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RogueLeader

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Post
#1453772
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Over on the General Discussion threads, Stardust1138 has been talking about GL’s ideas regarding his version of the ST and the Whills, and it got me thinking about them. GL is kind of vague about what the Whills are exactly, and it seems his idea regarding them changed over the decades.

I was thinking of ways how this idea could be mentioned or hinted at within the context of a fan edit. An obvious addition would be that one could find a place where someone could mention “the Whills”. Though creating such a mention would require the invention of such dialogue (obviously you could use the word ‘will’ as a basis for some kind of frankenbite) that actually sounds natural and would make sense in the context of a conversation.

Even if you couldn’t explain them, perhaps one could add in more moments of Rey hearing the mysterious whispers that she hears when she is near the island tree. At the very least, when the whispers are heard, you could add in subtitles that refer to them as whispering of the Whills.

Originally I had this idea where you could add in more moments of these whispers that Rey hears throughout the trilogy, and then in the climax of TROS, when she calls on the past Jedi to be with her, we would hear those whispers slowly become the coherent voices of the Jedi that we hear in the climax. So this would reveal that the whispers that have been guiding her on her journey were past Jedi/Force ghosts all along.

These two separate ideas made me consider the thought of combining the concepts. What if the Whills were simply a more official name for Force ghosts? George has at one point or another described the Whills as immortal, observant beings, but also that they were comparable to the concept of the actual “will of the Force”. Sure, this idea doesn’t necessarily fit into the “microbiotic world” George described in his interview with James Cameron, but if the Whills are the Force’s will made manifest, and the midichlorians commune with the Force, then it would explain Jedi voices’ advice to Rey about the Jedi living in her.

This idea would basically make the Whills equivalent to the idea of Buddhahood, where one reaches enlightenment and then guides others along that path. Force ghosts and Buddha already share the similarity of being people who reached spiritual enlightenment, achieve some semblance of immortality, and retains their individuality after their physical death. The word ‘Whill’ also is reminiscent to ‘will-o-the-wisps’, which are basically “ghost lights”. The Force ghosts are “ghost lights” too if you think about it. Plus, if Force ghosts are essentially servants to the will of the Force, it is fitting that their official name would be a homonym to ‘will’. I also think it simplifies things if the Whills end up being a concept we already kind of know about.

While not relevant to an edit, I would imagine The Journal of the Whills within this concept would simply be a physical journal written by someone who can commune with the Whills, and they share their stories and wisdom from the past. Perhaps Rey could even be the one who writes the Journal, or at least adds the Skywalker Saga to it.

So as far as actual changes go, the simplest thing would be the changes to subtitles. So, the subtitles for the whispers in TLJ is just “indistinct murmuring”. I would suggest changing it to “whispering of the Whills”. You could argue that additional information shouldn’t be included in subtitles, but the Jedi voices include the names of each Jedi speaking, which I would argue is additional information, since most people likely wouldn’t have been able to identify many of those voices anyway.

Perhaps when Rey is talking to Leia about her training in TROS, she could say…
Rey: I’m starting to think it’s impossible, hearing the voices of…
[cuts to Leia]
Rey: the Whills
Leia: Nothing’s impossible.

Or maybe the term never has to be mentioned, and the new subtitle for the whispers can just be an homage to George’s original treatment. Maybe you could add in the voice of a new Exposition Jedi into the voices sequence who could literally say, “We are the Whills. The Will of the Force”. Haha, or at least something more elegant.

And as I mentioned earlier, I would make the Force whispers more of a character by adding them into more places throughout the trilogy, like when Rey is “called” to the lightsaber, when she mind tricks the stormtrooper, etc.

To maybe play around with the microbiotic world, or at least ethereal plane of existence George apparently wanted to play around with, I also think it would be fun to play around with the TROS climax a little more. When Rey looks up to the Sky and hears the voices, we sit on a shot of a star field for awhile before cutting to Rey’s face looking up at it. I don’t know if this would actually work or even look good, but I thought it would be a cool, small change to make an interesting transition between these two shots. We zoom out from Rey, the battle, and the planet and just see the darkness of space and the stars dotting it. We begin hearing the voices, and then we zoom out from the star field and see the star field is within the pupil of her eye, and it continues to zoom out until we get back to the normal close-up short of Rey. Kind of trippy, but it ties into the idea of each person being one with the Force and the universe, the Jedi living within her, and each person being a vessel for the Whills and he Will of the Force, as George described in his Cameron interview. Even if the zoom in/out wouldn’t look good, I think it would also be cool if you saw the star field within Rey’s pupils. It’s a little more subtle than the original idea. Also, I like the idea of the star field being a black void at first, and then the stars began appearing as we start hearing more and more voices.

I’d be interested in hearing some thoughts on this, as well as hearing other ideas of blending some of George’s original concepts into the Sequel Trilogy. Another thing I have been interested in is adjusting the political/war plot to fit a little more with what George said about his ideas.

Post
#1453768
Topic
The Force Awakens: The Starlight Project - (WIP) <strong>WORKPRINT V4 RELEASED</strong>
Time

If you are going with the idea that Ben’s first saber was Anakin’s, maybe in the TFA Force vision, you could add the saber somewhere on the ground. Perhaps it could be laying right in front of Rey’s face when she falls in the dirt near Luke and R2.
Also, some other general suggestions that might help with the flow of the shots, I wonder if you could do a match cut of R2 in the rain to a shot of dormant R2 in the Resistance base. Then, you could create a fake whip pan (just like what was used between the shots of Rey and Luke/R2), from dormant R2 to Leia handing Maz the saber. The extra shot might help emphasize the idea that R2 was the bridge between Luke and Leia’s possession of the saber. I wonder if you could also use that whip pan effect to exclusively use that shot of Luke from the teaser, that way you don’t have to try and match the two separate shots.

Post
#1453764
Topic
The Starlight Project Part 2: The Last Jedi (WIP)
Time

This thought has crossed my mind before, but when you lay it out like this it is soo good. It also would carry some weight into TROS for those who like it, with him reclaiming it at the end.

With how brief the shots are of Ben’s saber, I don’t think it would be too insane to replace it with Anakin’s saber. I’ll go throw some suggestions for the TFA Force vision in the TFA thread.

Post
#1452865
Topic
Why Rogue One doesn't work well as a prequel to Star Wars
Time

I think if one wanted to remove this apparent contradiction between RO and ANH in an edit, you could add some new off-screen dialogue during the first shots of Vader on the bridge, where we hear some Imperial officers say something like:

Officer 1: Sir, the rebel flagship is sending a transmission.

Officer 2: Track it!

Then, when Jyn and Cassian die, you fade to white and that is the last we see of Scarif. When we fade back in, it would be the shot of the Tantive IV somewhere in space. Now we can just assume the rebels beamed the plans to them from an unknown secondary location.

I like this idea, but I can already imagine people being like, “So you removed the best scene in the movie?!”

Post
#1450477
Topic
The Force Awakens: The Starlight Project - (WIP) <strong>WORKPRINT V4 RELEASED</strong>
Time

Wow! That’s a lot better than I expected to see in like 24 hours. I could see how maybe a little more work after a decent break and a fresh set of eyes could probably help, but I could see how putting some scratches or glare on that spot could help sell it. Either way, I think it is almost good to go.

Post
#1448389
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Are you referring to the Prequel 3-in-1, Solo, and Rogue One trilogy idea, Anakin?

I guess that is another benefit either an Andor trilogy, or a Kenobi trilogy, because you would have a consistent cast across all three movies. Diego Luna will be in the Andor series obviously, and supposedly Forrest Whittaker and Genevieve O’Reilly will reprise their roles as Saw Gerrera and Mon Mothma respectively. And in the Kenobi series, we obviously have Ewan and Hayden back as Obi-Wan and Vader. And the actors who played Owen and Beru Lars in AOTC and ROTS are also returning.

Post
#1448236
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Temba, his arms wide!

I also see potential for the Kenobi and Andor series being turned into film-length edits that can be used as prequels. I actually think they would be more fitting as prequels than Solo, which has very little to do with the Skywalkers or the Rebellion. Depending on how much content we get for Andor, you could potentially have enough content for two movie edits. And when you throw in Rogue One, you could have a trilogy with Cassian as the protagonist.

Alternatively, you might be able to do the same thing with Kenobi. Even though it is a limited series, it might have enough content for two movie-length edits, so you could potentially have ROTS be Episode I, Kenobi Part 1 as Episode II, and Kenobi Part 2 as Episode 3.

Post
#1448173
Topic
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - Remake
Time

It seems like they’re kind of being ambiguous about its canon status. Honestly, I kind of hope they do fit it in somehow, I’d rather them take a risk and make some changes rather than it being an exact copy of the original.

I know some people have wondered how it could be canon if rpgs by their nature let you choose your own story path, but I think it is easy enough to deal with if you accept that their is just a canon version of events, just like we accepted it back before the Disney acquisition. Also, I think future Star Wars storytelling could simply create frame stories that these games, novels, etc. are being told from, which allows some flexibility on the canonicity of certain story details. Does that make sense?

Post
#1448172
Topic
Why Rogue One doesn't work well as a prequel to Star Wars
Time

thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Godfather Part II is both a sequel and a prequel to the original Godfather, but it could have possibly worked just as well if it had exclusively been a prequel.

EDIT: With that in mind I do agree with what you’re saying, that prequels are challenging to write by their very nature.

Post
#1447914
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

That sounds really good imo.

Not to bring up shit that’s already been finalized, but did we decide not to phrase Palpatine’s lines as, “A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me! I am all the Sith! You are nothing!” because we wouldn’t see Palpatine’s face on the “nothing” line? I feel like Rey’s “I am a Jedi” being a direct response to “You are nothing!” would be the clearest way to phrase it, but I can see how that was decided against based on the shots available.

Post
#1447591
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [FOUR episodes upgraded to v2.0, 3/5 seasons released to v1.0]
Time

With option 2, could you potentially hard cut from Anakin to the logo? And maybe play around with the musical transition, whether it starts right after Yoda gets done saying “Force”, or just cross fading the music at the hard cut? Perhaps another brief cue from the title card track could be used to help bridge the transition as well. Maybe even hard cutting away from sooner might help.

I also wonder if you could keep the hard cut at the beginning too. I noticed you also chose to fade in at the very beginning, but I personally like how the original just started without any fade from black.

If you can’t get option 2 to work I think option 3 would be alright too.

Post
#1447532
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Stardust1138 said:

It’s all ultimately subjective. No one answer is correct but I do think the original creator no matter who they are should be given the chance to complete their life’s work. Unfortunately life doesn’t always go the way we want it to and this is a case of that.

I mean, George sold his life’s work for $4 billion. He didn’t have to do that. Disney didn’t steal it from him. Sounds like Iger gave him the impression they would follow his treatments more closely than they did, but he just as well could’ve made the Sequel Trilogy on his own terms.

Post
#1447485
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

As someone who was perused this site before the Sequels, it is never ceases to surprise me how much opinions on the Prequels have changed. I know a big part of it has to do with the prequel kids growing up, but I also think a lot of people have sort of gotten used to them overtime. I really think this change happened in the year preceding and following TFA’s release, so like 2013-2016.

I know it is common to say this same change of opinion will happen with the ST eventually, but I’m curious to see if that ends up really happening.

Post
#1447216
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Funny that this thread was made yesterday! I was just thinking to post some thoughts I had about the Sequel Trilogy, but wasn’t sure which thread I would post them on.

The Sequel Trilogy is certainly a mixed bag for me, just like it is for many others here, and I agree that it could’ve been done a lot better in a lot of ways. But, there are a few positive things I got out of these films that I wanted to share.

I actually liked how the relationships in the Skywalker family were all in a very bad place. The original trilogy definitely evolved into a family soap opera, and I think Luke, Han, Leia and Ben all being in bad places in the Sequel Trilogy allows audience members who also have their own damaged familial relationships could observe the Skywalker family and take some kind of lessons from it.

For example, a big issue for a lot of people in the ST is Luke. I know a lot of people didn’t like it, but I identified a lot with the regret and shame Luke felt. Some people can’t accept that he would make such a big mistake, and that’s fine. I guess as someone who struggles to change their bad habits and in the process has made a lot of mistakes in their life, it was cathartic to see him overcome his utter failure and grief. If the hero I identified with growing up can go through such a major setback, then maybe I can too.

Another example is Han and Leia’s relationship with their son. They’re not perfect parents, and no parent is. Every parent is going to make mistakes. No matter how hard they try to nurture and develop their children into well-rounded adults, they are going to mess up in some ways. And sometimes their kids are going to mess up too. You could argue this is unhealthy, but I appreciate that despite all of Ben’s mistakes, they loved him selflessly and gave their lives for him.

Han is definitely a father who struggled to communicate and relate with his son. In a way, they all made mistakes with Ben, and Ben made mistakes with them too. But despite being literally stabbed in the heart by his own flesh and blood, he places a gentle hand on the face of his son. There is something powerful to me in the genuine selflessness and love Han displays for Ben at the end. It’s the ultimate forgiveness. Obviously most children aren’t going to kill their own fathers, but I appreciate what it represents. Children may hurt or disappoint their parents, but parents still have this ability to love them unconditionally.

I know we all would have preferred to have had an actual scene between Ben and Leia in TROS, but in a way, I think Leia dying before Ben has chance to make it amends works narratively. I’m sure a lot of people have had the experience of losing someone before they were able to get some closure, or heal some wounds of the relationship. Just to speak personally for a minute, my grandparents helped raise me, but as a child and young adult, I feel like I didn’t really show how much I appreciated them when they were alive. I still carry this guilt. They devoted their lives to take care of me, and what did I do for them?

For Ben, he feels like it is too late for him to “come home” because his mother’s gone. But the vision of his father reminds him that what she believed in, and what she fought for, is not gone. My grandparents aren’t around anymore. I can’t take care of them and show them my appreciation. So instead, I have to decide to try and live in a way that they would’ve wanted me to live, and I have to try and make sure the effort they put into raising me doesn’t go to waste.

There’s definitely a lot I would’ve done differently with these movies if I was the one making them (which is why I enjoy fan edits), but I appreciate a lot the stuff the filmmakers decided to say about both biological family, as well as found family.

Post
#1446591
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

It’s also possible Kylo didn’t anticipate that she would blow up the ship.

Also, if Kylo Ren was trying to show Rey the power of the dark side, having her almost kill her friend with that power would probably have the opposite effect. At this point of the film, it probably would’ve made more sense for the story to demonstrate to Rey how the dark side can help her accomplish her goals. But can’t really do anything about that.