RogueLeader

I don’t have much to say! Definitely an improvement from the previous version. The only note I might have is that now that this First Order motif is used three times in the movie, I worry about it being too much, but I could be wrong. Is it three times? Poe’s interrogation, the Takodana attack, and this, right? If I had to choose a place to cut I would say the interrogation, but maybe it isn’t too much, not sure.

Nev, those are some good points. I especially like how you highlight Luke’s idealism as somewhat of both a flaw and a strength.

I think merely them having more altruistic qualities is something both Luke and Rey have in common. They both do want to help people. Rey wants to help BB-8 and the Resistance. Luke wants to help Obi-Wan and the Princess.

And like you said, Rey’s major characterization revolves around her own sense of belonging and identity.
Personally, I think having Rey join Kylo would have been a really big mistake. I don’t think it was a coincidence that this was the same scene that made Rey come face-to-face with her origins and what they mean for her sense of self-worth. Yes, Rey is looking for belonging, but really in that scene she was presented with a choice between belonging with Kylo or belonging with the Resistance.

I think in her mind, she realized that if Kylo is still willing to kill others when he doesn’t have to, then he hasn’t really changed, but he is just more of the same.
And you have to remember that Rey doesn’t know Finn is aboard the Supremacy, and although she has come to understand Ben more during the film, her one main friend is Finn, and for all she knows he is on those transports. Her letting Kylo keep destroying the rest of the transports would have been out-of-character for Rey.

I think I saw this suggested somewhere, but I can really only picture the moving going two other ways:
One, Holdo could have rammed the Supremacy as Rey was reaching out for his hand, as if she was going to join him, but the following explosion snapped her out of it and made her flee. You probably re-edit this and people could just assume the saber somehow got messed up in the explosion.

Two, Rey could have told Kylo that she would join him if he stopped firing on the transports. He could have said fine, but we are still capturing them. They go down to Crait, Rey would be standing alongside Kylo, seeing him slowly lose his cool. And when Luke shows up, they both go out to meet him, and Luke apologizes to both Rey and Kylo, and he convinces Rey to go run back to the Resistance and help them escape, while he has his confrontation with Kylo Ren.

But, even though I might write up these alternatives, I don’t necessarily agree with them. I still think Rey’s decision to not join Kylo was belonging-driven, but in that moment she realized that Finn and the Resistance could be her belonging rather than Kylo. But I think that choice comes from a healthy place, like, Rey at that moment realized that it didn’t matter if she was nothing, that she could create her own identity, and in that moment she chose that is not what she wanted to be.

I can’t express it really well, but I thought another intentional touch on that scene was for Kylo to keep the glove on his hand, rather than when he took his glove off when he and Rey touched hands earlier in the film. In that moment, I think Kylo was showing something very personal and honest of himself to Rey. But in the Throne Room, it wasn’t the same thing. If he wasn’t intentionally doing it, Kylo is trying to manipulate Rey’s own self-doubt, and I think Rey catches on to this.

That is a really good point.

Though I honestly feel a stronger marketing campaign could have done a better job at selling the film to general audiences. Not only was the marketing WAY too short, but I think a more targeted approach could have helped people got on board with the idea of Alden as Han. Possibly they could have shown more brief clips of him playing Han, maybe a trailer with a different angle, per se. We need to sell people on this new kid as Han, so let’s make a trailer that shows off a little more Han. Or even something as simple as having Alden on more talk shows to allow people to get to like Alden as a person. Can’t you picture him playing a party game with Jimmy Fallon?

I also think he would’ve been a great person to host SNL. They had Donald Glover host around the same time (not only to promote Solo, but also his own show and music, since “This is America” dropped the same night. But honestly people already like Donald Glover a lot. Alden has shown he has the comedy chops with his brief appearance in *Hail, Caesar!”, and if the film had been pushed back to allow more time for this kind of promotion, I think the film performance would have improved.

EDIT: This might not make sense, but one thing that comes to mind is that the trailers didn’t tally present us with any stakes, or a hook to make us find out what is going to happen.

They sort of didn’t need that for TFA, honestly. People were going to see it regardless. The Last Jedi trailer teased Rey possibly turning to the dark side. Rogue One set the stakes up with this band of ragtag rebels going against the odds to save the galaxy against this weapon of mass destruction. What about Solo?

All we knew was that Han got a job with a big time gangster. I wonder if the trailer has hinted at the threat Dryden Vos and Crimson Dawn presented, that if they failed they could be killed, people would’ve been more interesting in seeing what would happen. Obviously we know Han won’t die, but it still works with James Bond, Ethan Hunt and Indiana Jones.

Another trailer could’ve done a better job at teasing Han and Qi’ra’s relationship, which is personally one of my favorite aspects of the whole film. Teasing a nice star-crossed romance could’ve also helped sell the movie to certain female audiences who might be less interested in the action, but would be interested in another love story with Emilia Clarke (who has established herself in Game of Thrones and Me Before You). Anyway, just some thoughts.

poppasketti said:

As for force ghost Yoda training Rey: I think that would be gold!

I think I actually said Force ghost Luke training Rey, but it’d be cool to see Yoda training her too!

And regarding Rey’s ability to fly the Falcon, Rey has already flown ships, just not the Falcon. But, it seems like she helped Unkar Plutt do repairs and modifications, since she is familiar with what Plutt has done to it. So even though she hasn’t flown it off the ground, she’s already intimate with its mechanics, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Rey has spent some time in the cockpit, studying all the controls and possibly even imagine flying away on it, before.

Though she probably would have preferred flying away in the Quad-Jumper because the Falcon is garbage!

I wonder if she just felt it just looked like a piece of junk, like Luke did, or if Unkar’s bad modifications made Rey feel like it made that ship worse.

I’m confused by the way you worded that description. Do you think her speech wasn’t meant to make the audience laugh?

What a great argument, Poppa!

I think it is a good point to break down what actually Luke’s training was all about, too. Not only were Luke’s lessons with Yoda more about mindset, even Luke’s brief lesson from Obi-Wan on the Falcon in ANH, although it involved a lightsaber, involved about “letting go” and letting the Force guide your actions, which fits in well with how Rey managed to beat Kylo at the end of TFA.

With Yoda’s dialogue, when he says, “That library contained nothing the girl Rey does not already possess.” I think he, again, is referring primarily to something fundamental within Rey’s character. Maybe that she has the goodness that it takes to be a Jedi. But while it works figuratively, he is also being literal since he knows Rey took the books with her when she left.

I agree though that this line does work better better after we know she has refused Kylo Ren’s offer to turn. On the other hand, Yoda follows up with, “Lost Ben Solo you did, lose Rey we must not.” Which might not work as well knowing she didn’t turn, but it could refer to losing her as in abandoning the call of the Force in general. Not sure.

Also, it is unfortunate that what exactly Carrie’s scenes will be limited as far as what they can have her too, but that scene with Yoda does seem to hint that Luke will train Rey as a Force ghost, since Yoda is still trying to tell him to pass on what he’s learned even after she already left.

And I wanted to add that I’ve heard complaints about how Rey didn’t even convince Luke to come back, and that it was Yoda instead. But Rey was the one who encouraged Luke to reconnect to the Force, and Yoda wouldn’t have been able to give Luke that pep talk without that.

MalàStrana said:

RogueLeader said:

if the rumored McGuffin of the film is Jedi/Force related

You mean like in every single Episode ?

Well, the MacGuffin of ANH was the Death Star plans.

Here was Jason’s post about the MacGuffin.
https://makingstarwars.net/2019/02/what-is-star-wars-episode-ixs-macguffin/

It is described by his sources as being “delightful, but somewhat controversial”

If that’s true, that makes me think it will be something fans might already be familiar with. And it is something that could have big implications on the story.

Having it be the Journal of the Whills would be a deep cut into Star Wars history. We also know that George’s Original ST treatments may have something to do regarding the Whills, so it would be a cool way to tie the story back into his original ideas. And knowing George, their relevance probably would’ve been controversial.

https://nerdist.com/article/george-lucas-star-wars-sequel-trilogy-whills/

Also, since TLJ ended with Rey having some light reading material, it is possible she has learned about its existence and will want to go scavenge it for her collection. And Rogue One established Jedha as a place closely related to the Whills, with Jedha City being built around a Temple of the Whills, and natives like Baze and Chirrut being Guardians of the Whills.

We might not actually encounter the Whills, that might be too Lucasy, but they could have a prescence in the film through the existence of the Journal itself.

Another rumor mentions a possible threat from the Beyond, whatever that means. Could it be possible that the Journal could contain some crucial information regarding this threat?

https://makingstarwars.net/2019/02/rumors-speculation-star-wars-episode-ix-and-the-threat-of-the-knights-of-ren/

Whatever the MacGuffin is, it definitely seems Force-related if both Rey and Kylo Ren are after it. It’s also possible that the MacGuffin could be some sort of device, like a Holocron or something brand new. So it might not be the Journal of the Whills, but if it was it would be a nice “bookend” to the story.

EDIT: I’ve also read a theory that the MacGuffin could be Kylo Ren himself. Maybe he gets betrayed by the Knights of Ren and the First Order and goes on the run, and both the Resistance and the First Order are after him. I could see that happening too.

Yeah, Luke and Leia went to Jedha in the new Marvel comics, so it’s not completely uninhabitable.

Here were the set photos taken back in October.

https://makingstarwars.net/2018/10/photos-of-wadi-rum-set-from-star-wars-episode-ix/

Jason Ward actually mentions how Jakku was originally going to be filmed in Jordan before Abu Dhabi gave them a better deal. But then after that didn’t work out, Rogue One shot there for Jedha.

Ward speculated that they might go back to Jordan to film it as maybe a different part of Jakku since JJ originally conceived the planet looking like Jordan. Although I wonder that since the Jordan landscape was established with Jedha already, that he would go back and use it for Jakku too.

The poster does mention seeing a lot of tents and speeder bikes that look similar to Rey’s speeder. So the tech might seem to point more toward Jakku. Though the alien cut outs standing out in the desert also gives me a pilgrim vibe. Though the fact we’ve never seen this kind of alien before makes me think it could just be a new world.

Then again, we really don’t know how much Jedha might have changed in the past 30+ years. But to me, the landscape definitely feels more like Jedha than anything else. I could see then going back if the rumored McGuffin of the film is Jedi/Force related. What if the McGuffin was the Journal of the Whills?

Definitely fun to speculate about!

Why do you want to cut the Lady Proxima scene?

Also, there is no music in the alternate version of Qi’ra’s intro, so maybe you could look at trying to use that if you can’t get the current version to work.

That’s very true. Hell, Kylo could’ve just pulled a Qui-Gon Jinn a burned a whole through the door with his lightsaber.

“He’s still coming through!”

That is true. I love that there is a whole new group of female Star Wars fans. Also, a lot of the female fans, either on reddit, podcasts or Tumblr, also tend to have some really great analyses on the movies and characters.

Cool! So that at least makes it Daisy, Adam and John who for sure wrapped today.

FYI this photo is from way earlier in production. Both Daisy and Adam Driver’s make up artists also posted today about wrapping at Pinewood. So both Daisy and Adam filmed today. It’s possible John Boyega and Oscar Isaac did too, but there is also no indication either way on that I believe.

To add to the Jordan speculation. Honestly a part of me thinks it is a new planet, because the background aliens that we’ve scene in other leaks don’t really match the look of the other planets’ citizens. But since JJ has already done a new desert planet, I like to think he would want to immediately do another new desert planet, and that going to a desert planet in this movie is significant in some way.

If I had to guess between the familiar worlds, I would have to go with Jedha. I mean, it’s the same filming location, the leaked background would fit in as Jedha denizens more than the people on Jakku or Tatooine. And personally I think it would be cool to see a planet that has a chunk blown out of it.

Episode IX: There is No Adequate Way to Thank This Truly Magical Crew and Cast. I’m Forever Indebted to You All.

It’s a beautiful photo. And I’m really digging all their costumes, especially their hair. I love Rey’s buns. Similar to the old one’s but still new. Almost like Leia buns.

Yeah, I agree that the film has a lot to juggle, and because of that maybe the film could’ve bit in a bit more to make certain things a little clearer to more people.

And that’s a good way to explain Finn, Dom! Finn has always been about running away, but now that he believes in the cause, he is almost going overboard, wanting to be a martyr for the cause! But Rose is basically like, “whoa, slow down cowboy”. And last lesson she gives him about what they fight for.

Your first message also made be picture Finn flying into the ram cannon and destroying it, but then the First Order just drops a second one down in front of it. Haha.

I’ve messed around with it too and I just cut all of that out. Because Qi’ra and Han kind of repeat the things they want in the speeder on the way to the spaceport.

So in your version, you have him find Qi’ra in the sewers and then hop on the speeder?

What a great video! Love that guy’s attitude. Thanks for sharing.

I’ll try to touch on how some of his thoughts might could be applied to edits.

A new idea I hadn’t really heard was trying to swap out Han and Qi’ra introduction with the alternate Qi’ra intro deleted scene. I really like his reasoning. I personally was thinking about cutting all of the Lady Proxima stuff, and just have Han hotwiring the speeder at the very beginning of the film be the start of the speeder chase. But, if I were to keep Proxima I think I would like to try that alternative.

He had an interesting thought regarding Dryden, and how it would’ve been interesting if he didn’t necessarily seem like such a bad guy at the beginning of the film. I can understand that, maybe you could cut out Dryden’s intro with him killing the Imperial Moff, maybe trim some of his threats. But I also think having Dryden be threatening is important to make the stakes of their mission feel high. Hmm, interesting decision.

He also mentioned making Maul’s reveal be a little more subdued, but others have already began attempting this. For me it is either a question of making the cameo a little more subtle or cutting it altogether.

Yes, the scene tries to make it clear to the audience that Finn was going to fail. Both Poe and Rose say it’s not going to work. As Finn is making his final approach, he says, “weapons hot”, implying he needs to shoot inside of it in order to possibly destroy it. As he gets close, though, the cannons on his skimmer bend and melt off. Finn gives it a look of acceptance, seems like he has realized he is going to die.

So even though it might seem weird that the door blows up while Rose and Finn kiss, that was inevitable regardless if Finn died or not. But at least Finn didn’t throw his life away, and there’s still a chance he might make it out of this alive.

I’m not disagreeing though that maybe they could have done one extra thing to make that 100% clear, because there are still people who say, “Well maybe Finn crashing inside of it could have been enough to stop it”. The movie implies it won’t work by focusing on the skimmer’s guns. I’ve suggested this over on the fan edit threads, but if an AT-AT locked onto Finn near the last moment, and Rose knocked him out of the way just in time of an oncoming laser blast, I think it would have made it definitively clear for people.

Although this also overlooks the fact that there must be a smaller entryway through the trenches as well, since Poe and the other pilots apparently got back in without opening the door, and the same goes for all of the soldiers who were in the trenches when the First Order showed up. So the First Order getting into the base was inevitable, but defending potentially one small door could buy them more time for rescue than having to defending a massive hole in the wall.

Now, what makes Finn’s attempted sacrifice different from Paige or Holdo’s. The movie sets these sacrifices apart in two ways.
First, Paige and Holdo’s deaths are painted as inevitable. Both Paige and Holdo were going to die regardless of what they did. Paige was on near-destroyed bomber, and Holdo was on a ship running on fumes and “tied to the end of a string”. Finn, on the other hand, could have turned around and tried to survive. It wasn’t his only option.

Another way these sacrifices were differentiated was by mindset. One of the last things we see Paige do before she dies is clutch onto her necklace, implying that saving her sister is what is driving her to do this. She is driven by love.

Before the transports depart the Raddus, Leia and Holdo have a very personal goodbye and hold onto each other’s hands tightly. Holdo loves Leia and the Resistance.

Finn on at least two occasions shows that he isn’t necessarily driven by love or compassion. After the Fathier chase, Finn states, “It was worth it. To tear up that town. Make them hurt.” Which Rose replies by removing the saddle off of the Fathier and send it running off to freedom, then saying, “Now it’s worth it.” This illustrates how Finn and Rose are motivated by two different mindsets. Motivated by hate versus love.

During the Battle of Crait, when Poe orders Finn to retreat with Rose agreeing, Finn retorts with, “No! I won’t let them win!” Finn at this point seems driven by hate for the First Order, and it sort of made him oblivious to his death being unecessary. It also kind of culminates Rose’s story as well. She wasn’t able to save Paige, someone she loved, but she could save Finn, someone she has grown to care for. She doesn’t want Finn to die for something that’s not guaranteed to work, and she doesn’t want him to die for revenge.

The movie is trying to demonstrate a message about how the motivating force that drives our actions in everyday life can have a huge effect on ourselves. Acting out of love and compassion rather than hate and anger can make us more well-rounded people. Sort of like how hate and revenge can just be a viscious cycle, whereas love and forgiveness are better paths to healing.

But within the film, I also personally believe this lesson will have implications into Finn’s storyline in IX, but I won’t go into that here.

There are probably essays that describe this better than I have. Just my two cents.

NeverarGreat said:

The Snoke scenes are what I feel to be the most up in the air right now. He’s one of the weakest parts of the movie in my opinion and I’m just not sure how to make it better so it’s a matter of throwing ideas at the wall until one sticks.

Actually, the idea is to have a scene with just Hux and Snoke where Hux first floats the idea of destroying the Republic, but it might be too small a scene to work. It might be better to have Kylo there as well with the only dialogue with Snoke being about the awakening.

Yeah, maybe it would just be better to have the two scenes be as they are. By keeping the earlier Snoke scene, we also get a glimpse of Starkiller in the movie a little sooner, and logically it still works. They lost the trail of the droid, so they fell back to Starkiller and wait for their spies to pick up the scent. But like you said, it might be something just to keep playing around with.

Also, I have been wondering if it would be weird to not get a hint about what Finn and Han do about Phasma, but the more I watch it the more I think it works without mentioning it. I mean, we can just assume they shoved her into a janitor closet or something. Because even by keeping the trash compactor joke, people still wondered how she got out in time and survived Starkiller’s destruction. I also think by having her sound the alarm, it helps create more momentum to the next scene and not feel awkward.

Maybe it feels a little asexual for guys, but I know plenty of girls who are getting a lot out of Rey and Kylo Ren! Haha.

Hmm, that is pretty interesting!

Is it necessary to slow down that one shot of Kylo turning?

Also, I would definitely suggest toning down the music and klaxons a little. It’s kind of hard to hear what Phasma is saying.

A total vfx remastering would be infeasible, I think, unless they did an official Prequel Special Edition. Haha.

Maybe if there were more specific things that were addressed, it would be easier for people to tackle them.

If I had to suggest one thing that needs to be played with vfx-wise, I would go with the first deleted scene of Padmé from AOTC, where she is addressing the Senate. The vfx were clearly not 100% completed, because it looks pretty crappy compared to the Senate scenes in TPM. Even the “Senate chatter” sound effects sound like placeholders or just incomplete.

I think some of those shots just need to be replaced by some Senate shots from TPM, improve the sound effects, and maybe do a few other things to it.

Yeah, I think this could work!

It is a lot to play with though, isn’t it? Watching it I realized all the different ways you could rearrange the scenes. I’ll just mention a few things.

The cut to the interrogation seemed weird at first, but I think with music it won’t feel as weird, so that’s just a rough cut thing probably. I’m guessing you put it there instead of after Han and Leia’s conversation so the transition would make feel like enough time has passed for Snap to recon Starkiller and come back, right? Or maybe one reason.

I kinda liked how in your old versions how you reversed the shot of the Stormtrooper so he would just turn back around after he called Rey “scavenger scum”. Do you feel that didn’t work really well?

One interesting thing that happens by this restructure is that you fix a continuity error with Kylo Ren. When he is marching back to Rey’s interrogation room, he doesn’t have his hood. And then when he enters the room, he has it draped over him. But now, it makes it seem like he put it on when he went outside, and then just left it on when he came back in. Not a big deal but kinda neat.

I kinda think having Kylo put his helmet back on during the Snoke conversation doesn’t work, but maybe if you could somehow have those “putting helmet back on” sounds happen over shots where we don’t see Kylo at all, it could. So either crop the shot that it’s on, or do it over close ups of Hux and/or Snoke.

I’m also not sure if I’m 100% into the way the two scenes are put together in this version, but I do think it could work. I understand why it is this way, though. In your edit, we don’t have an earlier scene with Snoke, right? Because basically the first half of the movie Kylo and Hux are just after BB-8, they don’t go back to Starkiller. I mean that makes more sense to me, so I’m good with trying to make that work.

One thing that seems kinda weird is splitting the “Kylo Searches the Falcon” deleted scene. I wonder if you could push back to after Rey escapes. And also, possibly pushing back the “Han Solo” turn Kylo does to a little later, like maybe after they get back with Rey, or make it the scene after Han deciding to use the explosives to blow a whole in the Oscillator. If that wouldn’t work, maybe just cut the shot of Kylo in the Falcon cockpit turning around dramatically, and just start with the shot of him walking away from the Falcon. As it is now, it feels like Kylo has just been standing there the whole time. By cutting that shot, we could imagine he could’ve been exploring the Falcon some more off-camera.

Were there certain effects you think needed changing? I know some cgi hasn’t aged well, like some shots of Jar Jar look a little noticeable in TPM.

I’ve heard of people wanting to add certain cgi elements to scene, but not necessarily doing them.