Mrebo

Suggestion: Life advice thread

Ambitious. Is there some kind of general advice thread? I don’t want any emotional support!

(ಠ_ಠ)

yhwx said:

Mrebo said:

There is a relatively small matter I’d like views on: accents in the film. I think Boyega sounds much more engaging in his natural accent. Do you think it would have been better for him to speak naturally?

I actually thought that his fake American accent was better her than in TFA. Not sure if that’s just me or the overall acting being more convincing, but those are my two cents on that.

And what about the southern-accented alien (played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt, apparently) at the Casino who reported Finn and Rose to the police? And Tim Hardy was to be to be a southern-accented Stormtrooper in a scene that was cut. Are certain accents, like Southern, too specific to feel right in Star Wars?

I don’t see how “southern” is a specific accent. I mean, it’s an accent like all others with gradations and a large number of speakers. I don’t see any problems with it… and, accents probably have whole different meanings in the galaxy than in our Earth.

I’m a northerner so what sounds normal to me is different than in other parts of the country. But there is a “Standard American” which sounds a whole lot like what is spoken in most parts of the country, including much of the north. Hearing an alien with a Minnesota accent would feel odd to me, nothing against Minnesotans.

In a similar vein, I wonder what people think of Nien Nunb when they can understand the Kenyan languages he speaks.

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

True. Point being though that only Rey cares and this doesn’t change in TLJ. Anytime she brings up Jakku in TFA people think she’s crazy for still caring. Maz outright tells her to forget about her parents.

Making Rey’s parents an issue was a creative choice in the film. Rey’s pining for her parents was the chip on which the story salsa was conveyed, but she is not independent from the film. TLJ made a point not only that her parents didn’t care about her (which was sort of obvious) but that they were nobody. And why would we have thought they were somebody? Because the film set up that intrigue - deliberately exploiting expectations of people on the internet, to be sure. A film attempting to stand apart from the OT shouldn’t do that.

This point for me is more what Luke would call a “a cheap trick” but it’s there. Can’t pretend it’s solely the fault of fans or that dastardly rogue Rey.

No. No one in TFA asks who Rey’s parents are, not even her. In fact, there’s no reason to believe in TFA that she doesn’t know who they are. They are mentioned a few times, but the question mark is all audience. They are only important for Rey’s character. And in that regard, they are important, sure. Rey is waiting for them. This aspect informs her arc in both films. But there is nothing in TFA that suggests that her parents must be, themselves important, beyond their relationship to Rey. Nothing at all.

If you thought they might be somebody, it’s only because Rey thought so too and hoped so. Which makes her learning that they’re nobody devastating in the same way that Luke learning that his father didn’t die and is no longer a Jedi did in ESB. And that’s a good thing.

I didn’t think that Rey thought her parents were somebody important. You take a mystery surrounding them (who were they? why did they leave?) combined with her enormous power, and of course the audience is going to dwell on that question. As noted in my edit, I was hoping that her parents weren’t important. The movie was winking at us to say that maybe they are.

There are unexplained things which leaves the audience to question. Sure, that’s fine. But there’s nothing in TFA to suggest her powers and her parentage are related.

Thing is though, TLJ does answer these questions:

Q) Who are Rey’s parents?
A) Nobody

Q) Are Rey’s parents the reason why she has the force?
A) No, she doesn’t need special parents to have the force

Q) Why is she strong in the force?
A) Because that’s the way the force works

The last two seem to directly contradict what is implied in the OT — you hear things like “the Force runs strong in your family,” suggesting that it’s a genetic/familial thing.

I don’t see that as a bad thing…or true a true thing. “She doesn’t need special parents to have the force” is not the same as “She has to have special parents to have the force.”

Quite. Einstein’s grandson was a physicist. There may well be a genetic component at play, but there are brilliant physicists not related to Einstein.

There is a relatively small matter I’d like views on: accents in the film. I think Boyega sounds much more engaging in his natural accent. Do you think it would have been better for him to speak naturally?

And what about the southern-accented alien (played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt, apparently) at the Casino who reported Finn and Rose to the police? And Tim Hardy was to be to be a southern-accented Stormtrooper in a scene that was cut. Are certain accents, like Southern, too specific to feel right in Star Wars?

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

True. Point being though that only Rey cares and this doesn’t change in TLJ. Anytime she brings up Jakku in TFA people think she’s crazy for still caring. Maz outright tells her to forget about her parents.

Making Rey’s parents an issue was a creative choice in the film. Rey’s pining for her parents was the chip on which the story salsa was conveyed, but she is not independent from the film. TLJ made a point not only that her parents didn’t care about her (which was sort of obvious) but that they were nobody. And why would we have thought they were somebody? Because the film set up that intrigue - deliberately exploiting expectations of people on the internet, to be sure. A film attempting to stand apart from the OT shouldn’t do that.

This point for me is more what Luke would call a “a cheap trick” but it’s there. Can’t pretend it’s solely the fault of fans or that dastardly rogue Rey.

No. No one in TFA asks who Rey’s parents are, not even her. In fact, there’s no reason to believe in TFA that she doesn’t know who they are. They are mentioned a few times, but the question mark is all audience. They are only important for Rey’s character. And in that regard, they are important, sure. Rey is waiting for them. This aspect informs her arc in both films. But there is nothing in TFA that suggests that her parents must be, themselves important, beyond their relationship to Rey. Nothing at all.

If you thought they might be somebody, it’s only because Rey thought so too and hoped so. Which makes her learning that they’re nobody devastating in the same way that Luke learning that his father didn’t die and is no longer a Jedi did in ESB. And that’s a good thing.

I didn’t think that Rey thought her parents were somebody important. You take a mystery surrounding them (who were they? why did they leave?) combined with her enormous power, and of course the audience is going to dwell on that question. As noted in my edit, I was hoping that her parents weren’t important. The movie was winking at us to say that maybe they are.

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

True. Point being though that only Rey cares and this doesn’t change in TLJ. Anytime she brings up Jakku in TFA people think she’s crazy for still caring. Maz outright tells her to forget about her parents.

Making Rey’s parents an issue was a creative choice in the film. Rey’s pining for her parents was the chip on which the story salsa was conveyed, but she is not independent from the film. TLJ made a point not only that her parents didn’t care about her (which was sort of obvious) but that they were nobody. And why would we have thought they were somebody? Because the film set up that intrigue - deliberately exploiting expectations of people on the internet, to be sure. A film attempting to stand apart from the OT shouldn’t do that.

This point for me is more what Luke would call a “a cheap trick” but it’s there. Can’t pretend it’s solely the fault of fans or that dastardly rogue Rey.

edit: I didn’t want Rey to be another relative; I wanted her to be her own person. That is why this doesn’t really bother me. But if you feared, based on TFA, that Rey would be ‘someone important’, I think you can recognize how the TFA set that concern up. And for those who like that she is ‘nobody,’ what if we discover the opposite in EIX?

Collipso said:

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

NeverarGreat said:

Random refrigerator thought, but when did the Resistance come into possession of a bombing fleet? Was it before or after the attack on Starkiller Base, where the entire mission was to hit a large, stationary target with as many bombs as possible? Leia refers to the bombing fleet as if it’s a treasured part of the Resistance, and there are dedicated Resistance crews and everything.

For that matter, when did they get that cruiser and those support ships and their crews? Did they just happen to arrive right after the events of TFA? It’s heavily implied that all of the Resistance attack ships are devoted to the Starkiller assault, and they bemoan that they have no chance without the Republic fleet (which is comprised mostly of capital ships). If they had a massive cruiser the whole time, the Leia would surely have used it to match FO forces at the Takodana battle instead of arriving later in a dinky transport.

I wish I could turn my brain off and enjoy this movie, but it feels like I’m supposed to question these things based on TLJ’s technical plot that draws attention to just this sort of thing.

It’s like the reason people want to know who Snoke is. It’s not because Snoke must be so important in his own right. We want to know how the galaxy-wide celebrations (is that heretical to say here?) at the end of ROTJ gave way to…a new Empire(?) with limitless resources. We assume it’s because of Snoke. And so we want to know how it happened.

Who was the Emperor? How did the Empire get how it was in the OT? The OT didn’t answer these questions and people aren’t complaining about that now.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare those two situations because there were no previously established realities for the situation in the galaxy to challenge. The way it went with TFA is as if TPM was the last Star Wars movie everyone saw and then they make ANH. People would go “wtf? what happened to the republic? to the separatists? what’s this empire?”

We had a established world: the empire has fallen, republic established. TFA tried to push the ANH situation down our throats but the world building wasn’t good enough - they didn’t give us any reasons or didn’t explain what is the first order or what was the republic or how we went from RotJ to the same ANH scenario. That’s what the movie doesn’t explain. It’s not about giving Snoke’s backstory I don’t think (even though that would be interesting once you realise he’s a sith and by the end of RotJ the sith were extinct), but it’s about what happened to the galaxy to get to the point where it was in TFA.

edit: Sorry, this was a really hard post to understand, sorry if it made no sense, it was badly written and not well thought out.

I think, again, that the problem with TLJ lies with TFA. It isn’t as good as some like to think. The crawl is one of the worst offenders. It doesn’t lay out the situation in the galaxy like the others. It just fails and then the movie fails in other ways and ends in a bad spot. I still consider TFA to be the worst of the films to date. It is the only one I have never truly enjoyed.

I’ve been criticizing TFA since day 1. Even TLJ Luke is TFA’s fault to an extent. It’s only better than TPM for me.

Critics of this movie get a lot of flak for dwelling on issues created by TFA. I agree with DominicCobb that these issues shouldn’t be sufficient reason for disliking the film as a whole - but they do stick out. It was TFA that made a big deal about Rey’s parents. It was like getting this followed by this.

Actually, putting the names of the two major party candidates for president in a bowl probably wouldn’t leave us any worse off.

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

Honestly I never really liked the idea that someone as evil as Vader could be saved. If Luke had succeeded right away and he and Vader took out the Emperor…what then? Vader doesn’t pay for any of his crimes? Because if he is going to pay for his crimes, he’s either going to be executed or spend all the galactic years of his life in prison. And if he’s not, well then what?

Same thing with Ben at this point. It’s too late.

Being saved is different from punishment and forgiveness. I think there are people who commit evil acts who do change. Whether they stay behind bars is another matter. I know someone who refused to forgive a parent for something they did (vis a vis others) and even refused to attend the parent’s funeral. I think the child was wrong but that’s me.

I understand the difference. I just don’t know how the character’s story progresses after he turns back to the light. Either all is forgiven, or he’s punished…and if he’s punished, it’s either killing him or locking him up forever. Nothing else makes sense.

I guess in the Star Wars universe you could find something interesting to do with killing him (force ghost I guess) but that’s an odd turn. If you lock him up forever, then what?

I say we should leave him on Ahch-To.

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

But imagine the humor!

Angry Mob (wielding laser torches and vibro-pitchforks): Tell us where Vader is!

Leia (finally giving in): Ahch-To. He’s on Ahch-to.

Angry Mob: Bless you. Now tell us where he is!

Leia: He’s on Ahch-To!

Angry Mob: Gesundheit! We’ll be back after you see a doctor, you might be contagious.

[DominicCobb said:](

It is a valid complaint, but people use it as a main reason

I think JJ went a bit too far in the make it it’s own thing department. For first time SW and more casual fans it’s not an issue. But for bigger fans, of course we want to know what happened in the meantime. But this isn’t the Luke/Leia/Han story anymore.

For the most part, I really don’t have a problem with the sort of en media res sort of approach he took, it feels very true to Star Wars, as if once again we’ve missed some preceding episodes (which allows for mystery and surprises).

But I do think the crawl for TFA could have explained things better, and I think that film could have used at least one Death Star briefing-esque scene to set the stage for what the First Order really is.

But I truly don’t think knowing who Snoke is is all that important, based on what the story is. The whole point of this trilogy is that it’s impossible to get rid of the dark side entirely, so the fact that he’s a somewhat generic and ambiguous dark side user works pretty well. Do I think it’s possible they could have fit in a throwaway line that he’s an ancient Sith lord or whatever? Yeah, sure. But I don’t think it’d really add as much to the story as people think.

I appreciate what you’re saying in this Jedit to your post

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

The simple fact is, TFA is not a direct sequel to ROTJ. It’s more so it’s own story that takes place after ROTJ.

I can agree with this. That’s why I wish this was it’s own series instead of keeping the episode numbers. There’s clearly another trilogy worth of info that we’ve missed. Maybe that info isn’t important to this current tale, but it is important to the larger story.
A person miffed that the ST undoes the victories won in the OT and resets the galaxy to Empire vs Rebels with no explanation is a person with a valid complaint.

It is a valid complaint, but people use it as a main reason why the new movies are bad. No, they’re just not what you wanted, and that’s okay.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

Mocata said:

Snoke’s origin could have been included as one throwaway line. Which begs the question why does anyone want it, because he was just generic evil guy no.27. He killed someone or did something, who cares. The end of ROTJ was eroded over 3 decades so of course things have changed. I’m sure the EU immediately ruined the “happy ending” too with a hundred despotic Empire guys and Dark Jedi weirdos.

And not everyone loves all the EU. Setting the scene is not a “throwaway” because it can be easy to do. I’m not saying a couple of lines would be entirely satisfying either.

DominicCobb said:

Snoke’s rise to power isn’t important in the ST though. Most of all the information you need for the story that’s being told is there.

The simple fact is, TFA is not a direct sequel to ROTJ. It’s more so it’s own story that takes place after ROTJ.

It is a sequel to ROTJ. The fact that it takes place so many years later is all the more reason to set the scene. It’s a cop out to expect the audience to accept anything just because a lot of time passed. It’s not important to the story how 3PO got a red arm and cosmetic changes are expected. It is important how the Empire/FO recovered under the rule of a Sith(?) after it appeared thoroughly beaten.

NFBisms said:

inb4 Episode IX has Kylo turn to the light immediately and the whole movie is the court case trial of Ben Solo.

And then it’s revealed that Rey is actually a Skywalker and also a lawyer.

Episode IX My Cousin Benny

Literal LOL x 3

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

Honestly I never really liked the idea that someone as evil as Vader could be saved. If Luke had succeeded right away and he and Vader took out the Emperor…what then? Vader doesn’t pay for any of his crimes? Because if he is going to pay for his crimes, he’s either going to be executed or spend all the galactic years of his life in prison. And if he’s not, well then what?

Same thing with Ben at this point. It’s too late.

Being saved is different from punishment and forgiveness. I think there are people who commit evil acts who do change. Whether they stay behind bars is another matter. I know someone who refused to forgive a parent for something they did (vis a vis others) and even refused to attend the parent’s funeral. I think the child was wrong but that’s me.

I understand the difference. I just don’t know how the character’s story progresses after he turns back to the light. Either all is forgiven, or he’s punished…and if he’s punished, it’s either killing him or locking him up forever. Nothing else makes sense.

I guess in the Star Wars universe you could find something interesting to do with killing him (force ghost I guess) but that’s an odd turn. If you lock him up forever, then what?

I say we should leave him on Ahch-To.

TV’s Frink said:

Pistol duel!

+1

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

NeverarGreat said:

Random refrigerator thought, but when did the Resistance come into possession of a bombing fleet? Was it before or after the attack on Starkiller Base, where the entire mission was to hit a large, stationary target with as many bombs as possible? Leia refers to the bombing fleet as if it’s a treasured part of the Resistance, and there are dedicated Resistance crews and everything.

For that matter, when did they get that cruiser and those support ships and their crews? Did they just happen to arrive right after the events of TFA? It’s heavily implied that all of the Resistance attack ships are devoted to the Starkiller assault, and they bemoan that they have no chance without the Republic fleet (which is comprised mostly of capital ships). If they had a massive cruiser the whole time, the Leia would surely have used it to match FO forces at the Takodana battle instead of arriving later in a dinky transport.

I wish I could turn my brain off and enjoy this movie, but it feels like I’m supposed to question these things based on TLJ’s technical plot that draws attention to just this sort of thing.

It’s like the reason people want to know who Snoke is. It’s not because Snoke must be so important in his own right. We want to know how the galaxy-wide celebrations (is that heretical to say here?) at the end of ROTJ gave way to…a new Empire(?) with limitless resources. We assume it’s because of Snoke. And so we want to know how it happened.

Who was the Emperor? How did the Empire get how it was in the OT? The OT didn’t answer these questions and people aren’t complaining about that now.

Silly! We weren’t trying to understand ANH in the context of a previous movie. All was needed was a couple lines of exposition. Put it in the TFA crawl.

TV’s Frink said:

Honestly I never really liked the idea that someone as evil as Vader could be saved. If Luke had succeeded right away and he and Vader took out the Emperor…what then? Vader doesn’t pay for any of his crimes? Because if he is going to pay for his crimes, he’s either going to be executed or spend all the galactic years of his life in prison. And if he’s not, well then what?

Same thing with Ben at this point. It’s too late.

Being saved is different from punishment and forgiveness. I think there are people who commit evil acts who do change. Whether they stay behind bars is another matter. I know someone who refused to forgive a parent for something they did (vis a vis others) and even refused to attend the parent’s funeral. I think the child was wrong but that’s me.

NeverarGreat said:

Random refrigerator thought, but when did the Resistance come into possession of a bombing fleet? Was it before or after the attack on Starkiller Base, where the entire mission was to hit a large, stationary target with as many bombs as possible? Leia refers to the bombing fleet as if it’s a treasured part of the Resistance, and there are dedicated Resistance crews and everything.

For that matter, when did they get that cruiser and those support ships and their crews? Did they just happen to arrive right after the events of TFA? It’s heavily implied that all of the Resistance attack ships are devoted to the Starkiller assault, and they bemoan that they have no chance without the Republic fleet (which is comprised mostly of capital ships). If they had a massive cruiser the whole time, the Leia would surely have used it to match FO forces at the Takodana battle instead of arriving later in a dinky transport.

I wish I could turn my brain off and enjoy this movie, but it feels like I’m supposed to question these things based on TLJ’s technical plot that draws attention to just this sort of thing.

It’s like the reason people want to know who Snoke is. It’s not because Snoke must be so important in his own right. We want to know how the galaxy-wide celebrations (is that heretical to say here?) at the end of ROTJ gave way to…a new Empire(?) with limitless resources. We assume it’s because of Snoke. And so we want to know how it happened.

Creox said:

After thinking about this for a while longer (this site has that effect doesn’t it? :😃

I think a lot of the angst with TLJ comes from the marked difference in presentation between the OT and this film…Luke in the OT and the story in general is one of mythology as we all know but it was also written and filmed like a mythological tale. The hero’s are right and the villains wrong…the contrast is deep and wide between the two…very black and white.

We see it as a parable and a story in that very light.

With TLJ we see that changed quite drastically imo. Luke is a Jedi master but he is also very human with human flaws and frailties. We see the rebellion/resistance repeatedly fail and that is a jolt for those of us who have been waiting to see the OT style of story telling. It was for me but in hindsight I was happier for it as it opens this franchise and story to open up into many more possibilities. Looking back at the EU the main plot is always similar to one another.

I felt a closer affiliation with Luke in TLJ because we’ve all failed and messed things up but he was able to find a reason to pick himself up and realize he was wrong…he made things right as he could.

Under the broad theme of good v evil, The OT dealt with complex themes and characters. It dealt with failure and duplicity by the good guys. Telling you to go kill a guy who is, unknown to you, your father is a really shabby thing. It’s very ends justifies the means. The idea that Vader, established as repentlessly evil, could be saved is profound. We do need to scratch just below the surface, but there is tons of complexity.

The problem in TLJ is not that Luke failed but how he handled that failure.

TV’s Frink said:

Politics is dumb.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/republican-yancey-picked-in-random-lottery-declared-winner-of-pivotal-va-house-race/2018/01/04/9c9caa5a-f0a1-11e7-b390-a36dc3fa2842_story.html?utm_term=.79609adb5a5a

A Virginia elections official reached into an artsy stoneware bowl, pulled out a name and declared Republican David Yancey the winner of a House of Delegates race that could determine which political party controls the chamber.

Virginia staged a dramatic, rare election lottery, livestreamed across the country, to settle a tie between Yancey, an incumbent from Newport News, and Democrat Shelly Simonds.

The spectacle drew national attention as an odd way to decide a highly consequential contest. But it might not be the last word in a saga that’s taken more turns than the clay that went into that wheel-thrown bowl, borrowed for the occasion from the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts .

LOL, I don’t disagree with you but that is some great writing.

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Everything is awesome!

not.

Oh hey it’s second grade again!

Not!

Third!

This thread needs more positivity!

Hard disagree.

Flaccid indifference.

Much better name for a band.

TV’s Frink said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Everything is awesome!

not.

Oh hey it’s second grade again!

Not!

Third!

This thread needs more positivity!

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Everything is awesome!

not.

Is too.