RogueLeader

While I want to think of simpler ideas that just try to improve the movie as-is without major restructuring, I think I would still like to experiment with a major overhaul and then compare the two versions.

Without getting into it, the project I’ve thought about doing is a Revenge of the Jedi edit using Puggo Grande or 35mm Grindhouse as the base source. Any edits or vfx would feel period-accurate, and not CGI. I like the idea of it being a “lost workprint” or a film reel that somehow was brought over from an alternate history where ROTJ matured with its audience a little more. It would use some ideas like Luke having a blue saber, Luke and Leia not being siblings, etc. I feel like a heavy restructuring of the film would be appropriate for an edit like this. It wouldn’t try to be “better” than what we got, just different.

When I did a rough edit of ROTJ years ago that did this restructure, I had Luke say to Yoda, “Why didn’t you tell me?” The idea being that Yoda confirmed the fact offscreen sometime between the films, but now before Yoda dies, Luke is wanting to understand why he chose not to tell him.

I could see an edit skipping that by having Yoda say something like, “Unfortunate it is, that Vader told you.” It kinda of implies they’ve already talked about it, and Yoda is just lamenting how this complicates their final confrontation.

I also can see how one might wonder why Obi-Wan hasn’t appeared to Luke yet if he’s been on Dagobah all that time, but we know Obi-Wan can commune with Luke on different planets and in space, so I think that question is there either way you cut it.

Bobson Dugnutt said:

The Wampa scene is going to be a lot of work with blaster bolts, Wampa arms and other small bits of work. Should be fun.

Oh I’m sure. You can understand why they didn’t use these scenes, even beyond them narratively unnecessary, but it is a fun subplot! It would be nice if you could obscure the Wampa in more shadow and smoke, but I suppose you wouldn’t want to alter how the scene is presented too much from how it is.

It would be great if the blasters shots matched the look of original vfx. And what work are you referring to regarding the Wampa arms?

The color is beautiful in that Luke shot! I wasn’t sure if you would or be able to colorize that shot, but I’m so happy it worked out! Excellent work.

This might not work either, but to hammer in that idea that people don’t immediately die when they fall into the Sarlacc, what if during certain shots where we are close/can see the maw of the Sarlacc, we can hear the muffled cries of agony from the countless victims being digested inside? I don’t picture this as a major, in your face sound effect, just something that’s noticeable but subtle.

That’s a good approach too. But again, you’d have to explain how Boba knows they’ll be sent to the Sarlacc. If you don’t, then you’re left to infer just as much as you would be if you didn’t try to explain Boba’s plan to capture Luke in the first place.

You could just expand my initial exchange to give Boba a little more leeway.

Vader: Skywalker will come for his friend, Captain Solo. Bring him to me.

Boba: …If he survives.

Vader: I want him alive, bounty hunter, if possible…

Boba: As you wish.

I will admit that my ideas are a little biased toward Boba as a man of few words because I want both a Morrison or Wingreen option for his voice.

Obviously anyone can try and tackle this idea if they like it. But I do think I’m going to avoid using any modern footage for my own approach.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I appreciate and am enjoying everyone’s input so far!

That was a thought I had today as well. I think a lot of that could be assumed. Maybe Boba would’ve negotiated with Jabba about keeping Luke, but once he killed his Rancor he wouldn’t be able to convince Jabba to hand him over.

3PO’s line about them being slowly digested over 1000 years implies they won’t immediately die if they’re cast into the Sarlacc, so Boba might be planning to retrieve him later, like your idea explains. Perhaps 3PO’s line could be altered to be “slowly digested alive for over 1000 years.”

I think an important thing about the new Boba/Vader scene is that it acts as a segue between the opening scene and the rest of the Jabba sequence. But it doesn’t seem like Jabba decides to throw them into the Sarlacc until after Luke kills the Rancor. Perhaps you could have an additional communication scene between Vader and Boba before the Sarlacc sequence where the dialogue plays out as you have it.

You could use the same shots as the earlier scene, or Boba could be sitting in his parked ship communicating with a Vader hologram. You could use shots of Boba in his ship from ESB. You could even use the establishing shot of his ship in Jabba’s palace from the Book of Boba Fett (I personally would rather avoid using any modern shots, but you could probably rework an ESB matte painting of the ship to suit this idea.)

But like I said, I think you could deduce that Boba would either retrieve Luke from the pit, or that he knew Luke had something up his sleeve. I worry two Vader/Boba scenes might push it, but maybe it wouldn’t. That could be something we could test out. But I don’t think it makes sense for them to discuss the Sarlacc in the first scene. You could push their single convo to before the Sarlacc sequence, but like I said, the whole point of their first communication scene is to have the opening scene and the Jabba sequence flow together.

You also have to find appropriate Boba dialogue for this new idea. This is just my preference but I’d like to make any new Boba dialogue worth with the Jason Wingreen voice as well. I don’t know until I can experiment, but I might could get this line to work with both the Morrison and the Wingreen voice.

“Don’t worry. He’ll survive.”

Then when Vader’s hologram goes away, you could have Boba turn to look at a hologram/diagram of the Sarlacc.

Or maybe new Vader dialogue could be constructed to where he tells Boba to pull him out, since there is generally more Vader dialogue to work with, but I guess it serves Boba’s character better if an incapacitated Luke out of the Sarlacc is his idea. I also had considered a scene where Boba could say something to Jabba, but I don’t know if the shots of Boba leaning in close to Jabba are long enough to establish anything.

Anyway, not trying to be negative on the idea. I like the idea. I also want to be careful not to overthink/over-explain stuff. I do like that it could be it’s own scene that can be plugged in or out depending on people’s preferences. I also would prefer if any new shots fit the time period of production and not too modern, but that’s just me.

And that’s a good point on how this all affects the Emperor and Vader’s first interaction. I do have some thoughts I want to share later on Vader’s characterization and the characterization of others.

I’m kind of confused, Hal. You used 2011 because 19SE was easily the worst of three, or vice versa?

Your project would probably work well as a good standard, Hal. It would also be great to use Ady’s whenever he completes his, considering how much care he is putting into making ROTJ look better than it’s ever looked.

I could also see the benefit of using a 4K source for shots that may need to be cropped. For example, it would be great to use Boba’s head nod to Boushh when he tells Vader “As you wish” on the view screen, but I don’t know if the angle is right. The shot would need to be zoomed in slightly, but we probably could get away with it a little since it is on a view screen and there could be some quality/interference.

Okay. Well maybe others could chime in and provide their two cents, but I think what you’ve sent me will be great to start with!

I went back and skimmed through Ady’s post regarding the ROTJ source and you can tell he’s putting a lot of work to make the best template possible for Revisited with a combination of different sources. Seems like there’s an issue with every source.

That is actually something I haven’t figured out yet, what source to use. I’m really not sure what would be best. Would 4K83 be a good option?

arabian said:

RogueLeader said:

Official name now. Hahaha.

What I like about these ideas is that it not only benefits Boba’s characterization, but I think it could benefit the plot in general without really taking away from the move as-is. Even the scene change I suggested of Boba catching Han and Leia, you could actually Lee that whole scene, and just have Boba be the first person they see/hear before Jabba starts laughing and reveals himself. Boba’s presence there could just imply that Boba was the one who tipped off Jabba. You could even have Jabba say, “Good job, Fett!” since his first line in that scene isn’t subtitled, I believe.

But, it could still be trimmed for pacing if you wanted it to be.

Great ideas in this thread, and I LOVE the Han/Leia caught by Boba, cut to the cell. But something in here that you wrote got me thinking. What if we held on Boba for just a moment or two longer, and had a quick burst of Jabba’slaughter that echoes into that cut scene in the cell? That tells us that Boba tipped off Jabba, and Boba has basically sold Han/Leia in just a few seconds.

This would work well too arabian! Will have to play around with the capture scene. I’m gonna see about putting that Vader line together too. We also need to find a good image of Boba and a background to use for the view screen.

Nev, maybe you could share that background you made for the capture scene?

That is a great idea, Nev! And like you said, it works really any way you want to start the Tatooine sequence. And that especially would be a very natural way to flow into it.

Official name now. Hahaha.

What I like about these ideas is that it not only benefits Boba’s characterization, but I think it could benefit the plot in general without really taking away from the move as-is. Even the scene change I suggested of Boba catching Han and Leia, you could actually keep that whole scene, and just have Boba be the first person they see/hear before Jabba starts laughing and reveals himself. Boba’s presence there could just imply that Boba was the one who tipped off Jabba. You could even have Jabba say, “Good job, Fett!” since his first line in that scene isn’t subtitled, I believe.

But, it could still be trimmed for pacing if you wanted it to be.

EddieDean said:

Nailed it. Absolutely that.

Thanks, Eddie! Maybe this “Boba Overhaul” could be one of the major contributions that comes out of this focus month!

Omni said:

ROTJ also reuses TESB footage. The X-Wing shot right before we wipe to the Emperor’s arrival is from Empire.

You’re totally right, Omni! Completely forgot about that. Thanks for bringing that up!

Okay, crazy idea ahead.

My mind has been on the opening of ROTJ today, and the pros and cons of making various changes.

I guess it is not necessarily a problem, but when they originally cut the scene of Vader communing with Luke and Luke building his lightsaber in the Tatooine cave, they lost a natural segue from the Death Star/Vader plot to the Luke/Jabba’s Palace plot. I understand why they cut, because building up that mystery is part of the fun of the first act. Plus, it is cooler when Luke’s first appearance is his entrance into the palace, and then not seeing his brand new green lightsaber until it pops out of R2. Also, Vader’s “Luuuuuuuuke… Luuuuuuuke…” is a little cheesy, and even if you wanted to include it, the quality isn’t really that great. It is a cool scene, a really cool scene, but by including it, you may be giving away too much at the start of the film.

Other people have suggested putting the Emperor’s arrival at the head of the film. One positive to this is that it makes the beginning of the film a little more grandiose, and it establishes the battle for Luke’s soul, which is the heart of the film, in the very first scene. This scene would add some food for thought for the viewer as we see Luke’s darker side during Han’s rescue. On the other hand, you would lose a solid entrance for Vader himself, as well as building up to the Emperor showing up later in the film. “The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am” is a pretty cool line and it would kinda suck to lose it. Not to mention you would be cutting an entire scene out of the film.

So, I was thinking of alternate ways to better connect the opening scene with Vader to the rest of the first act Jabba sequence without removing that scene or ruining a lot of the mystery surrounding the rescue mission, and then this idea hit me:

Vader: The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.

Vader walks away from the shocked officer and exits the hangar. Vader continues down a hallway and onto an elevator. We wipe to to Vader in his meditation chamber. His chair spins around to the face the view screen on the wall. It flickers with static and then reveals the helmeted face of Boba Fett. It appears he is within or outside Jabba’s palace.

Vader: Skywalker will come for Captain Solo. I want him alive, bounty hunter.

Boba Fett: As you wish.

The view screen flickers off and we wipe to Tatooine, where we see the droids approaching the palace.

This idea accomplishes a few things. First, we create a stronger narrative through line between the first scene with Vader on the Death Star and the entire Jabba sequence. It doesn’t take away from any of the mystery of the first act because Luke coming to rescue Han is established in the opening crawl. Plus, we’re adding a brand new scene rather than deleting anything. I think this is a clearer way to establish that Boba Fett is trying to capture Luke for Vader than to try and insert vague Boba dialogue that might just stick out. Also, Vader and Boba communicating through view screens is reminiscent of how they communicated with each other in the Holiday Special, so it is a funny little parallel to that. I’m pretty sure you can construct these lines with existing dialogue. Obviously Boba already says “As you wish” in ESB (So you can use Morrison or Wingreen). I know Vader says all of those words at some point but we’d have to play around to see if we can get it to sound natural. I know at the very least we can get him to say, “I want Skywalker alive, bounty hunter.”

One downside would be reusing ESB footage, but ROTJ already uses ANH footage, and we could flip shots or something if necessary to make it feel a little different. Maybe it wouldn’t work but I think it would be worth playing around with. It doesn’t solve all of the issues with the first act, but it kills two birds with one stone by 1) better connecting the opening scene with the rest of the Jabba sequence, and 2) adding to the Boba Fett changes that we’ve already discussed.

Agreed. I mean Boba has been associated with Vader since his earliest appearances. And since he successfully tracked Han Solo and Leia, it makes sense in-universe that he would hire him again to keep on the lookout for Luke.

I don’t think Boba is important enough to explicitly mention in the crawl, but the idea that he is there anticipating that Luke will come to the rescue is interesting. Maybe give Boba new dialogue during the sail barge battle. He could tell Luke something like, “You’re lucky Vader wants you” or “You’re worth a fortune to Vader.”

Or during this new Boba scene he could say something about Vader wanting him. Something in the vein of, “I was expecting the Jedi. He’s worth a fortune to Vader.”

Either way, it is a good explanation for why he’s hanging around. Maybe he couldn’t convince Jabba to give Luke to him after he killed his Rancor, or maybe he knew Luke had something up his sleeve, but he took the first opportunity when hell broke loose to try and capture him.

Maybe when Boba first lands on the skiff, he could either say, something like, “Don’t move Jedi” or “Surrender”. Boba could try to get a shot off before Luke slices his blaster, or we could see that Boba tried to stun him but he either missed or Luke deflects it, but with how quick it is it might be hard to do that. The important thing is that we see Boba is trying to immobilize Luke rather than kill him.

Which works out well with what Boba tries to do next, which is tie him up. I was thinking it would be cool to add a yellow energy effect to the rope with some electric sounds to make it seem something that would be tough enough to restrain a Jedi, but that might be overkill.

And this idea works well with the idea of Boba shooting his hand, because that would clearly show that Boba is trying to immobilize Luke and take away his ability to fight back, rather than just shoot him in the back of the head and call it a day.

Either way, it does add a little more nuance to his presence in ROTJ and the entire first act. And while this idea is already there, this would make it clear that Boba’s greed was his downfall.

That does make sense.

One thing I like about this idea is that it can be used in isolation, whether or not you restructured anything else in the Jabba sequence. And if you did keep Leia bringing in Chewbacca as a fake bounty hunter, all of the looks Boba gives Leia/Boushh during that scene could then be seen as Boba being suspicious and seeing through her disguise. So that night, he anticipated a rescue attempt. Plus, using the shot of Boba lowering his weapon, but playing it in reverse essentially creates a new shot, so you probably could use both versions of the shot without the reuse being super noticeable.

And I can understand people who preferred to remove Boba from the movie, but if he’s gonna be there, this could be a good alternative to actually add to his presence in the movie. And his death will be even more satisfying since he is the one responsible for foiling their escape.

Okay, so it lines up when the shot is flipped in your mock-up, right?

I mean I don’t think it’s a big deal if it’s flipped. It was flipped in the theatrical version so I think keeping it flipped is fair game.

NeverarGreat said:

Damn, Nev. Now I really want to make this idea work just so we could use this shot. 😂

And some new Boba lines from Morrison could definitely be added. I’ve also considered paying for a VA who can do a decent Jason Wingreen impression.

NeverarGreat said:

As I mentioned before, it’s a neat idea but I simply can’t visualize how that would work with the available footage. Would be interested in seeing a mockup though 😃

Currently working on something else, so can’t spend too much time on audio, but here’s a gif of the idea.

As Han and Leia stand up, we hear the sound of SPURS. They stop, Leia looks up, and she sees Boba Fett aiming his gun at them. Leia is frozen in shock. HARD CUT to Han being thrown into a cell. He reunites with Chewie. Afterward, we cut back to Leia. The whole palace is now awake, and she is brought before Jabba.

Thanks for the font info, Faraday! I have a few different ideas for rewriting some of the alien dialogue, so this will be useful!

What do you mean “betrays”, Artan? In the original deleted scene, Jerjerrod does order to fire on Endor. I do think it would be cool to recut that scene so he never gives the order, though.

Very cool paja! This is right up my alley at the moment!

Luke’s saber training is a pretty cool little scene, so I think it would be worth messing around with!

With the bacta tank scene, without having to recolorize the scene, I wonder if you could make the shot blue or red, whichever color you make the bacta, to make it seem like the bacta tank is just bathing the room in whatever color it is. You could then just rotoscope and recolor a few different color lights in the shot, like R2’s lights, 3PO’s eyes, some of the lights on the back wall. Might not look right but just an idea.

Yeah, I feel like you could reconstruct Veer’s death scene with a lot of material that’s already in the movie. You could reuse a Snowspeeder model crashing/burning shot (or pull one from BTS material, key out the blue screen and find a new background), and the AT-AT animatics are almost exactly like the shots of the AT-AT Luke destroys, so you could reuse those shots (and flip/crop them maybe). Then the only shots you would need to recolor would be the shot of Veers/walker pilots raising their hands up, and maybe that quick shot of Hobbie. Both shots are pretty short. But I could understand not wanting to put that back in.

Okay yeah, I see what you mean. This might seem dumb, but what if you horizontally flipped the shot of Lobot crossing the hallway? It’s still the same set obviously, but the flipped geography could help differentiate it as a different level maybe.

Cool new shot of Boba!

A part of me feels like it would make sense to only use footage shot during the original production of the film, rather than Special Edition material, but that is up to you. If you went that route, I wonder if you should go ahead and use all of the extra Special Edition material.

Are you also planning to add in the extra Luke training scene, or extended Leia taking care of Luke scene during the Bespin escape?

I’m sure recolorizing the extended Han and Leia kiss scene was a pain the ass, but I’m curious if you’re planning to do the same to any other black and white scenes. To be honest I’m not completely familiar with all of the deleted ESB material.

Lookin’ pretty great, Bob!

Regarding the Lobot scene, I think you could potentially address the missing slug of footage by cutting to the footage from outside the door, but play it in reverse as if it is being opened by Lobot. I think it would fit since the door is already moving up when it cuts to that second shot of Lobot.

So the order would be:
• Lobot avoids the troops and starts walking toward door.
• Outside door, we see it begin to raise open (footage reversed)
• Cut back to Lobot, waiting for the door to raise all the way open.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but would this scene go in between Leia shooting a stormtrooper and then rushing into an elevator with more troopers on their tail, and then Leia and Co. coming around the corner with Lando trying to unlock that same door? I think the hard thing would be adjusting the music to make it fit in that spot, since the Escaping Cloud City track starts on Leia and Co getting on the elevator.

Maybe them getting onto the elevator could be reworked without music, and the music playing in the deleted scene could flow into “Escaping Cloud City” around when Lobot gets captured or when Lando peaks around the corner. You might have that figured out in your head already though.

It didn’t really need explaining, but one cool thing about the scene is it explaining why there are no troopers guarding the Falcon. And I wonder if Lando asked Lobot to get himself captured in order to help them escape, or if he told Lobot to escape with them, but they weren’t expecting troopers to be guarding the door.

I definitely think it is worth keeping the scene. I would say the more deleted scenes you can fit in the better! What is the continuity issue you’re referring to?

EDIT: Just a thought, but if you insert a shot to cover up the missing slug of footage, you may have to rework the audio for the scene anyway since the timing of the music would change as well.