DrDre said:
I’m happy they will be going on an adventure together in TROS.
I agree! Like you said, the actors have a lot of chemistry together, so it’ll be nice to see those interactions.
Thanks for the preview Petro! Also keep in mind that this is just the start of your journey, and I’m sure you will learn a lot along the way!
Isn’t Rey’s foolish hope just the lie she tells herself? Like people can be logical but also be illogical when it comes to family or daddy/mommy issues.
It’s possible that the hope of her parents returning was what allowed her to survive for so long. It was her willpower to preservere because of that hope. So she she stayed on Jakku because she thought it was only a matter of time for her parents to come back for her. It could be any day now, so she was waiting for them, because that was what she wanted more than leaving Jakku or being a hero, she wanted to be with her family again.
Who created the golden path?
The great God Emperor Leto II, obviously.
…wait, wrong series.
Ha! I knew it sounded familiar when I wrote that.
Sounds good to me. I presume the Jedi archives never had all the information, or were badly damaged during Order 66.
Yeah, it is possible that some Jedi before the Empire were trying to find the origins of the Jedi. Presumably the origins of the Jedi were lost to time. I believe in the recent audio drama, Dooku: Jedi Lost, a character refers to the temple on Ossus as the first Jedi Temple, so it does seem the origins of the religion became lost even to the Jedi over the 25,000~ years of their history.
So maybe the Jedi had started the anthropological research for one purpose, the Empire continued it for another, and then Luke and Lor San followed their footsteps.
Obviously this is more of a head-canon than theory I guess, but you could say it is a head-canon that attempts to be grounded in what we know. And it is kind of cool because it has its own story behind it, like it could be covered in a novel or comic.
Man, it’s interesting how much of a difference little details like those make! I really feel like this method could do wonders to just add another layer of detail to the OT, especially for ROTJ I think.
EDIT: To add on to that thought, I think changes like these, and what Ady, Petro, and others are doing, help bring the OT visually more in like with the rest of the Saga. To me, having an edition of these films that brings the OT more visually in-line with the PT & ST, but also making changes that make the PT & ST more in line with the OT as well. Basically, the end goal being that the whole Saga will visually/aesthetically be more in-sync. I think that would be great!
So this has been rattling in my brain for awhile, but I’ve been trying to figure out where the map to the first Jedi Temple actually came from. I feel like we all just assume we know, but if I were to ask you all you probably would give me a variety of answers.
I just wanted to throw out my own, I don’t know, head-canon(?), and see what you guys think.
So, let’s start with what we know.
The Map itself appears to be a map of the entire galaxy, with a golden trail of points that stretches across it (presumably each point is a planet/moon). The Map is separated into two pieces, the greater Map that originates, as far as we know, from the archives of the Empire. Since it was also in R2’s back-up data, and R2 apparently downloaded that information from the First Death Star, we can assume the greater Map at least dates back to the Battle of Yavin.
The lesser Map existed on a data rod, found by Lor San Tekka around 34 years after the Battle of Yavin, and it also contained a golden path of points (stops/planets) that connected to the greater Map and ended at Ach-To, the location of the first Jedi Temple. It seems these two pieces do come from the same data set, since they fit together perfectly like puzzle pieces and the trails also connect.
The lesser Map mostly, if not completely, consists of uncharted systems, so it is basically impossible to interpret without the context of any known systems. So, the greater map is necessary because it provides that context with rest of the known galaxy and as well as the orientation the golden path provides.
Many of us assumed before TLJ that Luke may have left clues to his whereabouts, and that the map was a clue, and the golden path was the route of stops he made along the way, but this can’t work for two reasons: One, Luke did not want to be found, he went there to die, so he would have not left any clues to his location. And two, the greater Map existed before Luke was ever a Jedi, meaning the golden path predates Jedi Master Luke Skywalker.
So this leaves a few questions: Who created the golden path? What do the points on the path represent? Why did the map have a missing piece? There are others but I’ll start with those.
This is my theory.
The Map as we know it dates at least to the Empire’s reign, and it was made by an Imperial archaeologist who was tasked with finding the first Jedi temple.
Each point on the map is some kind of Jedi archaeological site, and the Archaelogist was retracing the “Jedi steps” to determine their point of origin. Basically, the Archaelogist could use clues from each site, in combination with something like radiocarbon dating, to determine the age of each site. If the Archaelogist were to travel from younger sites to older sites, he could determine the direction the Jedi migrated across the galaxy over generations. So, in theory, among all the data points on the map, Ach-To, the last point on the map, would be the oldest location, while the first point on the map would be the latest location. And, like I said, different sites could have different clues, like ancient star charts, items that could only be found on the next planet-point on the map, etc.
The Archaelogist eventually managed to find the first Jedi Temple, but something happened before he could turn in that information. Either he died and his body was never found before he could turn in that final data set, or, he discovered that the Emperor’s intention was to destroy all of these sites, including the first Jedi temple, to erase the Jedi from the galaxy’s history (maybe he knew that from the get-go, but had a change of heart). So, instead of turning the rest of the map in, he hid it. Then the Archeaologist went into hiding, or died, or was killed, basically the Empire never had a chance to extract that information from him.
All of this would have predated the Battle of Yavin.
So, years later Luke and Lor San Tekka discover the greater Map, and go on a journey to find the last Jedi temple themselves, or find the missing piece that could lead them there. However, before this quest is ever complete, Ben destroys Luke’s Jedi Temple. Luke goes into exile and the people who knew him are only left with the knowledge that he was going to search for the First Jedi Temple.
It is possible Luke found the missing piece of the map, but since Luke presumably traveled to Ach-To without an astromech droid, I think Luke used a combination of his existing knowledge, plus allowing the Force to guide him, to be able to reach Ach-To.
Lor San Tekka, on the other hand, continued looking for the missing piece of the Archeaologist’s map and eventually found it, which is where The Force Awakens starts.
Is there anything that would contradict this? Is there a better idea you’ve heard?
I’ve edited/cleaned up Scene 38 for anyone interested:
That’s a hell of a lot better. Just needs some color grading adjustments to both the new and original footage, to get it to fit together and up to standard. That blu-ray footage looks god-awful, I wish the original guy had at least regraded it.
Still, I think if it were to be put into the the actual film, I would still tone down the over the top elements of the new footage.
You’re making me think some of this might be useful for an edit after all.
It is a pretty cool fan film, but I don’t think this could be seamless at all with the existing footage. Maybe two or three shots (Obi raising his saber to his face, the quick Obi spin, Vader killing Obi), but it still would stand out like a sore thumb imo.
At least for this Remastered edit, I think at most he could modify the existing footage. Maybe he could add blue/red saber glows to the duel, more cuts on the walls, maybe the nearby damaged lights could flicker off to make it look a little more dramatic, maybe he could add the saber reflection in Vader’s eyes when he says “You should not have come back”.
If the intention is to make some dated parts of the film be more appealing to a modern audience, those might be ideas that could be implemented without just totally replacing big chunks of original footage.
While Petro is replacing original ship special effects with new visual effects, I think it still works because there is a clear separation between space and non-space shots.
But he may want to use that, or he’s mainly focusing on just the ships/lasers and stuff.
Concerning Lucasfilm- I am annoyed they are stuck to Star Wars. I know this is an unpopular opinion for a star wars site… but George Lucas created his two big franchises from nothing. Why does his company have to stick to just Star Wars? Why not make a new franchise and market it as the “third Lucasfilm property” alongside SW and Indy?
I agree with this! I mean I’m all for more Star Wars and Indy, but why not play around with some brand new potential IPs? Something fantasy, like a new Willow? A pirate film based off the Monkey Island games? Or something totally new.
I think a motto Lucasfilm could stick to would be the reason why Lucas wanted to make movies like Indy or Star Wars in the first place. They were inspired by the kind of stories he had growing up that he felt kids in the 70s-80s needed. There are so many types of movies now, but maybe Lucasfilm could try to fill a creative void for something we’re craving that we don’t even realize yet.
Nev, I like the ending shots! Good idea to use that extra shot to make it fit with the music. Totally dig it.
I wonder if there are some effects you could add to the “dream shots” that wouldn’t be over the top. Throwing out ideas, what if you played with the stuttering frame effect of the Dagobah cave, or the wispy vignette of Anakin’s ROTS dreams?
So in a hypothetical TLJ edit for you, you might have Rey reach the Jedi Village, then she’d hear the hut door slam maybe? Having Rey dream of an idealized Luke at the end of TFA, but then our first real intro to Luke is him holding himself up in his hut like a hermit, you’d still be getting that subversion Rian wanted without being beholden to how JJ ended TFA.
That’s okay! Honestly there are and will be a lot of different versions of ANH edits, so I think you should follow your instincts on this to make your version stand out. I think it is gonna look great and it will be cool to see these classic scenes in a new way!
Yeah, JJ was pretty up front about meeting with George. Now, it was probably just one meeting, but probably enough to discuss the script and George’s general idea of what themes he thinks are important to close out the trilogy. I picture something like one of those discussions Lucas would have with Filoni and the Clone Wars writing team.
Obviously George had discussions with JJ and Kathy on TFA. At least the first few months of pre-production when he was somewhat involved with the Visualization stage, and then overtime the film became a little more nostalgic as production continued, which George didn’t like. But certain ideas of his were carried over.
In the TLJ doc, we hear that George met with Rian during the pre-production phase of the movie, but there’s no telling how much was discussed and how much of their meeting was actually about the movie itself.
All the filmmakers have definitely talked to Lucas though. It’s a pipe dream but I would really like to get ‘Making Of’ books down the road so we can learn the deets on the trilogy’s development.
That is a serendipitous coincidence that the dream could fit there. I do think this version is pretty vague to work as-is. I think people might be confused and not immediately realize it is a dream.
It’s a challenge. To play devil’s advocate (like I have been doing to you a lot lately! Sorry if it is becoming annoying!), I think the more that is added, the more you’re spacing out the climax from the end of the film, and I think ending would work better if we were moving more briskly from Starkiller blowing up, to the Resistance Base, to the ending. On the other hand, it might work for your version though since you’re cutting the Jedi Steps (at least physically).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5b0cxF8HOE
Love this channel, and this video in particular. I’m sure some fanedits could use these models to great effect.
I love EC Henry. Such a genuine guy who is clearly passionate about the content he shares with his channel. This particular video is great, I agree. I feel like those particular models could be used to either to replace the blurry models in some kind of remastered edition, or potentially to supplement the fleet’s size in certain ROTJ shots maybe.
At first I thought the Resistance Reborn novel was going to be a young adult novel, but it actually listed as an adult novel. Which makes me think the content will be a little more substantial.
The comic run about Leia trying to recruit Mon Calamari to the Resistance sounds pretty interesting too. If you’re a Mon Calamari fan, you should definitely get into the comics. There was an arc in the Darth Vader comic about the Empire attacking Mon Calamari right after the end of the Clone Wars, then in the Star Wars run there was an arc about the planet joining the rebellion shortly after a New Hope. So those two arcs, plus this new arc, we’ll have three glimpses of Mon Calamari during each trilogy, and how this one planet played a major role in the power dynamics of the galaxy.
I hope overtime we’ll get plenty of content that takes places in this new time period. I want to spend time here, where we can see how Kylo Ren rules as Supreme Leader, fighting a resistance movement led by his own mother.
I normally don’t watch SW animated shorts, but i read about this one on another forum. Published yesterday. Lapti Nek! (And, I think, a representation of the reasonably sized palace door from the OUT Jedi.
Holy crap, the way it zooms in on 3PO at the end. That actually made me laugh! I really like these little shorts, and Jabba was genuinely creepy in it too.
Which version of Lapti Nek is that?
Crawl looks good, man!
^good point! Honestly the way R2 wakes up is one of the silliest things of the new movies of you think about it. It is just surprising no one was like, “wait, how did R2 wake up?” And the only reason I think they got away with it is because a lot of people thought that it might be explained in the next movie!
This is cool! I’m digging the nighttime matte you’ve made.
What you’ve done so far is impressive work, although I’m still not 100% sold on the Rey/BB-8 stuff, but it could be my own bias. Unrelated to the vfx work so far, I guess it doesn’t feel totally like it actually fits in with the movie yet. Like it isn’t completely seamless logically.
That shot definitely has a modernized vibe without sacrificing the practical effects! Pretty cool!
How would say your Remastered will differ from Adywan’s Revisited? Just different personal interpretations? I know you mentioned earlier that you don’t want to change that much, but you will be updating the special effects. I guess I’m curious in more of the changes/ideas you have for your edit.
Anyway, really liking the look!
Going back to IX, I had some other thoughts regarding Snoke’s function in the ST.
All of the speculation surrounding the Palpatine has made people wonder if Snoke was a servant, vessel, or rival to him.
Looking back at some early concept art from the TFA book, you can see three antagonists appear pretty early in the book: Jedi Killer, Uber, and another character that appears to be Darth Talon.
George was a big fan of Talon when she appeared in the Legacy comic series, and he wanted LucasArts to somehow shoehorn her into a Darth Maul that was subsequently cancelled during the Disney acquisition. In the Art of book, there are four storyboard panels titled “The Seduction”. The first panel shows a young Jedi saving a female twilek from cantina thugs, the second shows them walking together, the third they are sharing a bed after having slept together, and the fourth shows the twilek standing in the threshold of the bedroom while the Jedi appears to be under some kind of duress (possibly Force-induced).
I had assumed Talon was just an early version of the Jedi Killer, but I’ve also been wondering if that Jedi is actually the Son of Solo, and this is how he became evil. He was literally seduced by the dark side. Art of Talon appears a few times in the book.
There is another image of Darth Talon standing in front of a dark, ethereal creature who we can assume is Uber. The piece is titled “Darth Talon, Dark Side of the Force”. The description McCaig gives is, “The tattoos [of Talon] are a lot simpler. They follow a rhythm and they flow. And that’s the evil thing puppeteering her from behind.”
I’ve just always assumed this Talon was cut from the story and the Uber character ended up becoming Snoke, and I think that’s partly true. But, do you think if Palpatine returning was in fact intended from the beginning as Kennedy suggests, is it possible this ethereal Uber “puppetmaster” character was actually disembodied Palpatine, and Snoke served Darth Talon’s function as the “seducer”?
Snoke clearly played a big role in Ben’s fall to the dark side, but instead of literally seducing him, he became much more like a Palpatine type of manipulator. I believe I read somewhere that Snoke was at one point considered to be a female character, so maybe this is what they meant by that.
If Snoke was truly intended to never be the big bad, it would also explain why pulled imagery from the Wizard of Oz, a larger than life hologram in TFA, the Man Behind the Curtain symbolism with the red curtains burning down after Snoke’s death.
This is all wild speculation and obviously things change so much over the course of story development that trying to connect the dots is like playing pin the tail on the donkey, but it is fun to think about. If Sidious is back and not just a haunt or hologram, I’m still not sure if Snoke was knowingly serving him, or was a vessel for his spirit, or something else. I still believe it is the simplest answer: Snoke was his own guy, and if Palpatine is manipulating Kylo Ren, he merely positioned him to become his apprentice and eliminate this rival before he came back physically. (Snoke is just another rival, like Mother Talzin in the Clone Wars)
I’m still a little nervous about how they pull this off because resorting to another Big Evil Guy was not what I was originally hoping for. But it could work.
And from what I understood they only had concept art for Grievous to go off of, so they had to invent his personality on their own.
But to be fair, I understand why George wanted to make this General character a mustache-twirling villain that runs away and gets beat over and over. It fits into that villain archetype of old serials. I don’t think people would have been as disappointed if Grievous had just been set up that way in the micro-series as well.
Growing up I always rationalized the characterization difference as Grievous being pretty powerful right after his transformation, but slowly became weaker as his remaining organics struggled to exist within his cyborg body.
You should hop over the Prequel Radical Redux Ideas thread, Pan! I know versions of your idea have been suggested before.
Basically, the Clones aren’t a mystery, and Obi-Wan just goes to inspect them in AOTC instead of just discovering them.
You would have to change a few things, since Padmé was voting against the creation of a Grand Army of the Republic. But if the army is already being created, you would need to make it where she is trying to do something else. Maybe she is just a leading voice in trying to find a diplomatic solution to the Republic/Seperatist arms race?
You also would have to figure out what Obi-Wan will do for the majority of AOTC, since you would have to rework the mystery plot.
Maybe the general structure of the film could remain the same, but alter the Kamino scenes so the Clone army isn’t a mystery to him. Basically, the death of Zam/the saber dart could lead him to Kamino, where he finds out that the bounty hunter he is after is actually the template for the Clone Army. Maybe the connection between the Clone Army, Jango and Dooku would be less suspicious since the Clone Army isn’t a secret.
I’d definitely suggest continuing this conversation to the Prequel Radical Redux Ideas thread. https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Prequel-Radical-Redux-Ideas-Thread/id/9911/page/1
There are general idea threads for all three trilogies, but maybe we should make a general Skywalker Saga Ideas thread too!
Yeah, I think Filoni was initially reluctant to bring Maul back, but it came from George.
I also am not sure if George wanted the Jedi Killer to copy his look from Vader, but it does seem like the Jedi Killer was meant to be the son of Han and Leia (which was revealed to the Visualists in Summer of 2013). It is possible though that was a Michael Ardnt idea. But the Jedi Killer being the grandson of Darth Vader at least rationalized the character’s desire to emulate Vader, even in appearance.
Here is a part of the interview with the Dark Empire author.
TOM: Our original proposal was to bring back Darth Vader’s costume and mask, with somebody else inside it. We felt the Empire would want to maintain the fearsome image of Vader and wouldn’t much care who was wearing the armor and breathing mask. George vetoed that idea (although he did allow us to have Vader appear in dreams and memories). He said, no, you can’t bring back the Vader costume…but if you can figure out how to bring back the Emperor, that’s o.k.
The obvious way to bring back the Emperor was with cloning, which George immediately approved.
Now, Zahn has said in an interview that bringing back the Emperor goes against the story of Return of the Jedi, where we see the Emperor destroyed by Darth Vader. But Zahn misses something essential about that scene: When the Emperor dares Luke to “strike me down”, he seems utterly indifferent to his own death! He feels that whatever the outcome of this confrontation with Luke, he, Palpatine, will conquer.
http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/08/interview-with-dark-empire-writer-tom.html?m=1