I don’t think we’re doing this for Ascendant, but I think such a change would benefit the idea of Finn playing a more active role in recruiting these people to help join the cause. If Jannah and Co are helping Rey because she is the “last hope”, then it makes them sound like they’re already on board with the whole Resistance thing.
Lol, I’m glad people beat me to mentioning how random it is for Babu to send a message about the “last hope”.
I think mentioning it being on Endor defeats the purpose of it being an ancient dagger. If we don’t change the Babu Frik mention, I would probably drop these changes entirely. Unless you wanted to somehow make it clearer that Ochi made the dagger, or inscribed on it himself.
If you were to cut out those Jannah lines, perhaps you could cut it in a way as if there is a pause, a little bit of tension, but then Rey says what she says with the hope that being honest will be seen as a sign of trust. You could to the shot of the random guy, making us wait for their response, and then Jannah says they can take them there by water. Maybe you could replace 3PO’s line with something else too.
I think the Geonosis titles are good. After I suggested that, I did kind of think about how your episode titles follow a pattern of straight forward-ness that I think is better to maintain. Sort of like how all the Mandalorian episode typically follow the pattern of “The Child”, “The Gunslinger”, “The Rescue”, etc.
Sure, I’m not arguing that. I mean, they literally say Kylo Ren/Ben was seduced by the dark side. I’m just suggesting that we could elaborate on that a little. I am not really sure what you’re trying to say. Did you bring that up because you don’t think I should? You think I’m suggesting the movie doesn’t make it clear that he was seduced by the dark side?
In the film, Kylo wants to finish what Vader started, but we don’t really get an explicit answer for that. Kill the Jedi, bring order to the galaxy, etc., I’m guessing is what’s being inferred, as you like to say. So, if that’s the case, I’m just adding a bit more to that.
I wanted to suggest three different options for how the dagger could present the knowledge of the Wayfinder’s location to Rey in Kylo’s Chambers, as well as miscellaneous thoughts on how this idea can be clarified even more.
Option A:
A) The initial suggestion: Rey picks up the dagger, hears whispers, and then gets a quick glimpse of the Death Star ruins.
Pro: Quick and simple, without changing the scene drastically.
Con: Might not be clear as to why she is given this vision now, and not back on Pasaana. Held it longer? Now she is really “listening” to it? (Misc. section below could potentially address this)
Option B:
B) Create a brief flashback/vision sequence that mirror’s Kylo flashback/vision Dom made for when he touches Vader’s helmet earlier in the film. Since Rey must invoke her hate to get what she wants from the blade, we could get brief glimpses of who Rey has directed her hatred at the most: Kylo. We see Kylo kill Han, her calling him a monster, a murderous snake, Rey giving Kylo that hateful look after she knocked him down on Starkiller Base, etc. Then, at the end, she gets a glimpse of the Death Star ruins.
Pros: It clarifies what Rey did this time to earn this glimpse of the Wayfinder’s location by using editing language that already exists in Ascendant. Also, being reminded of Rey’s hate might help give more impact to Rey’s overall conflict with the dark side in this film. This hate later drives Rey to almost kill Kylo, fueling her shame. This whole “striking people down with hate” issue gets brought back up later with her killing Palpatine, so this might be a good set up for that, too. Plus, the vision allows us intercut from that one shot of Rey staring at the blade with brief flashes, giving us more time to clarify what is going on.
Cons: Gives Rey another vision sequence, which might come off as a storytelling crutch. Also, we don’t know explicitly if Rey invoked these memories of hate, or if the dagger pulled it out of her, but it may not matter. The extra length to this sequence could be seen as a detriment, and it might not fit the moment anyway.
Option C:
C) Same idea as B, but keep it all strictly through whispers. She picks up the blade, hears whispers, but she also hears her own voice saying, “Monster!”, “Murderous snake!” Then, we hear the whispers say, “Endor… Death Star…”
Pros: Simpler to execute than Option B. Sticks to the established rules of this blade, which is that it whispers to the wielder.
Cons: Might not be clear enough to express that there is a transaction happening between Rey and the dagger. It might be better if the dagger doesn’t really start whispering a lot until after she “activates” it. Also, that single shot might not be long enough to fit the whispers, Rey’s lines, and the blade’s answer, into it. You could possibly have Rey hear her own hateful words/thoughts, then she gets the brief glimpse of the Death Star ruins. This could be the moment the blade “wakes up” and starts whispering to her after that.
Regardless of which option we go with, I think these small changes could also potentially be applied to any of them to help provide a little more clarity to the scene, so I think they are worth thinking about:
Misc:
• In the theatrical, when Rey picks up the dagger, she is looking at Chewie’s bandolier, and then sort of stops and notices that she is hearing voices from the dagger. Instead, we should cut it so Rey picks up the dagger, and she is already looking at the dagger when we cut back to her face. This makes it seem like Rey picked it up because she wanted to hear the whispers, now that she knows she must listen to them to find the Wayfinder.
• Try to extend that shot of Rey staring at the dagger just to give us an extra beat or two to help clarify the scene. This is something Dom has done throughout a few sequences in his edit.
• To help clarify a connection is being made between Rey and the dagger, we could use the sound effect we hear when Kylo touches Vader’s helmet and “connects” with it. This probably would be most useful to Option B, but I think they could be applied to all three versions if we think it could differentiate this moment from the moment she first picked it up on Pasaana.
• To further differentiate this moment from the first time she touches it on Pasaana, maybe she barely gets a hint of whispers on Pasaana, but hears them more clearly on the Destroyer.
And my two cents for those who are interested:
I think a vision sequence in the same style as Dom’s Vader helmet vision could be potentially great, and add to Rey’s conflict throughout the film, so I think Option B is my first choice. I went back and watched Rey and Kylo’s interactions on the Death Star, imagining that we had gotten such a sequence earlier, and I think it would add a lot to the feeling that Rey could potentially fall to the dark side. I think it’s worth playing around with at least.
BUT, at the very least this is how I think the dagger stuff could play out. On Pasaana, Rey hears no (or faint) whispers when she picks up the dagger. When she picks up the dagger in Kylo’s chambers, we hear the Vader helmet connection sound effect (to imply a connection has been made between the dagger and Rey), we hear some of Rey’s hateful thoughts toward Kylo, and then she gets a brief glimpse of the Death Star ruins and hears whispers briefly. Then later on Endor, she remembers the line “only this blade tells”, pulls out the dagger and begins really hearing the whispers.
I know this might be a lot to think about, but I do think it is worth considering, because it would allow us to blend the McGuffin chase with actual character conflict.
I had an idea for this awhile back.
You could make it just voices, or maybe a vision like he has in TROS when he touches the helmet, since he says “show me”. But basically, the vision would revolve around three lines he hears.
Palpatine: If the Jedi are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end.
Vader: Bring order to the galaxy.
Snoke: And fulfill your destiny!
If we do get a vision, Kylo could get glimpses of the chaos of the Clone Wars, the Galactic Civil War, etc. and then maybe glimpses of a future where Kylo brings “peace” and “order” to the galaxy. Shots of the First Order, Star Destroyers over planets, confronting/killing Luke, etc.
One big benefit is that it elaborates on Kylo’s motivations for turning to the dark side, which we never really get in TFA. He didn’t just turn to the dark side because he was a bad seed or something. He at least had a reason for turning, which he thought would help the galaxy. It also lines up well with Palpatine’s reveal in TROS.
I like that, Burbin. It still reads like a poem, but they are more clearly instructions. Plus, instead of just stating what it does, it is commanding the reader what it must do. And the fact that it doesn’t perfectly rhyme is okay, since this it is a translation after all.
If you don’t mind, I played around a little bit with it for the hell of it:
This blade only whispers to darkened hearts
To show them where the Sith Wayfinder dwells
Reveal your anger, and unleash your hate
To those it chooses, only this blade tells.
I would say the simplest thing would be to state that Leia/the Resistance is aware that the First Order is up to something, maybe even building something, and they’re either trying to find evidence of what it is to convince the Republic to take action. Maybe they think finding Luke will help rally the Republic to their cause.
And yeah, maybe you could have Poe/Kylo hear Leia say something like, “Find their weapon”, taking it from “I was foolish to think I could find Luke…” and “The First Order, charging their weapon again now”. Or, she could just say, “The First Order weapon”. You could have someone record a generic Resistance officer say something like, “The First Order, they’re building something.”
Cinefy, I’m really loving your work with the Mustafar shot so far, but I’m curious if you designed the organism concept image you shared.
I still think something like this would be best option for Mustafar / Vader’s castle shot, I must just gonna give it a shot when I get the time.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501825149469851659/795325996211372073/20210103_172116.jpg
I personally prefer the way this concept looks over your newest version. I know it is still a work in progress, but the the branches, the sky, the angle of the castle, it’s really spooky. You may have no done that original concept, though.
I have some more thoughts on the dagger, but I think I might let them digest for a little bit longer.
As far as the puppet show stuff goes, a design has been decided upon for the Luke and AT-AT puppets, materials have been purchased, and I’ve made a list of the actions I’ll have them perform on camera. Just need to put them together, which won’t take long once get the designs on paper. CaptainFaraday came up with the designs, which I loved. That process will get started shortly.
Dude, I dig your recording! I bet it will sound rather ominous once some droid voice filters are applied to it.
Awesome. That is actually what I had in mind for my own rewrite. It seems like a natural direction to take them. Cant wait to hear more about this! I’ll also take some time to read a little bit of what you had written for this earlier draft.
This was a really great read! You had some similar ideas to what I have had, like Ben and Rey sort of “flipping sides” during their final confrontation.
Also, everything with Hux was chef’s kiss.
This leaves Hux running the entire First Order, a bureaucratic and complex job. He’s just as zealous as ever, but now he’s overworked and stressed. It’s not as much fun as when he was giving speeches and blowing up planets.
This^ This right here^ reads like the synopsis to the sitcom
I never knew I wanted.
Also, his demise is fantastic. Did you get the turtle thing from the rumor that was floating around the internet for awhile?
Cool, cool. I already liked the direction you took the character in IX, but I like the idea of the Hux we are introduced to in this story has grown in a more cold and calculating way.
Speaking of characters, I’m curious of your depiction of the Knights of Ren have changed at all. I like the lore that you built up around them, but I felt their characterization didn’t really fit with that brief appearance we got of them in TFA. I guess I felt like they seemed too nice or neutral for what their design kind of inferred. To me, they seemed like Dark Side/Sith cultists who saw the Grandson of Vader as their messiah, or they were Luke’s few other surviving students who totally bought into whatever Kylo’s philosophy was.
For the brain worms duology you could go with something pulpy, like, Terror of the Brain Invaders!
Something more subtle could be Hive Mind. Perhaps some double meaning could be interpreted from that.
Lol, yeah, I checked again and he asks “The Battle of Chyron Belt Admiral Holdo?”
Haha, I have never heard someone interpret that line that way. 😂
EDIT: There might be some value for the alien calling Holdo a war hero. Since there’s a theme about being a hero vs being a leader, it might be interesting to emphasize that she used to be a hero just like Poe. Which might be why she sort of likes Poe despite his flaws.
Potentially. You would just have to think of words/lines that match the length of what he says. His first line is just two syllables, and then he says “Poe”, which you could potentially change to “No”, “Don’t” I guess.
For the context of the situation, it would probably need to be something about Holdo.
Like, Poe says, “That’s Admiral Holdo? The Battle of Chiron Belt Admiral Holdo?”
The alien could reply with something short, like, “Republic hero”.
Though maybe you could put his lines somewhere else in the scene too, if you wanted it to be more spy-plot relevant.
Poe asks if that’s really Admiral Holdo, then the alien says something, and he sort of shrugs his shoulders. Poe gets up and the alien says “Poe”.
Here’s another idea:
When D’Arcy is updating the crew about what has happened, after she says all their leadership except for Leia is gone, the crew moans and groans a little. During this time, we could add a new voice line or two from random crew members asking questions like:
“How did they find us?”
“There must be a spy!”
“What are we going to do?”
Then cut back to D’Arcy, continuing with, “To that end, the chain of command is clear…”
At the very least, something like this can illustrate that the Resistance fear that there might be a spy leaking information to the First Order. Now, Holdo is going to take charge and handle the situation.
Instead of Holdo explicitly mentioning a spy, we might be able to piece together a line like, “The plan, is need to know” or “It’s a need to know plan.” I’m pretty sure she says these words in some shape or from in this scene and throughout the movie, so maybe we could get something that sounds passable. This would also work well because later, when 3PO suggests to Poe that they tell Holdo about their plan, he says, “It’s a need to know plan, and she doesn’t.” So that might help him seem impetuous.
When Leia speaks to Poe, maybe she could just say something like, “Holdo was protecting the light.” You could piece this together from that sentence she says. While it isn’t as clear as what you were suggesting, it might at least remind the audience that she was just trying to protect the Resistance by being cautious about the plan.
I don’t think anyone else has looked into finding new sources of ADR lines for Dern or Fisher, at least in this particular way. Even if you can, you run into the problem of if the line will actually fit the tone and inflection that would be appropriate for the sentence you’re trying to construct.
Hmm. I wonder if one of the AI voice generators could be used to make a simple sentence. Understanding how to use that tech is beyond me, though.
It might not work as well, but Commander D’Arcy could be redubbed by another actress, since she is present in both scenes. In her speech she could say something about their possibly being a spy, so their plan must remain top secret. Then, in the transport, she could say how Holdo didn’t know about the hyperspace tracking.
Damn, this sounds good Eddie. You’ve really put some thought into this. I’ve loved all your episodes so far, but these are the kind of episodes I really love to see come out of your project!
Damn, Nev, you’ve basically writing a novel.
To be honest I have only skimmed the Word document, but you’re saying this is a more expanded version of the treatment you wrote here, but in that process it has changed drastically.
But, now you’re saying it has changed even more, and you’re going to write this out from scratch again?
What made you decide to take out Thrawn? I have to say it was cool to see him, but I at the same time I can see how the story could be served well to focus more on the characters that already exist in the story.
Sherlock, are you working in mono or stereo? Just curious if those Finn lines you moved are separate from the other tracks where you pulled it from. I’m assuming it was, but the music just kind of bleeds into the track with the dialogue sometimes. I do think the lines need to be cleaned up a little.
I don’t necessarily have a preference between the versions. I do see what you mean by Poe’s line about the landing gear leading right into the scene of the ship crashing. I do like the way you’re showing Rey kind of distracted. Though I think it would be better to have it to where she only hears the whispers when she is holding the blade.
(I also appreciate the Inigo Montoya reference! Haha)
I appreciate your breakdown of it, Burbin. Although the dagger change was initially because I didn’t like the logic of how the dagger worked, I think the replacement is worth the effort, because it actually contributes to challenging Rey’s character in a way that it didn’t before. It is actually relevant to Rey’s main conflict, where the original wasn’t.
I think there was some confusion as to when Rey would first see a vision, or hear whispers, of the Wayfinder’s location, but that wouldn’t be until she at least picks it up on Ren’s Star Destroyer. But like I said, the main benefit isn’t really simplifying plot conveniences, it is showing Rey confronting the darkness within her.
But, I didn’t make this suggestion for Ascendant, originally, so if people don’t like it it doesn’t have to be included. I can try to work out the kinks and then a decision can be made about it.
That is an interesting idea jarbear. It makes the dagger less of a way finder for the Wayfinder, and more of an independent tool. Though it might raise questions of why he didn’t use it to find Rey before leaving Jakku.
EDIT: Maybe she could hear whispers of “Endor” and “Death Star” rather than literally seeing it. And Rey didn’t know how to use it when she first picked it up, but I can see the fear of that not being explicit.
Going with the idea that the dagger doesn’t explicitly say the Wayfinder’s location, you would have to cut two lines already:
So I think it works better that 3PO knows exactly what it says, and knows it’s the clue to find the Wayfinder that Luke was looking for. But, they’re instructions, not a precise location, so 3PO can’t just punch it into the navcomputer himself.
EDIT: And I see your point Jar Jar. To be fair, Rey doesn’t really hold it long enough to know how it works, so I don’t think the whole journey is undermined by the change.
