RogueLeader

Perhaps Vader’s dialogue in the deleted scene could be changed. Maybe something like, “Luke… join me… it is the only way to save your friends”. Something like that could plant that idea early in the film that Luke might lean toward the dark side to save his friends, which we kind of see during Tatooine sequence.

Funny that you mention that transition in particular, because I’m pretty sure that’s what I did in my very first edit!

I think if you were pursue the idea that Leia tries to rescue Han on her own, then the droids and Luke come later, this could be a way to order and re-cut scenes without new effects.

*Vader’s Arrival
*Jabba dance scene
*Leia sneaks into the palace
*Alter their capture so Boba Fett catches them instead of the whole palace hiding behind curtains
*Han gets thrown in jail, where we see Chewbacca for the first time
*Leia is taken to Jabba
*The droids approach the palace
*Bib Fortuna whisks them off to the dungeons instead of seeing Jabba
*Luke Arrives

I don’t know if I would go with this approach now, but it could be fun to see how this would look in practice. It would definitely make the Jabba sequence move much more quickly, for better or worse.

One thing that would be cool to see come out of this focus month would be some smaller little edits that people could share and use for their own projects. I wanted to expand on one idea I had that I think could make for cool little addition to the film.

Rebel Ships Crash into Death Star Shields

This is something I know Ady also has planned for his edit so it might be redundant, but it could be a fun project, especially because this idea was originally planned but never made. Overall, it would take three major things to pull off.

First I guess one would start by painting out a few of the fighters once they got to a certain point in their flight path. Then, we could find some practical explosion assets that could be used for when they blow up. Any idea where to source those? Finally, some kind of effect of when they impact the shield.

I have seen a proof of concept of this idea floating around before, but I felt like the effects didn’t blend very well with the rest of the movie. I think it would be cool to replicate the shield effect we see inside the core of the Death Star. There is this quote regarding the effect in the Returning to Jedi documentary:

“To create the blue energy effects, a laser was aimed at a rapidly spinning mirror which emitted a cone of light. Some was then blown through the ray to achieve the final effect”

I’m curious if anyone has any insight into this and could further explain how it could be replicated. I would definitely be interested in trying to film something similar for the effect if some people in the community could help me understand the process better.

Also, I’m wondering if we could discuss which source would be the best option for us to use for the community project in general, or for doing effect shots like these.

I have a lot more ideas in general for ROTJ, but I’ll post a little bit at a time so I don’t just inundate the thread with too many random thoughts.

I definitely have some thoughts on major restructures such as these for the film, and I could go ahead and talk about them a bit, but I do have some reservations about focusing too heavily on a radical re-edit.

I do agree with Vlad that I think it makes sense for Luke, Vader and the Emperor to be on the Death Star. I have certainly had thoughts on making radical changes to the movie, but reading through Rinzler’s making of book and reading the transcripts during the story meeting between Lucas, Kasdan, Marquand and Kazanjian made me understand more some of the choices they made. On one hand, this whole idea of a community focus month was partly inspired on the collaborative nature of Hal’s TFA: Restructured, which main goal was about a major plot restructure, so this type of thread could be a solid crucible to figure out the best idea and what would need to be done to achieve it.

On the other hand, I could see people having trouble coming to an agreement on such big changes. With the Starkiller restructure, we had a pretty solid consensus. It wouldn’t be a bad idea for people in favor of some of these restructures to do very rough cuts of the suggested scene order and see how it actually feels. I do see merit in ideas like Luke being on Dagobah at first, or simplifying the rescue plan for Han. It could be cool, but another part of me would rather focus on trying to make the ideas presented in the movie clearer. For example, make changes to the Jabba sequence to add clarity and focus to Luke’s plan, but not taking the fun out of it either. That’s not to say I wouldn’t mind making some trims to improve pacing.

Speaking of pacing, one thing I noticed with the beginning is how there’s little connection between the opening scene with Vader, and then with R2 and 3PO approaching Jabba’s palace and the rest of the Tatooine sequence. With ANH and ESB, I think the audience can feel this plot baton being passed along from one scene to the next. Sure, we do cut back and forth between our heroes and our villains, but by that point their stories had already been connected in the narrative. I think something that helped this problem originally in ROTJ was the deleted scene of Vader trying to commune with Luke on Tatooine. I assume this scene was cut because they felt his introduction was better served during his entrance to Jabba’s palace, but I do think there are some benefits to restoring it. But obviously an issue with using the deleted scene is the quality not being super great. This wouldn’t be an issue as much for an edit using something like '83 Grindhouse or Puggo Grande (which I’m personally planning to do), but not might work as something that could be shared with other editors wanting to keep the material they use consistent.

I know some people have suggested putting the Emperor’s arrival at the beginning of the film and cutting the original opening, but you sort of end up with the same issue either way. Maybe this isn’t a big issue, but it is something that I was thinking about when rewatching the film recently.

Vladius said:

fanediting was a mistake

Agreed.

Your help would certainly be appreciated if you feel like it’s something you would enjoy doing! I don’t have strong opinions on how to approach it at the moment.

My ROTJ idea is probably too radical for a Saga edit (there are things I want to do differentiate it from Ady’s eventual edit), but there are some common things I want to address that could definitely be used for a Saga edit. My plan was to use sources that could be plugged into other people’s edits, but then I’ll further alter it for what I want to accomplish. I’ve been reading Rinzler’s making of book, and there’s definitely a lot I feel like is worth discussing.

I also could kick up my old Collaborative Saga thread and move this discussion to there.

Of course! Beyond your scope. Just meant for a Rey Nobody edit in general.

I kind of would like to see a hybrid between my version and Spence’s. Like the structure/pacing of Spence’s version, but with some of the dialogue choices from my version.

It would be optional, but it would be nice if there was just enough for a hint of a motivation for why Rey would even want to join the dark side.

Optional change: “I pushed you in the desert because I needed you to see it. The power of the dark side.”

Optional change: “You need power to protect them” or “You need it to keep them safe” put that line around where I have it.

Because as I have it now, the additional visions of her friends feel superfluous, and it makes what happens in the future sort of confusing. Do her friends die? Or does Rey kill Palpatine and save her friends? Are there two different visions? So just a line or two about needing power to protect her friends might be enough to establish that idea, especially if you change the earlier scene so Rey doesn’t use lightning and “kill” Chewie.

To set up that Kylo has something dramatic to reveal to Rey, I think you could just put back Kylo’s line “You don’t know the whole story” and then when it cuts to that close up of Kylo, he could say, “But I do” or “But I’ve seen it” or “But I know”

Anyway, those last two changes would be enough to set that idea up in Spence’s version of the scene.

SpenceEdit said:

DominicCobb said:

That works really well although I like RL ending the scene with “I have you now,” otherwise it feels a bit abrupt like oh okay we’re done now.

I actually stole that and added it in since I rendered this lol

Haha, that makes me happy. The first time I edited the scene, I also cut his line, “So that’s where you are” because I think it works better with him realizing in silence where she is, and it makes “I have you now” hit harder. Both ways work fine though.

Haven’t heard anything about usable audio from the Lego Skywalker Saga yet.

After working on some things for Spence’s edit, I went back and made a rough interpretation of the Force bond duel, I did shorten the scene slightly, but I tried to keep most of the scene intact, but with new dialogue and visions to help establish Rey’s fear of losing her friends. I used the theatrical as a basis, but a final version would use Ascendant. Also, the visions themselves are really rough, and are more placeholders than anything. I kind of just wanted to see if this idea would work.

Personally, I think I prefer Spence’s approach. I sat down and watched the first 30 minutes of ESB:R tonight, and I couldn’t help but compare the filmmaking language between that and TROS. I definitely am a proponent of the use of some visions when it comes to ST ideas, but I do think the less flashbacks/visions are used as a storytelling crutch, the better it would be for the movie.

Hal 9000 said:

RL, that Rey Nobody cut of Ascendant V2 is going to get made. And I want to see your ROTJ. If you just need someone to make the editing happen even, I’m sure I could find time here and there to help realize your ideas. I trust you implicitly and imagine there’s something there that ought to see the light of day if you feel that way about it.

Thanks for the support, Hal! The idea of a Saga edit is overwhelming, but then I remember that you and others have already put in much of the actual work already with your edits! Makes it less daunting!
Even if that idea never really comes to fruition, there are already many edits out there that make them a lot better. I think a Rey Nobody cut for Ascendant is just around the corner, and maybe I’ll share more about the ROTJ project soon! Thanks for your offer to help out!

EDIT: Also these LOTR gifs are making me want to rewatch those movies…

Now THAT is an interesting idea.

I still think it would be fun to sit down and have a bunch of us write out ideas for a big Saga edit, and how certain changes not only improve each film but ties into the whole Saga better. I think Eddie’s TPM thread began to touch on that.

But again, I think everyone has different opinions that would make it difficult to find compromises. For example, some people might want to keep the Chosen One and midichlorian stuff, while others would hate keeping it. Personally, I would really love to see a version of TFA with no Stakiller superweapon, but most people have come to accept it.

I think if you went in with a thesis statement or a few objectives for what this hypothetical Saga edit is meant to be, and every change somehow ties back into that thesis statement and its sub-points, then it might make it easier to choose which ideas stay and which ideas go. Because now that all nine films are out, we know what we have to work with and what the overarching story and themes can be. But after TROS, I think we were all like, “Damn, maybe the Saga has no meaning”. But now that it’s been two years, maybe some semblance of a solid conclusion can be pieced together.

But that’s a lot of work, which is why right now I think I would like to just focus on a Return of the Jedi edit that brings it closer quality-wise to the other two OT films, and leave it at that.

Idk. Maybe I should revive that old Collaborative Thread I made. Because despite everything I said, I love hearing your ideas and the ideas of other people on this site. Like that ROTS idea, I would love to talk about that some more. So even if we never make anything it is fun to talk about. At the very least it could be something that people could talk about and just see where it goes.

A gif so accurate my head is starting to hurt…

That is true. Though I wonder if you were going for a Rey Nobody edit that cut out the connection between her parents and Ochi and his ship, if you would remove or change the flashback of that same/similar ship flying away from Jakku.

NeverarGreat said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Tbh these things don’t really need to be explained, but this could be pointed to for those who needed that kind of question answered.

You’re right that they don’t need to be explained, and the people asking for explanations for that will also want explanations for how the Holdo maneuver only works in that one particular circumstance and who Snoke is where Maz got Luke’s lightsaber and a billion other useless bits of visual dictionary filler.

If Han Solo demands an answer to questions like this, then so do I.

I still think about your Ben Solo using Anakin’s lightsaber idea. ❤️

I get so exhausted thinking about ideas for the PT and ST. I just want to move on, but my brain can’t help but churn out ideas for them. Maybe it’s because I’ve loved Star Wars for so long it’s like the sunk cost fallacy. I’d like to help complete a solid Rey Nobody edit (which I think Spence has done with his edit), then do a fun Return of the Jedi edit, then move on from Star Wars. But honestly the idea of doing an entire Saga edit will always haunt me…

Honestly it’s kind of surprising no one has attempted something like this before (an extended edition of ESB, I mean). Definitely a worthwhile project.

You mentioned potentially needing help with sound design for scenes Bobson. I’d be happy to try and help with such work if you need any. Feel free to reach out if something comes up.

Wow, that is a really impressive attempt.

Okay, so not exclusively a Rey Nobody idea, but I think this idea would be helpful for any edit that wants to replace the Rey Palpatine stuff with Rey’s potential desire for power in order to save her friends.

Even in the theatrical version of the film, there’s this idea that Rey could potentially fall to the dark side. But we are never given a solid reason why she would beyond her bloodline, as well as Palpatine basically holding her friends hostage at the climax of the film. This idea may have been strengthened if we could have had a scene of Rey tapping into the dark side and seeing how it could help her accomplish her goals. Instead, the one time she really taps into the dark side in this film is when she thinks she has killed Chewie, which probably would make her more afraid of the dark side, rather than her being drawn to it.

Basically, I’m wondering how feasible it would be to change Chewie’s fakeout death and just have Rey lose the force tug-of-war. There would be a few benefits to this change.

1. We get one less fake-out death in this film.
2. Kylo can use this moment to tempt Rey. “I needed you to see it. The power of the dark side. You need power to keep them safe.” These lines can be used during the Force bond duel.
3. This feeds into Rey’s self-doubt and the potential what-if of her giving in.

Obviously this would require a few lines changes in later scenes regarding the heroes thinking Chewie’s dead, but there’s really just three moments, I think they can be trimmed after playing around with them a little.

The main thing would be to cut Rey blowing up the transport in a way that doesn’t feel obviously edited. I’ve kind of done a rough edit of this idea with some shot rearrangement, cropping and shot reversal. I think a new VFX shot of the transport flying away could help sell it, or at the very least some solid sound mixing.

Curious what people think.

Absolutely agree, but I still like this idea of reframing them more clearly as lost knowledge.

Very tiny and unimportant idea, but in TLJ, instead of Luke calling the Jedi books the “ancient Jedi texts”, have him call them the “lost Jedi texts”. Take ‘lost’ from his TROS line, “And the war will be lost.”

There’s a few reasons behind this extremely minor change. The biggest reason being that it implies these texts were lost knowledge even to the Jedi of the prequel era, which would help explain why powers like force healing, force projection, or information like the existence of Exegol were unknown to them. (Tbh these things don’t really need to be explained, but this could be pointed to for those who needed that kind of question answered.)

It also kind of implies that the Empire destroyed all known information regarding the Jedi Order, and the only information Luke could find was knowledge that was even unknown to the Jedi.

I think choosing to create a Sequel Trilogy kind of raises the question of what needs to be resolved that wasn’t resolved in the Original Trilogy. The OT only resolves the ideas of “balance” and the Chosen One retroactively, since those ideas didn’t exist in the OT.

Regardless of those issues, the Sequel Trilogy we got sort of had the right ingredients for an interesting question to resolve. Obviously one plot point could’ve/should’ve been focused on challenges of running a government after a revolution. But as far as the force side goes, I think you could have still had a Solo child fall to the dark side, and Luke go into exile searching for answers. Maybe Luke could discover how the Sith actually were an offshoot of the Jedi, and now he is seeing history repeat itself with his fallen student. The same mistake is being made, but how can he prevent balance being lost? And this could bring up now Luke’s new Jedi order would be different from the old. Anyway, a lot of interesting ideas that could’ve been played with.

Funny that you brought Red Leader up! Was just thinking of that scene while I was catching up on the thread.

This pre-PT timeline is something Kaminski frequently revisits in The Secret History of Star Wars as he’s working his way through the movies. Might be worth looking through again if someone already hasn’t mentioned his conclusions.

Hahaha, yeah total whoosh. 😂 I knew I read it on the threads somewhere recently, of course it was the OP. My bad.

To give George the benefit of the doubt, I’m assuming he meant that either A) his ST stormtroopers would look quite different from OT stormtroopers and/or B) the stormtroopers wouldn’t be the primary enemy grunts of the ST.

I have to say I did like this description of these stormtroopers. Imagine some remnant faction using stormtrooper that is basically pieced together over the years. Couldn’t been pretty smart a merchandising and costuming perspective. Think of how devoted the 501st are. Imagine if they introduced these “rebel” stormtroopers that uses bits and pieces from different kits, worn out and dirty, personalized. Could’ve been a cool contrast to how they were presented in the OT. You see the evolution of the stormtrooper between the PT and OT, and then we could’ve seen their regression between the OT and ST. The aesthetic potential is one thing edits can’t fix unfortunately.

Lol, love the idea of Christ as filmmaker. He would have a perfect vision, but he would be surrounded by Yes men and his work would be misinterpreted by generations to come.

SparkySywer is right though about Lucas’ statements on his sequel trilogy being contradictory. I recall even a single quote by him being somewhat contradictory.

Don’t have the quote on hand, but he basically says that there would be “no stormtroopers” in his sequels, but during that same answer he talks about how the stormtroopers would be like the Muhadjideen fighters, who wouldn’t give up and find their own little corners of the galaxy to bide their time in.

Also, I do think there is a bit of irony in how fiercely people will defend the idea of the Saga being the story of Anakin, and be offended by the idea that the ST undermines Anakin’s position as the Chosen One, when George himself said he was going to make Leia the Chosen One in his Sequel Trilogy. We treat his work as religious text when he’s making it up on the fly.

But I do think the fact that other people are expanding on his work does make it more like the mythologies that George likes Star Wars being compared to.

If you look at just the text (the films), and don’t take into account any outside material or interviews with the filmmakers, you could interpret Rey and Ben as the Chosen One. With the whole Dyad thing being “two that are One”.

This is really cool to see! What sources have you been pulling from so far?