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RogueLeader

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11-Jun-2015
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20-Jun-2021
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Post
#1432141
Topic
The Force Awakens: The Starlight Project - (WIP) <strong>WORKPRINT V3 RELEASED</strong>
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I believe so. It is originally used in Ben and Han’s confrontation in TFA, which is why I used it here as sort of a leitmotif.

Semi-relatedly, I realized after creating the effect of Kylo watching the shield going down that it could serve as a bit of a metaphor for his emotional state at this point. It’s a bit of a reach, but it works for me 😉

Lol, #starlightdetails

The use of some of the footage from Vehicle Flythroughs was a brilliant idea too. It’s basically the perfect place to put it, and helps give the scene even more weight.

Post
#1432122
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

It reminds me of people defending their student films. Obviously student films are rarely ever perfect, as that is the time when young filmmakers are learning the craft.

But, some student filmmakers struggle to take criticism. People will offer some feedback, but then they’ll say that those mistakes actually aren’t mistakes, and the wooden acting or sloppy writing is intentional. Or maybe viewers struggle to understand the story, and they get frustrated that people don’t understand the plot even though all of the pieces are there. So, is it a failure on the audience for failing to understand the plot, or the failure of the filmmaker to make their plot more coherent?

Obviously we’re talking about a blockbuster and not a student film, but the same thing can apply to any film. George or a fan could say Hayden’s acting is wooden because he’s a Jedi who lacks lacks any social intelligence. Maybe one could use that as an excuse in retrospect, but was that the intention when George directed that scene? And even if it was, is it even the right decision if audiences aren’t feeling the emotions or understanding the characters in the way you wanted them to?

Post
#1432075
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Neerb said:

Tiny nitpick, but do we need the alien to say “Skywalker” three times, or even twice? The second time it says Skywalker, it sounded to me a bit like it’s just reusing the same audio as the first time he says it, maybe it’s just because he pauses after the word both times. Maybe I’m being silly, but I’m just thinking of what the alien actor’s “translated script” could have been and wondering how the same word is used so often in just one or two sentences. Maybe replace one with “Jedi?”

On that note, I also wonder if the voice actor (I forget who exactly, my apologies) couldn’t ham it up just a little bit with their cadence and tone to better match what’s happening on screen in the final cut. Maybe a quick dramatic pause before Luke deflects the blast, then a little flair and excitement in their voice when it happens. Like, in a way the kids could be laughing at how he’s telling the story, and not just at the visual of the puppets.

Thanks for the feedback, Neerb! The “Skywalker” line readings are all definitely unique, not duplicated. I could swap out one of them with a more distinct reading, Creation gave me plenty of inflections to choose from!

I threw in a third “Skywalker” with the intention of making who/what this puppet show is about as clear as possible for your hypothetical first-time viewer. For example, Nev mentioned that his girlfriend didn’t catch what was happening until one or two more rewatches, but that was also with the one-shot version of the scene, rather than the two-shot version. I definitely think we should hear him say Skywalker at least twice, but maybe three is pushing it a little. Having him say “Jedi” would definitely serve the same purpose I was after, so that’s a great idea Neerb!

Creation originally recorded his really awesome alien gibberish before I had anything recorded for the puppet show, so he was just going off how the idea had been described. We were already planning to do this, but now that we have the visuals and the pacing of the scene down, I think Faraday might write new dialogue in a different language that Creation can record. Now that he can see what he is talking about, it could help him add a little more flair to the performance like you described.

Post
#1431980
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I mean the Wayfinder contains the course markers to get to Exegol safely, right? I’m assuming Kylo still needs it to reach him in one piece, but I guess Palpatine could’ve just talked him through it telepathically instead.

“Okay, just take a sharp left at this next black hole, then you’ll go straight for another 12 parsecs…”

Post
#1431968
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

This is nice, ghost!

I really like the idea of Kylo connecting to Vader’s helmet and it “showing” him how to find the Wayfinder/Exegol is a good idea. It’s something I’ve thought about before. Because it does seem like Palpatine has been influencing Ben through Vader’s helmet for years, and it makes more sense for Kylo to connect with the helmet before he knows about Palpatine, rather than after. You would think he would be reluctant to even connect with it after realizing Palpatine has been using it to manipulate him.

But I guess in the theatrical film, he is just using the helmet’s dark side aura to help him reconnect his mind with Rey’s?

Post
#1431957
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

act on instinct said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

act on instinct said:

Everyone’s right, it’s really not a discussion over what technically does or doesn’t qualify as a “plot hole”, more-so plain lazy writing. It’s flimsy and unsatisfying, just because it’s not fundamentally broken at the level of its premise does not mean it wasn’t a rushed fumble. Throwing around the concept of inference doesn’t change anything, when people criticize Anakin’s line “I don’t like sand” they aren’t complaining that it doesn’t connect, it does, it’s still poorly written and executed.

Except inferences are there to clog up plot holes so the story would make sense. Why do you think J.J. had Kylo Ren be injured in TFA?

And “I don’t like sand” DOES make sense. He’s using it as a comparison to describe how nice and beautiful Naboo and Padmé are.

Secondly, Anakin grew up with an organization that kept telling him to repress his feelings and attachments, so of course “I don’t like sand” was gonna sound so awkward and lifeless. It reinforces how awful the old Jedi Order is.

You didn’t read what I said at all. My point was that technical connections don’t absolve poor execution. You can cook a chicken without burning it and still make a bland meal.

How are they poorly-executed, exactly? “I don’t like sand” was executed well, it reinforced how bad the old Jedi are and was a natural progression of Anakin growing up with it holding him back emotionally.

You’re looking at that line from a logical, script perspective. Not from an acting, directing, or chemistry perspective. And I think that’s why you will continue to not understand any of our perspectives because you fail to at least acknowledge some of these decisions were executed poorly, whether or not the idea is good on paper. You are still more than welcome to like them, though. Just because it works for you doesn’t mean it should work for everyone else.

Post
#1431913
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

poppasketti said:

RogueLeader said:

Here is the two-shot test for the puppet show. I made a few changes but I’ll wait and see what people notice. Let me know what y’all think.

https://vimeo.com/554491835

👏 Awesome job, RL! Just awesome!

Thanks Poppa! Also wanted to thank you for creating a separate plate just for the bottom half of the shot/stage. Didn’t realize what it was for at first version, but once I did, I have truly appreciated how much work you saved me. 🙌

Post
#1431909
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Just sharing my to do list for the next test:

  • A little more bouncy movement for the puppets in the wide shot (MR)
  • Cut away from CU shot before the intense whispy dust blows across frame (krausfadr)
  • Potentially remove the storyteller’s hand from the CU shot. (DMC) MR might help with this change.
  • Un-reverse shot of kids turning their heads (Burbin)

Am I missing anything? Also, I actually applied a little grain to the puppets themselves, to try and help make the elements blend in a little more (especially in the CU shot, since it is naturally more grainy from being cropped), but I’m not sure if it is helping, so I might remove it on the next pass.

And if people wanted a green saber I could probably change the color easily. But I do agree that I think blue makes more sense.

Thanks again for the feedback and the positivity so far!

hedgesmfg said:

Do you need a nice usable 4K shot because I can provide you with one? (4K HDR or SDR)

I’ve gotten covered for this scene, but I may hit you up for other shots in the future. Thanks for the offer!

Post
#1431853
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I think the problem with reversing the footage is that the smoke and the stuff wafting in the air looks sort of weird in reverse.

Roto-ing the hand would be great if you want to try!

And I’ll try to make both puppets bounce a little more the next version.

EDIT:

krausfadr said:

The two shot is amazing. The cut made after the second puppet shot needs to be at a point before or after the whisp of white dust. That sudden movement doesn’t quite jive with the stillness in the shot of the kids afterword.

Yeah, this was something that was bugging me too, I’ll see about cutting a frame or two earlier.

Post
#1431844
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Movies Remastered said:

Love the two shots. The close up really works great. The first shot feels a little flat though. Is there any way to exaggerate the AT-AT walk, like a bob up and down walk like a kid would do? Or like an articular front to back leg movement like a dog walk?

Yeah, I could try that. I didn’t want the AT-AT to do too much, because I didn’t want people’s eyes to be drawn to it and not at the Luke puppet, but a little more movement probably wouldn’t hurt.

Post
#1431820
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Knight of Kalee said:

Cadavra said:

Further, removing the dialogue doesn’t solve the problem of gathering such a large force so quickly. You would need added scenes to do that.

To clarify, I’m not proposing a better justification for assembling the fleet so quickly. I’m proposing eliminating the very idea that the fleet was assembled so quickly to begin with, but rather that it was already assembled by the time TROS begins. Poe’s lines are a hurdle to this change because, as one of the Resistance’s top leaders (and THE co-General by the time of the final battle), he would presumably have some idea of the fleet’s actual size.

Yeah, this make sense. I honestly expected Lando or Poe would transmit an inspiring message to the worlds much like Ezra or Mon Mothma did in Rebels, asking them to meet Lando at some kind of rendezvous point. Not saying all the people in the galaxy wouldn’t be instantly swayed by Lando’s charm but it feels a bit of a reach to think the Falcon visited the systems one by one (considering most of them were also besieged by First Order forces) in such a short span.

This is the canon answer. He went in person to a few places but he beamed an inspirational message to the rest.

This would’ve been great, if we actually saw that message… At the very least I wonder if we had a shot of R2 start recording Finn and Poe as they give their speech would be enough to imply that it is their speech that is the message Lando and Chewie broadcast when they go to the Core Worlds.

But, I do think the new crawl helps get the idea across that people are rebelling across the galaxy now. I think cutting Poe’s line, “They’ve given up” could potentially help. I mean, if we’re recontextualizing Kijimi to be in the middle of a revolt, it might come off as weird for Poe to say “they’ve given up” when they’re literally watching explosions in the distant streets. So the conversation could go from “Everyone is so afraid” to “Hey, they win by making us think we’re alone…”

With that said, I do think that the new crawl, the puppet show, the potential Kijimi rebellion changes, etc, stuff like this helps sets up that hope lives in the galaxy, and for the fleet to show up in the end, I think.

Post
#1431662
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

CaptainFaraday said:

Could someone send me the scene of the Jedi voices speaking to Rey? Even a streamable link is fine. I just want to send it to Ross (the actor who played Sors) so he can match his performance style.

Still kind of blows my mind you know this guy. You’re full of surpises, Faraday!

Give me a few minutes and I’ll upload that scene for you. Should it basically stop before Palpatine says, “May your death be the final word in the story of rebellion?”

Also, do you want the theatrical version or Ascendant version?

@rpvee Yeah, someone mentioned that earlier I think! I wonder what instigated that change.

Post
#1431614
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

poppasketti said:

RogueLeader said:

I’ll see about trying to upscale the plate later today/tomorrow, but if anyone else wanted to have a go at it, here is the Google drive link Poppa provided awhile back for the clean plate.

Hey, I found a few minutes! Uploaded the 4K backplate for the puppet show from sherlockpotter’s source to the same link. Thanks, sherlock, it is sooo much sharper. Honestly, it makes me want to remaster the film in 4K (hehe, in about 5 years).

I had to tweak the color slightly to better match the HD version we’ve been working with and got it in the ballpark, but it may need some refinement (and Hal’s LUT ultimately).

The trick to using sherlock’s MKV (which is great because it’s right from the disc, no conversion) is to use an app called TSMuxer to demux the mkv into just it’s video component, which was a .264 file. The .264 actually works in After Effects, but it’s a bit slow. I only needed a few frames so I just used it as-is. But you can also use (sorry MR!) ffmpeg to change the container from .264 to .mp4 using the code posted by sade1212: “ffmpeg -i inputfile.264 -c:v copy outputfile.mp4”. There would be no conversion so it’s incredibly fast and without any quality loss.

Poppa! This is great, wasn’t expecting to get this so quickly. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule!

I actually just redid the scene for the two shot version using the mp4 version of Sherlock’s source he provided, and it looked fine to me. But I might try to convert it in one of the ways you mentioned.

Post
#1431589
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Movies Remastered said:

RogueLeader said:

but you could argue they’ve had a set change since they started talking. What do you guys think?

It was talked about when Poppa and I were working on the clean plate. The first one is debatable but the second definately could be a set change. I can try to remove them if you’d like though.

I think the only shot that I think would be worth the trouble would be that second one. The first one, and the one where we see the stage before the puppet show, could be cropped from a 4K source, since they’re both on the edge of their frames.

Post
#1431549
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

While I was playing around with the two shot idea (I think it’s going to work!) I did notice that we do see the puppet stage from a side angle two more times after Rey kneels down to speak to the alien girl.

Imgur

Imgur

The first one would be easy enough to crop, I think. I’m debating if that second shot is worth messing with. The yellow alien entering left of frame walks past it, so you only see the stage for two or three seconds. I could try covering the gold thing with the walker puppet, but you could argue they’ve had a set change since they started talking. What do you guys think?

Post
#1431515
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

poppasketti said:

Yes, RL, amazing!!! Maybe I’m a little sentimental right now, but it’s frankly adorable. I agree that having a second shot would be nice, and that yes, cropping into a 4K clean plate would be the best option.

I did try frame interpolating in After Effects a while back to slow the shot down instead and found the results unsatisfactory. It is because of the dust, as DominicCobb said.

The source file given to me was 1080p so that’s what I worked with, but it’s a completely non-destructive AE file, meaning I should be able to simply swap in the 4K source sherlockpotter and turn on continuously rasterize in the precomps. When I can find time… MR I may take you up on that and send you my AE file! We can PM the details.

Thanks for the compliments poppa! And thanks for providing that plate. If we could replace/upscale the plate to a 4K version, that would be great. I’ve been messaging MR as well so hopefully we can figure something out!

In the meantime, I think I’ll play around with retiming the scene to fit two shots .And then maybe see about extending the shot by 4 or 5 frames, just so we can squeeze as much out of this moment as possible!

sherlockpotter said:

(I’m pretty sure the general idea originally was suggested by someone else. I can’t remember who, but I don’t think I’m clever enough to have thought of this on my own.)

https://streamable.com/gnkec6

Lol, I love the proof of concept. Can we just put this into an edit?

I’m pretty sure I was the person, or one of the people, who suggested that idea. I would probably have one shot of Kylo and Luke just having a stand off, and then in the second shot Kylo takes a swing at Luke, who ducks below the stage, and immediately pops up behind him, making the children laugh. This would be fairly easy to do, if I had a Kylo puppet. It’d be much easier to time this than the timing of that damn fireball! But I think people at the time had some good arguments for why it should be the AT-AT vs Luke rather than Kylo vs Luke. If there was enough demand for it, and Faraday had time to design a Kylo puppet, I wouldn’t mind putting something together.

Movies Remastered said:

Thanks, Sherlockpotter. I’ve already got the full movie in .mkv but it’s the codec that screws everything up. If anyone knows how to convert to .mp4 without ruining everything please let me know. Handbrake doesn’t work and I’ve tried to use ffmpeg but really don’t wanna risk messing up my computer with more terminal stuff.

Funny that you mention this, because I went down the same rabbit hole with Handbrake and ffmpeg and I still have the same problem too!

Post
#1431494
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

axlanian said:

Now, I had seen people on here mention that the pregnant pause in dialogue in this cut was unfortunate, and some wishing that it ended on “You are nothing” so that it’s clear that Rey is responding to THAT specifically. So I let the Sith voices do the talking during that pause. Honestly, I’m pumped about how this is going, but I need everyone’s ears. Does this rule? Or does it suck?

https://vimeo.com/553993952

This is really cool! Maybe I’m a little biased but I like it. It’s subtle, but adds to the moment. The echoing “nothing” whispers was a clever way to get that idea across with Rey, too.

It sort of makes me think of the way Palpatine’s voice is in this ROTS scene, when he knights Anakin as Darth Vader.