RogueLeader

amobex said:

It’s hard to keep objectivity after a while. Here’s a test of the idea. Let me know what you think because I might just have to render out a V2.1 of my edit for this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_vnit8T_z1A9Z7QJDN5lTvlPG9S6KoU-/view?usp=share_link

Cheers!

Even though I wish we would have gotten Finn/Poe, this feels totally seamless and would totally work for an edit.

Please tell me there are no politics.

Regarding episode 11, there were a lot of things I loved about it, but I think the highlight for me was Genevieve O’Reilly’s acting. I understand some people feeling like Mon Mothma’s scenes are feeling repetitive because they all take place in her house, but man, I really love this dynamic they created with her and her family. Seeing the hard choices she has to make is so interesting to watch. And I think Mothma dealing with the realization that even though she is fighting for a better, more just galaxy for not only the people of the galaxy, but also her daughter, only to see her daughter embrace conservative and traditional ideology of her home world that Mon appears to despise. It is tragic, and adds so much to the leader of the rebellion that we previously knew so little about.

I mean, Genevieve is literally just talking about money laundering but her performance, damn, the emotion you see behind her eyes. You can feel the weight she has on her shoulders. The risk she is putting herself and her family in, and the cost of solving that problem… wow, just the way she looks at her daughter in that final shot of her.

EDIT: Also, I’m sick atm and on medication, so I don’t know if this was some speculation I read online or an idea that popped into my own drugged up brain, but…

…for some reason I have this idea that Maarva’s brick will not only be mixed with her ashes, but some explosive substance, and used as some form of sabotage against the Empire. It would be a cool way to give her the last hurrah even in death. Cool world building btw.

I get the what Octorox is feeling about Andor missing the escapism of Star Wars and Empire. The way I see it, I guess a more in universe perspective, but I kind of associate the fairy tale and space opera aspects of Star Wars with the Jedi and the Force. The Force is magic, and Jedi are wizards. During these dark times, the magic is dead and the wizards are all gone. It is bleak because that spirituality, faith, and hope has been snuffed out. While it might not have a great ring to it, this is why I think A New Hope works well as a subtitle for the original Star Wars film. With Obi-Wan and Luke, the mysticism is returning and the universe comes into form as a space fantasy.

For me, that is how I feel like you can have a more grounded show like Andor, as well as a fairy tale like the Original Trilogy, and they can coexist fairly well.

And to me, it adds weight to the importance of the Jedi, and they’re importance as a symbol of individuals who can make the impossible happen. Clearly we see this best exemplified with Luke Skywalker in the OT and ST.

EddieDean said:

Maybe the New Republic is simply struggling after the fall of the Galactic Empire? The Republic slowly and then quickly transitioned its governmental apparatus into becoming the Empire, ruled under extreme military bureaucracy for twenty years, then collapsed. A New Republic wouldn’t necessarily have recovered to anything like the strength of the old Republic in that time.

This is sort of my line of thinking. Ignoring whatever canon says and just describing on way I like to interpret it: The New Republic sphere of influence is not as wide as the Old Republic’s was. I imagine the many worlds in the outer rim and the fringes of the galaxy are likely rather isolated from Republic influence. The Republic even had limited reach in the prequels, since Anakin’s mother said that the Republic essentially didn’t exist on Tatooine, and by extension the Outer Rim. Plus, it is possible not all systems chose to rejoin the Republic after the fall of the Empire, choosing to remain independent. So I imagine the New Republic might be, at most half the size of the Old Republic. Maybe 3/4 after 30 years of peace.

I imagine that over the decades, a lot of the Republic’s focus has been on just stabilizing the core and mid rim. They’ve probably tried to regrow their borders by either A) improve relationships with independent systems to try and get them to join/rejoin the Republic, and B) support resistance movements within Imperial Remnant territories in order to help liberate them and bring them back into the fold of the Republic. Our Resistance from the sequel trilogy being just one movement in particular that happens to be active in the territories of the First Order.

But I think one good way to address the Republic’s absence from the narrative is to play up the mystery of the First Order. What I mean by that is that the Republic should not know the scale of their power. The idea that they might have a super weapon shouldn’t even be on their radar. I think Poe’s surprised reaction to the inside of one of their Star Destroyers is a good display of this idea. He is almost in awe, like he had no idea the extent of the First Order’s resources.

Plus, if the First Order isn’t directly threatening the New Republic, then it makes sense why their guard would be down until it was too late. It really just a matter of finding ways to play that idea up. Like going with a word like mysterious to describe the First Order, rather than evil or sinister. I mean, as soon as we see stormtroopers we’ll know that they’re evil, so a different adjective might be more useful in the crawl. So yeah, something like mysterious, secretive, elusive, etc.

A word like radical, militant, fanatical could also paint a more descriptive picture than just evil as well. Though it may not help downplay the threat they pose to the New Republic.

Also, I imagine that people have to know who Luke is, and who the Jedi are. Rey knows who Luke Skywalker is, and she knows what a Jedi is, but people don’t know if he is still around, or if the Jedi are real, in the sense that they have magic powers and aren’t just some ancient religion.

Something like this lines up well with the motivations of the First Order that we see in the film. They are hunting down any trace of Luke Skywalker. It seems like the main reason Snoke has invested in the Starkiller project is to find Luke’s whereabouts and literally blow it up from across the galaxy. Using it to destroy the Republic seems like an afterthought, or a plan B. Not for Hux and the First Order, but for Snoke it seems that way. He clearly felt Luke was a more existential threat to his power than the Senate, which turned out to be true.

But yeah, it makes sense that the New Republic wouldn’t really respond dramatically to this this statement from the First Order. It definitely makes the New Republic’s lack of apparent concern with the First Order make sense too. Like, the First Order isn’t making a public statement against the New Republic, nor is the crawl suggesting that the Republic knows about the superweapon, which would also make them seem incompetent. For all they know, the First Order is just a overzealous Imperial remnant in a far flung corner of the galaxy. And why should they care about their anti-Jedi decree? Most people have never met a Jedi. But some Senators, like Leia, know Luke. And those Senators, and others like Lor San Tekka, take a personal interest in this threat against him and the restoration of the Jedi.

And it comes out tomorrow! Doesn’t seem like it will be a big thing, “Grogu and the Dust Bunnies”. A cute little short. But maybe we will see more if there is a lot of positivity around it.
Also, rocknroll, do you know how many of these projects have been officially confirmed by Lucasfilm and how many are reports? I feel like it is a running gag at this point about how Lucasfilm announces a project only for it to go nowhere, but I am curious how many of those are just insider reporting. I mean, it isn’t unusual for filmmakers to work on projects with studios only for them to never get off the ground, but regardless it seems like there are a high number of them coming out of Lucasfilm.

G&G-Fan, don’t know if this is you, but someone mad a long-ass post on the Star Wars subreddit, r/MawInstallation today, basically defending the same idea you were. Thought it might be worth sharing here since it is relevant to the thread!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/ys4avb/the_jedi_were_the_good_guys_of_the_prequels/

EddieDean said:

Haha, that’s beautiful!

I tell EVERYONE I’m into editing - “So, you should be aware, I’m a huge nerd and there’s like this one Star Wars cartoon that wasn’t as good as a bunch of other stuff, so I spent two years turning 137 variable quality episodes into 46 good ones, I promise I’m cool as well though.” I’m always holding up Ascendent as the pinnacle of what he community achieved.

Honestly I don’t blame you for sharing that with people! I think your version is basically definitive for anyone who doesn’t want to sit through the entirety of TCW. Really you did it for the convenience of people who either 1) The uber fan who loves rewatching Star Wars media but maybe doesn’t want to sit through all of it, or 2) someone who likes Star Wars and wants to get caught up, but again, doesn’t want to sit through the whole series. The second kind of person wouldn’t know about this convenient project you made unless they got lucky and stumbled across it or a bigger fan told them. You’re just spreading the word!

So I was at a house party awhile back having a nice conversation with someone about movies, and the conversation ended up straying into fan edits. Turns out they had seen that Royal Ocean Film Society video that talked about Ascendent and they were interested in checking it out. It was a wild moment for me, because I was able to say, “Oh really? I actually contributed to that project!” They said, “No way!” and we geeked out about it for the next 20 minutes. It was a funny moment because, for some reason, telling someone else about my fan editing hobby felt like revealing my secret identity. It’s something I don’t really talk about with people IRL, so it was weird seeing this community and my personal life intersect like that.

My mind was on that tonight so I went back and was rereading the thread a little bit, just admiring the collaboration and enthusiasm for different things we added, like the force ghosts or the puppet show. I can’t believe it has already been over a year since we made the puppet show. I thought it was this summer! Time really flies.

I hope that one day another thing will come along that will get people excited to collaborate again. Hope everyone is doing well!

Dude I read this and was like, “WHAT?! A Ghibli collab?!?” That was new to me, but just realized that this is a new announcement.

I’ve made my mind a sunless space
I share my dreams with ghosts

It’s really hard for me to sit down and list out all of the things I’m enjoying about the show. I never posted a message about the previous episode, but I love how Diego Luna played up the sheer panic Cassian was experiencing when he was slowly coming to terms that he was gonna be stuck in that prison for at least six years. I mean he didn’t do anything and he is trapped in hell now.

Andy Serkis was a pleasant surprise! I had no idea he was appearing in this. And his acting has been fantastic. As others have said, him slowly accepting that him playing by the rules meant absolutely nothing was fun to watch.
I really felt bad for Ulaf. It’s a small detail but I like how the rest of the table was more concerned with helping him and encouraging him rather than being mad that he was slowing them down. I’m sure that a part of them was bothered by it, but they never blamed him for it. It was nice to see that bit of humanity in such a terrible environment like that.

Syril is such an interesting character. I think someone may have said this but his character is like an anti-Dale Cooper. He loves the law, just like Coop does, appreciate a good suit, but just replace the FBI with the ISB. Completely self-centered instead of the selfless special agent. Both kinda pale, square jaw and slicked back dark hair. I love it.

His scene with Deedra was a bit surprising. A part of me would be happy and not surprised if Syril got some karma for his naïveté, but a part of me would love to see a fucked-up romance between the two characters. Or the very least, Deedra using him a completely loyal servant while never reciprocating that admiration he holds for her. The way Deedra’s assistant kept being a little too proactive makes me think she is going to want to replace him. Who better than someone who vowed to never lie to her?

I love how we’re really getting to expand on Mon Mothma as a person. I mean, she is the leader of the rebellion and we only got one scene in the OT with her and her importance is never really highlighted. She’s not a part of the Skywalker family but she is in the center of this battle for democracy. Interesting to see her journey develop.

Cooling getting to see Saw again. It was a real pleasure getting to see Skarsgard and Whittaker act together.

My whole take on the prisoner transfer mistake is similar to Nev’s. One of the facilities we saw during the approach to Cassian’s prison is probably an even higher security prison for the people who will prisoners for life. We kind of saw how short-handed the guards are when Cassian was brought in, so they likely just slipped up and thought he was coming in instead of going out.

A part of me also wondered if this is a new thing, maybe since PORD they have decided to keep the prisoners. So the orders came in that his prison sentence started over, they put him back on a different floor that had a space that needed filling without considering how the prisoners would react. So they killed the whole floor once they began to riot. Now they have to figure out how they are going to handle it going forward.

I think this is the first time I’ve seen an idea like this suggested. One one hand it allows you to not make them technically siblings with the least amount of trimming to the film, but I can see how Luke still calling Leia his “sister”, even if it is meant as spiritual sister, could be a little confusing for a viewer.

I wonder if in ESB, Yoda could say, “No, there will be another” or, “No, there will be others.”
You could take it from his line, “You will be.” Plus, it would take the weight off WHO is the other, when it could be interpreted as Yoda saying that another hero will eventually rise to the occasion. He is 900 years old, after all, so this isn’t the first hero he has trained. I don’t think having Yoda say he will choose another is totally necessary, and this might be a little more straightforward. Because how would Yoda know that Luke would “choose” another before he potentially dies? I suppose it might help get the idea across, but we already know Luke and Leia have a special connection. And that is enough to explain why Obi-Wan would call them twins in the Force.

Really, the whole “there is another” line, and having to tie up that loose end by making Leia the other, all functions narratively as a sort of red herring. We just need to believe that Luke isn’t the last hope, and that if he dies or turns, the story could go on. So we are told there is another, and that Leia is that person, but since Luke succeeds we don’t really get a resolution to that potential back-up.

I remember doing an edit to ROTJ where Luke senses Leia getting shot, and that brings his feelings to the surface, allowing Vader to read his mind and discover the secret he’s hiding. If you wanted to play up there connection a bit more you could potentially do something like that. Maybe Vader could say, “Sister. So, you have a twin in the Force.”

I do see the strength of making their bond ambiguous, because the viewer could choose to interpret that as them being biological siblings or spiritual siblings. If the kids bothers you, then this would make it less weird since you can interpret this as them not being actually related.

I think if this was something I was going to change, I would just make Luke’s sister someone we never meet onscreen, like the original plan was. Definitely for a “what if Return of the Jedi was the end of the saga?” edit.

That is all fair G&G! And good point about the question of the original post for this thread. I do agree with you that it does seem like Lucas has the view of Jedi are generally right, and most of the responsibility rests with Anakin himself.

I always was bugged by the Sequel Trilogy never really exploring how the Jedi were going to grow and evolve to keep history from repeating itself. I’m kind of curious what you’re thoughts are on this, but do you think the Sequel Trilogy is actually being pretty faithful to George’s view of the Jedi by having Luke admit that his opinions on the Jedi were wrong in TLJ, and by having Rey just affirm the Jedi path rather than ever suggesting she is going to reform it in some way?

And even though I personally wanted Ben Solo to survive TROS, I suppose having him give his life to save Rey also makes a statement on Lucas’ whole “selflesses vs selfishness” theme. Anakin loved Padmé, so much so he couldn’t accept living without her. So that represents that selfish, possessive love. Whereas Ben also loves Rey, and for most of the trilogy does want to possess her, but in the end he does what Anakin couldn’t, and displays this literal act of selfless love, accepting that in order for her to live he can’t be with her. Definitely not trying to say the ST is brilliant by any means, but I might could see how this fits with what George’s opinions actually were regarding what it means to be a Jedi. But I think George probably would’ve thought of a more inspired ending than just blowing up Palpatine again. Maybe I’m wrong though.

Also should’ve realized you were a Spider-Man fan! Not really related to this thread but I wanted to share this thought with you:

When I saw No Way Home in theaters, I really wished the two after credit scenes had been two scenes of the the other two Spider-Man back in their own universes. With Andrew, we would’ve seen him meet or run into his version of MJ, kind of implying that he will be able to finally find love in. I’m not 100% what we could’ve gotten with Toby, but I like the idea of him with a son or daughter, and seeing MJ come home and realizing she is the mom, and maybe he is gonna retire the suit and settle down now or something. Idk, it could’ve tied into that idea that even though Tom is letting Zendaya/MJ go for now, that a universe will find a way to bring them back together eventually. It also would’ve given a nice epilogue to both Andrew and Toby’s version of the characters. Even though we didn’t get to see that, it’s kind of my head canon (though honestly I’m not a big MCU fan so I don’t have a lot of those). I do agree with you about the Captain America time travel thing and the Spider-Man villain idea you have. Makes the most sense.

I appreciate G&G-Fan pulling from the good tumblr post showing that Filoni’s interpretation of the films isn’t always the same as Lucas’. It is a good reminder.

But I do think it is interesting that Filoni, who has worked closely with George and probably knows George’s opinion on his own work more than anyone, would still have his own opinion about Qui-Avon and the failings of the Jedi even though he would know better than anyone that it doesn’t gel with George’s own view.

I think there is truth in both perspectives, not only George and Filoni’s, but also G&G and yotsuya. Because yes, George has stated his view on the story plenty of times, but it is also valid for the audience to look just at the films and pick up an interpretation. George might have had Opinion A in mind, but he isn’t a perfect filmmaker and may not totally conveyed what he was actually trying to convey. The Jedi come off as quite cold in the films, and operate out of a literally ivory tower. Arguably they have become this way because of Sith machinations and it doesn’t have to do with the Jedi system being fundamentally broken, but whether George meant to do it or not, he does not depict the Jedi as perfect. They are good, but they make mistakes.

And why can’t there be some truth in both views? Why can’t Anakin have failed the Jedi, but the Jedi also failed Anakin in some ways? I think there is a lesson in both directions: Jedi have to confront their fears or otherwise be consumed by them, but a Jedi must also remember that institutions can also obscure the will of the Force if one forgets to listen.

Seem like the debate is getting pretty heated but I’ve seen both views conveyed quite a lot online, and I think both views are interesting and valid.

Yeah true. Kinda hard to find a title that hasn’t been used at some point in the 40+ years of Star Wars media.
And yes, I do agree with you! The quality of the show makes up for the generic title by far!

I really love the actress playing the ISB agent. Just had the perfect face for that role.

Man, the two best scenes this episode have to be between Mon Mothma and her friend, and Cassian and his mom. Wow, the performances we’re getting out of this show are pretty stellar. Really liked the brief, stream of consciousness flashbacks we got of Cassian’s adoptive father. Will be interested to see more of that. Did it seem like to you guys that the young kid running toward the clones was a young Cass, which means Diego Luna as Cass with his father may have been an expression of the memory? Like, Cass was actually younger during that event, but we’re seeing it through the mind of Cass, so in that moment we are seeing him as he is in the present? Don’t know if that makes sense.

The scene between Mothma and Luthen was nice, too. I really liked the the final shot of Luthen as he is thinking while Mothma leaves. A lot of thoughts seem to flicker in his mind. Like he is fluctuating between being confident in his actions and anxious about what’s to come. Getting Skargard for this show was such a win.

I have to say I was a bit surprised by how quickly Cassian’s peace evaporated. Cassian’s arrest felt slightly contrived, but I imagine his contrived arrest may be reminiscent for people who actually have been accosted by the police while trying to mind their own business. “Why do you look nervous?” “Because you’re making me nervous!”

EDIT: Thought I would share this comment I found on reddit related to this thought, “As a Hongkonger this episode ending hit me so hard. It’s just like the real HK police right now, a police state where they can accuse you of whatever they want and arrest you. Also, the Judge only listens to the government and the police, even charging what they want without evidence.”

In this case, Cassian was paranoid because he was guilty of something even if it was unrelated, so it does make sense why this trooper suspected Cassian was hiding something. I kind of wonder if troopers are now incentivized to arrest people who display any inkling of anti-Imperial sentiment in the wake of the robbery. At this point arguing with a trooper might be seen as an act of civil unrest. It would add to the irony of why the trooper seems so eager to arrest Cassian. And now this overreaction from the Empire will create more rebels everyday, just like Dedra and Luthen both talked about.

The six year sentence also seems drastic, but the line from the judge about it used to be six months makes me think sentencing has become more severe as a consequence to the robbery. So there already is some irony in the fact Cassian’s arrest and sentencing may have come about due to his involvement in the robbery, even though him being in his current predicament is relatively unrelated to that.

Also, ending on the brief moment of Syril working at his desk felt like a weird place to end it on first watch. But maybe they were trying to draw a parallel Cassian’s prison sentence with what probably feels like is a prison sentence to Syril.

With just how many interesting characters and world building we’re getting beyond Cassian’s own story, it makes me wish they would’ve abandoned the Disney+ titular character naming convention for their shows and called this series something like Shadows of the Empire. Would’ve been a lot more fitting.

I can see how Jyn’s passiveness can be seen as less of an issue by being focused more on Cassian, but I think making Jyn a more active protagonist would benefit Cassian in the long run, too.

Just like how the characters Cassian interacts with in Andor are molding him into the rebel we’ll see in Rogue One, Cassian also sort of molds Jyn into a rebel that believes in the cause, just like him.

Really, the biggest change to Cassian’s story in this version would be that Draden doesn’t tell him to kill Galen until they are on their way to Eadu, rather than before they leave for Jedha. I think this might work better because it holds off on this story element until it becomes relevant (when they actually are on their way to rescue/kill her father). I nice little “oh shit” moment to jump into this act. I also would slightly change their argument after they escape Eadu, so it ends with Cassian saying, “You’re not the only one who lost everything. Some of us just decided to do something about it” which I’m hoping will highlight this moment as the inspiration Jyn needs to give her speech to the Rebel Council. Instead of Jyn saying, “You can’t talk your way out of this”, her not saying anything in response might make it seem like Jyn actually is starting to see the point he is trying to make. The way the conversation ends, it seems like Jyn would be fed up with the Rebellion for being responsible for her father’s death and wouldn’t put the effort into trying to work with them. With this, the scene ends with Jyn soaking in Cassian’s words, which kind of makes her realize that regardless of what happened on Eadu, she has to do something and make a case to the Rebellion so her father’s death isn’t in vain. At least that’s the idea.

I’m not sure how I will do it yet (perhaps with BTS and unused trailer footage), but I would also like to make it where Cassian is present for that speech. I like the idea of Cassian being there to hear Jyn repeat his words “Rebellions are built on hope” and to see how he has had an impact of Jyn’s change of perspective throughout the movie. It could just help bring Cassian’s journey full circle in a way. And then after her speech he puts that crew together for the mission.

I agree that two episodes make the most sense. I’ll have to play around with breaking it up and see what feels like the most natural place to split the film. And yeah, Andor might inspire me to try to bring the tone more in-line with the series, when possible. If you end having any thoughts regarding that as the series continues feel free to share them!

Yeah, I know the inclusion/exclusion of the Vader hallway scene will be a matter of debate. On one hand, it feels gratuitous, and I kind of like the idea of not really a proper glimpse of Vader until A New Hope. Though the second season of Andor could change that, who knows. And it is kind of funny to think that will go to this badass hallway scene to the more toned down duel between Vader and Obi-Wan. I also kinda like the idea of fading to white with the explosion, and fading back in to the white halls of the Tantive IV.
On the other hand, I do like how it highlights the mission as this baton pass between these rebels that history will forget. Again, maybe I could just make it so the data tape being passed along is less obvious to Vader. If that rebel doesn’t shout “Take it!” you could argue that Vader may have not noticed a data tape being handed off at all. And the edit might always feel like something is missing without it. It’s something to think about. At the very least, I won’t have Vader watch it literally fly away.

Yeah, I’ll have to post on the ROTJ community thread and share some more thoughts I have had about it! Would be fun to get something out for the 40th anniversary next year.

EDIT: Will also say that I’m definitely leaning more in the direction of a “less is more” editing strategy for this edit. I feel like dramatic restructuring would require a lot of work and honestly don’t want to waste a lot of effort on this. So most edits would be a matter of cutting/altering dialogue, and trimming scenes here and there in order to convey the story and character changes I want to make. Hopefully someone would watch this, not notice a lot of the changes I made to the story, and be like, “Huh, that was a lot better than I remember it being.” Really the most drastic exclusions I’d consider would be cutting the early Saw/Bodhi scenes, as well as the scene of Krennic visiting Vader.

Resurrecting this dead thread of mine due to Andor. There have been some already solid Rogue One fan edits since the movie has been released, but I have really been loving Andor, so it has given me some ideas for taking the film in a different direction than the edits currently available. If quality of the show stays the same right up until the end of the series, I would like to re-edit Rogue One to act as a new finale for the series, rather than a standalone film.

At this moment I don’t really know if I would keep it as a movie-length finale, or split it into two episodes perhaps. But it would start with the Andor title card rather than have the “Rogue One” title card or an opening crawl, like some edits have given it.

Some of the edits I have proposed in the past regarding the plot and characterization will still be pursued in this version as well, such as making Jyn a more active protagonist as well as making the initial mission just be about rescuing the pilot rather than finding her father.

I also have an interest in minimizing the films contradictions with A New Hope. For example, I want to depict the plan transmissions being “beamed” to the Tantive IV rather than being carried into the ship. That means I would likely remove the Darth Vader hallway scene. I do feel my adrenaline pumping when I watch that scene, but I think it might work better, at least for this version, to cut it. I do think it is kind of weird to depict Vader in this modern, epic, and badass way, but it almost clashes with the way he is depicted in A New Hope. It is pretty toned down in comparison. I like the idea of watching all of Andor, then Rogue One, then the Original Trilogy. With that in mind, I think I would prefer to have Vader mentioned in Rogue One, and maybe see the back of his head as he stands on the bridge of the Devastator at the end of the film, but that is it. In that shot, I would change create new off-screen dialogue for the Imperial Officer speaking to Vader saying, “Sir, their flagship is disabled, but they’re sending transmissions to another ship.” I might rework some Vader dialogue to have him respond with, “Calculate every possible destination along their trajectory”. But if I wanted to have Vader’s first dialogue to be in A New Hope, I could just have the officer say they are tracking it.

My mind might change on this though. If I kept it, I might not have the rebel explicitly tell the other rebel to “take it”, so Vader might not be aware that a hand off is even happening. I also would not have Vader watch the Tantive IV fly away himself probably. But like I said, I might cut the whole scene entirely.

I also think it depends on what is depicted in the last season of Andor, as well. I just like the idea of having a nice flow between Andor, Rogue One, and A New Hope. Because of that, I might do some rescoring, when possible, to introduce some Andor cues into Rogue One, and then have it transition into Giacchino’s score, and then into Williams. I think Nicholas Britell’s score in Andor fits well with the cold, modern tone of the story, whereas Giacchino’s is kind of a middle ground between that and the optimistic romance of Williams’ classical score of the original Star Wars. So the score goes from a more pessimistic synthetic vibe to a more hopeful fantasy feel as we get to the more optimistic space opera of the original trilogy, if that makes sense.

I want this to function as a nice transition between Andor and A New Hope, so if anyone has other ideas for how I can make Rogue One match the tone and “canon” of both the series and SW 77, feel free to share. Anyway, I don’t plan on working on this much beyond brain storming ideas until Andor is complete. I might try to play around with my Return of the Jedi edit more in the meantime, but I just wanted to post my ideas here for reference once I get around to it.

Damn, can’t believe how close you are now! Can’t wait to see it.

Just some thoughts:

• Glad you managed to change the Darth Sidious line! That was an absolutely bizarre choice that I totally forgot about. Seems like no one knows, outside of Palpatine’s small circle, that he is a Sith lord.

• I can understand you not wanting to tackle a Rebels: Refocused. I do see a need for something like it, though, since it seems like that storyline is being picked up in the Ahsoka live-action series. I’m sure there is something like this somewhere, but it would be nice to tag on a recommended Rebels watchlist for people who get into your TCW: Refocused, since the idea is that it is sort of the “abridged required reading” for the live action shows. I know there are some Rebels TV-to-movie edits floating around but I don’t know much about them.

• That book idea sounds interesting! Maybe we should make a book writing thread where can share/encourage each other on writing. I know Nev has been wanting to write something for awhile, and I have too.

Yep, as soon as Halbrand said, “a gift” I knew poppa was right!
I think seeing a lot of people speculate that Halbrand is Sauron online just made me think that there would be some kind of twist to it. It probably worked as a better twist for those who avoided the weekly online conversations! I think in the end a lot of these “Who is who” questions are likely the most obvious answers. I think they were trying to make the Stranger the clear Sauron red herring, but it felt like to me early on that he was Gandalf/Olorin, and the finale makes that obvious.

But the Halbrand=Sauron thing makes sense. It’s mentioned in other works that Galadriel knows Sauron more than anyone else, and that makes sense when you see their relationship play out this way.

I do agree that I wish the actual forging of the rings had played out a little longer, especially considering. Seems like such a significant event and it was kind of quickly brushed over. (Also seems like they should have consulted actual smiths/jewelers regarding how actual rings are made)

Regarding Udun, I felt like the cutaway showing the Numenoreans approaching on horseback was an unnecessary cutaway, and I think it would’ve played out just fine if we didn’t see them until they heard their approach.

I also enjoyed the stuff with the Harfoots. I felt all of the actors did a great job, and there is comfort to watching the Hobbits that feels like a warm blanket.

Also thought I’d share this nice little edit to the Mordor reveal someone shared on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/y4rim3/i_fixed_the_mordor_text_reveal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Do you mean intercutting content from Tales with the first episode of the Clone Wars? It could make the visual quality of the first episode (and first season by extension) stand out more. I could see Ahsoka being found as an interesting cold open to the first episode, but it is possible you’ll want the entire episode.
From my understanding, one episode is about Ahsoka’s force connection being discovered, another episode is a snippet of her early days of training with Anakin, and another takes place sometime after the series finale. Feel like those couldn’t be combined into one episode, but function as prologue and epilogue to the TCW itself, and the training episode as a between-season special episode or something.

The Dooku episodes, on the other hand, probably can be combined into one “season zero” episode rather easily.

Can’t believe you’ve reached the end already!

Lol, always appreciate you trying to keep my ideas grounded Vladius! 😂

Always wanted to say that this is just creative exercise atm. I don’t have any plans to work on any Prequel or Sequel Trilogy stuff anytime soon.

I wasn’t sure if I would’ve ended with broom boy. Regarding Kylo’s fate, there’s an openness to his ending in TLJ that I like. I don’t think Luke believes he is beyond salvation, he just accepts that he can’t be what he was for Vader because of what he did to Ben.

Luke: I came to face him, Leia. And I can’t save him.

Leia: I held out hope for so long, but I know my son is gone.

Luke: No one is ever really gone.

But again, people heard that and still felt that Kylo is past the point of no return. I think that is valid too. And like I said, since we don’t know the fate of the Solo son/Jedi Killer Lucas would have given this character, I liked the idea of keeping it open. Not trying to start another TLJ debate if anything!

Admittedly, this idea has sort of evolved from just a rather simple edit to something a little different.

The idea is kind of inspired by the Greek Epic Cycle. A lot of people know major story beats of the Trojan War, like Achilles’ being shot with an arrow by Paris, the Trojan horse, and the sacking of Troy, but most of that comes from summaries of lost poems that we got from secondary sources. They aren’t actually depicted in the Iliad. So I like this idea of creating a simulacrum of Lucas’ vision of the Sequel Trilogy using the visual medium of the Sequel Trilogy we got.

And even that idea is not perfect, because they obviously don’t have the same visual flair Lucas would’ve given it, and Lucas’s ideas for the ST evolved and changed over time, but it is simply meant to evoke the feeling of what it could have been like. Perhaps using a dubbed or silent movie approach could help use further plot points from we know of his story, but that might take away from the experience for people.

Anyway, just a thought experiment! A part of me thinks it would be fun to give yourself these rules/guidelines of “Here are these Lucas ST story beats. How can we get these ideas across with the available footage that we have?” But there are other edits I would like to work on before I would really consider working on this anyway, so I was just interested to hear other people’s thoughts and ideas too.

Even if TLJ leaves some narrative threads open, I kind of think it stands on its own regarding the thematic elements it has. Even if we don’t see what happens with Kylo Ren, or we don’t the restoration of the Jedi or the Republic proper, we know there are still people that the fight will continue after the film ends, and they will eventually succeed.

I also kind of like the parallels TLJ shares with Le Morte D’Arthur, where King Arthur story ends with a duel with his wicked kin, Mordred, and the ruin of his kingdom, but there is hope that Arthur will return from Avalon one day and restore the kingdom.

Like Arthur, the OT and these bookends could be seen as focusing on the birth, life and death of Luke Skywalker. Ironically, though, I don’t know if I actually would want to show Luke dying in this version. I like the idea of leaving his fate ambiguous, allowing the audience to choose what happens to him. Does Luke die there on the island and become one with the Force, or will he live on to restore the Jedi Order as Lucas intended to depict?

Kind of the same idea with Kylo. I like how TLJ ends showing Kylo “winning” the battle, but losing spiritually. And the audience is left to wonder if Kylo is doomed to the dark side, or if there is still hope for redemption.

Regarding George’s ST ideas, we know that at some point George suggested combining the Jedi Killer character with Han and Leia’s son. So in some version of his treatment, he still fell to the dark side just as he did in the final version of those films, but we don’t know what his fate would have been in George’s version. So leaving Kylo’s eventual fate ambiguous and letting the audience ponder on it fits with what little we know about Lucas’ version of the sequel trilogy.

And the intentional ambiguity of what comes after mirrors the intentional ambiguity of what comes before the prologue. By having ROTS operate as a standalone film, the audience can be left to imagine a version of how Anakin and Obi-Wan met that is more in line with what the original trilogy tells us: Anakin followed Obi-Wan on a idealistic crusade, and Owen thought Anakin should’ve stayed on Tatooine and not gotten involved.
That’s not really what we see in the actual films, but by not showing how they met and coming in on their story in medias res, the audience could choose to imagine the events before the prologue however they want, whether it be more in like with the OT, or how it is depicted in the rest of the PT.