How about when Han runs down the hall chasing the Stormtroopers? It could be very brief cameo of that motif, and feel motivated since he’s acting all “heroic”. Then when he runs away the music could just go back to the original score.
I would be interested in the Traditional Mandarin subtitles whenever those are completed. I agree that those additional changes are well worth the wait, no rush at all.
When you say improvements, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean improvements as far as presentation, or improvements as in more accurate translations? I’m sure you have talked about this before in the past, so I apologize if I am asking a regular question.
Yeah, when I read your idea on the caretaker thread I didn’t think it would be able to work, but the way it looks in your test, it definitely feels like it could take place literally five minutes after Rey plays with the lightsaber (and it makes more sense than it suddenly being sunset). This also makes think trying to make the color grade of the beginning of TLJ look less yellow and bright, and make it more like the end of TFA, would work better than trying to make the end of TFA look more like the beginning of TLJ, if that makes sense. It’s like trying to inject more sunlight into a scene works less than if you tried to make it less sunny. Just a thought.
I would personally leave the training stuff as is, for the reasons Nev mentioned earlier, but I am really curious to see if that caretaker restructure would work. Like you said in the caretaker thread, it might not work for pacing reasons, but regardless of that I think it would be a great approach for your edit, since no one has really tried that idea yet (since people either plop it right where it was meant to be, or they remove the caretaker stuff altogether like Hal does). It could be one of things that differentiates your edit from the the others, since it is starting to feel like it will eventually be the most edited Star Wars movie outside of The Phantom Menace.
So when you do that, will everything from the Caretaker scene to Rey leaving the island all be together, or will you cut away again at some point? I really struggle with understanding pacing and when it feels right to cut. I would be curious if anyone had their own perspective on that.
I’ve been hearing one year, but even then I agree with Zach that a relationship could have just developed in between films. Even six months would be enough time to justify it. Also, doesn’t Poppa’s version keep Finn covering Rose on the Falcon? I think that alone hints that Finn might have feelings for her.
I think the bigger concern is if the “not fighting what we hate/saving what we love” will be a lesson Finn utilizes in IX. Though even then you could argue it is something he just comes to learn from Rose overtime, unless they directly refer to it I suppose.
In retrospect, I think the easiest way to solve the issue with that scene is to use darthrush’s idea (that Poppa built off of) and have it seem like Finn is about to get shot, but then Rose saves him from the oncoming laser and it continues as is. You wouldn’t be drastically altering what happens or any choices a character makes, but it makes it clearer that Finn was not going to stop the cannon. Because I think that is sort of the main reason people have a problem with the whole scene, because it wasn’t as clear as it could’ve been that Finn was not going to disable the cannon. So everything else Rose does, the line, the kiss, seems selfish and a “dumb”, as the stranger I sat next to in my second viewing called it, because not everyone felt Finn was going to 100% fail. But if an AT-AT shoots right at him, and we start thinking he is going to die for nothing, and Rose pushes him out of the way at the last minute, then it would be clearer that Finn was going to fail, and you wouldn’t be drastically changing what happened.
I think the solution Poppa has in Rekindled now, though, is really the best version for people who just didn’t like Rose’s speech and the kiss, regardless. If Poppa doesn’t like that moment, then I think he can stick with it as-is without having to worry about IX contradicting it. But if that line might be important in IX, then I think it might be something worth considering down the road. I think Poppa’s version is good, but it would be something I would like to see a future editor try out down the road.
AbramPT, I do see your point about Phasma too. For those who didn’t like Phasma, they probably won’t care and probably just be happy that she is gone. And if she does show up, then it still works because she could’ve just gotten extremely wounded by all the destruction in the hangar.
I agree with Nev, but the color correction you did to the conversation inside the temple cave looks pretty good in my opinion. I think if you wanted to separate that scene with the caretaker deleted scene (for the reasons you’ve previously mentioned), you could use that regrade and then start by removing the sunset establishing shot of the island that is in between the Rey lightsaber scene and when Luke’s VO “Lesson Two” starts. Just have Luke’s VO start over that shot of Rey instead.
Then whenever you cut back to Ach-To for the caretaker scene, you could start with that sunset island establishing shot and use the audio from where Rey initially hears of the “raiders” over it. So you could go from that establishing shot, straight to the shot of Rey looking outside at the raiders approaching the village.
From a Watsonian perspective, maybe they have developed better methods to check if anything on the ship is transmitting a signal. So when they jumped to lightspeed, they scanned the ship and found nothing was transmitting a signal out. I also could imagine the Resistance/Republic developing some kind of device that can jam outgoing signals that would render physical tracking devices useless.
I think this is one of those things that we possibly overthink, but I think it is important to rationalize everything in a story if one plans on taking part in telling that story (in this case as fan editors). But I feel like this kind of thing could be explained somewhat in a novelization or something.
Sometimes when I think about this plot, it does kind of make me wish that the plot revolved around a possible spy aboard the Raddus. Rose thinks its Finn, Poe thinks its Holdo, etc etc.
It could’ve gone into how First Order spies have infiltrated the New Republic and how the Resistance was formed to avoid that, but now they’re compromised in their most desperate moment. And we could see the gang try to find the real spy while the Resistance falls apart without Leia, their symbol of hope, to keep them together.
I also could picture some pretty cool ships sets they could’ve built too have adventures all throughout this giant cruiser as they look for the spy. But maybe the whole side plot just being on the Raddus would’ve been boring. You would also have to figure out a different way for Finn to learn to fight for a cause he believes in.
While it is fun to imagine, and I think I would eventually love to see a novel with that kind of plot, I’m kind of thinking/hoping that IX will add importance to the Canto Bight sequence if they resolve the issues it presented, like how greed feeds the cycle of war, helping over hurting, etc. If that, or at least how they’ll end the war, doesn’t get addressed, or the lessons Finn learned from there don’t carry over, it won’t hold as much value as it could have.
The one thing I do wish, is that Canto Bight was physically closer to Crait, because if you look at one of the updated galaxy maps, it is like halfway across the galaxy. I know travel time in hyperspace has never been very consistent, and some hyperdrives are faster than others, but it does push it a little. At least it seems like they were on Canto Bight for only like two or three hours, tops, and the ship DJ stole to get back looked really fast.
To add to what Nev says, TLJ makes it clear that whatever technology they’re using to follow the Resistance is new.
When the First Order shows up to their rendezvous point, Leia comes to the conclusion that they tracked them through lightspeed. Finn says, “That’s impossible.” So clearly this must be state-of-art stuff.
Rose mentions that it is a new tech, but the principle must be the same as “active tracker”, which is how they figure out a way to potential disable it. I’m not really sure what active tracking means, though, or why only the lead ship would use it. The wookipedia article doesn’t clarify.
It does mention some of the “science” behind the tech though: Part of the technology used in the hyperspace tracker was a complex static hyperspace field generator, which enveloped arrays of databanks and computers in a localized hyperspace field that accelerated their calculation speeds to unimaginable rates.
That description does remind me of an idea I had about the reason the Holdo maneuver was so effective was because a part of the Supremecy was actually inside hyperspace in order for the tech to work, sort of like a periscope on a submarine. And hyperspace collisions can be extremely catastrophic, which is what makes this particular situation extraordinary.
I personally don’t think an explanation like that is necessary in the film. I also think the Raddus’ advanced shields is a good answer as well. You know, just something to quell the people that had questions like “why don’t they do this more often”. If it something made this situation unique, it would help explain that.
The “science” explanation also makes me think that hyperspace tracking basically utilized a hyper-quantum computer to either do two things, 1) slice into a ship’s navi-computer to determine where their next destination is, or 2) take the raw data of the ship’s trajectory to determine their destination out of thousands of variables with very high accuracy. A third possibility is that if each ship gives off their own hyperspace footprint or data shadow, that if the tracker can analyze that signature, it can then look into hyperspace and be able to follow it like bread crumbs. Maybe it is similar to the explanation they gave about the damaged Tantive IV leaking something, which allowed Vader to know where they went.
Whatever the mumbo jumbo answer is, it has to function in a way where the First Order can pursue them only moments after their target jumps to hyperspace, since Finn seems to imply that if they were to jump again that the First Order would arrive in “30 seconds”, making the effort pointless.
For my earlier suggestion about the loading bar for the hyperspace tracker, the explanation would have to fit with the idea that they would need to analyze something about their ship, either the navi-computer data itself, or study a ship’s “digital footprint” or whatever, and that process takes a few minutes. It also does give the technology a weakness that could be exploited in the future by the Resistance (if the First Order shows up, retreat before they can lock on to your ship’s signature, or everyone jump in different directions, etc).
I definitely think it is an improvement. To me, I would kind of compare Young’s cinematography on Solo with some of Gordon Willis’ work, the cinematographer of The Godfather (who was also known as the prince of darkness). I know it seems odd to compare a cinematic masterpiece like The Godfather with Solo, but they both rely heavily on diegetic light to inform the lighting on set, and both films result in a lot of shadows. Also, both films deal with the underworld of their respective universes, and Lucas and Coppola were close companions and collaborators (with Lucas even filming some insert shots for The Godfather as well as doing some uncredited editing work), so I think the comparisons are appropriate.
But, if you actually watch The Godfather, yes the film is dark, but the parts of the scene that are exposed to the light are clear. With Solo, it feels like the Colorist put some kind of filter on that made the movie darker in the worst way possible. Yes, you want the darks to be dark, but you want to have what is lit to actually stand out, so you have a decent contrast. Good job one what you’ve done so far.
One thing that I have been considering for The Last Jedi that I have mentioned before is the idea of showing Hux’s Star Destroyer “lock on” to the Raddus during the battle in order to track it through hyperspace. We never really know how exactly they are tracking them through hyperspace, maybe they are somehow tracking some kind of “footprint” or “shadow” the Raddus is leaving through hyperspace, or maybe they have sliced into the Raddus’ navigational computer.
Regardless, I think if we saw an image of the Raddus on one of their computer monitors, as well as some kind of loading bar (to reflect the loading bar of Poe’s booster engine), it would add a few things to the story. For one, we wouldn’t know what the loading bar was for until later in the film, so when we hear about Hux having them “tied at the end of a string” and discovering they have tracked them through hyperspace, it has kind of been set up by this graphic.
To make it work, I figured you could cut to the screen toward the beginning of the scene, again some point after Poe ignores Leia’s order and showing the bar halfway loaded, and later after the Raddus has escaped, but now we see it is complete. Basically, it would show that if Poe had listened to Leia, then they wouldn’t have been able to track them through hyperspace. It just helps shows Poe’s fallibility a little more. Also, it makes Hux seem a little more competent towards the beginning of the film, since it would help explain why Hux wouldn’t want to immediately chase the Resistance off by swarming it with laser fire or TIE Fighters and it helps explain Hux’s overconfidence later in the film as well.
Anyway, when I went back to look at the computer monitors in that scene, I noticed that in both instances we see it (the radar screen and the communication screen), they are actually the exact same shot but with different graphics and slightly different color grades.
Just thought that was interesting. Not sure if it would be better to replace one of them entirely or flip one of the shots to get a third insert for the tracking screen.
Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.
Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.
I LOVE that Episode IX fan poster. It is very reminiscent to the Return of the Jedi teaser poster. I really wish the crystal would be exposed like that in the actual movie too.
The Star Wars comic covers are really nice too. I’ve heard the storyline with that character, Trios, is very good. She is like a foil to Leia, apparently.
I really like those ship designs too. I literally just shared a link to his Colin Cantwell Arrestor Cruiser on the Solo Fan Edit thread yesterday. I think that is an actual 3d model and not just a painting. I was thinking it would be cool to try and remake that deleted scene with the unfinished effects using his model. Don’t know how doable that would be though.
We were discussing the Space Leia scene a little more on Poppa’s thread. I thought about trying to use a 4K source to crop the initial shot of Leia flying by to see if it felt any different. I probably could have cropped it a little less, but I just wanted to see the difference. This version has the “woosh” sounds removed from that initial shot and metal straining sounds added for the door at the end.
I was thinking he could just say nothing. I think it works without anything else said. But there might be something that could fit there, though.
When Colin Cantwell popped over on the discussion side of the forum, it reminded me of the Solo deleted scene where one of his designs got cut. If the TIE Fighter half of the Naval Academy deleted scene was able to be recreated from scratch, who here thinks it would be worth the effort to do?
Really in that half, you still don’t really see Han being an amazing pilot, unless you count him managing to crash land into a hangar and surviving (which I guess is a very Han thing to do). You could add more to the “dogfight”, but would too much make it too obvious that is isn’t ILM-level CGI?
Basically I had the idea to replace the TIE interior shots with TIE interior footage from 4K77 (Similar to what they did with Red and Gold Leader for Rogue One). Then use the TIE cockpit POV shots, rotoscope the windows out, then use either a Star Destroyer model OR this Cantwell’s Arrestor Cruiser model this guy made if he has it available anywhere to show where Han is flying toward.
And instead of using the TIE/rb (TIE Brute) since I can’t find any models for it, I thought it would be cool to use EC Henry’s TIE Vector concept in its place.
The scene would also need a new voiceover as well for whoever Han is talking to.
It would require a bit of work (especially for myself considering I have never done 3D animation work before), but I think it is possible. I just wanted to see what the consensus was on if this scene is really worth it or not. What are the pros and cons, basically.
Mr. Cantwell! Thanks for stopping by to chat with us!
I don’t know if this would ever interest you, but I think it would be really cool to see a video of you sharing your kitbashing process, maybe you and an assistant could try to build one of the ships from your CoreFires novel that you recently published. It would be a great way to share your experience with future model makers, and also promote your book.
Adam Savage, who did some model work for the prequels, has done kitbashing videos a number of times on his YouTube channel that provide a good example of the process. I think people would love to see something like this!
Also guys, Mr. Cantwell has a pretty solid Instagram if any of you are on there.
Thanks for your contributions in inspiring the imagination of children (and adults) for the past 40 years! It wouldn’t be the same without your creativity.
Has anyone been able to use the 4K version of the film for potential cropping, yet?
I think poppa is satisfied with not having the Space Walk in his edit and I respect that. I do remembering though back when we both had discussed the scene, that poppa speculated on cropping that one particular wide shot when she starts moving toward the ship. His idea was that if the shot was tighter, that maybe it would work better. Having the 4K version of that shot would help make that seamless, for a future editor who did want to keep that moment.
Had small thoughts about dialogue changes for Kylo and Phasma.
At the Jakku village, when Phasma says, “Sir, the prisoners?”
Kylo responds, “Kill them all.”
But I was thinking that could be changed to, “I leave that to you.”
Then Phasma could continue on with, “On my command.” with some slight edits to the shot of Kylo and the troops raising their blasters, etc.
Kylo’s role seems pretty specific within the First Order, so I think he would care less about the collateral damage of his goals, and it also lets Phasma get some bad guy points for making the call herself. Kylo just killed an old man, so he already has demonstrated his ruthlessness.
Also, when Kylo says, “I leave that to you” to Hux later in the film, it doesn’t really make much sense if you think about it. Getting the map is Kylo’s one objective. Why would he “leave it to Hux”? He didn’t leave it to Hux when he made his dramatic entrance at the Jakku village. I think it would actually be better if he just didn’t say anything at all. It really doesn’t effect the story whatsoever if we remove it in that scene.
Building off dialogue changes, I remembered that Gwendoline Christie actually voiced Phasma for the battlefront game, so she also has a number of alternate lines that could be used to give Phasma a little more character/personality.
Here are a few that I personally like:
5:49 - Individuality does not suit you.
[this one could be funny after Han calms Finn down when he says “I’m in charge! I’m in charge now!”
It also could be used when she is at the computer terminal]
2:27 - Whatever you call yourself, you’re FN-2187
[this would be another good response after he says, “the name’s Finn.” Her performance with this line is good. Definitely could use either this line or the previous one in this scene]
Traitorous whelp.
You’re nothing without the First Order.
Everything you know, I taught you.
[These two are solid and her delivery is probably the best out of the lot. I think these would fit during the Finn and Phasma fight potentially. Maybe right before the fight begins or during their dramatic close up, and just replace the line “You’re a bug in the system!”] [“You’re nothing without the First Order” could fit with the “I’m in charge” scene too.]
The First Order will conquer you all. [Could replace “my troops will storm this block and kill you all”. That doesn’t happen, but the First Order does still end up conquering the galaxy so this would make her right in this version. But maybe it would make less sense in this moment.]
2:46 - The First Order is eternal.
2:47 - You’ve been surprisingly troublesome.
3:11 - Your Death has been authorized.
3:25 - I offer no mercy.
You have already been judged.
[I feel like these would all fit around when Finn and Rose are going to be executed. I think if there was a line in the vein of making an example out of them, it would fit in as well and explain why they’re brutally executing them in front of a platoon of Stormtroopers.]
Also, if one kept Han’s “trash compactor” line, I would remove Finn’s “yeah, there is”, and just leave it on Phasma’s head turn. I think that answers their question.
There’s a lot of viable lines there, though, that could possibly make her brief moments stand out a little more. For example, I think part of the appeal of Boba Fett is that 1) he looks badass, and 2) he has a handful of quotable lines. I think some of these lines potentially have that quotability factor, if that makes sense. Just some ideas though.
EDIT: Also, I think Nev’s idea of having Phasma also sound the alarm is a must-have change too. It makes her at least a little bit defiant in the face of death.
Haha, I am not going be able to unsee that comparison now.
I might be wrong, and Ady or 005 can correct me if so, but I think Ady has said the ending is going to be entirely different, so it’ll be neither Yub Nub nor Victory Celebration. I think he was planning on the final scene being Luke and the funeral pyre, so the tone will be more bittersweet than joyous, if I had to guess. But he might not be 100% on that.
EDIT: If I had to personally pick between just those two options, I prefer Victory Celebration. It’s what I grew up with, and I think it has a more appropriate and grander feel than Yub Nub. But I’m glad Ady is considering a new approach.
That is really cool. I feel like it would take quite a bit of time to do this for the entire OT.
Holy shit. I’m really diggin that.
It makes sense to have the shots in that order. You kind of recontextualize the “The Resistance will not be intimidated by you” line in a way that feels even more relevant. Like Kylo is trying to break his will in order get to the truth.
Also, did you add Kylo saying “Agreed”? That’s genius. I mean you can argue it isn’t needed but I feel like that is appropriate with his attitude.
That BB-8 shot is the best one by far you could’ve used. And yeah, like you said, even though most people probably know that he gave it to BB-8, I think it would still work as a nice little reveal and make it to where you’re not reusing any shots.
I’m still not sure what would be the best way to present those images, if they should be briefer flashes, or if they should be distorted in some way, but I like the direction you’re going in.
Huh, that is interesting.
I always assumed, theatrical or Restructured, that the Resistance had heard rumors about a First Order weapon and had some indirect evidence, like the Resistance show might be setting up when Poe and Kaz go to a system with a missing star later this season. So they know something big was going on, but they had yet to find enough direct evidence to bring to the Republic. Probably similar to how Rogue One implies a similar thing with the Death Star. No evidence, but rumors. I personally think it isn’t a big issue, but I think this is an interesting idea.
It kind of makes me think of the first main Force Awakens trailer, when it shows Poe being interrogated and then cross fades into the shot of the trees being knocked down by the shockwave of Starkiller firing. It almost gives it that vibe that Poe is seeing that. You could also use that shot if you didn’t want to directly show the planets blowing up in the “vision”, or the shot of Kylo watching the laser pass by since that never happens in Restructured. I always thought that shot would be to cool if you could make it look like the Finalizer was in hyperspace with Kylo looking out the viewport for when they’re heading to Takodana.
But personally I don’t know how effective it would be to have repeat shots. Maybe if there was a way to distort them a little. Maybe a subtle Force sound effect when it shifts from scene to scene too. They could possibly be briefer than Poe’s own memories, to kind of imply that Kylo’s own thoughts are slipping through rather than being projected to Poe intentionally.
Also, I wonder if it would work to see a very brief shot of BB-8 in the end, even if it was slightly crossfading in over Poe’s face and the cataclysm, like Poe’s trying to hold it back but that crucial piece of info is starting to come through. Not sure how exactly that could work, but I feel like it would fit in with the purpose of the scene.
Also, I really like the shot of Lor San smiling. I don’t know, it just feels sad that this friendly old man has just died and we’re being reminded of it. I like it.
So you used alternate takes for that? Pretty interesting.
One thing I noticed though, you said you flipped shots when necessary, but I noticed a few shots of Obi-Wan around the 40-50 sec mark breaking the 180. For one shot he is on one side of the frame and then in the next he’s on the other side. Also, when Vader says, “You should not have come back.” That shot is also on the opposite side of the generally established 180. Is this intentional to make the duel feel more chaotic?
I noticed how you have him do that spin to fake his movement to the opposite side to Vader and I think that works.
But I personally think you should flip those shots to match the 180. If you flipped them for continuity, I wouldn’t worry about it, because your audience would notice the 180 break before they would notice someone’s hands positioned on their lightsaber differently or the buttons on Vader’s chestbox being on the wrong side. Besides, this version still has a continuity error, with the saber mark on the wall being visible before Vader ever hits the wall.
Also, I like the use of some of the new saber sounds, but there are some I think that are a little too much. There is one that you use a few times that sounds like someone dipping hot metal into water, or sorta like a tire screeching. Don’t know how else to describe it but I feel like it doesn’t fit. Maybe it is just me and its because I know they weren’t there originally, so probably not a big deal.
Also, I noticed you used a saber ignition sound at one point in the middle of the fight, I actually think it is the sound specifically used for Vader’s saber, which I was going to suggest you use instead of the more generic saber ignitions used for Obi and Luke. If you go back and watch the Bespin duel you can hear the difference between Luke’s and Vader’s.
Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.
Snooker, I can get it was a pain to track. Still not perfect but it definitely looks more like the ST style of the blade.
Honestly, I really like how Luke’s saber seemed more Cyan than Blue in the first movie. It kind of differentiated it from all the other blue sabers. But if you were to try to make the blade consistent through all the films, it would be easier to make that cyan to blue rather than the opposite, since it is blue more.
That is true, but in the context that it is the First Order rather than some random faction, then they would already know who she is fighting, because they’re currently invading the galaxy. So I think if some little audio cues could be added to reinforce that she is indeed fighting the First Order, I think it would work.
I don’t think it is an insult to her character, but beyond that I have to agree with Dr. K, though. I think it would be of a benefit to omit that line for the reasons he previously mentioned. It would actually feel like the First Order is invading various parts of the galaxy, like the crawl mentioned, if Maz is off somewhere else also fighting them. The last time we see Maz, her home and livelihood was destroyed by the First Order, and she even says that “we” must fight them. Plus, if she is going to be with the Resistance in IX, wouldn’t it make sense to have Maz already be fighting the First Order?
I personally didn’t think the “union dispute” was sarcasm. Maybe it was meant to be, but I don’t think think it came off as sarcasm to most people if you were to ask them. Just my guess though. I think if you heard something like Stormtrooper blaster sounds or chatter through the hologram it would probably help get that idea across.
Sorry poppa, I know this discussion isn’t directly related to your edit.