep in mind is people’s level of knowledge and attitude regarding the Jedi and the Force is probably very different relative to an individual’s age, social class, home world, etc. in the Star Wars galaxy.

Some people might not like the Empire, and be old enough to remember the legendary stories of the Jedi, so they could still hold reverence for them, like Lor San Tekka. Others might be young and brainwashed by the Empire and think the Jedi are dangerous and evil, like Del Meeko from Inferno Squad.

I think generally, after the initial time around the Jedi Purge and labeling them as traitors once the Jedi were almost completely wiped out, the Empire began a massive campaign to censor history and wipe the Jedi and the Force from the collective conscious of the galaxy. For example, in novel Lost Stars, recruits in Imperial Academy were educated that the Clone Wars were sparked by extremists interfering in a legal execution, not even mentioning the term “Jedi”. It seems some Imperials learned that Jedi were potential dangerous targets, but they likely didn’t know the context of their existence beyond them being religious extremists.

Like I said, the knowledge of common Galactic citizens was extremely varied, but I think for people who grew up in the Empire, like Luke, were likely not educated about the Jedi or the Force at all, unless family or friends shared stories about them. So Obi-Wan probably wasn’t worried about telling Luke he was a Jedi, because the Empire didn’t want to even teach the youth about the “traitorous” Jedi. They wanted to erase them from history.

Specifically for Luke, it is possible Obi-Wan knew he didn’t like the Empire, or he knew it is unlikely Owen and Beru would want to teach Luke about the Jedi at all, in fear of Luke’s curiosity leading him down a path they didn’t want. Also, clearly Obi-Wan wanted Luke to learn the ways of the Force, and would probably be willing to take the risk of revealing his identity as a Jedi in order to re-educate him, if it was a risk at all.

In regards to Tarkin knowing who Vader is, the canon novel Tarkin makes it pretty clear that he knows Vader is Anakin Skywalker. I believe he deduced that since he knew Anakin during the Clone Wars and could compare the two individuals enough to recognize them as one in the same. I imagine at some point, Vader realized Tarkin knew, and afterwards wasn’t concerned with trying to hide it from him. But I believe was one of the few people who knew this fact.

This is just my understanding, but I hope this was helpful!

This reminds me of a theory I read about people having that Darth Vader might have been a clone of Anakin Skywalker, so Darth Vader was technically his father, biologically speaking. I like the idea of taking inspiration from another Kurosawa film.