Eddie, since you poured so much time into this, were there certain things you would like to discuss based off the analysis. Honestly we could talk about the Finn/Poe ideas on the main TROS thread.
Yeah snooker, you had some pretty good plans to set up their feelings for each other throughout. It’s too bad there’s no way to get a kiss in there at the end.
Wow, I’m impressed by all the work you put into this!
Btw, I was the one person who felt personally attacked, you bastard~
Also, I might tackle what to do with Finn’s plot, since it seems most people have no idea what to do about it.
From what I understand, most people believed Force ghost Anakin was just wearing Tatooine robes because he also was from Tatooine, not because it is a Jedi outfit.
^Good idea!
I actually don’t think reshooting is necessary.
I’m sorry to hear this, Holly! I hope you are gonna stick around the forums at least.
-Colton
Yeah. I really do love the friends on the Falcon and the Falcon flying away into the sunset ideas, but I also think there would be a lot of people, even beyond this site, that would appreciate a Ben Lives version of the movie.
Great write up, Omni! I actually think we’re on similar pages.
I think we both agree that a true Jedi must acknowledge the dark side that exists in them, and they shouldn’t let the dark side control them. But in my opinion, we never really get a moment where Rey acknowledges her dark side.
What I’m suggesting is that Rey can have a moment in the film where she does what is referred to in Jungian psychology as “shadow work”. Sure, shadow work in real life isn’t about shooting lightning from your fingertips, but Star Wars is all about the metaphor. But it’s like you said, one must confront and understand their own dark side, but Rey never does that.
The thing is, we know that Rey is afraid of, more than anything, herself. Not Palpatine. Herself. So, how is her overcoming Palpatine satisfying in any way, shape or form? What is the ultimate boon that Rey earns by the end of this film that she can bring back to the ordinary world? Rey’s arc over the course of the trilogy has been to forge her own identity and learning to accept herself for who she is. If Rey learned to accept this final aspect of herself, it might actually be something the entire movie seemed to be setting up.
Perhaps it is the wrong move for Rey to use the lightning to defeat Palpatine. At the very least I like the idea to make Rey’s lightning she uses on Pasana yellow. Not only to separate her use of it from Palpatine, but choosing to make her lightsaber the same color as her lightning might be enough to show that Rey has come to acknowledge that dark side in her. I hope that makes some sense.
Also, thanks Ash and Idir for your thoughts! Again, I enjoy your input Omni. These are my favorite kind of conversations.
I mean, I think it is relevant to the discussion if it helps determine the merits of certain editing choices.
If you view embracing the dark side as being evil, sure. If the dark side is meant to represent the authentic human emotions that we often repress, like fear or anger, then I disagree. It’s the denial and repression of these emotions within us that leads to people becoming evil. If people were to acknowledge their inner dark side and have a healthy relationship with it, then that is perhaps what balance means.
Throughout IX, Rey’s relationship with her powers and inner dark side is reflective of how the Jedi view emotions throughout the saga. Yoda and Obi-Wan warn our protagonists about the dangers of fear and anger, and how they will lead you down the path of the dark side. Even love and attachment is a danger to them, and their only form of compassion is rather non-personal. But if we’ve learned anything from this story, it’s that these views on emotions are wrong. Anakin fell to the dark side not because the Jedi were right to be afraid. He fell because he didn’t develop a healthy relationship with his emotions. He lacked any emotional support after he left his mother, and sought that out with Padmé, which he had to keep secret from the Jedi, because they deemed any form of emotional vulnerability as dangerous.
This is something that was unfortunately repeated with Ben. Like Leia said, “I should have never sent him away. That’s when we lost him.”
Throughout the Saga, Luke is arguably at his best when he doesn’t listen to his masters. It was compassion and love, as well as fear and anger, that allowed him to save his father.
In Rey’s case, I think you can draw a comparison to how women are often viewed as emotional, and how it can be a weakness. Rey views her emotions as her weakness, and thinks it is dangerous enough for her to live out her days in isolation, like Luke tried to do. What if the message of this story that our emotions can actually be our strength? That it is okay to be afraid, or to be angry, and that those emotions don’t make us bad people?
If these movies are, at their most pure form, meant to be for kids, maybe that is the healthy kind of lesson a story like Star Wars would want to teach them. That you shouldn’t view your anger or fear as gateways to evil that must be suppressed. Instead, you can learn to “master the mad you feel”.
If you’re adamant on viewing the Force simply as a fictional magic system which has rules that cannot be broken, fine. But maybe we should consider viewing the Force symbolic of something personal within us, that doesn’t boil down to “one side good, one side bad”.
Even if the way I’m suggesting it be done may not be the right way to do it, I do feel like this question of balance was the inevitable problem that needed to be addressed in this film. Right now, I don’t think the theatrical film gives such an answer, and without an answer I’m afraid this movie will still be totally void of any kind of saga-concluding message, regardless of how much you try and polish it.
I get that, but if you remove Palpatine’s lightning storm, then you also have to remove Rey’s “be with me” moment. You’d just have to cut a lot out to get rid of it.
Maybe it uses their force energy to conjure all that damn lightning.
Interesting! I wasn’t expecting that. I can understand that, although I think it would be challenging to remove that from the film. But I guess we can discuss what is feasible and infeasible once you have your analysis written up!
I kinda what save the other one for other people to guess, but I’m curious. Is the other 50/50 split regarding “Rey Skywalker”?
It would make Kylo’s line in TLJ about wanting both the Sith and the Jedi to die make more sense if Kylo was somewhat aware of Snoke’s affiliation to the Sith Cult.
You could even describe Kylo’s quest early on as him hunting down the remainder of the Sith Cult to eliminate any threat to his power. That would more clearly depict the people he is slaughtering are the beginning of the film as Sith followers.
If you went with the crystal illusion idea, how would Palpatine sucking out Rey and Ben’s life force be factored into it?
You know, it is kind of surprising that they went into this trilogy knowing the main character would be female, but they didn’t seem to even consider hiring a female writer. I mean, clearly there were female cooks in the kitchen early on, like Kennedy and Hart. And I’m not saying men can’t write women characters, but I feel like Rey might’ve lacked something that a female writer really could’ve provided for her.
Hahaha! Yeah, maybe Snoke was the leader of the Sith Cult or something.
“Happy.”
— D-O
Interesting. Yeah, I definitely think Palpatine as an illusion would need to be hinted at once or twice in the film. So when he is revealed as an illusion the audience would go, “Ahhh, it makes sense now.”
Y’all clearly still haven’t considered the benefits of Sheev as a giant Sith Crystal.
- Invention of the Sheev illusion by the cultists serves as a dark counterpoint to Luke’s illusion on Crait
- Requires only knowledge and defense to see through the illusion
- Can be destroyed by Rey’s lightning
- Removes Sheev as a living entity
- Can include Rey Palpatine as part of the illusion
- Better explains the destruction of the Sith arena
- Can organically set up Force sucking ability through the Cultists powering the crystal
but of course the biggest benefit is:
- Giant crystal = cool
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I’m not 100% against this honestly but how would illustrate this in the film without leaving the audience scratching their heads?
But maybe it isn’t the wrong direction. If Rey’s journey is about her being afraid of herself and her powers, then I think the logical resolution to the story is for her to accept herself and her powers.
Maybe this isn’t the right direction to go in, but I think it is worth thinking about at least.
Ben Solo lives or dies?
EDIT: Or the kiss, maybe? Hahaha.
Is it really a big change to the mythos? It seemed like this was the direction the stuff with Luke in TLJ was going in. In ROTJ, Luke uses both the dark side to defeat Vader, but also the light to spare him. Vader becomes a Jedi in his final moments because he saves his son BY killing Palpatine.
I mean, in a perfect world the ending would’ve been quite different from what we got, but it would be hard to change the fact that Rey kills Palpatine here. And she doesn’t do it because she hates Palpatine, but because she loves her friends.
Maybe we can make it less obviously that Rey is blowing lightning back in his face, but if we do that then what lesson is Rey learning?
At least with this idea, it actually ties the climax of the film into the internal conflict Rey has been having this entire movie. Maybe you don’t have Leia’s line right as Palpatine blows up, but during the “voices of the Jedi” montage.
I dunno. I just feel like the final battle feels so hollow because it isn’t trying to say anything. This might actually give people something to think about. And all this would require would be to recolor some lightning and maybe change some of the Jedi lines.
You know, I actually think using her lightning would actually be a good resolution to the story.
I mean, throughout the movie she is absolutely afraid of her inner dark side. So much so that she tries to exile herself to Ahch-To. She isn’t afraid of Palpatine, she’s afraid of herself and what she is capable of. I actually could see it being satisfying to realize she doesn’t have to afraid of herself if she acknowledges the dark side within her.
If you think about it, that has always been the flaw of the Jedi. They’ve taught their students that their emotions are dangerous, and their dark side is something to be feared. Ben Solo thinks that because the dark side is in his nature, that he is a monster and can’t go back to his mother.
The Sith, on the other hand, totally let their negative emotions control them. They’re consumed with hate, greed, and selfishness. They’ve let their Shadow-self take over.
But a balanced person has to find a healthy relationship with their emotions, between their self and their shadow-self. Someone who bottles up their emotions, like the Jedi did, are much more likely to let their shadow-self consume them, like Anakin or Ben, because they didn’t cultivate a healthy relationship with their repressed shadow. So this has given the Jedi the mistaken idea that the dark side will corrupt instantaneously.
Someone described integrating your shadow as “having weapons and the ability to use them, but being determined to keep them sheathed”. Being totally harmless isn’t a balanced way to live. Instead, it is having the ability to defend yourself when necessary, and choosing not to harm others even when you have the power to do so.
I’m actually beginning to think not having Rey actively destroy Palpatine is actually the wrong path. Rey, Luke, and other Jedi killed plenty of people in self defense. Why is it suddenly bad for Rey to kill literally the embodiment of evil?
And I think that would make Rey’s yellow lightsaber work well. Rey has the power to protect others, but she has control of it (represented by it being contained by the hilt).
To me, finding an answer to this question of “balance” has to be the inevitable climax to this trilogy, which I think is necessary to justify its existence within the saga. I think this approach would help set it apart from the rest of the films, and actually carry some thematic weight.
And just as the conscious mind can put the questions, “Why is there this frightful conflict between good and evil?,” so the unconscious can reply, “Look closer! Each needs the other. The best, just because it is the best, holds the seed of evil, and there is nothing so bad but good can come of it. (Jung 133).”
Well, people already feel like Rey basically killed Palpatine, not that Palpatine killed himself while Rey is defending herself. Rey is clearly pushing the lightning back in his face.
And maybe “integrating the shadow” can be interpreted as “your dark side doesn’t define you”. You have to learn how to control it, not let it control you.
EDIT: just spitballing btw