OutboundFlight

yotsuya said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

yotsuya said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Science fantasy is an oxymoron. Star Wars is fantasy. Space fantasy if you want to be specific. The problem is people tend to equate fantasy to the past and sci-fi to the future, and see them as otherwise interchangeable. In reality, sci-fi is more like a historical story set in the future. It’s supposed to be believable as something that could happen in our world.

That is the definition of Hard Science Fiction. Most science fiction does not fit that definition. Arthur Clarke wrote hard science fiction. Isaac Asimov wrote what gets called soft science fiction. The distinction is scientific accuracy vs. science inspired. All of Lucas’s inspirations in the science fiction genre are soft science fiction (Dune, Foundation, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon). The emphasis is not on science but on using what science can project to tell a story of adventure. Lucas sets his as a fable by placing it a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, but he is not the first to do that or the only one.

To be science fiction, it has be about science.

Anyway, we’re going on tangent endlessly debating something nobody is likely to change their minds on. Let’s get back on topic.

That is the definition of hard science fiction, not the science fiction genre as a whole. The genre was born from adventure fiction of the 19th century and has always been quite loose with the science. Even scientists like Asimov didn’t make their stories just about science.

Official definition of “science fiction” according to Merriam-Webster is fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component

Technology is not the driving factor in Star Wars. It’s the Skywalkers.

Hard sci-fi is just a probable look into the future. Soft sci-if is unlikely and a bit fantasitacal, but nevertheless is centered around tech. Trek’s future is still technically possible, although extremely unlikely. Asimov is not the definition, just because he wrote fantasy once doesn’t mean sci-fi = fantasy.

NeverarGreat said:

OutboundFlight said:

I’d like to add onto that- the Death Star is not the focus of ANH. They don’t describe how it works. The moths don’t argue on the morality of their actions. The primary focus of the movie is Luke’s adventure.

In Lord of the Rings we have the Uruk-Hai, a new invention that makes orcs stronger. That’s not the sci-fi, it just raises the stakes. Likewise a station with the ability to destioy a planet through magical crystals is likely impossible.

Magical crystals = only likely impossible.

Would you describe Star Wars as what if the government acquired magical energy crystals enabling them to destroy planets?

I’d like to add onto that- the Death Star is not the focus of ANH. They don’t describe how it works. The moths don’t argue on the morality of their actions. The primary focus of the movie is Luke’s adventure.

In Lord of the Rings we have the Uruk-Hai, a new invention that makes orcs stronger. That’s not the sci-fi, it just raises the stakes. Likewise a station with the ability to destioy a planet through magical crystals is likely impossible.

I do not think the term “science fiction” applies to Star Wars in any way shape or form. It is fantasy, and here’s why.

First, a dictionary definition on Science Fiction: fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets.

Key word is future. Science Fiction, whether hard or soft, relies on science to imagine a future- which could be from tomorrow all the way to millenniums ahead. 2001 is hard science fiction. Star Trek is soft science fiction.

But Star Wars does not imagine a future, in fact, it doesn’t even take into account science. Not even our history is remembered.

Instead we are taken to a world entirely separate from our own, with entirely different scientific laws. The Star Wars galaxy is like Middle Earth. Star Trek might create vast portions of the galaxy, but it’s still got the Sol System.

On Google, Jurassic Park files first under “fantasy”. Star Wars files first under “sci-fi”. Somewhere pop culture began associating anything in outer space as science fiction, and now Star Wars must be sci-fi because it is in outer space. But it’s not. On the other hand, Jurassic Park is pure science fiction. They spend an exntended time explaining how they brought the Dinos back and let us watch the ramifications. Like most sci-if, jurrassic park raises questions on human progress. Star Wars does not deal with science. Light speed is a thing, because it is needed for the plot. Dropbox is not, as its existence would create a giant plot hole.

I guess what I’m trying to say is the difference between science fiction and fantasy is that in science fiction, the story tells us something meaningful about scientific advancements (whether political, economical, or cultural). But in fantasy, science serves the story.

Back in the 70’s, stories set in outer space were always about the future. Star Wars was the first to change that. It took the classic “fantasy world” popularized by JRR Tolkien and created a “fantasy galaxy”. But space travel was so rarely thought of and out there, people assumed incorrectly. As space exploration becomes increasingly closer, I imagine people will finally see Star Wars not as sci-fi, but as fantasy that just happens to take place in outer space.

yotsuya said:

OutboundFlight said:

In A New Hope, all of a sudden there was sound in space.

Not the first SF film to do that.

Fair, but it still contradicts real life. Therefore, star wars physics is not equal to real life physics. So you can’t say SKB contradicts star wars physics, unless at some point in the franchise they say "it is impossible for a red planet destroying beam to be seen throughout the galaxy. > >

In Empire, all of a sudden you could fly to other planets without the need of hyperspace.

Not the first SF film to do that. Besides, if you consider each system named to be a planetary system rather than a star system, all those planets could easily be circling the same star and no laws of physics are broken.

But that’s not the case: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bespin_system. According to Wikipedia, Bespin and Hoth are three systems away, which is impossible to reach at regular speed.

In Return of the Jedi, all of a sudden a moon sized space station can be flown through under the span of a couple minutes, besting even an explosion.

They aren’t flying faster than light so what’s your point?

The Death Star 2 is 200 kilometers in width, about 100 to the center. How does a ship fly through all that in a couple minutes? It’d have to be very fast, and in that case crash into something.

In The Phantom Menace, all of a sudden every star system in the galaxy could meet in one room.

This is just silly - not SF at all and not the first council of many civilizations seen.

A New Hope stated there were thousands of worlds under the Empire’s rule, and that fear will keep the local systems in line. That means all the tiny local systems must all be present at the senate meetings, and that is just impossible given what we were shown.

In Clones, all of a sudden you can erase the existence of a planet and no one will notice.

Well, as this was just in the Jedi Archives, this is hardly SF related in any way.

So no one in the Jedi Order didn’t stop and think "hey wasn’t there a planet here? Or just go on the regular republic database and notice a planet?

In Sith, all of a sudden the galaxy will just unanimously join a new Empire led by a scary guy making contradictory claims despite a prior civil war having just ended.

Now you are stretching things. It is based on 1930’s Germany and many other countries that have let a dictator/emperor take over.

Right after the CIS finally surrenders and joins back to the Republic, they notice exactly what they feared was going to happen and just roll with it? If they went into action beforehand why not now? This is like if a bunch of German Socialists rebelled against Weimer but then just didn’t care when the Nazis rose to power.

Star Wars physics have been contradicting themselves since day one.

Well, as a lot of those had nothing to do with physics, that really isn’t a point. Shall we talk about how Star Trek constantly broke the laws of physics? Don’t pretend any hollywood SF franchise or film was truly faithful to physics. They take short cuts and break the rules all the time. Constantly. That does not make Star Wars some other genre besides science fiction. But even so, most do a pretty good job of not being too obvious or providing some in-universe explanation to gloss over the errors. TFA didn’t even bother to do that.

Umm… Star Trek redesigned their species for the sake of looking cooler. If they changed the look of Chewbacca and the Wookies in Ep 7 I think JJ. Abrams would have been assassinated by the purist Star Wars Fandom.

My point with this is to bring up that the PT and to an extent the OT are just as guilty as the ST is. Would you have preferred if Finn and Rey had not seen Starkiller, and someone just tell them instead? There’s a little thing called show, don’t tell, which people love to say about TLJ but criticize TFA for accomplishing.

In A New Hope, all of a sudden there was sound in space.

In Empire, all of a sudden you could fly to other planets without the need of hyperspace.

In Return of the Jedi, all of a sudden a moon sized space station can be flown through under the span of a couple minutes, besting even an explosion.

In The Phantom Menace, all of a sudden every star system in the galaxy could meet in one room.

In Clones, all of a sudden you can erase the existence of a planet and no one will notice.

In Sith, all of a sudden the galaxy will just unanimously join a new Empire led by a scary guy making contradictory claims despite a prior civil war having just ended.

Star Wars physics have been contradicting themselves since day one.

Forgive me if I’m wrong (I have no idea) but is there any non-pirating way to obtain the Biggs Scenes? His mention of “off the blueray” suggests he is using his own copy, so that copy must not have the scenes. Does any copy have the scenes?

As a reply to the original post, not whatever confusing extended argument is happening atm

You are putting too much thought into everything, when the reality of the situation is the director. Love it or hate it, it’s the director vision that determines all these continuity errors. And I don’t have a problem with it. JJ Abrams wanted to tell a story of a grand return for both the force and the SW franchise. Rian Johnson wanted to shake Star Wars to the very core, tearing out everything we once knew. Both succeeded, and all these minor details support their goals.

Would you have rathered Dave Filoni and crew make Anakin like he was in the movies, and let the series tank with such a terrible lead? Sometimes it’s best not to look at things as a whole, but just as that one director’s vision.

It actually might work if Anakin comes to Kylo: considering he is around Kylo’s age and was tempted by the dark side as well at this time of his life.

Darth Lucas said:

timdiggerm said:

And that is the problem with all these lovely images people have been posting. Until they’re feasible as video, they’re not particularly useful.

They’re all feasible. It’s just a lot of work.

This kinda makes me want to bring back this thread: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/A-Collaborative-Star-Wars-Saga-Edit/id/60169

These changes are very nice, but way too much work for one person. But a group of talented editors could pull it off- it’s not just one guy who does the vfx in Hollywood.

Jump to the Old Republic.

It’s just a bunch of haters jumping to conclusions.

“Only a Sith deals in absolutes.”

Leia showing up at all was pure fan service, and really makes no sense if you think about it. What was a senator doing at the Attack in Scariff? Strategically speaking all she was was a liability. If she was captured, Alderaan would be proven guilty of rebellion. She wasn’t fighting nor did she have any expertise, and the plan was to escape via the big ship (as per Raddus’s orders) not the freighter. Why is she there?

I don’t think this show will explain much politics- it’s just a kids show with a random pilot character. The character won’t do much and go on random fun side adventures. This isn’t going to be the media that finally explains the complicated politics for the diehard fans.

I want to see an Ep 9 with an identity. Ep 7 was all about bringing back the good ol days and many enjoyed it. Ep 8 was about tearing the past down, and even if it was controversial it did so for an independent 9. I want to see Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo’s story, no more old characters. Right now, I can’t imagine being hyped to see Rey in 30 years for the SST.

SilverWook said:

If AOTC is any indication, there are a lot of seedy bars with Deathstick dealers on Coruscant they could practice in. 😉

Shady Figure: Hey you wanna buy some deathsticks?

Young Padawan (mind trick): You will give me the deathsticks for free.

I think it depends on what you want to use it for. It could probably be trimmed into a decent Star Wars kids movie. But I don’t think it can be fixed to the point it’s worthy of joining the live action features (unlike tcw).

Anakin Starkiller said:

LostTman1093 said:

Anyone can also just combine Umbara into it’s own movie, it’s pretty self contained.

“Assualt on Umbara a CLONE WARS story”

I like the sound of that.

Don’t want to steal Smudger’s thunder in his thread, but I am working on exactly that. Was waiting to get a trailer done before posting my own thread.

Unpopular onpinion: Lando is just a Han clone and offers nothing to the story.

Lando is a really fun and cool character in Solo and Empire, but once he turns good he’s boring. In ROTJ, they didn’t know what to do with him. They had too many characters, put Han in the falcon or Lando on the ground and the story would of been exactly the same (except for “I love you”).

I was perfectly fine with them abandoning Lando in the sequels. His story is finished, and it’s not like his son is evil like Han. Him not appearing raises the stakes in the EU, when Lando almost died in the Battlefront II campaign I legit thought he might. But now we know he survives until that strange week 30 years later, when the entire galaxy is flipped upside down.

IMO you can skip through a lot of the MCU movies- they are all subtly building a universe but only a few radical shift things up. So if you want to catch up quickly use this list, then go back and watch all the other great stories when you aren’t as rushed.

• Captain America 1 (optional but know about Bucky in WW2 if you’re gonna skip)
• Avengers
• Captain America 2
• Guardians of the Galaxy
• Age of Ultron
• Captain America 3
• Thor Ragnorak
• Infinity War

Ant Man and the Wasp doesn’t set up Avengers 4 until the post credit scene, which you could probably find on YouTube or Wikipedia. It’s a fun story but if you come looking for Avengers hints you’ll be disappointed.

I think Star Wars could take an “MCU” style with it’s underworld (with Solo the first in this sub-series). You could have stand-alones for Boba Fett, Lando, and a bunch of new characters. Then you could have a team-up movie where these underworld characters work together to steal something for Jabba. Of course, I’d also like for true stand-alones and separate trilogies by a creative head.

Anakin and Ashoka have great chemistry, and his teachings directly impact her growth as a character. Another Jedi or Obi-Wan just wouldn’t have been the same. It’s especially tragic considering we all know what happens in Ep 3.

Although I am annoyed they kept her around for rebels. Why has she never been mentioned before? She should of died in Order 66, or against Vader.

Star Wars is at its peak now. You can hook up a VHS and play the classic original trilogy on your tv. You can read the Thrawn books and play the old games. You don’t have to consider the PT or ST canon, and everything will be the same. The only thing that’s changed over time is the amount of content fans can enjoy. It’s up to the fans to choose whether they like and wish to acknowledge said content or not.

By going on and on about how much one hates TLJ, one only reminds themselves of their hatred and can never move on. If ya don’t like, consider it fan fiction and forget it existed.

Anakin had really short hair at the start. It gradually got longer as the war progressed.

The whole “revived” series looks much more film accurate. The Jedi now wear full robes. Before only had a variant of clone armor, due to technical restrictions. Over time animation quality gradually increased, and it looks like they finally reached accuracy.

JEDIT: I agree with more seasons. The streaming service could probably survive on its own with just a rebooted clone wars series. But at the same time I’m just happy they can finish it off.

The plan was to end at Season 8 (which is two seasons and a half). I don’t think they were all recorded, but a good deal of them were. All had drafts.

We know the season will include the Bad Batch arc (four episodes) and the Siege on Mandalore (three episodes). That leaves five extra slots. I predict they won’t do Dark Disciple or Son of Dathomir considering they already have “finished” versions. Crystal Crisis, being a pre-vis reel and not a finished product, might be redone. But personally that arc doesn’t sound very exciting when they only have 5 episodes to finish the entire series. I really want to see the Cad Bane - Boba Fett shoot out.