RogueLeader

No, that’s okay! I get what you’re saying. I definitely agree that Rey isn’t perfectly written, I think Lessons From the Screenplay explains it well in his video about TFA, I’m just prone to defending her because I think she (and the ST in general) is getting way too much flak than it deserves. But I know it comes from a place of passion, and fans just want these movies to be as good as possible.

A part of me always wonders what if Iger hadn’t felt rushed to get Episode VII out by 2015, maybe given Michael Ardnt the time he needed to finish his script, and maybe have 3 years of production between each film rather than just 2.
But, asking “what if’s” is pretty futile, because even George with complete creative control over the prequels still couldn’t make perfect movies, and I’m fairly happy with what we’ve gotten so far. And the movies that most fans consider to be near perfect (the OT, especially ANH and ESB, were probably the most constrained out of any of the films).

That is another interesting point. I have some theories about IX, but I still don’t know what to completely expect. For a lot of people, it seems this not-knowing was translated into apathy for Episode IX, but to me it was the complete opposite. People couldn’t see where the story could go, but to me that meant that JJ could go anywhere with the final film. He could set it a day after 8, a year after 8, five/ten years after 8. While he obviously has to conclude character arcs, he really has a sandbox to play in when it comes to how he wants to depict it. That is really exciting to me.

I don’t think there is only way to handle our main characters in IX, I do have some thoughts on how they can be handled. I think it would be interesting if Rey, who has been shown to be aggressive and not above killing, has to resolve issues through nonviolence like true Jedi should. I think for her, that would be a bigger challenge than just brute forcing her way through obstacles, especially when you’re in the middle of a war.

It would also be an interesting inverse to Luke, who killed people left and right in Return of the Jedi. And maybe I’m reading too much into it, but my mind goes to the scene where Rey is eagerly practicing with the lightsaber, and her lack of control causes her to cut through that rock and almost kill those caretakers. Yeah, it is a funny moment, but Luke clearly wasn’t amused by it. To me, that little moment was saying something about violence begetting violence, which carries over to Luke momentarily considering a violent solution to the dark future of Ben Solo, and it only causing the violence Luke’s foresaw to actually happen.

Anyway, not saying that has to happen, but it would be an interesting direction to take Rey, who was been portrayed as someone who is quick to anger. But I’m excited about not knowing what is going to happen.

Nev, that is an interesting thought! Are you kind of suggesting that the “will” that the Force might have might be related to past Jedi who have become one with the Force? That’s a really interesting idea.

It is almost paradoxical. If Jedi are meant to follow the will of the Force, but try to guide its will by becoming one with it, then are they not just going with the flow of the Force like they were to begin with?
I do think the Force has an ebb and flow, and when people try to bend the Force to their own selfish will, the Force reacts, but it does seem to be demonstrated that Force ghosts can enact the Force’s will in more direct ways, like communicating directly to certain people, so maybe they are do what the Force wills, just in clearer ways.

ShoppingMaul, and this question is open to anyone, what are ways that you would like for them to approach Rey’s character in IX that would help address the issues you’ve had with her in 7 & 8?

I don’t think the Force being dynamic doesn’t mean it is sentient. I think the Force awakening or being diminished can be compared to things like climate change. Even gravity or electricity can act differently when massive or conductive objects come into play. The Force changing doesn’t mean it has a will of its own, necessarily, even though the prequel Jedi seem to think so.

Totally agree. It would’ve been a little interaction that would help humanize stormtroopers more. I think that whole interaction would have been fine if that Stormtrooper just had an average American accent. I think redubbing him is totally doable with a decent voice actor. I think the butt slap could be cut too, but some people might like that.

While I do think Rey is suffering from emotional costs because of her growing abilities, I also believe there is this assumption that the Force is a static, unchanging thing, despite the idea the Force has changed or is changing in this new trilogy that is different than how it was in the previous trilogies. To me, this makes it unfair to even compare the protagonists on the basis of Force powers when the Force “awakening” is a plot point in these new movies.

Hmm, I think a possibly solution lies in the shots of Mace and Yoda speaking to Obi’s hologram. The music is pretty light, so you might could get away with some slight rearranging. And Mace and Yoda say things like, “No.” and “Don’t assume.” that could be used in different ways. And like I mentioned before, having the Masters cut Obi off mid-sentence night help illustrate some frustration.

I think the JAT could be used in that sequence better, since those lines could be distorted through the hologram slightly, but I still think it would be hard to make it look/sound natural though.

Someone made a good point about how Kylo may have chosen to stay shirtless because he liked the way she reacted to it. She was having to face the fact that he is a man, and not just a monster like she kept saying, similar to the TFA interrogation when Rey called him a creature in a mask, with Kylo responding by unmasking himself. It humanizes Kylo and makes him more sympathetic to Rey.

Agreed. Although as far as I’m aware that is what a lot of the contributors on this site have been asking for over the past 10+ years. We can still have a “special” edition, but have the original theatrical version alongside it. And I do think this is a great compromise, because you will always have the original versions to enjoy, but you also can have some updated versions that fit in more, effects-wise, with the other movies in the saga as well.

Though like Zerome said, I also think that the fan editing/preservation community are much more capable to create a solid theatrical preservation and a “modern” special edition than anything official. The 97 SE, the GOUT and even the 2011 edition all have issues that have been discussed ad nauseam here. Maybe under new leadership that would be different, but I am not holding my breath.

I mean, think of what we already have. For the theatrical version, we have Harmy’s Despecialized Editions and the various 4K projects. And as far as modern Special Editions go, we have Ady’s Revisited Trilogy as well as Hal’s custom Special Editions. There’s also no telling what other projects will pop up in the future.

But I suppose these will only get so much attention and the general Star Wars audience might not ever know about it, so I agree it would be nice for them to release something officially.

I think it does seem like at least there a few different options for how you might want to rearrange the dialogue. I have to agree and say as long as the whole mention of Snoke is removed, it will feel a lot better.

Also, while the story does seem to make it out that it is all Snoke’s fault, I think it makes Leia seem more mature if she doesn’t just immediately blame Snoke for corrupting Ben, and that she partly blames herself for what has happened to him. And so does Han, I think.

If Han still says “Snoke only wants to use you for your power”, it still shows that Han and Leia were aware of Snoke, so I don’t think removing that earlier mention of him really hurts anything.

Yeah, it also doesn’t really work for me either. I also had been wondering if there was a way to implement Obi’s frustration with the Council. This was a good idea, but I don’t know if it works or not.

I don’t know if there were any other options, like trimming dialogue to have Mace cut him off or something like that. I dunno. JAT’s voice just doesn’t match Ewan’s enough in my opinion.

If you readsome of the comments, it not only looks like R4-D4, but it is actually R4-D4, based off the burn mark where the restraining bolt used to be.

Very good reply! I can agree with that. I guess I mean that the training is more like teaching someone to meditate rather than teaching someone karate, if that makes sense.

Force ability, in my opinion, shouldn’t be equated to physical training, like you would for a martial art, or for learning the piano.

The Force is based entirely on faith. The various powers have nothing to do with technique. It is all about believing in the Force, believe in it and its will, and also importantly, believing in yourself, because we all are a part of the Force.

It’s about believing that we are more than just “crude matter”. Since these films are meant to be fairy tales for children, then the message of believing in yourself is, to me, is a very important one. That was the same message the OT gave us.

Also, I personally don’t think the dark side should be interpreted as the evil side. The light and dark side are like yin and yang, which aren’t inherently good or evil. The Sith use the negative aspects of the dark side, and their own dark side, to bend the Force to their will unnaturally, rather than allowing themselves to let the Force guide them through life.

Those negative qualities that make people do bad things can be found in the dark side. Those emotions and qualities aren’t always inherently evil, but consuming oneself in those emotions can lead to imbalance.

Not a perfect description, but check out this article about the differentiate between yin and yang & good and evil. Then you can try to apply it to the Force.
http://www.jonasyunus.net/blog-the_yin_yang_of_good_evil

How about when Han runs down the hall chasing the Stormtroopers? It could be very brief cameo of that motif, and feel motivated since he’s acting all “heroic”. Then when he runs away the music could just go back to the original score.

I would be interested in the Traditional Mandarin subtitles whenever those are completed. I agree that those additional changes are well worth the wait, no rush at all.
When you say improvements, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean improvements as far as presentation, or improvements as in more accurate translations? I’m sure you have talked about this before in the past, so I apologize if I am asking a regular question.

Yeah, when I read your idea on the caretaker thread I didn’t think it would be able to work, but the way it looks in your test, it definitely feels like it could take place literally five minutes after Rey plays with the lightsaber (and it makes more sense than it suddenly being sunset). This also makes think trying to make the color grade of the beginning of TLJ look less yellow and bright, and make it more like the end of TFA, would work better than trying to make the end of TFA look more like the beginning of TLJ, if that makes sense. It’s like trying to inject more sunlight into a scene works less than if you tried to make it less sunny. Just a thought.

I would personally leave the training stuff as is, for the reasons Nev mentioned earlier, but I am really curious to see if that caretaker restructure would work. Like you said in the caretaker thread, it might not work for pacing reasons, but regardless of that I think it would be a great approach for your edit, since no one has really tried that idea yet (since people either plop it right where it was meant to be, or they remove the caretaker stuff altogether like Hal does). It could be one of things that differentiates your edit from the the others, since it is starting to feel like it will eventually be the most edited Star Wars movie outside of The Phantom Menace.

So when you do that, will everything from the Caretaker scene to Rey leaving the island all be together, or will you cut away again at some point? I really struggle with understanding pacing and when it feels right to cut. I would be curious if anyone had their own perspective on that.

I’ve been hearing one year, but even then I agree with Zach that a relationship could have just developed in between films. Even six months would be enough time to justify it. Also, doesn’t Poppa’s version keep Finn covering Rose on the Falcon? I think that alone hints that Finn might have feelings for her.

I think the bigger concern is if the “not fighting what we hate/saving what we love” will be a lesson Finn utilizes in IX. Though even then you could argue it is something he just comes to learn from Rose overtime, unless they directly refer to it I suppose.

In retrospect, I think the easiest way to solve the issue with that scene is to use darthrush’s idea (that Poppa built off of) and have it seem like Finn is about to get shot, but then Rose saves him from the oncoming laser and it continues as is. You wouldn’t be drastically altering what happens or any choices a character makes, but it makes it clearer that Finn was not going to stop the cannon. Because I think that is sort of the main reason people have a problem with the whole scene, because it wasn’t as clear as it could’ve been that Finn was not going to disable the cannon. So everything else Rose does, the line, the kiss, seems selfish and a “dumb”, as the stranger I sat next to in my second viewing called it, because not everyone felt Finn was going to 100% fail. But if an AT-AT shoots right at him, and we start thinking he is going to die for nothing, and Rose pushes him out of the way at the last minute, then it would be clearer that Finn was going to fail, and you wouldn’t be drastically changing what happened.

I think the solution Poppa has in Rekindled now, though, is really the best version for people who just didn’t like Rose’s speech and the kiss, regardless. If Poppa doesn’t like that moment, then I think he can stick with it as-is without having to worry about IX contradicting it. But if that line might be important in IX, then I think it might be something worth considering down the road. I think Poppa’s version is good, but it would be something I would like to see a future editor try out down the road.

AbramPT, I do see your point about Phasma too. For those who didn’t like Phasma, they probably won’t care and probably just be happy that she is gone. And if she does show up, then it still works because she could’ve just gotten extremely wounded by all the destruction in the hangar.

I agree with Nev, but the color correction you did to the conversation inside the temple cave looks pretty good in my opinion. I think if you wanted to separate that scene with the caretaker deleted scene (for the reasons you’ve previously mentioned), you could use that regrade and then start by removing the sunset establishing shot of the island that is in between the Rey lightsaber scene and when Luke’s VO “Lesson Two” starts. Just have Luke’s VO start over that shot of Rey instead.

Then whenever you cut back to Ach-To for the caretaker scene, you could start with that sunset island establishing shot and use the audio from where Rey initially hears of the “raiders” over it. So you could go from that establishing shot, straight to the shot of Rey looking outside at the raiders approaching the village.

From a Watsonian perspective, maybe they have developed better methods to check if anything on the ship is transmitting a signal. So when they jumped to lightspeed, they scanned the ship and found nothing was transmitting a signal out. I also could imagine the Resistance/Republic developing some kind of device that can jam outgoing signals that would render physical tracking devices useless.

I think this is one of those things that we possibly overthink, but I think it is important to rationalize everything in a story if one plans on taking part in telling that story (in this case as fan editors). But I feel like this kind of thing could be explained somewhat in a novelization or something.

Sometimes when I think about this plot, it does kind of make me wish that the plot revolved around a possible spy aboard the Raddus. Rose thinks its Finn, Poe thinks its Holdo, etc etc.
It could’ve gone into how First Order spies have infiltrated the New Republic and how the Resistance was formed to avoid that, but now they’re compromised in their most desperate moment. And we could see the gang try to find the real spy while the Resistance falls apart without Leia, their symbol of hope, to keep them together.

I also could picture some pretty cool ships sets they could’ve built too have adventures all throughout this giant cruiser as they look for the spy. But maybe the whole side plot just being on the Raddus would’ve been boring. You would also have to figure out a different way for Finn to learn to fight for a cause he believes in.

While it is fun to imagine, and I think I would eventually love to see a novel with that kind of plot, I’m kind of thinking/hoping that IX will add importance to the Canto Bight sequence if they resolve the issues it presented, like how greed feeds the cycle of war, helping over hurting, etc. If that, or at least how they’ll end the war, doesn’t get addressed, or the lessons Finn learned from there don’t carry over, it won’t hold as much value as it could have.

The one thing I do wish, is that Canto Bight was physically closer to Crait, because if you look at one of the updated galaxy maps, it is like halfway across the galaxy. I know travel time in hyperspace has never been very consistent, and some hyperdrives are faster than others, but it does push it a little. At least it seems like they were on Canto Bight for only like two or three hours, tops, and the ship DJ stole to get back looked really fast.

To add to what Nev says, TLJ makes it clear that whatever technology they’re using to follow the Resistance is new.

When the First Order shows up to their rendezvous point, Leia comes to the conclusion that they tracked them through lightspeed. Finn says, “That’s impossible.” So clearly this must be state-of-art stuff.

Rose mentions that it is a new tech, but the principle must be the same as “active tracker”, which is how they figure out a way to potential disable it. I’m not really sure what active tracking means, though, or why only the lead ship would use it. The wookipedia article doesn’t clarify.

It does mention some of the “science” behind the tech though: Part of the technology used in the hyperspace tracker was a complex static hyperspace field generator, which enveloped arrays of databanks and computers in a localized hyperspace field that accelerated their calculation speeds to unimaginable rates.

That description does remind me of an idea I had about the reason the Holdo maneuver was so effective was because a part of the Supremecy was actually inside hyperspace in order for the tech to work, sort of like a periscope on a submarine. And hyperspace collisions can be extremely catastrophic, which is what makes this particular situation extraordinary.

I personally don’t think an explanation like that is necessary in the film. I also think the Raddus’ advanced shields is a good answer as well. You know, just something to quell the people that had questions like “why don’t they do this more often”. If it something made this situation unique, it would help explain that.

The “science” explanation also makes me think that hyperspace tracking basically utilized a hyper-quantum computer to either do two things, 1) slice into a ship’s navi-computer to determine where their next destination is, or 2) take the raw data of the ship’s trajectory to determine their destination out of thousands of variables with very high accuracy. A third possibility is that if each ship gives off their own hyperspace footprint or data shadow, that if the tracker can analyze that signature, it can then look into hyperspace and be able to follow it like bread crumbs. Maybe it is similar to the explanation they gave about the damaged Tantive IV leaking something, which allowed Vader to know where they went.

Whatever the mumbo jumbo answer is, it has to function in a way where the First Order can pursue them only moments after their target jumps to hyperspace, since Finn seems to imply that if they were to jump again that the First Order would arrive in “30 seconds”, making the effort pointless.

For my earlier suggestion about the loading bar for the hyperspace tracker, the explanation would have to fit with the idea that they would need to analyze something about their ship, either the navi-computer data itself, or study a ship’s “digital footprint” or whatever, and that process takes a few minutes. It also does give the technology a weakness that could be exploited in the future by the Resistance (if the First Order shows up, retreat before they can lock on to your ship’s signature, or everyone jump in different directions, etc).

I definitely think it is an improvement. To me, I would kind of compare Young’s cinematography on Solo with some of Gordon Willis’ work, the cinematographer of The Godfather (who was also known as the prince of darkness). I know it seems odd to compare a cinematic masterpiece like The Godfather with Solo, but they both rely heavily on diegetic light to inform the lighting on set, and both films result in a lot of shadows. Also, both films deal with the underworld of their respective universes, and Lucas and Coppola were close companions and collaborators (with Lucas even filming some insert shots for The Godfather as well as doing some uncredited editing work), so I think the comparisons are appropriate.

But, if you actually watch The Godfather, yes the film is dark, but the parts of the scene that are exposed to the light are clear. With Solo, it feels like the Colorist put some kind of filter on that made the movie darker in the worst way possible. Yes, you want the darks to be dark, but you want to have what is lit to actually stand out, so you have a decent contrast. Good job one what you’ve done so far.

One thing that I have been considering for The Last Jedi that I have mentioned before is the idea of showing Hux’s Star Destroyer “lock on” to the Raddus during the battle in order to track it through hyperspace. We never really know how exactly they are tracking them through hyperspace, maybe they are somehow tracking some kind of “footprint” or “shadow” the Raddus is leaving through hyperspace, or maybe they have sliced into the Raddus’ navigational computer.

Regardless, I think if we saw an image of the Raddus on one of their computer monitors, as well as some kind of loading bar (to reflect the loading bar of Poe’s booster engine), it would add a few things to the story. For one, we wouldn’t know what the loading bar was for until later in the film, so when we hear about Hux having them “tied at the end of a string” and discovering they have tracked them through hyperspace, it has kind of been set up by this graphic.

To make it work, I figured you could cut to the screen toward the beginning of the scene, again some point after Poe ignores Leia’s order and showing the bar halfway loaded, and later after the Raddus has escaped, but now we see it is complete. Basically, it would show that if Poe had listened to Leia, then they wouldn’t have been able to track them through hyperspace. It just helps shows Poe’s fallibility a little more. Also, it makes Hux seem a little more competent towards the beginning of the film, since it would help explain why Hux wouldn’t want to immediately chase the Resistance off by swarming it with laser fire or TIE Fighters and it helps explain Hux’s overconfidence later in the film as well.

Anyway, when I went back to look at the computer monitors in that scene, I noticed that in both instances we see it (the radar screen and the communication screen), they are actually the exact same shot but with different graphics and slightly different color grades.

Just thought that was interesting. Not sure if it would be better to replace one of them entirely or flip one of the shots to get a third insert for the tracking screen.

Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.

Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.

I LOVE that Episode IX fan poster. It is very reminiscent to the Return of the Jedi teaser poster. I really wish the crystal would be exposed like that in the actual movie too.

The Star Wars comic covers are really nice too. I’ve heard the storyline with that character, Trios, is very good. She is like a foil to Leia, apparently.

I really like those ship designs too. I literally just shared a link to his Colin Cantwell Arrestor Cruiser on the Solo Fan Edit thread yesterday. I think that is an actual 3d model and not just a painting. I was thinking it would be cool to try and remake that deleted scene with the unfinished effects using his model. Don’t know how doable that would be though.

We were discussing the Space Leia scene a little more on Poppa’s thread. I thought about trying to use a 4K source to crop the initial shot of Leia flying by to see if it felt any different. I probably could have cropped it a little less, but I just wanted to see the difference. This version has the “woosh” sounds removed from that initial shot and metal straining sounds added for the door at the end.

https://vimeo.com/313284916