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RogueLeader

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11-Jun-2015
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26-Apr-2019
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Post
#1278812
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

This guy’s is still 3 hours. I dunno, you nitpick something long enough anything’s gonna fall apart. Also, this guy’s brand seems to be all about trashing Disney, and Star Wars in particular. Just doesn’t seem super unbiased. But to be fair I haven’t listened to it yet so I’ll give it a listen sometime. Regardless, thanks for sharing Val!

Post
#1278704
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

NeverarGreat said:

That’s why I don’t have an issue with this scene apart from the inconsistency when compared to the OT - it feels like an almost necessary change for modern audiences. The immediate Force abilities on the other hand…

Yes, and I think this goes back to my perspective that the Force plays a more active role in this trilogy. If you dropped Rey into the prequels or the original trilogy, I don’t think Rey’s abilities would be as significant as they are in the Sequel Trilogy.

I know some people don’t like the idea of a dynamic Force, some people see the Force as more of a “what” than a “who”, but I don’t think you have to think of the Force as a conscious entity. You could interpret the Force as like the immune system of the galaxy, or how an ecosystem adapts to drastic changes in the environment. Just my two cents though.

Post
#1278692
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

It seems Rey has flown before (like the quad-jumper that blew up), but she hasn’t flown the Falcon. Despite that, she seems to be really familiar with the controls and ins-and-outs of the Falcon. From her dialogue it seems like she helped Unkar Plutt make repairs to the Falcon, and was also familiar with the modifications Plutt made that she didn’t agree with.

Post
#1278585
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

I do think that the issue is just coming back to the fact that the audience might not put two-and-two together and remember that Rey saw R2 in the dream, and because of R2’s relation to Luke, it made her realize he might have the rest of the map. Maybe if 3PO could say to Leia, “Rey’s found some much needed good news.”

Veering off in another direction a little. We discussed before the idea of putting the Hosnian destruction right after Rey defeats Kylo, and how I was concerned if the high of the duel’s climax could clash with a somber moment immediately after, and Nev, you speculated on the idea of possibly changing the music to be a little darker and less heroic, if that makes sense.

I’ve thought about this some more, and I wonder if you could possibly replace the latter half of that track, starting with the Force theme as they are fighting for each other’s blades then Rey slices his face, with the alternate track for Han’s death scene? It is basically a darker version of the Force theme, and I think the way that track ends would flow really well into the ‘Starkiller’ track. Not sure if the timing would be right but might be worth experimenting with.

Post
#1278466
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

Yeah, that is a simple change!

How would you reorganize the Snoke scenes again? I feel like I remember you saying at one point you would try to not have Kylo Ren go back to Starkiller until after he gets Rey. So would you drop that idea, or make it to where it is only Hux in that scene?

I’ve been thinking about how you could pull off this idea some more since yesterday too.

Maybe you’ve had a better idea for what this defense system could be, but I’ve been thinking a moon with a large, planetary shield generator would be a good idea. It would basically be the same tech used on Endor to protect the DSII, but a larger scale.

In the first shot of the Falcon jumping out of hyperspace, you could add the moon to the shot of Takodana. Maybe you could generate a new shot of the Falcon flying by it so the audience can get a new look at it, and a new Falcon cockpit interior as they’re approaching the planet. And maybe during the Falcon interior shots, you could add some off-screen comm dialogue like, “You are clear for landing, lowering planetary shield in Sector 49.” Or something like that. Maybe we could see a massive satellite dish on the planet surface. Not sure.

Obviously it needs to be something that isn’t too complicated visually. At with that idea, we’ve seen something like it before on a smaller scale. And again, I’m not sure where you could get the design from besides making it from scratch.

It could just be a giant satellite in space, or a giant gun, sphere, space station floating in orbit, but I think it has to be something that is obviously too big for one Star Destroyer to handle itself, which is why I think making it a moon is a good idea. And it raises the stakes more than if it just destroyed a space station.

Post
#1278445
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

You mean have the opening shot of IX parallel the opening shot of I? That is true! But I suppose that also depends on what the opening shot of IX will be as well.

Until then, I think paralleling ROTJ with TPM would be a good option, since they already share quite a few similarities, like the transport requesting permission to land, an interior cockpit shot, a ship landing in a hangar, etc.

I do think you raise a good point regarding symmetry between all nine films. While there are many parallels between the PT and the OT, the ST reflects the OT (and occasionally the PT) in many ways, I think it raises a question of if the trilogies parallel symmetrically, if that makes sense. Like a ABCDDCBA, pattern, like the Ring Theory posits (if that is a big deal for some). And if it doesn’t, is it possible to edit the films to “rhyme” more within the narrative of the Saga.

Post
#1278406
Topic
The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Making a new opening shot for ROTJ has been discussed before, but I just had a random idea for that.

The opening of TPM parallels the opening shot of ROTJ in a lot of ways, so we could have the ROTJ opening parallel TPM’s and pan down to distant Star Destroyers with the Imperial shuttle already approaching camera, the camera could pan LEFT following the shuttle and then the Second Death Star could come into view as the shuttle flies toward it, away from camera. Like in TPM, the Republic cruiser flies toward camera, the camera pans RIGHT, then Naboo and the Trade Federation ships come into view.

Would be an interesting option without being a drastic change.

Post
#1278401
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Just need to figure out a way to desaturate the planet while keeping the color of the explosions.

Maybe someone could tweak those explosion shots enough to find a good in-between to maintain the explosions color but still be desaturated enough to not make a huge difference from the rest of the shots?

If not, you might have to rotoscope around the explosions to maintain their color. I think it would be worth trying, but I don’t think you’d have to go with the blue star angle, Jakku could just have a different atmosphere or something, like Mars.

I think this, and the potentially more challenging idea of adding MORE wreckage to Jakku are the best methods of differentiating Jakku that are somewhat feasible.

NeverarGreat said:

This would effectively establish Starkiller Base and its range and accuracy using a Rogue One style ‘single reactor’ attack. It would be dramatic enough to substantially raise the stakes, but still modest enough when used on this remote pirate base to justify the Republic’s continued inaction.

This is a cool new idea! Coming full circle. It could fit into the idea of Maz’s Castle being like a safe zone, neutral ground, except instead of just the castle it is the planet. Maybe you could use the subtitled aliens with Finn to provide some additional context for the defense platform as well!

But yeah, it would definitely require some new vfx for sure. I’m not sure how you would do that. And the platform would have to appear significant enough that it would require something as drastic as using a giant laser and exposing Starkiller rather than just attacking it with a Star Destroyer. Like, one Star Destroyer wouldn’t be strong enough to take it out. But they would have to use it in order to get the map.

I do think the important thing would be to make this idea as simple as possible, because if it is too complicated it might be confusing for the audience. So however it works, I would go with whatever is the easiest to understand visually.

EDIT: Establishing Takodana even more as a Switzerland-like neutral planet with some sort of defense would also help explain why Han felt comfortable with waltzing into the castle, since he would think they were safe there.

Post
#1278363
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

I guess that is true, and I think that ties in to my own predictions that not many people will care as much for edits that don’t try to fundamentally change the story, because a lot of people are set on their reasons for not liking the new movies.

Like I think if I eventually do an edit for The Last Jedi, I will try to address some of the issues people had with the film, but I’m not going to fundamentally change the story or the characters to do it. And so what I do still might not be enough for people because they still have the bad taste in their mouths, sort of speak.

Despite that, I don’t think it will stop me for trying to make changes that try to address the issues I feel are reasonable. And I do personally feel the political situation could use a little more detail. So the idea of the Imperial remnants reuniting under a single banner, or briefly hinting at a Cold War between the Republic and the First Order filled with espionage would be cool, maybe something regarding complacency or the Republic being “war weary” might fit the theme better. And maybe you could emphasize that the First Order has been in hiding, consolidating power until the time was right.

I agree with you about the ending of IX, I think it’ll generally be a happy ending, but the fact the Jedi will live on makes me think that the ending will in some way make a point about how evil will never go away, and that there will always been a need for people to fight for good.

This actually fits into the Jungian idea of integrating one’s Shadow, “acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one’s life”. It isn’t just about acknowledging it once and never having to again, it is a relationship that must be maintained. This also parallels Luke, and how just because he acknowledged his shadow at the end of ROTJ, didn’t mean he would never have to again, like he did when he confronted Ben.

Yeah, that’s a good idea too! Sort of like the Venators in the Clone Wars.
The Art of book has given me a lot of ideas for different approaches for visual edits, since it gives you some insight into what the filmmakers were trying to achieve.

Like at one point they mention how “destroying Jedi relics” was a visual theme they kept coming back to. There was concept art of a giant statue outside of Maz’s castle, which was similar to an earlier idea I had about placing Jedi statues in wide shots near the castle to emphasize it as an old Jedi temple.

Both the Art of TFA and TLJ mention the Wizard of Oz quite a few times, and it makes me want Nev, or someone else, to continue that idea of making Jakku look more desaturated and like a purgatory. They wanted Jakku to feel like this miserable place Rey had to live in and I think that would help, plus it give Rey this ‘Dorothy in Kansas’ parallel. But I guess these are more radical ideas, but it seems like most people would have been okay with a little more visual distinctiveness in the new films. It seems to be thing that George Lucas liked about TFA the least.

Post
#1278360
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

Yoda does say, “Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we cannot.”

He also says something along the lines of, “Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess.”

Which, we find out he means literally, but I also think there is a figurative meaning he was trying convey to Luke about Rey’s own abilities and disposition. Basically that she has the right mindset to be a good Jedi.

And I’ve mentioned this before, and I know people disagree with me, but I kind of think a lot of us have just assumed how the Force works without considering that it might be a little more mysterious than we’ve thought.

The Force, through the lightsaber, called out to Rey, even Maz described it as such. The Force called Rey to the Tree on Ach-To. The lightsaber flew into Rey’s hands not because she’s more powerful than Kylo Ren, but because the Force chose her. When Rey lets go of her own desires, the Force is acting through her. The Force has literally awakened, and I feel it plays a more active and obvious role in this story than it may have had in the past.

So the way I see it, it isn’t that Rey just has all these amazing skills. Yeah, she has some piloting, mechanic and survival skills, but that’s from her growing up on Jakku. Her “Jedi” skills are, in my opinion, are based in faith. She starts believing in the Force, especially after Han tells her and Finn about the Force and the Jedi.

I’m not trying to say your guys’ own interpretations are wrong or anything like that, but if you think of it this way it might be easier to rationalize. When I try to picture myself in her position, learning that stories of Jedi I grew up on were real, that the Force is real and that it is calling to me too, it helps me sympathize with how she is afraid of this newfound awakening within her and her desperation to understand it, like she is in The Last Jedi.

And who knows, maybe IX will reveal more to us about Rey, the Force, etc.

Also wanted to say despite my disagreements with OP and some others, I’m glad you guys feel like this is a pretty positive environment to discuss stuff. I might argue with people on here every once in a while, but it is all in good faith and I enjoy talking about it with you all!

Post
#1278323
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

I was flipping through the Art of The Force Awakens tonight and I was trying to think of other ways to make TFA and the ST more visually distinct.

There was this pretty cool concept art piece of red Star Destroyers. This probably would be impractical and time consuming, but it would be cool if Kylo/Hux’s Star Destroyer, the Finalizer, was painted red.

“Rick [Carter, TFA Production Designer] is the guy who started saying, ‘Put a red ship in there. Put a red ship in there.’ I think J.J. has asked for a red Star Destroyer at one point, just to see, on a whim, what that looks like.” - Ryan Church, Concept Art

Post
#1278301
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

It blows my mind a little but I think you’re totally right, Dre. If anything, we would be more likely to get an official release of the OOT because of a few old school fans/professionals over at Lucasfilm who want to see it released, rather than Lucasfilm wanting to appease a fanbase hungry for the OOT, which doesn’t seem to be the case. I only say that because there sounds like some kind of effort internally to maintain/preserve the theatrical versions of the OT, based off a few nuggets of information, like Gareth Edwards mentioning watching it before/during Rogue One’s development, and them using material from Star Wars for the inclusions of Red/Gold Leader in his film. But I’m no expert on the matter.

Post
#1278260
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

Paralleling the ANH crawl with Rebel spies/First Order spies was one thing I liked. I think another reason I had for using it was that if First Order spies were in the Republic/Senate, it helped explain why Leia needed to make a separate, independent organization that could operate without the threat of information leaking.

In the film itself, Finn is worried about being seen by “First Order sympathizers” on Takodana. In Maz’s castle, we do see both a First Order spy and a Resistance spy, so the idea is sort of supported by what’s already in the movie.

Not in the film, but in the “Jakku Message” deleted scene, Snap asks Leia if they should contact the Republic, and she says, “No, we have to be smarter than that.” Which could imply that Leia she was worried about spies.

I think the deleted scene reinserted in Restructured (“Not all the senators think I’m insane”) could work with that angle, or with the “not wanting to star a war” or complacency angle.

I think some criticisms I’ve heard regarding those angles (even spies compromising the Republic angle), is that it makes the New Republic, the government the OT heroes fought to establish, seem like a failure even before the First Order destroys it. But that might be the point, since Luke also failed with his new Jedi Order. Victory wasn’t as final as our heroes might’ve thought.

I do agree that a big theme of the Sequel Trilogy is the cycle of darkness and light, good and evil, war and peace. I guess, like you said, it might be beneficial to try and help make that clearer. Because I think for a lot of people, the transition between what feels like victory in ROTJ, to going back to the same situation by the end of TFA does not feel properly set up or “earned”, I guess.

The idea to add the “inevitably” statement into the crawl is a good idea, although at the moment I’m not sure I have many ideas how to build off of that concept. But I’ll try to think of some more ideas too.

I’m probably going on too much of a tangent as well, but this is sort of why I would like to add a new shot at the end of ROTJ of some Star Destroyers escaping after the Death Star explodes. Knowing my luck, IX probably won’t go in the direction I’m expecting, but I think a part of the issue as to why ROTJ wasn’t the ultimate victory is because they didn’t really solve the Empire problem. The New Republic seems to have failed at trying to reintegrate former Imperials back into society (although in their defense, I guess they didn’t realize a fragment of the Empire went into hiding to bide their time).

To me, it’s not about purging the Shadow, but integrating with it. Assimilation. That’s why I’m hoping IX ends with reunification on some level.

I think another thing is how the Sith have been tied to the idea of ultimate victory. There was a millennia of peace when they thought the Sith were gone, but since they survived in secret, it was only temporary. The whole thing with the prophecy emphasized that once the Sith were destroyed, balance would be brought to the Force (supposedly). Since the Sith were seemingly destroyed in ROTJ, I think people have questions regarding the ST that don’t have answers yet.

I think the cyclical theme you mentioned is definitely true, and suggesting that idea in the crawl might help. Though people might wonder if “inevitably” refers to the cycle of war and peace, or that the New Republic was fundamentally flawed.

I guess after all of this talk, the simplest thing you could do is, like you said, at least give a reason why the Resistance is dealing with the First Order instead of the New Republic. I personally like that “Not wanting to start another war” is at least an understandable reason for their inaction, whereas “complacency” paints them in a more negative light. Out of everything, they are probably the most effective options without changing a lot.

With the New Republic not wanting to start another war, General Leia Organa mobilizes a covert Resistance to counter the rise of this Imperial remnant.

Hoping to avoid another war, the New Republic has secretly mobilized a covert RESISTANCE, under the command of General Leia Organa, to counter the rise of this Imperial remnant.

With the New Republic not wanting to start another war, General Leia Organa mobilizes a covert RESISTANCE to discover if the First Order is secretly preparing for invasion.

Then again, I do see what you’re saying about complacency.

Lately I’ve been reading a lot about fascism, and how complacency can play a part in its rise. To me, the First Order represents fascism, and this in particular reminds me of Finn’s story, and how he learns that if he runs away from the problem, or is just a bystander like DJ, then he is actually a part of the problem.

If we went with the complacency angle, I do think a con of that would be how the New Republic apparently suffered the same fate as the Old Republic. And I think people would want to know why that happened again. And like I said, it might add to that feeling of all of the OT heroes’ victories going down the drain. We all hoped they would make things different, but it turns out they suffered the same fate as their predecessors. But maybe that tragedy is a part of the story, and that is just hard for fans to accept.
I mean if you think about it, Leia never grew up in a democracy, so starting one would be new to her (and her superiors like Mon Mothma might’ve unintentionally brought over problems with the old government), and I can just see Leia seeing the New Republic becoming complacent in peacetime and not being able to do anything about it (especially after her true parentage was exposed). This is another reason I’m hoping Leia survives IX so she can spend her remaining years helping the galaxy finally get on the right track.

So maybe the best options would be something along those lines, or even “failing to convince the New Republic” like Restructured has it. “Unwilling to start another war”, “not wanting to start another war”, something like those. Though if we go with the complacency angle, I could imagine an argument along the lines of, “If the New Republic was complacent or dysfunctional, why should we feel bad when it is destroyed?”

Sorry for this long post. It honestly has just been a stream of consciousness as I’ve thought about this and what you said, and you can probably see how my opinion has changed from the beginning of this post to the end. But maybe my thoughts will give others something to think about too.

I do have a crawl for ROTJ that’s still in-progress.

The Alliance is doomed. After suffering terrible losses, spies loyal to the Rebellion have reported that the Empire nears completion of a new dreaded Death Star.

As the rebels prepare their next move, Luke Skywalker sets in motion a desperate plan to rescue his friend Han Solo from the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.

Little does Luke know that Darth Vader, under the commands of his cruel Emperor, hastens their own sinister plans that will bring about their ultimate victory once and for all…

Post
#1278211
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

I wonder if you could have it where Rey says, “Luke” during one of the shots of R2. You could take it from her conversation with Maz, since you might cut that line.

Also, in the wide shot of R2, BB-8 and 3PO you can’t see any of the tools, but that might be something you could/will fix at a later point.

I am still wondering though if it would be simpler to just cut straight from Rey looking at R2, to them going to Leia about good news, and if adding this extra stuff is making it more confusing or less confusing. I think this new stuff is cool, just trying to look at it objectively.

Post
#1278204
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

Which explanations do you think would be more lore-driven than theme-driven? I suppose reference to Imperial remnants might be lore-driven, but I’d also argue that it could work thematically as well.

If the death of the Emperor, their undisputed figurehead, was kept the Imperial remnants from reuniting, the idea that Kylo Ren, the heir apparent to Darth Vader, could have been used as a new symbol to reunite them is an interesting idea that ties into the theme of unity and power that I mentioned previously, and it could make Kylo Ren the symbolic antithesis to what Luke represents for the Resistance/Republic.

To me, I think it is about finding a nice explanation that feels satisfying and is a believable progression of the story from ROTJ.

It seems like the two biggest questions regarding the political situation are:

How did the First Order get the resources to build a new military without the New Republic doing anything about it?

What is the purpose of the Resistance, and why isn’t the Republic doing anything about the First Order?

These two things, without proper explanation, is what makes a lot of people feel we are back at Rebels vs Empire again. At face value, the bad guys just have new ships, a new army, and a new super weapon, and the good guys are still scrappy underdogs.

Like you were saying, maybe a good idea would be to rewatch The Force Awakens (theatrical or Restructured) and completely ignore the opening crawl, then based off the facts the film itself gives, try to determine what the most accurate explanation would be based off what we are given within the film.

Post
#1278201
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I like that idea too, that R2 just tells the story of the Skywalker Saga very much later on.

But, I think that could’ve been addressed by just having some secondary comic/book/show story about them finding/restoring their lost memories somehow. Could make for a good adventure for Luke to go on after Return of the Jedi.

I guess in my mind, having both of their memories erased (at least during the OT) just solves those questions the PT-OT continuity raises.

But I guess the big three things R2 would know would be who Obi-Wan is, who Yoda is and that Luke & Leia are siblings. Like has been said before, revealing he knows Obi-Wan or Yoda to Luke isn’t really important to him, or just goes along with it. I guess that is why Hal’s idea is good, because then the biggest piece of information R2 knows, that Luke and Leia are siblings, would no longer be an issue.

I still think having both droids’ memories wiped (and possibly restored at a later point) is the the cleaner solution to a lot of the questions, but not having them witnessing Luke and Leia’s birth works both ways.

Don’t worry, Hal, one of us will fix this later! I think I’ll do this for my eventual edits now that you’ve brought it up.

Post
#1278189
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

I think this is the good/bad thing about the political situation in the Sequels.

There are multiple ways we could define and interpret the political situation in general and more specifically within the opening crawls, but according to what we know in the canon, there’s some truth in most of these interpretations.

Let me lay out some of the interpretations:

The New Republic supported the Resistance, but it didn’t support it at the same time.

Seems contradictory, but the truth is that some senators within the Republic (Populists) did support Leia’s Resistance movement, while others (Centrists) did not. So a crawl could say “with the support of the Republic”, or “failing to convince the Republic” and both would be true to a certain extent. Even though Leia didn’t have the Republic’s full support, some Senators did.

I don’t know the source, but I also feel like I read somewhere that some Centrists worlds actually left the Republic and aligned themselves with the First Order a few months before TFA, which seems like a pretty big deal but nothing in the films suggests this, so an editor could either run with that idea or completely ignore it.

That’s what’s funny to me, the theatrical crawl says the Republic supported Leia’s Resistance (openly? secretly?), but in a deleted scene Leia also says, “Not all the senators think I’m insane… or maybe they do… I don’t care!”
This seems to imply the opposite, which lends more to the idea that the Resistance might be more of a rogue movement that doesn’t have the Republic’s official support.

You also wonder what the Resistance technically is. Are they an anti-fascist spy network that is spread across the galaxy, or are they more of an organized militia within First Order space? The latter would make them seem like the French Resistance within Nazi-occupied France during WW2, but the theatrical film seems to imply the former more, so the “Resistance” refers more to their goal of wanting to resist the growing influence of the First Order. But honestly you could probably go with either option and what exists within the film wouldn’t necessarily contradict either interpretation.

As for why Leia formed the Resistance rather than just operating within the New Republic military, you have a few options which all seem to be partially true:

The Republic did not want to start another war (tired of war/preferring diplomacy), and/or they didn’t have enough proof that they were more of a threat than other past Imperial remnants, so Leia took matters into her own hands to prove to the Republic that they needed to take action before it was too late.

The Republic did see a threat, but investigating the First Order for war crimes in an official capacity could be risky (maybe lacking evidence), so the Resistance was meant to be a covert militia to gather enough proof that the Republic to act on (at least some pro-Leia senators had this mindset).

Leia knew there were First Order spies within the Senate feeding information to the FO as well as downplaying their threat to the Senate, so Leia formed an independent covert militia to avoid being spied on, as well as finding another evidence that the First Order was preparing for war against the Republic.

Regarding the First Order, there are multiple ways you could elaborate on them as well. The theatrical crawl just says they have “risen from the ashes of the Empire”, which is pretty vague. Some phrases I have suggested in the past have been that they have “emerged from uncharted space”, more recently “[they] have taken over the remnants of the Empire”.

I think the biggest question regarding the First Order is how did they consolidate power and resources under the nose of the New Republic, and I guess a good crawl would at least hint towards that. Saying that they have emerged from hiding, or have absorbed other Imperial remnants could help explain that. The funny thing is, either interpretation seems to be partially true in canon.

The First Order:
-has been hiding in the Unknown Regions rebuilding their military in secret.
-has absorbed the manpower/resources of most of the remaining Imperial remnants.
-has wealthy benefactors within the Republic supporting them (like pro-Imperials or war-profiteers).
-has spies and sympathizers within the Senate helping downplay their scale and overall threat to the New Republic.
-were being led by a mysterious Force-user powerful in the dark side that helped them navigate the Unknown Regions and used its secrets to help them rebuild.

All of these factor into the First Order’s backstory in canon, as far as I know.

While all of these interpretations of the political situation between the New Republic, the Resistance and the First Order does bring up a lot of interesting ideas and nuance, because none of these things are really defined well in the films, the whole situation seems vague and confusing. While it is good for us that we can find our own interpretations, I think it is a weakness of these films that they don’t just pick one of these interpretations and go with it.

So what we’re stuck with is trying to decide on which direction to go in (and these are only the canon-friendly interpretations, an editor could pick even more). Obviously each editor is going to have their own preference, but it would be nice to determine which interpretations fit best within the story and themes of the Saga and Sequel Trilogy. I guess they all have pros and cons, but maybe it is a matter of finding one that has more pros than cons, if that makes sense.

Post
#1278005
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

While I think that might be the likely answer, I am also starting to think JJ and Co. needed a new big bad to have Rey’s team and Kylo’s team join forces. So to do that, they’re gonna have Palpatine come back. Nothing against Pappa Palpatine, but I think having a third party “Great Evil” is a contrived, or lazy, way to resolve the conflict between the Resistance and the First Order, or more specifically Rey and Kylo Ren. I personally wish they would find a way to resolve the conflict amongst themselves, but it really is pretty early to say what is going to happen (and if it will work/won’t work).

Post
#1278003
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

Funny that you posted this! I actually have been thinking about this as well. A while back I probably wrote a dozen different versions of these paragraphs, and this is where I’ve landed out.

TFA:

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the radical FIRST ORDER has taken over the remnants of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

Convinced that the First Order is secretly preparing for war, General Leia Organa mobilizes a covert Resistance to prove to the New Republic that diplomacy is not an option.

Believing that the Jedi are their key to victory, Leia has sent her best pilot to find her lost brother, Luke, before their dangerous new enemy reaches him first….

The First Order absorbing the other Imperial Remnants could be enough to rationalize their strength, basically that they consolidated resources to help build their new toys.
I think I’m trying to accomplish similar things as you are. “Radical” could be replaced with “mysterious” to further help explain the New Republic’s inaction.

TLJ:

The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated all their leadership, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the fractured New Republic.

Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters can stand against this rising tyranny, certain that the hope Jedi Master Luke Skywalker inspires will reunite the galaxy.

But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward their vulnerable base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape….

Possibly switching around certain terms like “Republic”, “galaxy”, or add things like “allies”, “forces”, etc. might give you a better combo, but I tried to keep the crawls concise and to the point.

Two alternatives for the second paragraph:

Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters stand together against this rising tyranny, certain that the hope Jedi Master Luke Skywalker inspires can reunite their scattered allies.

Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters stand united against this rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker’s return could restore hope to the galaxy.

I guess I am trying to emphasize the Republic as divided and the Resistance as united, and hope is what makes that difference, and Luke is what is needed to restore hope to the rest of the galaxy and reunite everyone. It should all tie back to the main objective, which is Luke. This idea extends to the TFA crawl. And I personally like the dichotomy of unity and power. When the First Order reunifies the Imperial remnants, they acquire the power needed to topple the Republic, which leaves the Republic in disarray and vulnerable. Now, the Resistance is desperate for the hope Luke inspires in order to reunite the Republic and the galaxy and give them the power they need to defeat the First Order.

I also like that you came around to “Chaos reigns”! Personally I think it fits better with the situation: the decimation of Republic leadership has left their remaining forces and allies in disarray, and that chaos is what allows the First Order to invade the galaxy successfully. Really, the First Order won’t reign until they have control of all the major systems, which Rey says will still take weeks to months.

Post
#1277994
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Didn’t The Clone Wars feature Darth Bane talking to Yoda? I never was a big fan of the series but watched that portion as I was delving into it based on a tip from smudger9 that there was some new Liam Neeson dialogue that could be culled for my Ep3 edit.

Anyway, wasn’t the appearance of Bane only a vision or phantom being animated by someone else? My understanding of Lucas’ intention (circa 2005+, at least) is that Qui-Gon (re?)discovered a way to eternal conscious persistence via the Light, which the Dark was incapable of providing. Light-siders could (potentially?) live on past death, but dark-siders couldn’t.

You are correct. Since then, though, some canon material like a Darth Vader comic series and the animated show Rebels have implied that a Sith could find a way to cheat death (not necessarily spiritual immortality, but ways to preserve or bring back their physical bodies, but this never really works out). As others have said, it is possible Palpatine’s spirit is just trapped within the place he died, like a ghost that haunts the ruins of the Death Star. Or, they could just find a hologram or holocron of the Emperor. Whatever it may be, I’m just gonna hope they have a decent explanation for it and try not to worry too much over the little information we currently have. And hey, if we aren’t happy with it, isn’t that what fan edits are for? But yeah, hopefully it won’t come to that, but I am also on the side that it actually isn’t Palpatine reborn, so we can focus on the existing characters. We’ll see I guess.

And how the hell is there that big of a section of either Death Star still extant? Those things each blew up so thoroughly that I find it laughable. Circle any one of the specks that fly away from the center on your screen and tell me that it could have fallen into an atmosphere and survived to be that big.

I also see this as a thing a future ROTJ edit could change (by having the Death Star blow up in chunks). This is something I could see Ady do in Revisited.

JEDIT: This might be sort of a drunk ramble sort of comment, but I’ll be especially frustrated if the Sequel Trilogy as a whole turns out to be flat or bankrupt because its announcement was what prompted an obsessive part of me to pour countless hours into doing my newer prequel fan edits.

Y’know, in the Summer of 2012 I watched the OOT and was happy not to follow it up with the prequels at all. I only did so because my wife wanted to, and we watched Q2’s edits. I shrugged afterward, and resolved to just revisit the OT every few years. I was happy; I was fine. Then in October Disney changed everything and I felt like I had to satisfy my tireless perfectionism by going back to the prequels. If the ST ends up detracting from the OT rather than at least enhancing it, it’s gonna really suck for me.

God damn those prequel movies.

Please don’t think this! The announcement of the Sequel Trilogy inspired your Prequel Edits, but I would argue that your Prequel edits have and will inspire further edits of the Sequel Trilogy. And I think we will eventually have solid, cohesive edits of the entire Skywalker Saga. That is at least my own hope/vision.

Post
#1277990
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Quick idea: paint out the droids during the birthing of Luke and Leia.
It’s the only time R2 and Yoda share a room, and gives some additional ‘plausible deniability’ to R2 about the finer details of Luke’s family tree.

Good idea!

Alternatively, you could have Bail wipe both of their memories by slightly changing his line to, “Have the…droids’ mind[s] wiped.” Maybe just cut to an insert of R2 to hide the dialogue change, cut to 3PO and replace R2’s laughing beeps with sad beeps. R2 has seen just as much as 3PO, and they can pull those memories out of either of them, so why not wipe them both and solve the problem that way?

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#1277989
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

This is pretty cool Nev.

I showed this to someone, who has seen TFA a few times, to see if they understood the intention.

They didn’t totally get it, and thought that maybe Rey and R2 had a special connection, but they didn’t really put it together that Rey remembered R2 from the vision and got him to check his memory for the map.

Just thought I would try to see if another person would understand without your additional context, and at least in this one example the person didn’t fully get it.