RogueLeader

Damn, that is some fine work, Nev. Seeing this finalized shot really sells your intent with this whole idea of Rey wanting to leave with Finn. Hell, her saying “I’m leaving” works even better with this new context! And adding her running around looking for Finn in the vision is gonna sell this idea even more I think.

I think it is great as is. I do wonder if flipping the shot of the ship might work better with the eye line though. Rey is looking toward the right, so I feel like it would flow nicely if the ship was on right side of the frame instead of the left. Showing the ship from the opposite angle as before might also help unconsciously show the audience how Rey and Finn may have missed each other. Does that make sense? Haha. I had that thought of flipping the shot the first time I watched the clip, but I didn’t think about it as much after. So I think it is fine as-is too. Also, I think the volume of the voices is fine! Just another layer that helps sell the moment.

The tracking device thing sounds good too! I’m glad to see you back working on this project. I remember when we first were brainstorming the idea for the tracking device “light”. Feels like forever ago.

According to the old, leaked shooting schedule for TFA that was floating around the internet a few months before it’s release, there did seem to be a planned shot of young Ben with Snoke, in some shape or form. So you’re that probably was intended to be a young Ben.

The shooting schedule also mentioned shots of Leia and Han sending young Ben away with Luke, Ben training with him, and then leaving the Luke’s training temple. I don’t know if these were ever shot, though.

Regarding Hal’s edit, though, I think it is pretty much finished, so I think any big suggestions should be left for general edit threads for this film.

Just a little update on the puppet show: I just finished up on a project I’ve been on for the past several months, so I can get to work on the puppets guilt-free now. I was hoping to see what snooker came up with first, since I have a feeling that I will actually prefer whatever she invents, but I might go ahead and cook up something in the meantime.

This might not count, but Rian Johnson said that the overheard shot of Kylo Ren and the stormtroopers waking into the Rebel base on Crait was inspired by the overhead shot of Anakin and the clones marching into the Jedi Temple in Revenge of the Sith.

There are also some musical callbacks to the prequels. In TFA, the track “Finn’s Confession” is reminiscent to “Talk of Podracing” from TPM.

In TLJ, the track “Old Friends”, which plays as Luke and Rey are entering the cave with the Prime Jedi mural, plays a variation of the mystery motif from Attack of the Clones. You can hear this motif in the “Mystery of the Clones” track from AOTC, for example.

For a more straightforward callback, there is a battle droid in Babu Frik’s droid shop in TROS.

I’ll be honest with you, man, I think you’re bending over backwards a little bit to find more intent in on-the-fly story decisions than there really was. I think it is less that Palpatine’s return was meant to come out of nowhere, and more so that it just conveniently worked out that way, at best.

Also, you could say the Opera scene could retroactively set up that Palpatine had hidden knowledge of cheating death, but at the time ROTS was made, you could equally say that Palpatine was just lying to Anakin about knowing the secrets to cheating death in order to manipulate him into doing his bidding. It is just retroactive foreshadowing.

That doesn’t make it a bad thing, though. Like any potential “hints” that Vader was Luke’s father in the original Star Wars could also be called retroactive foreshadowing.

Again, I totally see your point by saying it actually works out better that Palpatine’s return is a surprise in IX. I actually think I agree with you to an extent. But I think it is wrong to say that is was meant to work out that way. Clearly is wasn’t always the plan to bring back Palpatine, so if you feel like the reveal works out better not set up in previous films, I think it is just serendipitous and convenient, rather than intentional.

TestingOutTheTest said:

RogueLeader said:

Honestly, when they filmed all of this, I don’t think it was originally meant to be Mustafar.

But you can come up with some Watsonian answer for it regardless. Maybe the cultists put it in the forest for some religious purpose.

Apparently it was always meant to be Mustafar. (The opening section of this script looks like it was somehow actually ripped from the real one.)

This version of the script is just based off the final film. Not earlier drafts. For example, there seems to be no deleted scenes in this script, like the deleted Oracle scene, or Kylo interrogating Chewie.

Anyway, not really important at this point.

Honestly, when they filmed all of this, I don’t think it was originally meant to be Mustafar.

But you can come up with some Watsonian answer for it regardless. Maybe the cultists put it in the forest for some religious purpose.

It actually does, but most fan edits take it out, which is probably why you don’t remember!

But the idea of Owen’s voiceover during the binary sunset is hilarious and I want to see it. It makes me more and more want to make a series of meme edits, sort of like Frink’s Ridiculous series.

I think you would be better off replacing it with a different, legitimate explanation, rather than something that turns out to be a lie in the third act. Whether it be that Kylo reveals he or Palpatine also saw the vision of Rey on the dark throne, that she actually killed her parents, etc.

Also, how would you reveal to the audience that it was actually a lie? New dialogue from Palpatine?

I do like the lava shot, but I see what you mean. The flow of the two-shot version already feels pretty natural.

Could the scenes of Kylo in the forest be graded differently to better match that shot?

Yeah, both the planet and the moon are both called Endor, as well as both suns. This is head canon, but I like to think explorers saw the Endor moon as the primary point of interest in the system, so they named that moon first and then named its planet and stars after it.

You might already know this, but the Emperor referring to Endor as the Sanctuary Moon is actually a byproduct of early ROTJ drafts, where Endor was originally a moon that orbited the the Imperial Capital of Had Abbadon (what eventually went on to become Coruscant). So, it was sort of a nature sanctuary that orbited the polluted, planet-wide cityscape of the Capital. So you kinda had this nature/technology contrast that George likes so much.

More head canon, but I like to think they dubbed Endor “The Sanctuary Moon” because explorers saw it as a paradise, and perhaps the Republic declared it a protected world, off-limits to development or colonization. So the name describes the the habitability or pleasantness of the world.

Maybe to contrast it, Kef Bir could be referred to something like “The Tempest Moon” to describe its violent winds and dangerous oceans. This powerful weather led to Kef Bir being a less preferable world to visit compared to its forest counterpart. Perhaps to give some credence to this name, Kef Bir’s weather could play a role in causing the Falcon to crash land on the planet. This would also be a nice way to parallel Shakespeare’s play of the same name. Since many people think of the play when they hear the word tempest, it might help add to those mystical connotations you were looking for in a potential name.

EDIT: Adding onto that, perhaps Jannah and the other stormtroopers also crash landed on Kef Bir. This could be why Jannah offers him a piece of their own ship, since it was beyond repair anyway. Maybe they were trying to flee from the First Order after their desertion, and while the violent weather of the planet made following them undesirable, it led to them being stuck there. Despite that, maybe they kind of don’t mind it, because it has kept them out of the First Order’s grip.

Good news! I was wondering if you managed to get it or not. I don’t really know much about the whole process so I’ll let someone more knowledgeable chime in about the best next steps for you.

From a fan-editing perspective, I feel like I see two strong directions people tend to lean in.

1. People who want to keep the gist of how TROS played. Just try to improve the movie that is there, even if you don’t agree with every decision.

2. People who liked TLJ tend to hard disagree with TROS’ story decisions more, so they have a stronger inclination to change the film more drastically.

I think the community has done a great job with Ascendant, and imo, it will most likely be seen as the definitive edit that generally keeps most of the story decisions the same. There will eventually be a Rey Nobody version, but the main version keeps Rey Palpatine. The biggest divergence from canon in Ascendant is arguably Leia’s saber color. Since we already have a great edit almost complete that generally sticks with how TROS played out, I think that reason alone makes more drastic changes worth discussing. Changes like having Ben Solo live, or don’t have Palpatine “return” somehow. I actually think a “Solo Lives” alternate ending would be a great topic for EddieDean’s idea of monthly community-driven projects.

With that being said, I would still love to see suggestions for smaller changes that make TROS’ story decisions work better or make more sense.

“The Fuhrer and his army have been hiding in the Southern Hemisphere, in a country called Argentina.”

HumanShield said:

What if the sequels took place after a Cold War type stalemate? The remaining Empire on the fringes and Republic exist with a DMZ boarder.

The fleet at the end is the fleet that always existed.

Starkiller base isn’t a new super weapon in itself and is never used. It breaks the peace treaty by manufacturing death star weaponry to be equipped on their fleet.

Leia’s group isn’t the only force in the galaxy, just the most forward operating group that is allowed by treaty.

I’ve suggested something similar to this. Basically, the New Republic and the First Order have a truce, and most of the action in the trilogy takes place in First Order space.

The First Order in TFA is focused on finding Luke, which doesn’t violate their treaty, but Leia is against this. So, since the Republic can’t take action, she forms a Resistance movement within First Order territory.

Starkiller Base is not a super weapon, and no planet gets destroyed. Then, in TLJ, the Republic can’t help Leia and the Resistance because it is outside of their jurisdiction. First Order territory, First Order rules.

I actually think that you could make it to where the First Order doesn’t really violate the treaty until IX, when it seems like the First Order are going to try and invade the galaxy using their newfound fleet.

It could be cool if you could imply that the First Order attacks the Republic and there is a war going on off-screen, but I feel like you would need new scenes to really make that work.

The pro is that the Republic isn’t destroyed. The con is that the stakes might not be as high since First Order hasn’t taken over the entire galaxy. But since that “war” is never really shown on-screen, you could argue there may as well not even be a galactic scale war.

I’ve been here long enough to know these conversations will never end regardless how much you explain your perspective. I still think these convos are worth having, and I can tell you’ve thought about the series a lot, and I agree with a lot of your opinions. That’s basically all we do here. Share our opinions.

I do generally agree with you somewhat, but I don’t really agree with your tone as people who feel the other way are objectively incorrect on their opinion. It definitely isn’t an explanation. Like you said, maybe audiences can infer it, but there was no attempt to really explain it. It is intentionally a mystery. We’re talking about JJ Abrams after all.

I actually prefer the idea that TFA presents that you laid out, of Snoke being another Force-sensitive being just biding his time, sort of like how Mother Talzin is presented in the Clone Wars. Another Force-sensitive being waiting to fill the vacuum of power.

I think one reason people had issue with Snoke because he just appears to be a copy of the Emperor. Essentially, they’re both just old, pale men in bath robes. At least TLJ gave him golden robes, implying that he has a taste for opulence, which kind of sets him apart from Palpatine. I guess you could argue he was intentionally emulating the Emperor in order to fit that role people would expect of a Supreme Leader. But again, a lot of this is implication, and there is little effort to really explore it at all.

I get that, but I just feel it was totally unnecessary and redundant for her story.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Yup, that’s why I feel it should either be removed or suggested that she knew something was up with her lineage but didn’t know exactly what.

I’d stick to the latter because otherwise the line, “Rey, never be afraid of who you are” doesn’t make much sense, because as far as she is aware Rey is nobody.

Or, you could throw the lineage junk out the window, and just have Leia know she is dealing with that inner darkness. Everybody’s got it. You don’t have to be the descendant of a bad guy to have the potential for evil.
Heck, maybe Leia could have also saw that vision of her on the throne. It doesn’t have to be because she’s a Palpatine.

What? I’m not say Leia trusted Vader. Haha.

What I’m saying is Leia didn’t have an existential crisis about her inner darkness because her father was Vader. Or if she did, she was able to learn to live with it, which could have been advice Rey could have used herself if Leia apparently knew she was a Palpatine.

Yeah, Leia knowing Rey was … sighs… a Palpatine is honestly just dumb. It can be justified however way, but it’s lazy writing.

You would think that if Leia knew this, and that Palpatine was somehow still alive and Rey, his granddaughter, was going on a mission to stop him, that it would be better to find out from Leia, her master and someone she trusts, rather than Kylo or Palpatine, who would use that information to manipulate her.

Imagine Kylo being like,
Kylo: You… are a Palpatine.

Rey: I know.

Kylo: Wait, what?

Rey: Yeah. Leia sat me down and told me already. She really understood what I was going through, since her own father literally tortured her and destroyed her home planet. Despite that, your mother is one of the greatest people in the galaxy, and her heritage didn’t affect who she was and what she stood for at all. So, Palpatine being my grandfather has zero effect on me whatsoever. If her dad being Vader didn’t effect her, Palpatine being my grandfather doesn’t effect me. If anything, it solidifies my resolve to stop Palpatine, because that’s what Luke/Leia did already 30 years ago.

Kylo: Oh… well… I guess you know what you need to do then.

Rey: I do.

SparkySywer said:

RogueLeader said:

For fan editing’s sake, I think it is interesting to think about possible alternative to TROS’ ending.

One option is to have both Rey and Ben live. I can see how this would be an issue for some, because it might not feel right if Ben could literally resurrect Rey without sacrificing his own life. If things were to play out the same way up to this point, I kinda of agree with the sentiment.

Honestly, Rey’s death kind of comes out of absolutely nowhere. I bet it would be easy to justify her just kind of not dying.

That is true. Perhaps one can edit it to where she isn’t dead, or at the very least, on the verge of death. I could see a version of the sequence that plays out really similarly to what we got, but maybe we can hear Rey’s faint heartbeat during the sequence. Ben heals her like she did him, her heartbeat goes back to normal, and she wakes up.

Okay, that sounds like it will work just fine! Thanks for answering that.

Since you added Rey having a little sketch of the island, I sort of think the day dream (at least at this point) is sort of redundant. It is cool, but I also like how the opening doesn’t explicitly show anything that would signify Rey is special, or predestined for anything.

Those are really fantastic thoughts, Burbin! It definitely felt like Rian noticed the narrative repetition when he read the TFA script, so he carried that repetition further, to an extent, in order to get it out of the way and allow the final film to go in a new, fresh direction. But then, TROS repeated a lot of the same story beats as Return of the Jedi anyway.

For fan editing’s sake, I think it is interesting to think about possible alternative to TROS’ ending.

One option is to have both Rey and Ben live. I can see how this would be an issue for some, because it might not feel right if Ben could literally resurrect Rey without sacrificing his own life. If things were to play out the same way up to this point, I kinda of agree with the sentiment.

If you went for a Palpatine-less edit, you could have two options. One, after Rey stabs Kylo, she could leave him to die, and his conversation with Han could be him atoning at death’s door, or in the afterlife.
Or, Rey does heal him and he abandons the dark path. Then, maybe they could meet at the end, with the hint that they may forge a new kind of future together. I actually think Acbagel’s ending is rather interesting, where Rey gives her life to stop Palpatine, and Ben/Kylo’s future is left ambiguous. The Jedi/Sith feud ends on Exegol, and Ben, who is neither, is left to roam the galaxy.

There are several things you could do with the Rey/Ben story, but I feel like the Resistance/First Order subplot can’t really play out much different. Maybe the people’s fleet could recontextualized as the Republic fleet. Or, we could see the First Order actually turn on the Final Order, but I’m not sure how you would be able to get that across. I think it would be interesting if you could imply in TFA and TLJ that other Imperial Remnants exist that the First Order also conquered, and maybe we could see Star Destroyers from these Remnants help defeat the Final Order. These additions might just complicate things though.

I think one of the most inevitable things to me, after watching TFA and TLJ, was Finn leading a stormtrooper rebellion. We barely get this with Jannah, but their impact seems very limited. I wish that idea could be expanded somehow in a fan edit, but I don’t see how.