I had a go at the Finn and Jannah scene.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JVfNWEHbAeUcyaNeV9w66N-iYoT2XSiJ
Changed Rey’s line to Leia as she turns over the lightsaber from “your brother’s saber” to “your family’s saber” to begin to plant a seed about eventually identifying herself with the Skywalker family (AI voice provided by Jar Jar Bricks)
In a callback to a line modified earlier, when Leia hands Leia the saber before she departs the base, she tells Rey, “You are family” (AI line provided by Jar Jar Bricks)
I had nothing to do with these two. RL did both of these 😉
Did not mind at all but thanks for the credit Jar Jar!
- Jannah AI voice to make it clear her company views Finn as their inspiration for rebelling
So yeah, here’s this:
https://youtu.be/3DCC0abhlw8?si=Ldy4RsWbMnQocf-EI think the first line sounds pretty good but the second one could be improved (or removed entirely). Really it’s only the first one that’s important.
This is really good! Did you use the whole sample you sent me, or just the lines from this scene?
I NEED this.
I think you could just replace all of it to make it the same, and add new hologram distortion effects, because it isn’t a lot of dialogue.
It is better than I thought it would be! I’m also sort of in the camp of not adding AI dialogue to Exegol unless necessary, but adding something in to his hologram convo with Pryde potentially. A part of me feels it will still be a challenge to make it blend into the sound mix, like Hal mentioned. At least we know that it actually might be doable though if we are set on something!
That’s true! Maybe we could play with a few different variations of that. Though it might not be obvious initially that destroying the throne is the key.
And yes, I’ve considered that too. I wanted to keep it vague so we don’t really know if Palpatine is hearing Anakin. But even if he did, he might not realize what that fully means until he gets a taste of their power. And Anakin doesn’t say anything about that means beyond “balance”, wish means nothing to Palpatine.
EDIT: He knows they have a bond, but maybe his evil Sith heart just wouldn’t even consider the power something like the dyad would have. It’s possible if you were watching it from a first-time perspective, you wouldn’t think it is contradictory for him to react like that.
EDIT: I know others have considered reintegrating his trailer line, “Your coming together will be your undoing”, and this could be an appropriate context to add it back in. I’d probably swap it out with “Unseen for generations”, which just raises more questions than answers.
Thanks! And yeah, that’s what I was thinking too.
With all that throne stuff in mind, it does make me think Palpatine and Rey’s dialogue could go a little different in that final interaction. To enhance that selfish/selfless individual/collective theme, maybe they could say:
Palpatine: I am the Sith!
Rey: And I, I’m all the Jedi.
I know Ascendant changed that, but it would make sense in this context. I also think you could shorten this Palpatine line to just:
Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you.
I think “all the Sith” stuff just muddies the waters, and it would be better Palpatine didn’t refer to himself as being a part of anything but himself.
Honestly I think you’re better off spelling it out for the audience. It’s like, if I showed this to someone who wasn’t an Uber-fan, I’d want them to be able to tell me at the end of the movie, “Oh yeah, the throne had the power to keep the bad guy alive, so Rey destroyed it!” I might be wrong though!
Regarding the dyad, it has always bugged me that the dyad concept isn’t even mentioned until halfway through the movie, when Kylo calls them that. And what that means isn’t even explained until Palpatine starts draining their power at the end of the movie.
Right now, my idea is to set it up in the vision when Kylo touches Vader’s helmet. For a more normal approach, you could just add the line when Palpatine says it with some “dyad” imagery perhaps.
I have had this plan to use the Jedi whispers Rey hears on Ahch-To in the other movies. Like in TFA, when Rey is being drawn to the saber, and maybe subtly while Rey and Kylo are in each other’s heads during the interrogation. Finally, we’d hear the whispers when Rey is saying “be with me” at the end of the film, and they morph into the voices of the Jedi. On top of that, I wanted to include the voice of Anakin briefly whispering “Rey” when she being called to the lightsaber and the Jedi tree.
In this version I have planned, Kylo connects with Vader’s helmet again after meeting Palpatine to try and get some answers. Because at this point he knows Palpatine was using the helmet to manipulate him. But he wants to try and gain insight if he can, and he does, a little bit. This time, even though Palpatine’s influence is strong, Anakin gets through slightly.
Kylo: Show me.
Palpatine/Vader: Join me.
Ben: Grandfather.
Anakin: Palpatine lies!
Palpatine: I can give you…
Anakin: I brought you together.
Palpatine: everything…
Anakin: A dyad in the Force.
Palpatine: The Throne…
Anakin: Balance.
Palpatine: Power.
Shots of dark Rey and Kylo.
Anakin: No!!
I still want it to be stream of consciousness and vague, but basically, we see a Force battle in Kylo’s mind between Anakin and Palpatine. Anakin manages to get some info to Kylo, don’t trust Palpatine, him and Rey are a dyad. But Palpatine makes him misinterpret what Anakin is trying to say.
It doesn’t have to be Anakin, or he could say, “We brought you together” in a collective Force sense, but these things would be a way to show how Anakin’s influence has actually been countering Palpatine’s influence all this time. And, it actually shows where Kylo even heard the term “dyad in the Force”.
Nev, was thinking about your idea, and I had this thought.
During the Resistance briefing, you could change C-3PO’s line from this:
Exegol does not appear on any star chart, but Legend describes it as the hidden world of the Sith.
To this:
A lost Sith world. Legend says the Throne of Exegol held the power over death itself.
This actually would be the perfect place to put this type of exposition. This is the scene where we get the Palpatine exposition dump, with our characters speculating (and us wondering) on how he’s alive.
With this line, we are told why this place is important, and what’s special about this place that allowed Palpatine to survive. Also, it is the antithesis of the Dyad in the Force. The Dyad has the power of life itself, the Throne has the power of death. Only one person can sit on the throne, representing selfishness. But the Dyad is two that are one, representing selflessness. The Dyad is a human/spiritual connection, the Throne is a material/physical connection. Love vs Power.
So I wouldn’t interpret Palpatine as “alive” until he absorbs the dyad energy. Up until then, he is just “undead”. A Sith lich.
It would work with the theatrical since the throne is destroyed in the explosion, but all you would need to do at the end is just add more lightning VFX that go past/through Palpatine and hit the throne. And make sure it is depicted so Palpatine is shooting lightning the whole time up until the throne is destroyed, so all Rey is doing is deflecting/redirecting it.
And if you wanted to use Jedi voices to remind the audience, it could be something simple like, “The throne, Rey.” You could also make the Jedi voices give just random pieces of vague Jedi wisdom, like Yoda’s knowledge and defense line, but allows us to connect the dots that adds up to this conclusion. I like the idea of this moment being generally inspiring and carry a more personal character/story-driven message, but maybe it can be framed in a way that kills two birds with one stone.
Honestly I think this would be a really satisfying way to address how Palpatine won’t just come back again. And even better, Rey uses her wisdom to realize how she can defeat Palpatine without just straight up killing him up, which it currently seems like she does.
I think some troopers recognize him, like the trooper he fights in TFA and the trooper on the Supremacy from the TLJ deleted scene, but I don’t think most would recognize them. It seems like only troopers who knew him personally, or were in the same company/legion as him, have seen his face during day-to-day life.
And it’s possible some knew of his betrayal, or the FO kept it under wraps, but overtime stormtroopers came to learn of his story. Maybe Resistance propaganda pushed that idea and it stormtroopers encountered it in the field.
And I agree with Jar Jar. I think Jannah exclaiming “You?!” could be recontextualized once we imply she’s heard of FN-2187.
I like the idea but I feel like it is important to reestablish her parents importance in her story considering the movie is about to talk a whole lot about that.
That’s true, at least for a Rey Palpatine edit. Not necessarily a Rey Nobody one.
I wasn’t making this for Ascendant, just testing out some lines for a Rey Nobody edit, but I was planning to replace the “Do you still count the days since your parents left?” line with something relevant to this. It works fine for a Rey Nobody edit, but I liked the idea of paralleling Kylo’s cracked mask with Rey’s cracked lightsaber. And also play into her identity stuff.
He doesn’t see the actual blade in this scene obviously, but he sees the hilt on her waist, and sees she has repaired it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15c1Uq-aZhsnSrLcTBrhjfAG1DBwbhMKB/view?usp=drivesdk
Changing that line so extensively would probably clash with the rest of the scene, though.
“I just want to know what’s going on.”
“Of course you do. I understand. But what I want is a captain I can trust. You’re impulsive…dangerous…and the last thing we need right now.”
Hal might not want to open this can of worms with the other movies outside of TROS. But it is something I’m looking into. I actually recent went through and took notes on what I dialogue I would alter for the movie. I had something similar, but that line is even better! And, I feel like it flows really well with how it looks like she moves. Better than the current line.
I love Hayden Christensen
I was wondering you’d think about this episode! I felt the way Hayden acted here was similar to how you had him be in the new canon cut.
That’s kind of how I was picturing it. You could paint out the lightning directly hit Palpatine from Rey’s sabers, and make it seem like what is happening to the throne is happening to him.
At the very least, this whole idea made me realize that another nice VFX change would be for Palpatine to have Lightning emanating from his hands the entire time right up until he dies, instead of stopping toward the end. It just makes it feel a little more like Rey killing him, rather than Rey just deflecting Palpatine’s Lightning back at him while defending herself.
Yeah, it’s the cruft that Hal has talked about. And I tried to use the same method I used to clean up Poe’s dialogue but it doesn’t work.
These are just some random lines I spat out real quick to test it:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18R7jtXjYzgKaLAgMriWPk7Ku10rayCw_
It’s something you might be able to get away with through the narrative filter of holograms or masks, like in Kylo’s case, but when they’re just speaking out loud it doesn’t hold up.
Both fair points.
Also, I played around with a Palpatine AI voice just so we know if all this is even worth discussing, and I’ll admit I’m honestly surprised with it. With that said, I still don’t think any AI dialogue would even hold up with the surrounding dialogue.
The only scene I could think of that you could make it work would be the hologram scene he has with general Pryde, since his hologram voice doesn’t have that heavy reverb, and any artifacts can be “masked” by the hologram distortion. The Sith ship blowing up Kijimi was cut, wasn’t it? If so, was the relevant dialogue from this scene also cut? If anything, you could potentially pop in one line in its place.
Palpatine: The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan, but her foolish act will be in vain. Come to me on Exegol, General Pryde.
Pryde: As I served you in the old wars, I serve you now.
Palpatine: Only the strongest shall rule. The Final Order begins. She will come, her friends will follow.
Having Palpatine say this to a third party doesn’t mess with how he manipulates Rey or Kylo directly. But, it speaks to Palpatine’s philosophy, that Kylo is no longer the strongest and maybe “she” is, and it can even hint at Pryde’s motivations for being loyal to Palpatine. He clearly felt he was stronger than Hux and deserved to rule more than him.
Anyway, we can drop the Palpatine stuff. Like I said, I think this is the only scene you could seamlessly use Palpatine AI voice.
- When Rey calls upon the Jedi for the final time, after the Jedi give their generic support…”
This is something I am wanting to address too.
Continuing a convo from the Ascendant thread (though this would be relevant for Rey Nobody as well)
The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.
Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.
She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.
So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?
“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”
“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”
We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.
The angle I’m going for right now is control. Rey has this raw power, but she really doesn’t have any control over it. She hurts BB-8 during her training, she almost kills Chewbacca, she Force-pushes Finn on the Death Star, and she almost kills Kylo/Ben. Her raw, uncontrollable power is a threat to her belonging and family, which ties into her sense of self-worth. She fears she isn’t good enough for a family, that she might just hurt the ones she cares about. She might lose her family if she joined the Sith, but they might die if she doesn’t, or get hurt by her if she can’t learn to control her powers. She feels trapped, and doesn’t know what to do.
Basically, “if you can’t control the dark side, the dark side will control you.” That’s the argument the villains are making. Palpatine and Kylo Ren both offer her ways to do so. But there’s a catch with both.
Not saying it is the best approach ever, but I think it at least gives more of a plausible reason Rey might be even a little tempted to join either of them.
Most of this idea would be framed by Kylo in new dialogue, but I think everything else that already exists would support it well.
I dig it. So you have AI line ideas for this?
I actually have each conversation mapped out, with a few to several options for certain lines. 😅 Honestly had avoided thinking about it the past year or two, but this voice AI stuff kind of sparked my brain again. I think it needs some adjustments, to make it all focused, but it feels closer than it has ever been before. At least my version of it.
I could share it here and maybe it could be hammered out.
And I like that idea, Nev, that the throne/temple itself is a significant nexus in the dark side. And the Sith made the throne to channel its power. It’d explain why he is tied to that place. Maybe that would explain all the damn lightning coming from the ground!
Even if it was explicitly spelled out, I could imagine a few ways it could be implied as much.
It does seem like “taking the throne” is pretty significant. It feels like a metaphorical gesture, but this could imply that maybe it isn’t.
As far as the lie goes, if she joins the Sith they at least won’t be dead, and she won’t hurt them because she’ll be in control of her powers. That’s a start. And as long as they’re alive, maybe she can convince them that this is the only way.
In that way it is similar to Anakin in ROTS. He knows the Sith are problematic, but he hopes he can convince Padmé it is the only way they can be together, and make things the way they want them to be.
Continuing a convo from the Ascendant thread (though this would be relevant for Rey Nobody as well)
The thing is, Rey has never wanted power, which is the issue with this entire ending. There’s nothing that Palpatine can give her that she genuinely wants, other than a sense of belonging and family, so with the revelation about him as her grandfather, she has just as much reason to want him alive as she does to kill him.
Rey doesn’t want power, she doesn’t want to rule the galaxy.
She wants to be a Jedi and gain a family, so unless Palpatine’s plan can give her that he has no angle.
So hang on a sec, here’s an idea: What if Palpatine reveals the reason that Rey can’t connect with the Jedi of the past is because he personally is blocking that connection?
“Do you know why the Jedi reject you? Because of me.”
“Kill me, and the spirit of the Jedi shall pass into you.”
We know he’s lying about that of course, but at least he’s offering her something she would genuinely want. And when she is finally able to call the Jedi to her in her final moment, it is the culmination of Rey rejecting Palpatine’s lie.
The angle I’m going for right now is control. Rey has this raw power, but she really doesn’t have any control over it. She hurts BB-8 during her training, she almost kills Chewbacca, she Force-pushes Finn on the Death Star, and she almost kills Kylo/Ben. Her raw, uncontrollable power is a threat to her belonging and family, which ties into her sense of self-worth. She fears she isn’t good enough for a family, that she might just hurt the ones she cares about. She might lose her family if she joined the Sith, but they might die if she doesn’t, or get hurt by her if she can’t learn to control her powers. She feels trapped, and doesn’t know what to do.
Basically, “if you can’t control the dark side, the dark side will control you.” That’s the argument the villains are making. Palpatine and Kylo Ren both offer her ways to do so. But there’s a catch with both.
Not saying it is the best approach ever, but I think it at least gives more of a plausible reason Rey might be even a little tempted to join either of them.
Most of this idea would be framed by Kylo in new dialogue, but I think everything else that already exists would support it well.
I’ll continue this convo in the Sequel Redux thread!
Not that it has to be used for Ascendant, but this all lines up with how I’m rewriting Kylo’s dialogue! (Hopefully to make Rey’s insecurities and temptations clearer, and make Kylo’s dialogue sound less generic).