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RogueLeader

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11-Jun-2015
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25-Apr-2019
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Post
#1272509
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Yeah, honestly, I think you’re overanalyzing the lightsaber thing a little. Rey stole it?

Luke rejected it. Luke didn’t want it, and he obviously didn’t care that Rey had it or he would have said something. Rey even offered it back to Luke again before she left.

Honestly, I think the whole movie Rey doesn’t even think it is hers. She doesn’t think she is the hero, she is merely the custodian of this Excalibur until she finds the real hero. At first she thinks it is Luke, he rejects it twice (for a multitude of reasons). Rey even thinks Ben might be the hero later in the film, and I think she brings the lightsaber with her in hopes that he will be the one to take up the mantle. She even tosses the lightsaber to him during the battle. It isn’t until she realizes that Ben hasn’t turned back to the light does she start to accept that maybe she might need to be the hero. And clearly when Luke says he won’t be the last Jedi, referring to Rey, I think that is him being cool with Rey having the lightsaber anyway.

And sure, if you go by bloodline, Ben might have some claim to it, but I think the movie has demonstrated that bloodline isn’t the end all be all. Rey catches the lightsaber at the end of TFA because she is “pure of heart” with “noble intent”, which is what the Force really cares about. Ben doesn’t have that.

This is my own personal opinion, but I think the only reason Rey is on this journey is because she demonstrated that she is empathetic person that wants to help others, which she shows us early on in the film when she helps BB-8. I think that made her worthy in the Force’s eyes.

Post
#1272490
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I like a lot of Lin-Manuel’s music, from what I’ve heard anyway, but this song feels off to me, in the specific way that parts of JJ’s Star Wars aesthetic feels off. It’s difficult to describe exactly, but basically it’s a look and sound which is blunt, rounded off, obvious, in-your-face, etc. In contrast, the aesthetic of the OT was quite alien, with a lot of striking sounds and objects which nevertheless resisted obvious interpretation. This is one area in which The Last Jedi fares much better. But anyway, the song feels like a good fit for JJ’s aesthetic, but that’s why I have issues with it. I hope that made some sense.

I know you mentioned using the other track Miranda wrote for the movie (“Dobra Doompa”) instead of “Jabba Flow”, but after listening to it again I do think it might fit that vibe you are going for. Maybe put it in there and give it a try, and this way you are still using Star Wars music, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdAD9VZta3o

Post
#1272478
Topic
A simple ANH and RotJ idea
Time

Yeah, I had the same thought. I think my first ever post on OT.com was basically this idea. The main difference to A New Hope, like Nev said, is just to have the Death Star blow up into large chunks rather than it just disappearing in one big explosion. Luke stills blows up the Death Star, but you’re basically just changing the way the Death Star blows up a little. It’s still a big explosion either way.

And regardless of the level of destruction the Death Star takes, the Rebels will still flee Yavin when the Imperial fleet eventually shows up. And yeah, after they leave, they probably could just haul the usable remains to a secret location (Endor). So I don’t think that is an issue.

You could do a few extra things to help with this idea as well. In the ESB opening crawl, you can change the word “destroyed” to “devastated” regarding the Death Star. The first scene with Darth Vader, when he is looking out the window of the Executor, we could see the damaged Death Star being repaired, maybe a little smaller than the ROTJ Death Star.

Then in ROTJ, you would just want to change the opening call to refer to this Death Star as being “reconstructed”. During the rebel briefing, you also might need to alter some dialogue to get that idea across.

I think there are cool ideas about making it the same, single Death Star, but if you think about it, if a ship or vehicle is damaged enough, then it is basically totaled. You can scrap it for parts, but you’re most likely better replacing your car or whatever with a brand new one, rather than making the severely damaged one work. But this is Star Wars, so story comes before science.

Post
#1272433
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

That’s what it is starting to seem like. I believe the title for TFA dropped not long after production wrapped. Production for IX wrapped last month. It is possible they could announce it this month, but I’m starting to think they will wait until Celebration. Some people think that it will be before, because they think there will probably be Episode IX merch with the title on it, which would make it harder to keep under wraps.

I think there are good arguments for both, but we will definitely get it by April 12th or 13th. If that’s the case, it will probably be revealed with the trailer, and it’ll also be attached to Endgame, which will be coming out later that month, on April 26th.

If it drops before then, it’ll be a surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

Post
#1272348
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Well, you just convinced me why ‘old man’ Anakin should be there at the end of the film.

Thanks for sharing that personal story with us. I think us finding these kind of things that help us relate Star Wars to our own lives and families is really what the movies are all about. That being your reason for liking it is one of the most appropriate reasons you could have, in my opinion. I’ll always see that moment differently from now on.

Post
#1272346
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

Interesting. The little crossroads you put on the two star absorbing shots feels odd, so you think the flow was better with it?
Or was there not one and am I just crazy? Haha.

I think that does work for sure, maybe if the color of Kylo’s shot was a little more orange to match the sun’s plasma more. Personally, I always kind of saw Starkiller as Hux’s thing whole Kylo was always more focused on finding Luke, so I liked how these two objectives were kind of separated by their own goals/interests, but I think that edit does work.

I had to watch it three times before I realized you took the Death Star out! Pretty cool. You kind can still see the green outline of where it was removed, though. I would suggest trimming the shot as well to kind of make it all quicker. It just feels weird sitting there for a beat without anyone saying anything. Maybe Poe could still say, “This is Starkiller Base”. Even if that didn’t feel right, I think trimming that shot a little could help.

Post
#1272339
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Agreed. I think Kylo Ren, aka Ben Solo, is just as central to the story as Rey is, or how Luke or Anakin were in their own trilogies. Even if his last name is Solo, he is the grandson of Anakin Skywalker. And like you said, Leia is just as much of a Skywalker as Luke is, and she will still be around in Episode IX (so will Luke apparently).

I understand why you don’t like how it is officially being called the Skywalker Saga, but honestly it is the perfect name for it. Lucasfilm has to consider the continued longevity of the Star Wars brand, so the saga they are about to wrap up can’t just be called “The Star Wars Saga”. We may get new movie series that will be even bigger than the Sequel Trilogy has been. Who knows? Really, all current and future movies will be a part of this never ending tapestry of the Star Wars Saga. Episodes 1-9, though, deal specifically with the Skywalker family, so calling it that is fairly reasonable. The Star Wars brand name has to remain pretty open, because eventually it will be tied to other stories and characters beyond the Skywalkers, if they hope for the franchise to endure.

Ironically, I think one of the first drafts uses the term “Saga 1” or “The First Saga”. I think these three trilogies will forever be the “First Star Wars Saga”, but as a Star Wars fan, I hope the franchise can grow beyond that and explore new and interesting corners of the galaxy with brand new characters we can fall in love with.

Post
#1272180
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I do agree with you, and especially this sentence is spot-on.

Lesser said:

Balance is recognizing the dark side within all things, and accepting it’s existence, in order to fulfill self satisfaction, because there is no way anything can be ultimately good in nature.

To let me play devil’s advocate for a second, both The Clone Wars and The Last Jedi have used Yin Yang symbolism to illustrate the light and the dark as two sides of the Force. Luke seems to go at length to show Rey the aspects of light and dark throughout life and our reality.

Maybe they are wanting to demonstrate the dark side as a part of the Force to not demonize those negative aspects in ourselves. Yes, we all have bad, dark side flaws, but maybe seeing those flaws as evil is not the answer. Instead we have to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of those emotions.

The dark side is still corrupting by nature. If you give into your fear and anger it can lead you down a cycle of hate and suffering. The dark side is dangerous, but it is a part of who we are. We can’t deny it, we can only recognize it in order to overcome it.

So the dark side isn’t some evil we can just stamp out from the galaxy, it is an aspect of us that can lead us down a corrupting path if we give into it. So, the dark side of the Force can be thought of as a chaotic neutral aspect of nature, and when it makes contact with our own inner dark side, it can be volatile. So the dark side might not be evil by design, but people can use it to do bad things.

So yeah, maybe they’re going this route so kids don’t see their dark side as “evil”, just a part of themselves they have accept and understand in order to become a mature person.

Post
#1272113
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

True, but I feel like it’s going to “set-up” the First Order and other ST-lore at least in some ways.

This is a cool thing about the Mandalorian. I’ve heard a lot of people say it would’ve been cool if the First Order had been like anti-rebels, with limited equipment and resources. That would be cool to see. Something like a scrappy Imperial Remnant, and I think we could still get that in the Mandalorian, and stories like it that are set in this time period.

While the official Galactic Empire surrendered and the war is technically over, there could be a few straggling warlords holding onto control of a handful of far flung star systems. It seems the titular character in the Mandalorian will run into some kind of Imperial faction. Their exact identity is still a bit of a mystery, but this is what I’m hoping for. According the new canon the Empire was officially defeated one year after the Battle of Endor, but according to Jon Favreau this is a few years after that (like 2-3?), so that means the Empire still exists in some form (possibly as the proto-First Order or some other remnant faction like I mentioned earlier).

It could be reminiscent to the old EU, but these Imperial Remnants are more concerned with maintaining control over what little power they have left, rather than trying to take on the New Republic constantly. You could even have a new series like the Rogue Squadron novels that are about small New Republic units trying to liberate handfuls of systems from Imperial control.

I think it would be a nice middle ground between the old EU and the new canon. And if most of the Remnants they have dealt with over the years had been very minor threats on the galactic scale, it would help explain why they didn’t immediately perceive the First Order as a threat, thinking it was just another warlord faction barely surviving on the edge of known space.

Post
#1272105
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

I think on the surface the OT and ST are similar, but given time for the canon to explore that time period (which they have been avoiding as to give as much creative freedom to the filmmakers as possible), these the two era can potentially feel quite distinct.

I think the political situation in the buildup to the war can be grounds for a very compelling story about politics and espionage. The show Resistance does get into that a bit. Spies within the Senate, and unknown threat in uncharted space.

I think this new war has a lot of potential to set itself apart from the Galactic Civil War as well. The Resistance can literally fit on the Falcon, even the Rebellion was better off in its worst condition. How will they recruit help? How will they actually fight the First Order? Will they use even more dirty, guerrilla tactics rather than open battles like the Rebellion did?

The First Order are invaders rather than the de facto government, how will they treat their citizens and the Resistance compared to the Old Empire? Will they be more radical? More aggressive? You also have the dynamic between the old guard and the new, the Imperials vets vs the First Order generation and how they perceive each other.

And for me, one of the most interesting things is the fact that the leaders on both sides are in fact mother and son. The family drama has manifested into a galactic-scale war, even more so than the Galactic Civil War if you think about it. I definitely think it is possible for this conflict to stand out from the OT, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they handle it in IX and further media.

Post
#1272020
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

nl0428 said:

When Ben destroyed his mask, that was a symbolism of him ditching his ways as being a Darth Vader impersonator. He was berated by Snoke, and while I still believe he looks up to Anakin as Vader, he isn’t going to go around wearing a mask anymore, as he has become his own self, yet still conflicted inside. I really hope Ben doesn’t start wearing the Kylo Ren mask in Episode IX, as its backtracking on himself as a character, like nothing has happened to make him decide to stop acting like Vader.

Or, Ben has regressed to needing to hide behind a mask after Rey’s rejection. I don’t think Kylo will be in a good place emotionally when we see him in IX, so he could be using the mask as a reforged identity.

Post
#1272019
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

This also brings up the question of who can even see Force ghosts?

Leia apparently couldn’t see them at the end of ROTJ, so is it a matter of one’s own ability with the Force? Maybe Force ghosts can choose who they appear to? Maybe it is a bit of both, since Yoda couldn’t appear to Luke until he reconnected with the Force.

To build onto that, I personally like the idea that Force ghosts can only appear to people they knew while they were alive. This might seem limiting, but I think there needs to be some kind of limit, because without one it kind of lowers the stakes of Luke’s importance. For example, even if Luke didn’t pass on what he learned, Yoda or Obi-Wan could just appear to anyone who was strong enough with the Force and teach them how to be a Jedi even after Luke was dead and gone. But, if Luke dies without teaching anyone, then that knowledge will be lost forever.

But now that Rey has met Luke, Luke will be able to come to her as a Force ghost and continue her training in IX, presumably.

This idea would also explain why Luke didn’t see Qui-Gon at the end of ROTJ. A Certain Point of View showed us that Qui-Gon had learned to manifest himself by the time of ANH, but despite that we don’t see him at the end of ROTJ.

To continue, if you carried this idea forward, that would also mean that Kylo Ren/Ben Solo couldn’t see Anakin since he never met him. But, it would kind of answer why Anakin never appeared to him before to stop him from going down that path in the first place. And maybe someone’s depth within the dark side almost makes contact difficult or impossible. This would explain why Obi-Wan or Yoda couldn’t help Luke fight Vader and Palpatine. Obi says in ESB that if Luke faces Vader that he can’t interfere. Yes, you could argue that there are “certain rules” he can’t break, but I just personally like the idea that dark siders can create “interference” that make it difficult for Force ghosts to manifest near them. This would help explain why Force ghosts can really appear to give advice and not really help in a battle with dark siders.

Also, maybe Force ghosts are both an independent manifestation of the Force, but they also can only manifest physically by using a living Force-sensitive individual as a conduit. Yoda not being able to appear to Luke until he reconnected would explain that. If Yoda was solely an independent manifestation, Luke’s own connection to the Force wouldn’t have mattered. And clearly it comes down to the individual, because Rey, another strong Force-user, her presence didn’t allow Yoda to manifest in front of Luke, either. And Yoda never appeared for Rey to give her advice on how to get through to Luke. Sure, you can say that Yoda wanted her to figure it out on her own, but I think physical limits to her abilities would allow you not have to to resort to handwavey explanations.

Maybe in extreme situations the rules can be bent, like in visions or dreams. Sort of like how Rey hears whispers of Obi-Wan during the Force vision. So maybe Kylo could still see Anakin/Vader in a dream or vision, but not in a regular old conversation.

A Force-user’s perception could also possibly effect how the Force ghost is manifested. So Force ghosts could either choose how they want to appear, or maybe the conduit’s own imagination or memory of an individual could effect how they appear to them. If Luke had saw old holograms of young Anakin Skywalker, it could also explain why Luke perceived him that way in ROTJ. But the canon seems to imply their appearance is the ghost’s own choice, so maybe Anakin just wanted to appear young.

I think the writers will do whatever is necessary for the story, but I do think Force ghosts need some kind of limitations in-universe. Otherwise, they become a Deus Ex Machina that raises questions of why they didn’t just do this or that in the story.

We know Luke will appear as a Force ghost in IX, so maybe the extent of his abilities will broaden our view on Force ghosts and throw all my ideas out the window. This is just how I like to perceive it as of now.

Post
#1272008
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I actually have pretty similar feelings to Dom on this point. I always felt the best way to address the issue of young vs old Force ghost Anakin is to not have Anakin as a Force ghost at all. I’m not saying Anakin should never become one, but maybe Anakin could have learned in time, like Qui-Gon apparently did.

So even if we saw Anakin in IX, it wouldn’t necessarily contradict it. Anakin has had time to learn how to manifest himself, like Qui-Gon, since he never learned how when he was alive. Plus, we didn’t see Anakin’s body disappear, like Yoda, Obi-Wan, or Luke.

And I guess you could make an argument about him being the Chosen One, or the netherworld of the Force being beyond the boundaries of time, but still. It apparently took time for Qui-Gon to learn how to do it, but I guess you could argue that once he figured it out he just had to pass that information on to the others. And maybe Qui-Gon had learned how to become a Force ghost quickly, but the “shroud of the dark side” during the rise of Sidious and the Clone Wars was like a barrier that prevented him from making contact, and it wasn’t until some great disturbance in the Force, like the Jedi Purge, that allowed him to pass through that veil. It’s a lot of speculation.

You could even say Anakin spent eons floating around in the netherworld before he learned how to manifest himself, but it was merely an instant in our own reality.

I guess it might boil down to if it felt like Anakin earned it. Yes, I think he was able to find forgiveness, and forgive himself, which allowed for him to move on, similar to Luke. On the other hand, after being evil for so long, you do wonder if he could have spent some time floating in the netherworld as penance before being able to manifest himself.

Post
#1271896
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

I think I would just cut the line out altogether. Probably would be easier!

I would definitely have to see how that would look though. I think making Takodana red would be a lot easier than making D’Qar red, because D’Qar has a very blue horizon that would be hard to change. And with D’Qar, I would even recommend trying to desaturate the green a little bit, maybe make the grass look yellow almost. It might make D’Qar feel more like a grassland planet like Dantooine rather than a jungle-world like Yavin.

Post
#1271887
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Mocata said:

Since ROTS the prequels have slowly mutated from just movies, into ideas of movies, to ideas of memes. Now the internet has absorbed the whole thing and slowly spews out Palpatine image macros that have no relevance to the actual reality of movies that are below average at best. Meanwhile George’s position as “genius creator” remains unchallenged in a way that many will believe his now Disney branded version of events. Interesting? Maybe. But not surprising. People are weird and fickle.

Having gone from a child to an adult during this time period, I’m trying to go back and figure out what exactly changed between then and now. I kinda want to try and lay out a timeline of sorts.

So between 1999 and 2005, we had the releases of the prequels. The films didn’t do well critically, and while some fans liked them, a lot of fans who grew up with the OT didn’t. While I remember a lot of grade school kids my age liked the films for what they were, the kids who didn’t have an interest in Star Wars just didn’t say anything about them. I do remember though a lot of stuff from the early 00s days of the internet that did make fun of the prequels, like flash animations of Jar Jar, the “George Lucas raped my childhood” song, etc.

My memory isn’t the best during this time, so maybe someone who was already an adult in the 2000s could get a sense of the atmosphere better than I can. But it does seem like during the time, the kids still enjoyed the prequels, but the OG fans and critics alike were generally disappointed in them, while the movies came and went for general audiences (they still made $$$). I would definitely say during this time it was popular to hate the prequels. I also think the quality of the films probably encouraged disappointment toward George regarding the Special Editions as well as his refusal the release the unaltered OT.

This drastic change of attitude, though, I think can be seen just in the past 10 years.
In 2009 and 2010, RedLetterMedia released the Star Wars Plinkett reviews that went viral on the internet. Also, you had other media like the movie Fanboys (2009), about Star Wars fans wanting to break into Lucasfilm and watch The Phantom Menace so their terminally ill friend can watch it before he dies (the film ends with them in the theater on opening day with one of them asking, “What if it sucks?”), and you also had the documentary The People vs George Lucas (2010). A lot of this content at the turn of the decade, combined with the rise of social media, reignited the criticism toward the prequels. It also is during a time where the was little Star Wars content beyond The Clone Wars which were in their weaker, earlier seasons at the time.

But interestingly, I think the dialogue started to change again just within 5 or so years. Just a few years later, we found out Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney, and they were making Episodes 7, 8 and 9. I remember people being a little skeptical about Star Wars becoming “Disney-fied”, I remember a lot of jokes about Jedi Mickey Mouse, but I generally seem to remember people being happy about it.

During that time gap, a few things had been beginning to happen. One, The Clone Wars had began to come into its own as a show, and were bringing back a lot of adult fans, and I also believe it began to recontextualize the prequels for many people. And second, a lot of the kids who grew up with the prequels were becoming adults, like myself. So during the build-up and anticipation for the new films, there began to be a lot of videos that were going back and looking at the prequels from a different perspective. You had videos like this, “Are the Star Wars Prequels Secretly Brilliant?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ&t=406s

Suddenly some people were starting to spread the idea that the prequels weren’t so bad. After TFA came out, it seemed most critics, a lot of fans, and general audiences really enjoyed it ($$$$$$), but there were some fans who were quick to call it a New Hope rehash, probably its biggest criticism. People started comparing it to George’s “world building” in the Prequels and Clone Wars, and this only increased with how divisive The Last Jedi ended up being. You have people who really hate the new movies use George’s lack of involvement as a way to discredit the new films, or they will continuously praise George and his brilliance. the r/prequelmemes subreddit was also created in 2016, so after the TFA release.

But, I really think fans just use George as a weapon for their arguments and their opinions. I vividly remember people talking about how George betrayed his own vision with the Prequels and the Special Editions. The idea that the fans understood Star Wars better than its creator, that he had lost his touch, was a very common opinion. But now, people are saying that because the new movies lack George’s creative touch, that they are no better than “fan fiction”. You see what I mean?

And this leads us to now. I have no idea what this will mean for IX. I’m genuinely curious if JJ can do something that can please both the people who like the new movies and who don’t. If JJ and Chris have figured something out to do that, I will honestly think they’ve done the impossible. I think the safe bet though is that if you don’t like TFA and TLJ, you won’t like Episode IX. BUT, I would still encourage those people to give it a chance because I could be totally wrong (and I hope I am).

But I will be curious to see how people look back on this trilogy in 10-15 years. Honestly, with how fast social media moves now, I wouldn’t be surprised if people look back it in a better light even within 5 years. But I think with several years worth of extra content, and being able to watch the films back-to-back without years of anticipation and speculation, people will look back at them differently (especially with the voices of an adult Gen Z included). Also, if other media turns out to be popular with both sides of the fence, really like The Mandalorian and the new trilogies, people might start giving Disney-Lucasfilm Star Wars a fairer shake. It might be an optimistic view, but maybe a lot of the hate will stop when we leave the OT behind.

Post
#1271811
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Thanks! I’m sure we’ll find out more about Snoke in the future (maybe even in Episode IX) but I’ve been trying to think of ways to kind of hint at Snoke’s backstory. This is just one option, and this way you technically don’t have to change anything related to him in the ST. As soon as we see him we would know who he is, and although the movie wouldn’t tell us how he survived, Palpatine would have hinted at his abilities to “cheat death”, so we can assume he somehow managed.

Whenever we get more info on him, I’ll probably think of ways to hint at that backstory more in the films, but this is one option at least. Another I was thinking of would be to insert a very brief cameo in Return of the Jedi. For example, in the scene where Vader goes to tell Palpatine that Luke is on Endor, Palpatine has his chair turned away from the door. Maybe here, you could insert a hologram of a less-scarred Snoke in front of Palpatine, as if they were having a conversation that Vader interrupted, and the hologram quickly fades as the Emperor turns to face Vader.

This idea would be implying that Snoke may have been an advisor to the Emperor, and it wouldn’t necessarily be out of place because there is another scene in ROTJ where the Emperor is with his advisors. With this idea, Snoke was an advisor, maybe a dark side acolyte, who was already located in the Unknown Regions, and came to power once the Empire fled there. Maybe Snoke, after Sidious’ death, was trying to learn the ways of the dark side to resurrect the Sith. It would be an interesting inverse of Luke. This idea would be a lot easier to implement than the Snoke/Plagueis one, and you could make the hologram very brief so as it really wouldn’t hurt the sanctity of ROTJ, but still be enough to foreshadow his character for the ST.

Also, Kylo Ren’s line, “It’s time to let old things die. Snoke, Skywalker, the Jedi, the Sith, the rebels, let it all die.” This line seems to imply that the Sith weren’t totally dead, which leads credence to both ideas. With Snoke=Plagueis, even though Snoke may not have identified as a Sith anymore, he still had that knowledge and power. With Snoke as Advisor, it would also imply that Snoke was trying to keep the Sith traditions alive.

And like I said, the new canon might eventually come up with another backstory for him, but it would be cool to try to plant some hints to whatever it is in the films themselves. And if IX gives us backstory for him, then I’d just go with that. But until then, these might be two options to consider.

EDIT:
For Return of the Jedi, I’m referring to this scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85EEB_-fkQw

This ILM VFX Reel has a cool 180 pan around Snoke that could possible be used to have his hologram at the right angle in front of Palpatine, although a part of his head is cut off, so it would either need to be added back on or covered up with a hood or something
https://youtu.be/69Ld3phO1V0?t=26

Post
#1271794
Topic
Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy
Time

leetwall31 said:

I really hope that’s not true. And it’s not the just the internet. Majority of my friends (whom aren’t Star Wars fans in the first place) really didn’t care for it. I can’t recall hearing any good opinions on it the time it came out. It was always “eh”.

I get what your saying, but anecdotal information isn’t really evidence. Many of the people I know who saw the movie liked it, and I read a lot of good opinions about the movie. Does that make me right?

No one is posting videos month-after-month about how AWESOME Episode 8 was. The only people who do that are Die-Hard-Fans, and they’re not saying it was AWESOME. They keep doing this month-after-month because they care about Star Wars the most, so Disney should listen to them more.

“You know it’s-”

Post
#1271792
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Thanks! And yeah, the hologram option gives you a lot of options that you could play with. I actually believe Anakin going to Windu was something that was added in reshoots. I believe the Secret History of Star Wars book goes over that. It might be worth going back and seeing why they decided to go back and add that, too.

Okay, jumping around again but here is another big idea.

Awhile back and I stumbled upon this guy’s YouTube channel called Write Engage Grow. He doesn’t have a lot of Star Wars videos, but he has one video for each of the prequel films. I especially like his video for Revenge of the Sith, and I plan on eventually implementing that idea to an edit, but he has an interesting, radical idea regarding The Phantom Menace that could fit here. I’ll share the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfewoflX7E

I’ll try to summarize it. Basically, he makes an argument for how Palpatine is one of the stronger characters of the Prequels, and since his identity isn’t much of a secret, it was a missed opportunity not to develop his story more. So, his suggestion (more from a rewriting perspective) was to cut the Gungan plot and instead use that time to have a few brief scenes with Palpatine and his master, Darth Plagueis. The Legends book, Plagueis, by James Luceno covers this relationship and actually reveals that Plagueis was around during the events of The Phantom Menace, and it was during this time that Palpatine killed him, which he recounts in Revenge of the Sith.

His video outlines some benefits of having a subplot like this. Anyway, most rewrite ideas are sort of useless fanediting-wise because of the infeasibility, but I actually don’t think this idea is totally out of the realm of possibility.
The idea would require shooting new scenes, but at the least it could be just two scenes, maybe three, basically equal to the amount of scenes Sidious and Maul get together. The scenes could either be shot on small, one-room sets or green screen, and you would only need two (or even just one) actor(s) in black robes that conceal their identity.

The first, and/or second, scene(s) would be reminiscent to the Vader/Emperor scene in Empire Strikes Back. Palpatine, in his black robe (we can’t see his face) enters a room and a hologram of Plagueis appears, giving some brief dialogue about the Sith or the Chosen One that could be pulled from the Plagueis novel. Most of the dialogue would be a new voice actor for Plagueis, with brief interjections from Palpatine where clean dialogue can be pulled from. For Palpatine’s shots we could use the close-up of him during his breif scene with Maul, and have his mouth move/not move when necessay to fit the dialogue.

The last scene would be of Palpatine, in all black, entering Plagueis’ bedroom to kill him. We wouldn’t have to see Plagueis, just the shape of a body in bed. The figure in black walks up to the bed, a quick shot of Palpatine’s face could be inserted somewhere (possibly the same one as before) and have him kill him someway, stabbing him with a lightsaber, Force lightning, etc.

Just to take this a step further, I’m not saying I would necessarily do this myself, but for those who like this certain theory, it could be an opportunity to set up the idea that Darth Plagueis’ alter ego is Snoke.
For the shots of Plagueis’ face, you could use these photoshopped images of Snoke without the facial deformities and scarring. 1) https://i.redd.it/bpnydo7c3vk01.jpg 2) https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f2/4a/ba/f24aba15a31f5f132cd80fc953168bb1.jpg
Then, you could use the same technique Adywan used for his Emperor in ESB:R to make him feel like he is talking. And you can find some pretty decent Snoke impersonators on YouTube, and probably here on this site too.

Whatever Palpatine does to “kill” him could be the reason for his scars, and you could have Palpatine kill him in a more ambiguous way. I can imagine a shot where Palpatine knocks over a candle in his room as he leaves, and then we see his ship flying away from the building as his apartment is on fire. Or, he blows up his apartment from a distance. A lot of options. The only downside is we wouldn’t get an explanation of how he survived, beyond Palpatine saying he knew how to “create life” and “cheat death”. And, of course, how Plagueis’ survival could undermine Palpatine’s own intelligence and authority as the big bad of the OT.

Anyway, this is a bigger edit idea then my usual stuff, but it definitely fits under that “Radical Idea” criteria, but I don’t think it is totally impossible either. Just would require some actual costumes and production work.

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#1271757
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STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
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That is a really good question! I think it is a bit of both.

I don’t know how much of it is intentional on George and Larry’s part when they wrote Luke this way, of course having Luke be a swashbuckler in this instance is a lot more fun than if he talked their way out of it, but I think the film constantly shows Luke kind of in this grey area between the dark side and “the good side” that is meant for us to wonder if Luke is going to turn or not.

Of course Luke and company had limited resources with their knowledge and experience so they had limited options, but I think a wiser Jedi would have found a way to resolve the situation without violence, or at least non-fatal violence. The only instance of violence from Obi-Wan or Yoda in the OT is when Obi-Wan cuts off that guy’s arm in the Cantina, but even then it appears he didn’t kill the guy, just “disarmed” him.

I mean yeah, Luke’s intentions are totally in the right place, he is doing it to save his friends, but I think even just in the OT it is demonstrated how even good intentions can lead you down the path of the dark side. Yoda feared Luke turning when he was so desperate to save his friends on Bespin, and Luke almost turned when he got a taste of the dark side when Vader threatened to turn Leia.

I think the old ROTJ even implied that Luke is happy to destroy people who caused his friends pain. As Luke is growing in power, he clearly is still coming to understand his relationship with it, and I think that is pretty compelling for his character.

I’ll leave you with this one important question: Did Max Rebo deserve to die?