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RogueLeader

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11-Jun-2015
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17-Jul-2018
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Post
#1226338
Topic
Is Star Wars "Better Than It's Ever Been"?
Time

Interesting! I liked (and now love) LOTR too, I mean that trilogy is damn near perfect, but there wasn’t a lot of stuff outside the movies that kept my interest as a kid.

I like that you brought up the Clone Wars micro-series! While it was way too short, I was a huge Samurai Jack fan, so I really loved what little we got of it. And it helped bridge Episodes 2 and 3, and helped me enjoy those characters even more.

Which I kind of think is something the ST is lacking. Not to get into it, but I don’t think TLJ and ST in general would be getting as much flack if we were getting more material regarding those characters and the events that took place in between 6 and 7. Obviously I see why they didn’t do that, but I think future content will cover that, so while a lot of current fans might have issues with the ST, future fans who grow up with those gaps filled won’t.

Once the ST is done, hopefully future content won’t be as held back. I’m hoping Jedi: Fallen Order will be interesting, but it is sad to think that is the only other Star Wars game publicly announced, since Project Ragtag was scrapped and now being turned into something else, with no set release time. I think Battlefront is fun and all but I really don’t know what EA is doing. I don’t think they do either. I think DICE and the other developers want to make great Star Wars games, but they’ve kind of been getting screwed over. I guess it is a quality of quantity approach, but I kind of miss the days of Lucasarts. I’m hoping they’ll ramp up game production in the future though.

Post
#1226332
Topic
Is Star Wars "Better Than It's Ever Been"?
Time

This is a great topic. I think a lot of people will have varying answers though.

There’s a lot of ways to answer that question. Is “better than ever” related to general popularity, quality of the films, financial value/success of the brand?

Star Wars becomes something personal for each fan, and I think every fan will be biased with their answer.

I grew up during the prequel era, so despite the critical reception of those films, I feel it was a great time for the franchise. A lot of great games, books, toys, eventually The Clone Wars, and as a kid I loved the prequel movies too.

I think each era of the franchise had something special to it: the OT era, the dark times (87-91) when all fans really had was the tabletop rpg, the birth of the EU in the 90s, the prequel era, the “post-saga” 2005-2012~ period, and now, the Disney era. While some eras had more content, I think there is also something special about the fans who had very little content, but had their imagination to explore that galaxy.

And I think even the post Disney-era will have different “periods”, too. Personally, I think there hasn’t been a lot of meaty content outside the films for fans since the Disney acquisition. Disney/EA has kind of dropped the ball on the game-front, and I kind of feel like besides a few gems, the books have been afraid to step on the toes of the filmmakers, so a lot of the non-film material feels inconsequential besides maybe Rebels. Lucasfilm has been finding its footing since the acquisition.

I think from a kid’s perspective, there hasn’t been a whole lot to latch onto compared to when I was a kid. If I were a kid now, I probably would’ve gravitated towards Marvel stuff inbetween the SW movie releases.

But I think if I was a kid now I would also be really excited for the future. Like you mentioned Dom, there is so much more on the horizon that the next generation of fans will have. Brand new movies, multiple tv series, hopefully interesting books and video games. The best era of Star Wars might not even be here yet.

Post
#1226324
Topic
TFA: A Gentle Restructure
Time

Definitely not a reign of terror, Hal!

I know this has been discussed as nauseum, but I do hope 9 is the end of it.
I’m okay with future movies about Rey, Kylo Ren, a new Jedi Order, etc., I just wish they wouldn’t use the titles of 10, 11 and 12. Let the Skywalker Saga be 1-9. A trilogy of trilogies.

Either way Hal, even if they kept going you could just say that your series only consists of 1-9, because I feel that even if 9 concludes in a way where there is room for future stories, I also feel they’ll want to end it in a way that also is a nice book end to the whole saga.

Post
#1226238
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

Oh okay, thanks for the insight! Well either way, I’m behind whatever he decides on. These are his edits so I want him to do whatever is more enjoyable for him. Designing a new shuttle sounds like it could be a fun project, so if he goes with that I’ll also be excited to see it.

Post
#1226229
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

I’d be interested in seeing Ady’s idea for a brand new design, but if he wasn’t able to make that work for some reason, I’d also go with the Sentinel. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, 005, but it’d also be appropriate since that design was introduced in the Special Edition, and Revisited’s tagline is “What the Special Editions Should Have Been”. Changing the Tydirium to a Sentinel-class would have made since as a change even back then.

Post
#1225906
Topic
Star Wars saga - Extra Extended Edition (1080p)
Time

This is really cool. The idea of extended editions is really interesting for any fan of the franchise. While not necessarily directed at this project, I am kind of curious, do you think the quality differences between the HD theatrical film and the lower quality deleted scenes might be kind of jarring to watch, or is it good because viewers can clearly see what was in the original film and what wasn’t? A part of me wonders if using lower quality theatrical versions of the films might make it more seamless, and also add to the feeling of watching alternate, non-final cuts of the films. Not saying either way would be better or worse, just wondering about the pros and cons of either option.

Post
#1225880
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Just wanted to chime in and say I’ve really enjoyed reading the discussion Dre, Dom, Nev, yotsuya, Collipso, Anchorhead and others have been having the past few days. I know you all have pretty strong opinions on the Sequel Trilogy, but it has been nice to read such a civil discussion debating both sides. I feel like the fandom is so crazy right now, and I know heated arguments here aren’t uncommon either, but it’s refreshing to see how mature you all are and actually just talking about the films rather than resorting to personal attacks like a lot of chats end up turning into.

It’s been a great read so far, and I definitely can understand both sides.

I’m not going to get into it myself too much, but from hearing everyone’s points recently and just absorbing discussions since TLJ released, I do have one thought I wanted to share.

I think the story the ST has been telling is appropriate and fits within the saga, but I also think that maybe the new films have been lacking some clarity, maybe? For example, I know people have been going back and forth on the political context of the new films, and I think the unclear power dynamics between the different factions adds to the disorientation a lot of fans feel with this new trilogy. While I agree with the more defending side, I think the various interpretations demonstrates something is being lost in translation.

It’s definitely something I think the opening crawls, for example, could have really handled better, which is why I enjoy reading Nev’s determined attempts at improving them.

While I don’t think the new films are bad, I do agree some strokes/details aren’t perfect, but I think that’s the great thing about fan editing and its ability to be proactive, testable criticism.

I know the debates will continue, just like how people are still arguing over the prequels, and it’s almost been 20 years since Episode 1 came out. But I do think the new movies will eventually grow on people who currently have issues with them, just like many have with the prequels, and those who love the new movies can find common ground and agree on some of the issues the new movies do have. I think this will especially be the case once there will be even newer Star Wars movies for all of us to argue over! Haha, it’s a vicious cycle I guess, but clearly because we all love Star Wars. Like two parents arguing over how to raise a child.

Anyway, just wanted to drop by and say I appreciate how civil you guys are being with each other and hope you’ll continue these kinds of conversations with the same level-headedness in the future. It’s a pleasure to read!

Post
#1222428
Topic
The Last Jedi : Fan Edit Ideas - ** <strong>SPOILERS INSIDE</strong> **
Time

I was watching some of The Last Jedi BTS and seeing how much practical costumes they made for the Canto Bight sequence really surprised me, especially considering how much of it they actually didn’t use in the final cut.

Not a drastic idea, but I think a worthy change would be to cut the slot machine gag with BB-8 and the cgi alien and replace it with various shots from the Canto Bight deleted scene, which is basically just B-roll of random casino guests. So when Finn and Rose start looking for the Codebreaker, instead of seeing the slot machine gag, we see all the weird aliens and shady aristocrats that they see. Cutting the gag would you give you about 20-25 seconds of space if you want to keep the music in sync, which you could use the music-only version of the movie as a source or reference.

Just feel like it would be more useful to expand that environment and help the audience get more immersed in it, much like how the Mos Eisley Cantina shows of various weird patrons, rather than using the time for an unnecessary gag.

Post
#1222072
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I played ‘Asteroid Field’ while watching the scene and it looks like it would work well with the right placement. But yeah, others may feel that it should only be used for Han/The Falcon, and using the same music for both asteroid scenes might be a little too on those nose.

If I had to nitpick, the Asteroid Field feels a little more triumphant compared to how close to death Obi-Wan gets to in that scene. Music actually starts playing when Jango launches the homing missiles, but I’m guessing they chose not to include music for most of the scene to give the sound design a spotlight. You also could try throwing Boba Fett’s motif from Empire in the first half of the scene. It would be character appropriate, foreboding, and it wouldn’t totally cover up the sound design of the seismic charges and the other sounds.

Just depends what tone you’re going for in that scene I guess.

Post
#1220579
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

I think making Jakku in/near Imperial space makes perfect sense. Canonically it is on the edge of the Unknown Regions, where the First Order apparently has been hiding. It’s also where the Empire made their last stand, so it would make sense for it to be near some kind of Imperial/Republic border.

How would you go about showing this vision? A prophetic vision, so someone Force-sensitive would have had this vision to motivate the Resistance to find Luke. I’m guessing Leia? That could work. But personally I think it just comes down to Luke Skywalker being Snoke’s greatest threat. He is clearly afraid of him, thinking it would be Luke that would “rise to meet the darkness”. I even think destroying the Republic/Resistance with Starkiller was an afterthought, and he mainly helped the First Order build it so he could find out wherever Luke was and blow up the entire system he was in. He was that afraid of him returning.

Though the whole vision theme could make sense since you are giving Rey more visions.

Yeah, it is fun to talk about them! We will work on the TFA crawl forever and then spend months on the TLJ crawl too, probably. Hopefully it won’t take as long though!

Also I’m sure you have already talked about this but were you planning to eventually do prequel edits? Just curious.

Post
#1220471
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

I know I’m not helping you much but I don’t think the newest crawl is much of an improvement. While you do accomplish some things, like making the existence of the superweapon apparent, I don’t think it adds much else that your previous crawls haven’t already.

And I think it is a little confusing. The last sentence in the second crawl seems to imply that destroying what’s left of the Jedi will help to keep the weapon secret. In the third paragraph, though, “To prevent this atrocity…” seems to imply the Republic/Resistance already knows about it. I’m sure this isn’t exactly what you meant but that’s how it comes off to me.

Also, I don’t think this crawl flows as well as some of the others. The repitition of “To protect this perilous secret” and “To prevent this atrocity” feels redundant, and the last paragraph feels like it is missing some kind of energy that should get me excited for what I’m about to see.

I think you bring up some interesting thoughts about the function of the crawl and how the theatrical TFA crawl might raise a bit of questions for new viewers, but I think you have to somewhat trust the audience to get the gist of it, just how previous crawls just gives you basics of the premise. I mean, I could come up with similar questions for both the ANH and TPM crawl.

I think it is cool that you’re trying different crawls and seeing what lands/feels right, I just think this most recent iteration is not the right direction.

I think you should really break down what is the most basic information you’re trying to get across to audience with the crawl without overloading the audience with information, which I think is the beauty of the other crawls.

If I had to summarize the goal of a good TFA crawl, I would suggest these items:

  1. Luke and the Jedi are gone.
  2. The First Order, their status in the galaxy and goal.
  3. The New Republic’s status.
  4. Its relationship with the Resistance and their goal.
  5. The present mission/first scene transition.

I think the theatrical accomplishes this to extent, though sort of drops the ball on the New Republic/Resistance relationship and maybe it could’ve given more context on the First Order. Have they been in hiding, or are they publicly active at this point? And something to explain the Republic’s inaction. You have had previous crawls that have touched on this and I know I’ve thrown out a suggestion or two.

Basically, it comes down to explaining who the players are and what are the stakes. I think defining the stakes is what makes it compelling for an audience. This is another thing I feel the theatrical crawl is missing. It’s missing some energy and maybe a little bit of poetry that the other crawls have.

If something you’re thinking about including in the crawl is addressed in the movie itself, don’t put it in.

And honestly, and I hate to say this because I know you’ve tried really hard to add this in, but I don’t even think it is really necessary to mention the weapon at all. I think it is better not to, because it could make people feel like it is a ANH rehash before the movie even starts.

If anything, I think you could just allude to an imminent attack, or something more vague. It gets difficult, because if you mention a weapon or attack, then the audience will question why the New Republic didn’t act. But if Starkiller Base is a surprise to us, in a way we also feel like the Base is a surprise to the protagonists, by extension the New Republic. And luckily the nature of Restructured gives the film some breathing room between discovering its existence and seeing it being used.

Talking about the Death Star in the 4 and 6 crawls make sense because they’re central to the story and we know about both of them from the get go. Starkiller, on the other hand, is more of a reveal and it isn’t the focus of the story, either.

Without being flowery, I think the crawl should cover these things.

Luke and Jedi have disappeared. Without their protection, the remnant of the Empire, reborn as the First Order, has come out of hiding to take back the galaxy.

For whatever reason the New Republic is not taking action (either pursuing a diplomatic solution or First Order spies/sympathizers have compromised the Senate), so Leia forms a covert Resistance to hold back their expansion and prepare for the worst.

And let the last paragraph cover the first scene. Leia thinks Luke is the key to stopping the First Order, so she has sent one of her pilots to retrieve a clue to his location.

^I think Luke/the Jedi being the key to victory is important, because it adds weight to why he must be found. In the theatrical crawl, it makes it seem more like a last resort. She knows that Snoke, Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren, are all challenges that only a Jedi can truly stand a chance against. Luke and the Jedi were the only thing holding them back, and now the galaxy needs them to restore peace.

You also could go with the angle that the First Order are only targeting what’s left of the Jedi, but maybe mention in second or third paragraph how Leia believes these attacks will eventually spread to the New Republic. The Jedi are their major threat, but once that is out of the way…

This statement could eventually contradict with the Resistance show, though I don’t know how much that matters. Luckily though I think either angle addressin the New Republic’s inaction is technically canon, so shouldn’t be much of an issue either way.

I also know you had an issue with the “In his absence” phrase, since it almost implies that Luke’s vanishing had something to do with the creation of the First Order. To me though, I think the First Order has existed for a long time before Luke’s vanishing, but like I said, without the threat the Jedi presented to the First Order, it gave them the confidence they needed to slowly emerge from the shadows.

So instead of “in his absence”, maybe something like “without his protection”, “without the Jedi [Knights]”, “without the protection of the Jedi” could also work. And honestly I don’t think you need to explain who the Jedi are. In the first scene, Lor San Tekka states, “Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force.” And I think pop-culture has helped people know what a Jedi is in a general sense.

This is another reason I think the phrase, “The sinister First Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire” should not be in an edited crawl. While technically true, it makes it seem like the First Order’s rise was fairly recent, even though it seems more likely that they have existed for an extended period of time, but just been in hiding.

I understand your logic of a new opening sentence since they mostly present a statement on the status of the galaxy or a particular faction (sans ROTJ which imo is a poorly written crawl in general).

Maybe to find a happy medium, what if you went with something like, “The Jedi have vanished.”
The disappearance of Luke and the Jedi seem to be the catalyst of the events of Sequel trilogy, so I think such an opening is appropriate, but making it about the Jedi in general instead of Luke makes it more fitting with the other crawls and also makes it not feel like Luke is particularly responsible for the First Order’s rise.

Though it makes it even more ironic that the title of the previous movie was called Return of the Jedi, and to start the next movie off with “The Jedi have vanished.” You can’t really get around that fact though. If you had to do something different, I do like your most recent opening sentence, but I would suggest making it, “The New Republic is in crisis.” I do think people easily forget that there has been three decades of peace in-between these movies though, even longer than the Empire existed.

A lot of thoughts, I know. And I know you have already made a lot of such changes in previous iterations of your crawl. You put a lot of thought into the crawl so I figured I would throw out my thoughts as well. Basically, I think the skeleton of the theatrical crawl is a good structure to follow, but addressing those major points and tying it all together with stakes can make for a powerful crawl.

Post
#1220306
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I don’t blame you though Snooker. George has said several different things over the decades and different ideas have spread online over the years that it is hard to figure out what is the truth about a lot of the origins of Star Wars.

The Secret History of Star Wars is definitely a fun book to check out if you’re ever interested in reading about that kind of stuff.

Post
#1219984
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

I think it would be really cool if a behind-the-scenes doc could be made for this fan edit. It’d be great for people to see Ady’s process and the amount of work the team put into everything. And especially since this will be the last in the Revisited series.

Post
#1219004
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

Do it Eddie!

Looks like you’ve gotten a few more responses on your Facebook page!

Have you considered contacting organizations like the 501st or the Rebel Legion? Obviously you have the costumes but people within those organizations might be interested.

Also, are you planning to contact either organization for the California shoot since that will require multiple full-body costumes? I know you guys probably don’t want to talk about it too much, just curious about the logistics/planning going into the shoots. Really interesting stuff!

Post
#1218440
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

I agree, I think that is basically why he says that, and not that it ever necessarily “was his”, per se. For sure. But if you were also to base that off of his reaction, I think he may have seen it before. Sure, you could argue he may have seen it in Clone Wars holograms or whatever, but if he had never seen it in person before, I feel like he would’ve been in more disbelief. Like, “Is… that?” It’s something that he may have dreamt of having for a long time, something sacred, and suddenly this stormtrooper has it? I would expect a different reaction.

But he doesn’t even look shocked or surprised by seeing it. As soon as Finn lifts it up and ignites it, there’s no question that he knows that blade, even from a distance in the darkness.

This is just based off of his reaction. Worse case it just adds another layer to it. Until canon contradicts it I don’t think any speculation hurts as headcanon or as a working theory for a fan edit. But if they ever answer this question in future material I wouldn’t be too surprised if they did something totally different that makes little sense.

Post
#1218406
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

Yeah, it’s definitely Kylo’s saber unmodded.

Though I like to think that Ben possibly used it before building his own saber. When Finn uses it against Kylo in the forest, Kylo clearly recognizes it, since he says “It belongs to me.”
I think he said it because he sees it as his birthright, but since he seems familiar with it, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had used it before. Just like Luke used it before building his own.

If that’s the case, then I could add some more context to why Luke just tossed the saber away in TLJ.

I think if you can make that change Nev, make it, and people can make their own assumptions about it.

Post
#1217925
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

Hope I didn’t bring too much up to add to the confusion!

Nev, that is a REALLY interesting idea. It’s possible it could still work both ways. Maybe Maz is thinking of Luke, Rey doesn’t say it though. But when Rey refuses that call and goes looking for Finn, it shows who Rey is more worried about at this moment, and it at least gives her a better reason for running off. I’d like to see what other people think about this though, opinions for and against it.

Also, cool idea reusing shots from the Rathtar sequence that a lot of people usually cut.

Post
#1217902
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

True, true. I do agree that your assessment on Finn’s dichotomy is pretty accurate. I think the hard part is figuring out what is too much of one side, and what is not enough of the other, you know?

I do think he is a good person from the beginning. A little self-serving, but good. Like you said, he doesn’t want to kill the villagers at the beginning. But for me it was a debate of whether or not he should be a little more on the selfish side at first to have him progress as a more selfless person, or have him fluctuate.

It’s like, he did something “good” that put him in danger. Will he want to do that again if he can avoid it? Even though helping the Resistance seems like the right thing to do, he still doesn’t want to do it at the beginning of TLJ. Maybe that’s where the dilemma stems from?

I think you’re right, though. You could have him kill the other Stormtroopers less, especially that brutal saber move on Takodana. Haha. Maybe in the hangar he could still blow up the empty TIEs though to create some chaos, if that could work. And those changes would help if he ends up trying to save Stormtroopers in IX, which I hope they will go in that direction with him.

So what do you think about moments like when he runs over to help Rey even before he meets her? A part of me feels like having him running over towards the fight yelling “Hey!” seems like the writers were trying hard to make him seem like a good guy.

My only guess is that as a Stormtrooper, he thought he would be a hero, a protector of the galaxy. When he snapped out of it, he realized he was the opposite, but he still wants to be that hero. But that might seem weird when he doesn’t seem compelled to join the fight for the galaxy with the Resistance.

I don’t know. It has to be a balance, but a proper balance. Appreciate your thoughts on all of this.

Post
#1217726
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

About Finn.

Basically, I think Finn should be made into a more selfish character in 7. Three major reasons for this.

  1. He would have more interesting character development.
  2. His motivations would be made clearer by simplifying them.
  3. Watching him grow from a lower point would be much more rewarding for the audience.

This also would require minimal changes.

If possible, don’t have Finn shake his head when he doesn’t help execute the villagers. Finn’s still good at heart, but it is a little on the nose and I think lowering his gun is a stronger action by itself.

When Finn first sees Rey getting mugged, he doesn’t run over to try and help Rey, he just gets up to see what is happening. He’s not a hero at this point.
But when Rey asks if he is a part of the Resistance, he immediately begins playing the role of the “hero” because it could be a ticket off Jakku. He grabs her hand because that’s what he thinks a hero would do, not because he truly cares about Rey or BB-8 at this point in the story. By not painting him as a nice guy before this moment, I believe it could help recontextualize his actions.

Trim Finn’s confession at Maz’s castle. Primarily the line, “I wasn’t going to kill for them.” This makes it sound like his morals were his main motivation, while in this version it was actually self-preservation. You could argue Finn was trying to not make himself sound as bad, but that just make things unclear for the audience, going against the premise of this change.

And those are the main things. These changes also help justify why Finn would kill other Stormtroopers, like when him and Poe are escaping. At this point all he cares about is his own survival, not doing the right thing. So if other Stormtroopers get in the way, so be it. They literally make a joke about Finn’s priorities just before with the “Because it’s the right thing to do/I need a pilot” line. I think Finn’s main goal already in the theatrical film is to run and survive, but these few changes help keep that clear, and toning down his niceness early on makes his overall progression more satisfying.

While it isn’t necessary, I think this is also why cutting Phasma out of the third act would help improve his arc. Phasma and Kylo Ren represent two different things for Finn. When Finn faces Kylo, it represents him facing death (Finn probably associates death with Kylo Ren, and he even looks like the grim reaper) to protect someone other than himself.

So when Finn faces Phasma in 8, she should represent whatever he overcomes in that film. The dilemma of choosing a side, basically. And I think Phasma is a good symbol for that.

That’s why I think Phasma shouldn’t even be in the third act of TFA. Finn “beating” Phasma at that point sort of takes the wind out of the purpose of their confrontation in 8.

At the VERY LEAST, one could do sort of what I think darthrush is going to do in his TFA cut and really deemphasize Finn’s celebratory attitude while they have Phasma at gunpoint, so cutting their conversation together “I’m in charge now!”, and maybe “Yeah, there is”, Finn grinning, after the trash compactor line.

I think similar changes can be made to 8 as well, like adding back most of his deleted scenes to clarify his motivations, like Hal is planning to do. Make Finn seem less eager to help the Resistance after he gets caught (maybe things like cutting, “If I can get on that ship…” and maybe don’t have Finn interrupt Rose when they’re telling Poe the plan).

Honestly these are mostly small trims, but I think they would go a long way to help clear up Finn’s motivations in both 7 and 8.