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RogueLeader

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Post
#1268307
Topic
Star Wars Video Games - a general discussion thread
Time

First of all, which system do you guys use when playing D&D? 3.5? 5e? If you guys are on 5e, I would say they would probably be okay learning Fantasy Flight Game’s system for their Star Wars RPGs. If you guys are old school, you might want to consider checking out your other two main options.

The Saga Edition came out in the 00s, and it basically uses the d20 system. From what I understand it is similar to 3.5 or Pathfinder. If you’re really old school, you find some online resources for the old '87 West End Games Star Wars tabletop game, which was a d6 system.

But honestly, the new FFG system has the most resources, as far as books on planets, crime syndicates, ships, quests, yada yada. I personally just love reading through them. I think the thing that is intimidating for new players is the unique dice that come with the game. It doesn’t use traditional dice, rather there are different types of dice that have symbols on them, and those symbols either represent success/failure and advantage/disadvantage. Some people who are used to just the d20 system might not like it, but on the other hand I’ve heard long time D&D players say they like it because it encourages creativity within the game and keeps the focus on storytelling.

Here is a brief webcomic that illustrates the way the dice work. https://www.uptofourplayers.com/comic/edge-empire-rulez-pt-1/
Here is a video that goes over the system as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC-ch0Yckp4&feature=youtu.be&t=12m3s
I feel like once you get used to it, it actually simplifies things. I think it depends on the person though. There are definitely pros and cons to each version.

Another thing I’d recommend would be to check out some videos of people actually playing the FFG system so you can see it in action.

At first I felt having three different books felt a little gimmicky, but then I realized how much content was in each of them. So picking one up depends on what kind of game your group wants to play, either criminal underworld, rebels vs empire, or Jedi/Force stuff. What setting do you think you guys would go for?

Post
#1268244
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Exactly. We could generate a shot where there are two or three of them, then have a shot focusing on the guns charging, maybe firing, then cut to the shot of the Hosnian surface.

The only little gripe would be the intensity of the approaching laser of the Hosnian shot seems a lot larger than what the Dreadnought shoots, but if we cut it in a way were it seems all two/three dreadnoughts are firing together (either single rounds like in TLJ, or maybe a laser beam like the Death Star or the Battering Ram Canon instead) I think it would help justify that intensity.

And you wouldn’t necessarily need a shot of the laser impact the surface, because as the laser is approaching the camera and you hear the screams, you could hard cut back to Leia as she is reacting to the deaths.

Post
#1268184
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Also wanted to add, if you wanted to keep the weapon-aspect of Starkiller Base, you should be able to trim the Resistance briefing to remove any mention of the shields. You possibly could use a shot of 3PO, and possibly come up with some dialogue, where he says something regarding the map after they have discussed the Oscillator, like, “And the map?”. Han looks at Finn and says, “Kid?”, then Finn says something like, “I can do it… but I need to be there, on the planet.” Han, “We’ll get you there.”

So Finn, Han, Chewie and Black Squadron would sort of have two separate objectives. Once Han and Finn get the map (or don’t) Black Squadron comes in to blow Starkiller up.

I think I personally prefer the idea of it not being a weapon, but I think another challenge of removing the weapon aspect would be creating shots for the First Order fleet attacking Hosnian Prime. I think it is possible to reuse and manipulate certain shots from TLJ to make it work (maybe even include a shot of Captain Cannady saying “Fire” or something).
Not only that, but it also needs to feel cohesive with the everything going on at Starkiller Base. With Restructured, at least blowing up Starkiller is tied to saving the Republic. If they don’t destroy it in time, the Republic is destroyed.

In my suggested version, the fleet leaves to prepare for their invasion before the Resistance mission even starts, and their only objective is to find Luke. I think we could see the fleet leave Starkiller right after Hux gives his speech, but we wouldn’t see that fleet again until they arrive at Hosnian Prime to destroy it. Even then, if we cut to that right after Han dies, will it have the same impact?

You get what I’m saying? They are sort of disconnected. I mean, they want to get the map to find Luke because they think he can stop the First Order, but this makes the Resistance feel like they’re two steps behind rather than just one. On the other hand, another benefit of the Fleet idea is that it would explain why Starkiller feels so empty when the Resistance arrives. And you could argue they are still tied together, since Hux can still decide in this version that they must attack the Republic AFTER the Resistance gets the crucial piece of the map, a step closer to Skywalker. Maybe a shot of the Star Destroyer(s) in hyperspace could be generated to intercut during the Starkiller battle. Maybe one of the pilots could jokingly say, “Where is everybody?” I guess the key might be to have a moment or two that reminds the audience that the fleet is on its way, and to create tension. Possibly redubbing that Resistance alien officer to say the Republic is assembling their fleet to help.

If it really couldn’t work there, you could possibly move the Hosnian destruction back to the second act (but keep what Restructured has, where Kylo’s Star Destroyer is above Takodana.) The only downside is that you would lose that deleted scene with Kor Sella and Leia, losing more political context in the film.

I really think the First Order fleet destroying Hosnian Prime would be a really cool sequence though if we can just figure out the structure of it.

Also, if we see the Dreadnought’s destructive force in TFA, it makes the battle of D’Qar feel more important because we know what these things are capable of.

Post
#1268181
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Ah, you’re totally right! I forgot about that.
Here is the leaked shooting schedule for those interested. http://millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9790
Definitely more focus on “the sword”, is the map even mentioned? I know there were rumors that the map was somehow in the lightsaber as well. But maybe Leia thought she could use the lightsaber to find Luke through the Force. I guess sort of like a search hound can find people by the scent of their clothing? Hahaha.

EDIT: There is one item in the schedule that reads:
INT DAY - 337 - RESISTANCE BASE - MAP ROOM • C3PO, R2-D2, and BB-8 solve the puzzle together.
But I think that is the only hint that there might’ve been a map during this point in the process.

Also if you want avoid Episode IX Spoilers I would suggest not reading through that either.

Post
#1268177
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I actually went back to look at that leaked shooting schedule when I was thinking about this, there’s a lot of interesting stuff in there.

And that idea does make sense. I think you could probably do either version (they get the map, or they fail and Rey figures it out on her own), and it would only require a small amount of changes if you were to go the route I suggested. But I think to accomplish that, the focus of the movie really needs to be just on the map. The more I think about it, having Starkiller be a super weapon or star forge muddies the focus and makes the objective less clear. At least if you were to remove the briefing scene, which might be necessary if you want to make it clear to the audience that they’re going there to get the map. Having it be that they are going to get the map AND blow up their base might make their goals a little less focused, especially if we don’t spell out both goals for the audience, which we can’t really do without the additional dialogue. Just my initial thoughts though.

You would just need to replace any space shots of Starkiller with brand new shots (would probably be easier than painting it out I think).
Possibly a new shot or two of the Falcon and the X-Wings leaving Starkiller base, but you could still use the latter half of the shot of them jumping to hyperspace if you wanted.
The only other issue would be trying to hide the planet collapsing, during the duel. Though if you couldn’t, I don’t think it is a stretch that blowing up a tractor beam generator might have a pretty destructive effect, so it could just be the initial shockwave of it blowing up. I think it could work.

EDIT: Another little idea, during the battle there is a cutaway to the Resistance, and one of the alien officers says, “Two more X-wings down, that’s half our fleet destroyed.” That could be another possible location where dialogue related to the tractor beam could be placed.

Post
#1268175
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

To make that work with your idea, Nev, just have Phasma not give them the map, and change the screen graphics to reflect that. It plays out as is, but they still have to destroy the tractor beam to get off the planet, which we could remind the audience one or two times with the pilot VO or subtitles.

Post
#1268174
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

OutboundFlight, after I wrote my long post I went back to the first page of this thread and saw you suggest the very same thing, in a briefer way. I thought, “Outbound might like this!” Keep up with our conversations about it if you want because we could always use an extra perspective for problem solving!

The thing is, if we go the route of Starkiller just being a base, then the only thing we know they might be after would be the map.

Poe would tell Leia that Finn worked on the base, Finn tells Leia his friend was taken and that he has to get back to there. Leia asks him to tell them everything he knows. With an edit I mentioned earlier, Poe would know the First Order has the rest of the map already from his interrogation. When 3PO inserts BB-8’s portion of the map, he says it is incomplete and they don’t have enough information to find Luke.

The next scene is the R2 scene, where 3PO says he probably wouldn’t have the rest of the map in his back-up data (in this version he wouldn’t, but this scene would reiterate the objective). Next, Leia and Han talk, and a Resistance officer tells her the recon on the First Order base has come in (they know where the base is now).

The next scene is Rey’s interrogation, where Kylo could remind us again that they have the remaining portion of the map. If we cut the briefing scene, the next Resistance scene would be them getting ready for their mission, everybody running around and such. With no mention of a weapon or that they need to blow up anything, the audience is left to assume they are going to get the missing portion of the map, because that is what the movie has been telling us they are after.

When they hold Phasma hostage, we could simply change the screen to show a starfield map, and we would know that they are getting the map and they wouldn’t even have to say, “the map”!

And like I have mentioned before, we could rearrange some of the X-Wing dogfight shots when necessary, but we could add pilot VO that simply says, “We have to disable their tractor beam!” That’s really all we need to know about the “oscillator”. And the tractor beam has a stronger narrative purpose than just being a convenient weak spot of the weapon.

All of this is with the idea that Starkiller is just a normal planet.

Post
#1268164
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Either A) Phasma lowers the shields and also gives them the map. Maybe you could generate a shot of the screen where we see the shield lowering, and then later when she stands, we see the galaxy map on the screen, or vice versa.

Or B) there is no planetary shield, and Phasma just gives them the map (and possibly sounds the alarm). Black Squadron is either trying to destroy Starkiller (the weapon or the forge), or they are purely a distraction for Han & Finn. The oscillator could be turned into a tractor beam generator as well that they have to destroy.

EDIT: Han might say shield during the briefing scene. He mentions the shields having a fractional refresh rate during the hyperspace scene, but that can be cut, since later he says, “If we go any higher they’ll see us!”

Han during the the “that’s not how the Force works!” scene, he says “Then how do you know how to disable the shields?” That can be cut.

The only time it might be a problem is that when they get inside the base, he does say, “The shields?” and Finn in the same shot says, “I have an idea.” Either you could use some effect to make him not say anything. Or just cut that interaction and we can assume Finn figured something out. Or move that “I have an idea” line, to later. Or possibly cut to a different shot, maybe a cutaway to Chewie if possible, to remove that “shields” line. Removing any mention of the shields is possible I think.

Post
#1268163
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Haha, thanks. I was planning on being productive tonight but that didn’t happen!

Yeah, it definitely requires a lot more work, but the groundwork has already been laid down by Restructured, at least.

And if we went with the Star Forge idea, it would require a little less fx work (or an equal amount if you have to generate those Star Destroyer shots), but more dialogue regarding Starkiller could be kept. The Resistance Base discussion would still be heavily trimmed, but a little less so than if Starkiller was a regular planet.

If you just tried to cut out every instance of them saying “weapon”, “laser cannon”, “Death Star”, “gun”, you would be left with something usable.

If you kept their mission of destroying the base, their mission becomes a little more unfocused (find the map AND, ironically, destroy the planet). You could keep the layout the same, but just swap out Starkiller Weapon with Starkiller Factory, but that would defeat the purpose of wanting to keep it focused on Luke.

And you’re right, having crazy tech in Star Wars is definitely a part of its style, but the craziest thing Empire Strikes Back had was the Super Star Destroyer, and in this version TFA would still have the First Order Dreadnoughts.

I mean if you did the Star Forge idea, would you have Phasma lower the shields and give them the map? Or just have no planetary shields?

Like I said, I think making Starkiller a Star Forge alone would still be a worthy idea to try and implement. I would at least see if it is possible to have the third act still focus on the McGuffin if possible too though.

Post
#1268158
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

This is something that has been discussed multiple times in the past but I figured I would reiterate my thoughts on it on the radical edit ideas thread.

Of course one of the big issues with TFA is how it bears a lot of similarities with ANH. I think the existence of Starkiller Base had a big part to play in that comparison. It really is the one thing that I think made a lot of people begin to draw comparisons. I think Restructured comes as close as possible to alleviating that comparison by having the Resistance fail at destroying Starkiller Base before it destroys the New Republic.

Since TFA came out, there has been a lot of talk of try to make Starkiller Base a star forge-like device, or even a regular base for the sole reason of not wanting another super weapon. I have to admit that the idea of of Starkiller Base has grown on me over time, and it makes since for the First Order to want to emulate the Empire, but beyond not liking the repetitiveness of the super weapon plot device, I do think there is a genuine narrative reason why removing it would be an improvement.

Really, TFA is about finding Luke Skywalker. It is really what the first two acts of the film are all about. But as soon as Starkiller Base is introduced, that plot gets sidelined in order to focus on them wanting to blow Starkiller up. Not only that, but we get that weird plot-point of R2 having the other half of the map, but randomly waking up at the end of the movie and conveniently having it (which Restructured also alleviates to a degree).

While I think there would be a lot of problems to solve in order to make this work, I think a radical idea for TFA would be to make the third act be about sneaking onto Starkiller Base in order to get the second half of the map to Skywalker.

Let me try to outline some of the changes:

  • Of course, all shots of Starkiller Base would need to be altered to remove the giant hole in the planet, and instead make it look like a normal planet.

  • When Kylo is interrogating Poe, you could reuse dialogue from Rey’s interrogation so he tells Poe that they have the rest of the map, recovered from the archives of the Empire. By adding that, now Poe knows that the First Order has the rest of the map.

  • You would want to use Restructured’s version of the Takodana attack.

  • One of the hardest changes would be to restructure the Resistance base scene to remove them talking about Starkiller base being a weapon, or them wanting to blow it up. Possibly a solution could be found by redubbing Ackbar, 3PO or a random Resistance officer to give a nice, concise line regarding their objective, and make the scene much shorter.

  • Slightly trim Hux’s speech to remove “this fierce machine…upon which we stand”, just something like “we will bring an end to the Senate…” instead.

  • Also, replace the sequence of Starkiller draining the sun with a fleet of Star Destroyers orbiting Starkiller jumping into hyperspace in different directions, to imply they are preparing to invade the Republic.

  • When Han and Finn get to Starkiller base, Han jumps in low to avoid the scanners rather than jump through the planet’s shield. Later, they use Phasma to get the map instead of lowering the shields. Would just need to replace the graphics on screen. Using Nev’s idea, Phasma sounds the alarm.

  • Add offscreen Resistance dialogue to say something about Han and Finn being exposed, or the alarm being set off, which then leads to Poe and Black Squadron to attack Starkiller Base as an distraction for Han and Finn to escape.

  • During the dogfight, I was thinking some pilot chatter could be added to mention something about a tractor beam. This could be what the Oscillator is. (alternatively, the Oscillator could still be an oscillator, and Starkiller be like a factory and Black Squadron still wants to destroy it. Depends on if the ground destructions could be cut out or not.) If the Oscillator was a part of the tractor beam system, the shot of the X-Wing crashing into the ground in front of Han, Rey and Finn could be used somehow to imply this.

  • Because of this tractor beam, they can’t leave, which is why they still try to go destroy it with the explosives. [Interestingly, according to some early TFA leaks, Hux originally might have had some kind of tech on Starkiller base that could pull ships to the ground, so it could be fitting].

  • So when Kylo kills Han, instead of intercutting between that and Starkiller destroying Hosnian Prime, we cut to a scene of a fleet of Star Destroyers entering Hosnian Prime’s orbit. We could use footage from the D’Qar battle in TLJ to have multiple First Order dreadnoughts enter Hosnian’s orbit, then fire their cannons down onto the planet. We then could cut to the shot of Kor Sella as she watches those lasers come crashing down on them, destroying everything. This new sequence would be a combination of TFA footage, TLJ footage and some newly created shots. But structure-wise, it could play out similarly as it does in Restructured. After Han dies, cut to one half of Leia’s reaction shot, show First Order fleet destroying the New Republic, then cut to the latter half of Leia’s reaction shot, then back to Starkiller Base.

  • Also instead of the sun disappearing, you could just make clouds block it out, or even a Star Destroyer.

  • Chewie blows a hole in the building. Poe could fly in and blow it up but not exactly necessary. You would definitely probably want to avoid using Poe’s Death Star trench run at least. At some point you could add pilot VO about the tractor beam being disabled, or use a monitor shot from the First Order base to show the tractor beam being “drained” sort of like the shot of Obi-Wan turning it off in ANH. Some First Order VO could be used in this instance too.

  • Throughout the rest of the Starkiller sequence, you would want to remove any shots of the ground breaking apart. I don’t know how feasible this is, but two possible solutions. If it is impossible to completely remove, you could have Starkiller be some kind of Star Forge device that they still destroy, my only gripe with this is how it kind of contradicts thee idea that arms dealers are selling weapons to the First Order, but I guess those two things aren’t necessarily incompatible, if arms dealers are selling them certain types of weapons, and even designs/schematics. A second option would be to make Starkiller look like it has giant cracks and rivers of lava in certain areas on the wide shots of the planet. Maybe one could add lava to that shot of the mountain on Starkiller right before Rey’s interrogation scene (it would be sort of reminiscent to some TFA concept art of a snowy planet with lava on it).

[If making Starkiller a star forge was necessary, you could keep the planets appearance similar, and the draining the sun thing, and have shot of Star Destroyers coming out of it earlier in the film, like an idea Neverar had. It would also visually explain how the Empire was able to rebuild unnoticed, and you could still have the Resistance destroy it. But wanted to try to come up with a solution that keeps the focus just on the McGuffin (aka Luke and the map) as much as possible.]

  • Okay, so Rey beats Kylo, and when Chewie rescues them on the Falcon and they leave, one or two new shots would need to be made of them escaping Starkiller Base, since you can’t use the shots of the planet collapsing. You could still use the shot of the Falcon and the X-Wings jumping into hyperspace.

  • Once they get back to the Resistance Base, have some Resistance VO say that Finn has the map as they’re carting him away. (Since it would be hard to create inserts of a hand holding a thing that has the map on it, we would have to stick with the implication that Finn got it when Phasma pulled it up. Then we would hear a Resistance tech or pilot confirm that he has it once we’re back at the base.)

  • BB-8 could tell R2 the good news through beeps, which makes R2 wake up with excitement. Also, we would need to alter 3PO’s dialogue to tell R2 they found the map or that they can find Luke.

There probably would be a lot of smaller changes throughout as well, but I do think it such an edit could be possible. The big thing would be that there would need to be multiple shots with brand new effects, but by by removing Starkiller base and focusing on Luke, I think The Force Awakens would be a lot stronger than it already is. I think if enough people wanted to see this change and we figured out how each necessary change could be executed, then doing the fx work becomes pretty straightforward, and could be something that just gets knocked out over time.

Would be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this.

Post
#1268142
Topic
The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!)
Time

Hmm, I feel like this isn’t very helpful, but it doesn’t really feel dreamy enough. I dunno, maybe some distortion to the dream itself. I’m also not sure about the voice over used in the dream. You used Unkar dialogue from the deleted scene, right? That was a good idea actually!

I’m conflicted on it. A part of me feels like it is too long, but maybe it actually just is too short of a scene to put in between those two First Order scenes and kind of screws with the pacing. Didn’t you originally have an idea to have her dream about walking up the island and actually seeing Luke?

I really don’t know if I would prefer this or not, but what if the dream didn’t have VO and it was bits of pieces of the end of TFA, with some kind of added dreamy effect, like a edge blur vignette, or a regrade, or edited in a very disjointed, illogical way. Maybe quick flashes of different things, like very quick flashes of the books inside the tree, the cave, the Prime Jedi, even the tree burning. I mean very quick flashes.

If you don’t have her reaching Luke at the end of the film, and end it on her jumping to hyperspace, when we catch back up with Rey in TLJ, you could place the last scene of TFA here, but possibly recut to not feel like shots are completely repeated, and you could combine it with the first scene of Rey in TLJ. I did find a cool edit of the last TFA scene where they replaced the audio with ambience that could be a useful basis for some rescoring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIVpbS18oJQ
Maybe you could try to regrade to make it appear night during the dream? That would help differentiate it.

With the previous “Reydream”, it just sort of feels like a tease, but that is okay because we move on from it quickly, it is just foreshadowing. As you have it now in “Reydream 2” it feels weird because we spend a lot of time on the dream but we don’t know what it means. But if we see a glimpse of the back of Luke, or a part of him, then the audience would kind of get why it is relevant, even though Rey won’t know who that is. It also allows the dream to be a bit longer and meaty, so the scene actually feels like a scene.

This is just some random thoughts though and I don’t even know if I would like it. What you have now is a solid basis for a short version, and maybe you could just try to experiment with that some more and find a vibe that works.

Also, wanted to share another video with you of someone who added flashes of visions to Luke standing over Ben. While I don’t know if that is really necessary, I like the way he quickly flashes to those other shots, in a quick, almost subliminal way, that I think would fit with the interrogation scene. It could with this dream sequence too. Sometimes I think brief flashes work better than staying on a shot for a long period of time, even if you wanted to use a longer shot, you could cut the shot up in a way where it zoom in, zoom out quickly and feel very disorienting. Just some random ideas though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XR-Jf0u6I0&t=81s

Post
#1267880
Topic
Star Wars: The Coaxium Heist (COMPLETED)
Time

While a lot of people seem to be more focused on just brightening the film, your approach on the removal of the blue tint is really interesting. I didn’t notice just how “blue” the grade is until I looked at your comparison images.

So you don’t really have any intention of increasing saturation or contrast, right? Just color correcting generally, possibly brightening a smudge? I like it. I think what you’re saying about the bleak grey skies comes across. Some of those shots, especially the train heist, feels on the edge of total desaturation/black & white. Which I like, because it kind of makes the existing color stand out more than it did with the blue tint thrown over everything.

I guess the movie being bleak vs the colors popping really depends on taste. I think what you’ve done emphasizes the mood of that harsh reality, the life of crime under the brutal Imperial regime. Whereas a LUT that made the colors pop more might be leaning into that adventure film mood more.

Even if you didn’t want the movie to be brighter or more colorful per se, I could see others using your grade as a solid basis since you have basically color corrected the film. I’m also not a color expert so this all just my random thoughts.

Post
#1267826
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Pretty cool! Those blast marks on the wall look good. I see you’re doing a lot of stuff with AOTC atm. What other things are you trying to tackle?

Also, regarding the Jedi meeting with the Chancellor, I don’t think it necessarily has to be the second scene of the film, but if you were to move it where you propose, I think you would need to cut away before Padme enters that scene.

Post
#1267769
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I think the big question it comes down to is how IX will conclude and tie into the saga thematically. If Ben dies evil, what will the concluding message be for the overall saga? What if Ben is redeemed and lives?

And if he is redeemed, how will that be executed? I think we immediately think of Vader’s redemption and just seeing it as a repeat of that, but I Ben being redeemed doesn’t necessarily mean it will play out the same way it did for Vader.

Post
#1267709
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

That’s interesting you mention that, because I think that was a fundamental issue with early drafts of TFA. As soon as Luke is back in the story, the new characters suddenly felt like supporting characters. Michael Ardnt really struggled with that, and I think it was Kiri Hart who came up with the idea to make finding Luke the main goal of the first movie.

And while I personally think having Luke become one with the Force at the end of TLJ was not only thematically appropriate, but it also might’ve been sort of necessary to give the new heroes the spotlight for the last act of the trilogy. Yeah, I’m sure Luke will have a presence as a Force ghost to guide Rey, but Rey, Finn, Poe, Rose, they will be driving the story, along with Kylo Ren as the main antagonist for them to face, now that Snoke is gone.

And of course, it is heartbreaking that Carrie couldn’t film her last performance as Leia, but it is likely that Leia still would’ve been behind the scenes mostly, and I feel they will be able to fulfill whatever necessary role she was meant to fill with the extra footage they have. They seemed pretty confident that they have enough material (and aren’t they lucky they decided to cut a lot of her TFA scenes?). As long as they have enough for a few moments with the Resistance, and maybe one moment related to Ben/Kylo Ren, I think that will be enough. And by her playing a supporting role, it gives us more time for the young heroes to drive the story and be on screen together for the final film.

EDIT: Yeah, I’m definitely interested to see what happens with Hux. Either Hux tries to betray Kylo (which could be used to instigate Kylo’s turn), or Hux gets disposed of by Kylo, other First Order officers (or Stormtroopers turning against him), or just something totally random. I’d be surprised if he was just simply killed by the Resistance. I guess we’ll see though!

Post
#1267696
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Cool perspective! I definitely agree that if Kylo Ren is not going to be redeemed, then that is the way they’ll go.

I think Kylo Ren and Rey’s dynamic from the perspective of “bad boy that the girl thinks she can change” has been brought up a lot. Some people are really into Reylo while others see it as problematic.

If Kylo is not going to be redeemed in IX, then I agree with you that Rey will have to come to terms with that.

I think there is an approach to it though they might take if Ben will be redeemed. I personally think this is the route they’ll go since redemption, love and family are the big themes of the franchise, but I could be wrong, who knows!
I definitely think Rey was in that “I can change him” mindset in TLJ. She took a big risk thinking that she would be enough to change him, but that didn’t happen. In the end when Rey closed the doors on him, though, I think that is Rey deciding that she can’t be the one to change him herself, and if he is going to change, he must do it on his own. Which I think is a healthier message, you can try to help people, but after a certain point those people also have to make the effort to change themselves as well.

At the end of TLJ, Kylo Ren was the Supreme Leader of the First Order, and by the time IX roles around, he, Ben Solo, will practically be the Emperor of the Galaxy. Kind of cool to think about in the context of the whole saga. But ironically, he doesn’t seem very satisfied. He has everything he thought he wanted, but a piece of him knows that he is completely alone. Because of this, I think Ben is going to regress into his Kylo Ren persona even more, and really project pure evil because that’s all he has left.

I think inside of him he will be desperately clinging onto that persona, though. I could see this bothering some people who feel he is beyond redemption, because the trailers and first act of the movie will portray a pure evil Kylo.

But I’ll admit, I don’t really know how Rey will feel about Kylo in IX. I definitely think she’ll be conflicted, possibly stuck in between duty, philosophy, and possibly love.

At the end of the TLJ commentary, Rian talks about how he wanted to set them up for IX and he says that “they’re enemies, but complicated enemies.”

It is definitely a challenging struggle for the writers. Rey, as a protagonist, needs to have an influence on the direction of the narrative, but also Kylo’s change, if it happens, needs to be on his own to a degree.

I really don’t know what will happen and that is really exciting to me!

I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with me, but if the Sequel Trilogy had been released as 90s or 00s EU novels, where “plot holes” and internal characterization can be explored in more detail, combined with people’s own imaginations, I think fans would’ve eaten them up. I would have as a kid, at least. I can picture myself lying in bed reading the books or listening to audiotapes, freaking out over Han’s death, or Rey pulling the lightsaber in the forest. Kylo killing Snoke, Luke’s Force projection. Makes me want to be a kid again!

EDIT: fmalover, I totally see your POV, and it does worry me that JJ won’t conclude certain character arcs properly, but hopefully he’ll surprise us, or they already have the broad strokes mapped out, or Chris Terrio will help keep it interesting.