RogueLeader

Regarding ghost Anakin having the Tatooine robes, Anakin was from Tatooine so many people have made the argument that it is representing that, not the Jedi uniform. Or, over the few years since the first movie’s release it had become the “Jedi look” due to Obi-Wan’s appearance already becoming recognizable as Jedi, so they just stuck with it for him too.

Perhaps they’ll make some older Jedi sect or faction use the black garb, so maybe Luke had found old holograms of them and based his appearance on those images. Maybe early Jedi history would show a ton of differentiation between different groups. Tython Jedi, Ossus, Jedha, Dantooine, Coruscant, maybe they all were varied, but as time went on they became more homogenized. So the distinction between a Jedi Master, a Jedi Knight, were visually clearer before the prequel robes were adopted by the whole Order, losing some of its meaning. I do like the irony that although the Prequel Jedi had become very monk-like regarding attachment and possessions, they were living in an ivory tower, wearing clean, pristine leather boots, only going on missions at the Senate’s request. I feel like it is fitting, but obviously I’m looking at it from a Watsonian angle. Not arguing that it is just me trying to rationalize Lucas’ decisions.

I was actually thinking about this the back when Tim first starting posting about this. I think it’d be interesting to try and basically create a virtual “studio” in Blender, and animate the ships in a way that simulates the way the Dykstraflex worked. Work within the limitations of that old technology to get emulate the way the ships and camera moved in those classic shots. Then any of us that has some blender experience could just collaborate on making the shots.

I think it would then just be a matter of finding high quality cgi models of the ships to use. Making cgi models is out of my realm of expertise though.

This is something I’ve wanted to revisit as well. The last several years I have been busy with school, but I hopefully will be done by the end of July, and was planning to actually help work on this in the fall.

Since you revived this thread, I thought I’d share what I had been thinking recently.

Most of the time since TROS’ release I have been of the same opinion as you. Keep it clean, and just focus on Rey’s struggle with the dark side. I have liked Nev’s idea about Palpatine lying to her, and I know Jar Jar Bricks has spent a ton of time playing around with potential ways to make Rey Palpatine work (whether it is truth or a lie) that have been really interesting to follow. I think what a lot of the write-ups struggle with is that they become really really exposition heavy.

I also know there are some people that don’t want to totally abandon Rey being a Palpatine because it is canon, and it may become relevant in future films. I think some people that have issues with Rey Nobody feel that the movie feels like it is lacking something by just focusing on her dark side potential.

While I do think I still prefer a strictly Rey Nobody version of the film, if I were to entertain a “Rey Palpatine” edit, I think it could be handled the way Blade Runner 2049 handles the question of whether or not Deckard is a replicant.

Basically, keep it ambiguous, but sew seeds of doubt in Rey (and in the audience). Palpatine could tell Kylo off screen, Kylo could tell Rey but still be skeptical (“But Palpatine lies”), Luke could avoid confirming or denying it, (“Regardless if that’s true-”). Kylo doesn’t have to give this convoluted backstory about how she ended up on Jakku. It can be brief. “Palpatine cheated death, and claims he created life: you.”, “He said he has the power to cheat death… and create life…”, or “He claims that you’re his secret heir, a true Palpatine, destined to take the throne.” Yadda yadda. It would be similar to how Palpatine in ROTS talked about Plagueis having the power to create life, and it sort of hints at him potentially creating Anakin but it is never really confirmed or refuted in just the movies.

And when she meets up with Luke, he could be a little meta about it. Saying something like, “It doesn’t matter if you’re a Palpatine, or if you’re no one, everyone has a dark side, and it is something we must all face.” (This isn’t verbatim what I have written in my notes, just the gist of what I’m thinking)

I think one benefit to this is that you don’t have to heavily chop up Rey’s confrontation with Palpatine. It can be painted as him just trying to offer Rey belonging or whatever. And in the end, when he says she is nothing, it can kind of confirm that he was lying about it the whole time. OR, you can interpret it the same way the theatrical movie does. With this idea I think you should cut out any connection between Ochi, his ship, and Rey’s parents. Just leave Rey’s parents buried. No flashbacks.

Anyway, could be a way to have your cake and eat it, too.

Regardless if this is a viable approach, I’ll have to go back and look at my notes when I have more free time in August. I definitely have something written out for a strictly Rey Nobody version. It might not be bad if anyone has worked on a Rey Nobody edit could share assets to allow others to work on the major scenes, like Kylo’s chambers and the hangar scenes.

That was a great post too! I had totally forgotten how I would regularly listen to Collider (especially their Jedi Council podcast) during the lead up to TFA and into TLJ. I did recall Campea’s departure and some falling out stuff, but I hadn’t really kept up with many of these movie review content creators and didn’t realize how many of these media groups have kind of broken down.

I think it highlights the anxiety of being a content creator, where your income relies upon something that is arguably out of your control. And the only way many of them can keep making money is by constantly churning out news, and even worse, ragebait.

I think people forget that anger can be a drug. We can get addicted by how it makes us feel. Regular news already does this, but you definitely see it within more nerdy communities too. Or even the dopamine hits we get from more tame content.

These ragebait content creators don’t care about you. They want to keep you mad so you keep watching content so they keep making money. I’m not saying their opinions aren’t valid, at one point they maybe did care, but the line becomes harder to see when they’re financially motivated to keep talking about it. And I think it can lead us to become hyper fixated on things that really aren’t that important.

Like you said, so what if Batman II is delayed? Maybe there is a valid discussion to have about the dysfunction in Hollywood or whatever, but suddenly that conversation can get blown out of proportion becomes it benefits someone to do so.

I think it is a microcosm of a lot of feelings I have been having lately about internet addiction in general, and the desire to want to spend less time consuming content. And I think it helps when you’re able to look behind the curtain and realize a lot of content creators are trying to take as much time out of our brief lives for a little money.

Anyway, back to real life.

Thanks for sharing! Definitely keep sharing future blog posts you make with us.

Enjoying reading everyone’s thoughts. I know others have already shared similar feelings but love your thorough write-up Acbagel. Definitely think those are all valid thoughts. I feel like when I watch the new movies or shows, I try to have fun with it as someone who just enjoys seeing new Star Wars stuff (especially when I watch something with my dad who also is a life-long casual fan), but also can’t help but be critical a lot of the time too. I want to enjoy it, but also think it’s fair to want the franchise to be as good as it is capable of being.

Wanted to add some thoughts on one of your points. It seems a lot of people agree that Sol is a standout performance in the series so far. I definitely think his ability to express emotion is a highlight, and from what I’ve read in interviews it seems like being able to express his emotions physically was important to him. I think it speaks to the long-time dilemma of how to portray Jedi as stoic monks in control of their emotions, but also get a good performance out of Jedi characters. While I don’t think this is impossible to do it is interesting that this dilemma has come back around in the form of this character.

Actually found some snippets from an interview where Lee Jung-Jae, who plays Sol, speaks on this dilemma.

Kim: What was the hardest part about playing Sol?

Lee: I’d have to say it was successfully pulling off the role of a Jedi. If you take, say, a film like Il Mare, there’s no history behind it since it’s a standalone work. So I can act freely according to my own imagination. But with Star Wars, it’s a franchise with a 50-year history, and we’ve seen many other Jedis during that time, with a number of different actors playing them. So I had to think a lot about how this role and this series ties into the broader Star Wars saga, and also about how to portray a Jedi in a way that’s consistent with the Jedis from previous works, that’s consistent with the image of the Jedi Order. But at the same time, there were also parts about Sol that I had to make up on my own. So there were a lot of things I had to keep in mind while playing Sol in order to successfully convey both aspects—both the traditional image of a Jedi and Sol’s individual personality—simultaneously.

Kim: Sol definitely seems like a character that would be difficult to portray. Is there anything you did in particular to make it easier to play Sol?

Lee: I wouldn’t say I did anything in particular—rather, Director Leslye and I talked a lot on set about how to make Sol’s character more multifaceted and three-dimensional. I also watched how Jedis were portrayed by different actors in previous Star Wars films and shows. As I mentioned before, it was most important for me to figure out how to simultaneously convey the image of a classic Jedi and the image of Sol as a Jedi.

Also, The Acolyte takes place before the other Star Wars shows and films, so that means that Sol is from an older generation of Jedis. So I imagined that Sol became a Jedi at a time when Jedi training was a bit less developed and formalized, and I thought that could translate into Sol having a harder time controlling his human emotions. I thought it could seem more interesting if I were to express his emotions a bit more candidly. So when the situation called for Sol to be friendly, I’d show him as being more openly friendly and warm-hearted. And when Sol was feeling fear, I would try to express his fear more. But as a result, audiences have been saying that this Jedi seems to be rather different. (laughs)

It is sort of a chicken/egg question for me. Did Headland want to portray this Jedi as more emotional from the get-go, or was that decision from Lee’s desire to play a character that could express his emotions, and they found a story way to rationalize it. If I had to guess, the fate of his character will tie into the theme of the Jedi becoming more stoic by the time of the Prequel Era. It’s possible this was inline with Headland’s plans and it conveniently worked out with how Lee wanted to play him, though it also sounds like Headland hand-picked Lee because of his ability to express his feelings.

When The Acolyte creator Leslye Headland saw Lee in Squid Game, she knew she’d found the right person to play Sol. “He just ran the gamut of every single emotion,” she said in a promo video for the show. "And then when I worked with him I was like, ‘this is the best actor I’ve ever worked with,’ " she told IGN.

Anyway, not trying to paint a black or white opinion on the matter, just thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss!

Totally agree with you on your positives, Davey. Really enjoyed the exploration of a different Force culture in live action. The music for them was great too.

I’m sure people will complain that it’s trying to make the Jedi look bad, but I think they do a decent job trying to balance it out.

First of all, we don’t know if this witch cult is totally benevolent. We don’t know if the Jedi were the ones who persecuted them, or the Sith, or just people in general who feared their witchcraft, but did they do something in the past that made others fear them?

Yes, the Jedi did barge into their coven and their ceremony, but from the Jedi’s point of view, they might believe the children are being indoctrinated into a dangerous cult. Plus, it didn’t seem like they were going to take them, but they wanted the children to make that choice for themselves. That could change once more is revealed, but we’ll see.

I also thought Mother had an interesting struggle between wanting to be a good mother to the twins, but also serving the interests of their coven. For example, it is sort of hypocritical for her to say that her wanting to be a Jedi might be just a phase, but at the same time forcing her to pledge herself to the coven. Also, when Osha tells Mother that she wants to be a Jedi, she doesn’t give her permission, she says that her decision would be considered by the coven.

I am kind of curious about why Mother couldn’t just refuse the Jedi’s request for the girls to be tested. She said they weren’t a part of the Republic, so they aren’t legally required to have the girls tested. My assumption is that if she refused, the Jedi wouldn’t have left them alone and would’ve caused more problems down the line. But if she granted their request and they lied on their tests, the Jedi would lose interest and leave them alone. Also like how the Jedi tests were consistent with Episode 1.

I’m sure this is going to upset people, but I don’t mind the implication that the twins were also born of no father, like Anakin.
Palpatine said that Plagueis could influence the midichlorians to create life, so unless Palpatine was lying, we know this was an ability someone could theoretically possess. Mother even says something along the lines of “create life”, which makes me feel that this was an intentional allusion. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re setting up the idea that Plagueis learned this power from this coven, somehow. It would be similar how Palpatine seemed to learn certain things for the Nightsisters. I like the idea of the Sith taking an ability that was initially something meant to be positive and twisting it for their own designs. This could bs a reason as to why the Sith have an interest in Mae. What this means for Anakin and the concept of the Chosen One is a good question, but I don’t think it is bad to play around with the idea. It’s interesting, and expands upon the mystery of the Force.

But I do get why people maybe feel a little disinterested in this episode since it sort of presents the facts as they have been alluded to already. It almost makes me wonder how differently it would feel if the series started with this episode instead? Or, if they had been more vague about what happened in first two episodes, and allowed this flashback to answer those questions. Just cut down on some of the exposition.

rocknroll41 said:

Footage of a major spoiler just got leaked, apparently from episode 4 or 5, so be on your toes throughout the next week or so, if you’re trying to avoid spoilers on the internet.

Thanks for the warning! (Immediately goes to r/starwarsleaks)

I also think the flipped shots aren’t a big deal, at least on my phone I don’t think I would even notice it. I mean the scene moves so quick anyway. I think it is worth implementing the consistent screen direction to see how it helps the flow of the scene.

Some speculation about what the “Sith” said at the end of Episode 1:

The Jedi live in a dream. A dream they believe everyone shares. If you attack a Jedi with a weapon, you will fail. Steel or laser are no threat to them. But an acolyte, an acolyte kills without a weapon. An acolyte kills the dream.

Delivery was kinda awkward, but this little speech says a lot. Clearly this speaks to modus operandi of the Sith in this era. They failed to defeat the Jedi conventionally centuries ago, so instead they must find a subtler way to defeat them. While I think this little speech speaks to current situation with the show, I can also see this being a thing Sith tell their acolytes in general. During their time in the shadows, perhaps the Sith send their acolytes to do their bidding, accomplishing missions to slowly chip away at that dream.

It’s possible this whole assassination plot is going against the wishes of the Master Sith, who I’m assuming we actually haven’t seen yet. But, I wonder if the Sith are manipulating Mae to kill these Jedi in order to begin chipping away at the facade of the Jedi Order. I think the ‘dream’ speaks to the way the galaxy views the Jedi, and how the Jedi view themselves. I think it will be revealed that the Jedi hold some responsibility for what happened on the twins’ home planet, and if the public finds out about it it would be a scandal. I think the Sith may be trying to slowly sour public sentiment of the Jedi. And on the other side of things, perhaps they know this scandal will lead the Jedi to become more dogmatic like we see them in prequels, and even more tied with Coruscant and the Senate.

I also get a sense that this philosophy has involved into an actual tradition that Sith have for their acolytes. We’ve seen Mae/evil twin reach for her target’s lightsaber during their fights, and her targets have commented on her fighting them without a weapon. It seems like Mae having to resort to her blades or poison is something she’s reluctant to do. She told Qimir she is going to kill a Jedi without a weapon to please the Master, but I wonder if in order for an acolyte to earn their lightsaber (and/or officially become a Sith apprentice), they have to kill a Jedi with their own weapon. And that weapon becomes their red lightsaber.

If this is too spoilery let me know and I can hide this comment. Just thought it would be fun to speculate!

During Rey’s second lesson, there is a shot of Rey sitting down listening to Luke offscreen, and Luke says, “For many years, there was balance, and then I saw…” before cutting back to Luke saying “Ben.” You could possibly have Luke say something here like, “For many years, there was balance, and then I saw a dark vision of…” (you could perhaps shorten that line in some way if that was an issue). So within this scene, you learn that a dark vision of Ben’s future was the impetus for his training. It actually works well with the rest of the dialogue in that scene if you paint the picture of Luke knowing Ben’s dark potential from the get-go, but thought he could save Ben like he saved his father. That’s arguably close to canon, but we’re just fine tuning the details to recontextualize certain character choices.

I have other thoughts on the other flashbacks to the temple massacre and that event in general that I can share later. I do think you could potentially reuse shots from the various flashbacks to extend them and add more dialogue if needed, but I think a part of it is just adjusting word choices to get that idea across better in the same amount of time. Just depends on how detailed you want to be versus how minimally you want to change the existing dialogue.

I can’t for the life of me find the YouTube video, but I wrote down some quotes from one Last Jedi review that I felt was pretty well thought out and not just a “rage bait” review, and one thing he brought up was this moment with Luke. This is a part of that review that I wrote down:

Something I see brought up a lot in response to this is that allegedly this is the kind of Luke that George Lucas had in mind for his episode 8. I don’t immediately see that as a problem and let me try to paint a picture for you. Let’s say that Luke had seen the darkness rising in Kylo, and even the future potential destruction that he might bring, and then said, “I’m Luke Skywalker, a legend. If I can save Vader, I can save this kid too.” And he does his best to save his nephew, and fails. Now THAT is the kind of failure might give someone as optimistic as Luke an existential crisis, making him retreat to his island of solitude in self-doubt.

If an editor were to take that approach, I think they could use AI dialogue to have Luke explain to Rey earlier in the film that either him and/or Leia saw a dark vision of Ben’s future when he was just a boy, and this was the impetus to begin his training (maybe this occur when Luke first tells Rey about what happened). But Luke, knowing the future is always in motion and having helped turn his father back to the good side, believes he can also help his nephew avoid this future. After years of training and guidance, perhaps Luke says that he thought he had changed his fate, but after sensing the darkness rise again he looked inside Ben’s mind to discern the truth, he realizes that nothing he has done for all of these years has changed anything. He may even believe that he made things worse by training him in the ways of the Force in the first place, so he might even feel responsible for creating Kylo Ren.

This change, while still similar to what we got, would illustrate that Luke made a lot of effort to try and help Ben, years of effort, and realizes that he still couldn’t save him. He breaks, has a moment of weakness, and thinks killing Ben might be the last resort to stop this dark force that he’s helped create. And even then realizes that he can’t kill his own nephew.

So I think it is important to clarify that in this version of events, Luke actually sees the vision years before that fateful night, and years later when he looks into Ben’s mind, he is either seeing Ben’s plans and/or another vision of the future that is even worse than the first. At this point Luke thinks he has failed, that Ben has already decided to become the monster in his vision and was preparing to betray him.

So to bullet point the timeline of events:

• When Ben was just a boy, Luke (and/or Leia) has a dark vision of his future, that he would become another Vader.
• Luke, believing the future’s always in motion, takes Ben to train him in the ways of the Jedi.
• Over the years, Luke makes a lot of effort to teach Ben right vs wrong, the Jedi code, etc.
• Luke is slowly lulled into a false sense of security, thinking he has changed Ben’s future, but Snoke has been secretly indoctrinating him.
• At some point, Luke starts sensing that darkness return. Suspicious, he looks into Ben’s sleeping mind to discern the truth, and realizes that Ben has already turned to the dark side and is planning to betray him and the Jedi.
• Realizing that he failed to change Ben’s dark future and is potentially responsible for enabling it, he momentarily contemplates killing Ben as a last resort to stop all of the suffering that’s to come, but stops himself when he remembers that this is still his nephew.

Really this would line up with what is already in the film generally, except that this makes it clear that Luke has made a lot of effort over years to try and save Ben from his vision, and is shocked to realize that nothing he did could change it. And this could require minimal change to the dialogue, depending on how you wanted to approach it.

(I have also considered the idea of Luke saying that he realized Ben was going to betray him that very night, to make the threat imminent and Luke’s actions feel a little more justifiable because he’s out of time to try and save him. Perhaps that would take away from Ben’s “innocence”, but he may have still been on the fence regarding the plan, or it became a self-fulfilling prophecy when Luke ignited his lightsaber.)

Acbagel said:

5.5/10 trailer for me. Feeling pretty neutral about the show in general, but remain a little bit intrigued. It didn’t match the tone of the poster though…? I don’t know, I’ve watched the trailer 5 full times and something felt a little off or shallow with the trailer itself, but it certainly wasn’t bad. For some reason, the lighting/presentation of the sets still doesn’t fit with the “feel” of a George Lucas set/lighting/background/costumes. I know they can’t really perfectly replicate it with the differing technology nowadays, but there has to be a way to resemble the grand scale of a Lucas set piece. Do the shots still feel… flat or like they’re missing something? Even with this, I am interested to learn more about the show and will follow with cautious optimism.

This is a great question. This is the kind of thought that makes me want to make a Star Wars fan film, even if it was more of a proof of concept film, that was just about trying to replicate that Lucas/Original Trilogy look. There may be fan films out there that do this but I feel like I’ve never seen it. Instead of things looking clean and modern, go for the aesthetic of an older era.

I think it would make sense to have Dooku still be a member of the Order during TPM.

There is also another issue you run into by trying to introduce Dooku in TPM. Sure, you could tease him, but I feel like it would be strange to show him (like appearing ominously at Qui-Gon’s funeral), but to not give the audience information as to who he is. It could work well at misleading the audience into assuming that he’s the Sith Lord, only to reveal in the second film more details of who he is and why he was there. This would especially work well if Dooku is briefly seen overlooking Qui-Gon’s funeral after Mace Windu’s line, “Then who was destroyed? The master? Or the apprentice?” Snooker made a nice test of this idea forever ago and I know others have made similar things. Plus, it would be simpler to de-age him just for one shot.

This would go against canon, but I feel like this idea would pair well with Dooku not actually being a Sith Lord, but simply a fallen Jedi. Then in AOTC we are kind of on the same page as the Jedi as far as not knowing who or what to believe. We don’t have the additional context of Palpatine’s machinations.

It would also add to why the Jedi are skeptical of Palpatine in ROTS. Anakin killed Dooku, who they thought might be the “Sith Lord”, but things still don’t feel right. The Force still feels out of balance.

But simply removing the scene of Palpatine and Dooku at the end of AOTC would help this idea even if Dooku is actually a Sith and working with Palpatine.

This would also go against canon, but I could also imagine a version of TPM where Dooku was on the Jedi Council as a voice of opposition against the majority opinion that spoke out in favor of his former apprentice. But I feel like it would be difficult to make such a scene work with the material available. No real way to make it clear who Dooku is, so in a way the mystery angle that I mentioned above might be best.

Omg that is hilarious. 😂 I was like, “Any prequel edit idea imaginable has been suggested in this thread so I know it’s been mentioned before” it’s come full circle.

Yeah, having face be totally obscured and voice distorted could definitely help. Though if one were to try and set up Dooku as a sort-of red herring, I feel like the voice would need to be obscure enough that it could be confused for either Palpatine or Dooku. Potentially layering their voice using AI? (Ironically kind of like how Gandalf and Saruman’s voices are layered when Aragorn and crew encounter the White Wizard for the first time).

Just to clarify, I’m not saying “Oh I believe this MUST be done!” Just spitballing ideas for fun.

I think this has been suggested in other ideas people have shared here over the years, but by showing Dooku in TPM you could also play around with the implication that he is the “master” Mace and Yoda speculate about. It would be interesting if Sidious=Palpatine could be more of a twist, where we actually never see Sidious until Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin.

A Pro would be that Anakin could blame Dooku for indirectly causing Qui-Gon’s death if he thought Dooku was the master of his killer. And, the prequels could play out in an interesting way if “Who is the Sith Lord” was more of a mystery.

On the other hand, you would have to cut a not-insignificant amount of runtime to cut all of Sidious’ scenes. He has quite a few with Nute Gunray in TPM, but only one in AOTC (but his one scene is important because it reveals Dooku’s Sith name, which helps add clarity to the cloning mystery) and one in ROTS with Grievous.

I don’t think any of your thoughts really contradict my point either. Maybe the Sith in particular were the cause of this major unbalance that needed to corrected. I don’t think that fact really goes against the idea of there being a cycle of war and peace that just inherently exists in the universe, both ours and Star Wars. And, like I said, you can’t deny that cycle has existed up until the Skywalker Saga, and maybe ultimate balance is achieved by the end of TROS, but it still would make sense for the characters within the story to address that cycle. Especially if they thought balance HAD been restored and the cycle broken. So history repeating itself would make them question everything: if this war will ever end, if balance can truly be restored. Even the idea of there being a second chosen one raises the question of how often has the Force produce such beings? Regardless, maybe all of that ends up does end up happening by the end of the Saga. Both of those facts can be true. That the Sith cancer was destroyed, the Force has been healed, ultimate balance has been restored, but that doesn’t mean there will never be enemies to fight again. I think addressing it kind of future-proofs the franchise by pointing that out. I definitely agree with you that it would be nice for the Rey movie to be small scale and I hope for that too, but I honestly doubt there will never be a large-scale threat that takes place post Skywalker Saga.

Also the whole idea behind addressing this idea of the Star Wars cycle was to twist the way the ST just riffs off the Original Trilogy by making it a strength rather than a weakness. Or at least by making it sort of the point. I mean, all of the elements are already there. This just connects the dots.

It felt wrong to a lot of people that the happy ending of the original trilogy was replaced with the happy ending for the sequel trilogy. I just think a lot of that can be mitigated when the story addresses the fact the Clones Wars, the Galactic Civil War, and the First Order-Resistance War are all a series of wars that are inherently a part of life in the Star Wars universe. There are all just civil wars. Even the Jedi/Sith conflict is arguably a civil war if one religion split from the other.

I think if that was kind of the theme an edit were highlighting, it can help justify repetitive decisions like Starkiller Base, another Jedi Purge, Palpatine returning, etc. Because it emphasizes this idea of the cycle. History repeating. The wheel spinning. Generations forgetting and then making the same mistakes. It makes those story decisions feel more necessary because it adds to the point that the story is trying to make. If the events of the ST were what achieved the ultimate happy ending, then it still feels like it just stole that happy ending from the original trilogy. The ORIGINAL happily ever after.

Do you get what I’m saying? Return of the Jedi was THE happy ending. The only way retconning that really feels earned is if the Sequel Trilogy was trying to say that there really is no absolute happy ending. There are a series of bad beginnings and happy endings. If TROS is just replaced ROTJ as THE happy ending, then you’re kind of like, “What was the point of going through all of this again?”. The cycle theme kind of addresses that there will always be wars (external and internal) to fight, but even fleeting peace is worth fighting for. It just gives the ST another strong, coherent theme that connects each film that, upon release, we’re criticized for being a little disjointed.

But I definitely agree with your hopes that now the Sith (or at least the Banite Sith) are gone for good, and we will have a new and improved Jedi Order for future stories to explore new ideas. Regardless, I think this theme would probably always be relevant because of how universal it is. And like I said, the theme is arguably there already in the movies. You could emphasize them with new AI dialogue but you probably could still manage it without it.

But I def agree that they should start getting into Old Republic stuff! Crazy that they still haven’t.

I really like this Jolee Bindo quote from Knights of the Old Republic.

“Malak is a tyrant who should be stopped. If he conquers the galaxy, we’re in for a couple of rough centuries. Eventually it’ll come around again, but I’d rather not wait that long. So we do what we have to do and we try to stop the Sith. But don’t start thinking this war, your war, is more important than any other war just because you’re in it.“

I do think the Skywalker Saga is the definitive conclusion of the war with Palpatine, but I think it is naive to think that future stories won’t deal with conflicts between good and evil, good guys and bad guys, the dark side and the light. Hopefully they take a different form than the Sith, but I’m sure the new Rey movie will deal with the New Jedi Order addressing some new type of conflict or enemy, and that’s what I’m talking about.

A franchise called “Star Wars” is likely never going to have a happily ever after that is permanent. There’s always going to be some conflict or war that has to be fought. I mean, you say, “ there should really be another sequel trilogy if that is the case, and on and on into infinity.” That’s sort of what is happening though. We’re getting at least one movie that is forward in time that is 100% going to deal with some type of conflict or dilemma. And, the franchise is already going back in time to show countless other wars and conflicts that happened before the Skywalker Saga. 25,000 years cycling through war and peace. And even if Episode IX is the end of that and there is never a dark side wielding enemy ever again, there clearly has been a cycle of war between the Jedi and the Sith for literally a thousand generations. You can’t argue that. But maybe it is over now, but the point that I would suggest trying to make in this hypothetical type of edit is that regardless of whether or not the cycle is broken with Palpatine’s death, that peace and balance is worth fighting for even if it isn’t permanent. But maybe it is!

At one point in time I was really hoping that there would be some kind of resolution to the flaws of the Jedi Order, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the new Rey movie addresses that in some way, but I think from both an in-universe and narrative standpoint it’s unlikely the Jedi will make some fundamental philosophical change that avoids Jedi from falling to the dark side. Even in Legends, where Luke more clearly shook up the old Jedi ways and made it something grayer, plenty of Jedi still fell to the dark side. And good guys being corrupted or bad guys being redeemed is such a huge theme in Star Wars that making some big storytelling decision that the Jedi are “fixed” now and no Jedi will ever fall again just is unlikely. Where’s the fun in that? The Jedi can be better but that internal conflict will always exist and need to be confronted by future Jedi.

It also speaks to reality as well. Sure, we don’t have Jedi/Sith, the Force, galactic wars, but humans are imperfect, and so is civilization. We’re always fighting for peace in our communities and also within ourselves, and it is a constant struggle. Just because those things aren’t permanent doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight for those things. That’s just what I’m speaking to. Star Wars might not have a happily forever after, but there’s plenty of happily afters for every new adventure they decide to tell.

Yeah, you could just say something like, “When she started her training, she felt darkness grow within her. Leia feared what she could do with that power. To give into hate. So she left the Jedi path. Throughout her life, Leia lost everything, and everyone, but in the end, she still chose love.”

Something like that. I don’t think room for dialogue is a big issue, there’s a lot of dead air that could be filled in that scene. And I also think the whole “surrendering her saber to me” stuff isn’t really necessary so could be replaced. I think what you’ve written is already way better than the theatrical. I feel like the original feels very lore-focused than character-focused if that makes sense. Like it’s gotta answer questions, justify stuff. I like the idea of this tying to Luke reassuring Rey that Leia felt the same things she is feeling, and yours hits on that well too!

This is a random thought that I may do nothing with, and it has been discussed before but I could see some potential of expanding on the idea that Rey can use Force psychometry, like Cal Kestis in Fallen Order/Survivor. There’s several instances where she has visions when she touches objects. You could lean into that and use it to explain why she seems to quickly gain powers. Maybe you could take these moments and add some kind of vision effect on top of them to make it clearer that they are things Rey is seeing in her mind.

In TFA, the Skywalker Saber
In TLJ, the the stone surface of the island during Luke’s first lesson, the glass wall in the Dark Side cave and Ben’s hand in the Ahch-To Hut
In TROS, the Dagger, the Wayfinder, and Leia’s Saber

The only time she has a vision that really isn’t trigger by touching an object is the vision she has at the beginning of TROS, but you could imply it’s triggered by Kylo Ren touching Vader’s helmet or the Mustafar Wayfinder, if you have that happen simultaneously.

Darth Raditz said:

Not necessarily connected to any of my previous ideas, but there’s a bit of dialogue from the DotF script Leia had that I’d love to see inserted back in. After Rey decided to go off alone, Luke & Leia have a discussion concerning her & the Jedi Order. Luke says the reason the Jedi Order lived in isolation is because the pain of loss leads to the dark side. Leia has a response that perfectly encapsulates her character:

“I’ve lost everything, and everyone. But I’d still choose to love.”

Not to spend a ton of time going into detail, but I was actually thinking about this line the day before you made this post!

I actually think an edit could potentially paraphrase this line, but have someone else say it in reference to Leia, rather than Leia herself.

For example, you could totally change Luke’s dialogue during the Leia’s training flashback. If the previous convo between Rey and Luke was about Rey being afraid of the darkness in herself, and the need for Rey to confront that fear, then this scene could continue that topic. Instead of Luke talking about Leia having a bad vision to explain why she stopped her training, maybe he could say something like: As the Force grew stronger in her, she felt darkness within herself too. Leia feared what she could do with that power. To give into hate. Throughout her life, Leia lost everything, and everyone, but in the end, she still chose love. That’s what she wanted to teach you. A thousand generations live in you now. But this is your fight. Your trial to face.

You could be more specific, that she stopped her Jedi training because she was afraid of the darkness she felt within herself. And after she started training Rey, she realized she shouldn’t have stopped, and wanted Rey to learn from her mistake.

Yeah, you definitely could make an AI voice line for Fennec. Or, maybe you could find/re-use lines from Boba to make an appropriate line for that scene.

Here was the outline of ideas I had regarding it.

During the Maz Hologram:

Maybe Maz could say “there’s only one guy I KNOW” rather than one guy she “trusts”.

When 3PO says, “oh my” before his close-up, perhaps you could add a line from Maz saying that he is wanted in twenty systems. Something about him being a wanted man could explain why he chooses to sleep in a prison for safety or something, and why he keeps a low profile.

New C-3PO line: How do we find this Master Codebreaker?

Cut the line/shot of Maz saying, “Oh yes, he can.”

Keep the shot of Rose and Finn giving each other that look, but have put a Maz new line over it.
New Maz line: He’ll find you…

Briefly keep following shot of Maz just saying, “In the casino-“ and continue scene as-is. So nothing about the red plom bloom.

Maybe cut the scene of cops looking at Finn and Rose’s ship, unless you can think of a new line that would fit the alien here. Maybe something like, “Our client is looking for two humans who landed their shuttle here. They likely went up to the casino.”

Cut the shot/line where Rose mentions looking for the red plom bloom.

Replace Finn saying, “Zero red plom blooms” with something that matches his mouth movements. Something like, “We’ve covered this whole casino, no luck/zero luck/nothing, etc.”

When BB-8 rolls up to them on the balcony, have Finn or Rose off screen say, “Security?”

Then when they are running back into the casino, cut around all of the red plom bloom/Master Codebreaker stuff. Maybe have Finn say, “We gotta get out of here” as they are running. Then, they get caught. The alien can say, “There they are! Put them with our friend in cell 4EB!” (You don’t have to do these lines exactly, just depends on how obvious you want to make it)

Then, when they’re in the cell, replace DJ’s line, “Uh, I can do it” with something like, “Looking for me?”

Replace Finn saying, “Did he just-?” with “Is he the-?”

There’s opportunity to change other lines but I think these would be the big needed changes at least. And then, later when Poe asks if they found the Master Codebreaker, Finn needs to say yes.

Yay! Happy to see you here.
I’d totally help with Jar Jar on cleaning up/making some lines for your project.
Also, revisiting the DJ stuff, do you think it is possible that you could solve the DJ=Master Codebreaker problem through AI voice lines?

Awhile back I was actually making edit notes for TLJ an expanded on the idea of making DJ the Codebreaker, inspired by you, and I think I came up with another approach. I may have to go back and look for it and see if it could possibly work for you if you’re interested.

I wasn’t disagreeing with what you’re trying talk about in this scene, just trying to talk about the phrasing. But honestly it’s not a big deal.