Mrebo

Land of Oz

Kingdom of Daventry (King's Quest)

Star Trek (I ponder how transporters/holodecks could be faked)

Tatooine (perhaps when I get wealthy I will build my own Jabba's Palace out west in the desert)

Medieval city complete with castle and dedicated employee RPers

Bingowings said:

Replace the escape pods with 1950's fridges.

lol!

I was pondering how the prequels could have been worse. I came up with the idea that Palpatine was inhibiting the connection with Midichlorians thereby preventing the Jedi from using common sense the Force. Qui Gon discovers Jar Jar who is very strong in the force and has such a unique biology that Palpatine cannot disrupt his Midichlorian Connection. But of course nobody takes Jar Jar seriously and the prequels pay homage to Chicken Little in that regard. So basically, more Midichlorians and more Jar Jar.

TV's Frink said:

Yeah, I'm thinking of dialing back to just Sam bleeps.

I agree with this.

Also liked the pod race. If Anakin had really lost the race the movie would have been exponentially more interesting. I lol'd at Padme's parting "looks like a dictatorship to me." Was all brilliant.

roryoconnor35 said:

Thank you for your comments Mrebo. Could you expand on how you feel the Sith are overdone? I am wary of keeping scenes or characters just because they are cool. For example one of the few things i did like in the P.T. was Vaders birth/construction scene, but it will have to go in order to preserve his identity.

It's my personal taste, but I don't like the notion of their being an ongoing battle between Jedi and Sith and that the Republic is basically taken over by Sith. To me, there are people who use the Force for evil purposes, but don't necessarily belong to a discrete group that call themselves "Sith." It simplifies the real motivations of characters like Palpatine and Vader and makes all the bad guys part of a special group based on evil. Obviously there are a lot of people who enjoy the Jedi vs Sith feud.

I prefer the OT conception. This means relying on a lot of what was not said. How many times did we hear the name "Sith" in the OT? When Luke tried to persuade Vader that there was still good in him, Vader didn't retort, "I am a Sith Lord!" (Because a title would make up for having to slaughter children). The whole notion simplifies motivations and characters too much for my taste.

I read the Darth Bane novels (they were a gift) and that has colored much of my distaste for the Sith. It was a lot of evil for the sake of evil. In that story Bane happened to be Force sensitive and the subject of a lot of abuse and a difficult life. He was a victim of circumstances. I don't imagine Maul being a regular farm boy who  happened to look evil and made a conscious choice which way he would go. An occasional character, like the Emperor or Maul, being pure evil is fine (though the Emperor's motivation was desire for political power) - but an entire axis of the SW universe is off-putting.

I was also toying with the idea of Bounty Hunters being a symptom of decay in an increasingly lawless universe, hence more Boba Fett! But alas no, this creates too many problems.

The bounty hunter thing is an interesting idea. I was also thinking along those lines, of space pirates, etc.

I need Maul as the Dark face of evil, dealing with and commanding the Seperatists/Trade Federation as I want to keep Palpatine's true intentions secret for as long as possible for the benefit of those new to the saga. Dooku is too old to be anyones apprentice. As cool as Christopher Lee is we don't want to share our main villain The Lord of The Rings and Hammer Horror as well. Qui-Gon has been removed for similar reasons.

I'm in xhonzi's camp of wanting to ignore most if not all of the PT. My eyes glaze over when I see the words "Trade Federation." There are a lot of schools of thoughts on these issues and it should make for interesting variety. I'm willing to be convinced that such elements from the PT can be useful and attractive.

Another point on which many disagree is whether to reveal Vader as Luke's father. I agree with you that it should remain a secret. I desire the movies to be viewed in order of I,II,III,IV,V,VI without taking away from the drama of IV,V,VI. Others, like CWBorne, would approach the prequels as if we already know everything from IV,V,VI (at least through their extensive marketing). Perhaps the intention is that the movies would be viewed in the order that they were made, OT then PT. That's not the approach I would choose but I see the merit.

Any ideas on how to do multiple clone wars? Just two would be enough.

I'm struggling with the Clone Wars. Xhonzi seems oriented toward the battle side of things and he wrote a stellar opening scene for his version. I think any series of battles over the same clones could be called Clone Wars. There could be multiple disputes between different sets of planets all over the issue of clone armies...

roryoconnor35 said:

Greetings my fellow fanboys!

I am new to this site but can  see i am not the only one bursting with ideas and frustrated by plot holes. So far there seems to be a number of plot points we all agree with in general:

1: Darth Maul kept and developed.

2: The paternity secret must be preserved, perhaps using a "decoy vader" apprentice.

3: Obi-Wan and Anakin are our main characters, Alderann and Bail Organa feature prominently.

I read somewhere that Obi-Wan should eventually defy the Jedi order in order to train (continue training) Anakin. I can't remember who wrote it or where but this is genius as it compounds Obi-Wans guilt in the O.T.

Also someone mentioned a second (i.e. multiple) clone wars. This is another excellent point as otherwise there is no need to refer to the clone wars as plural.

My outline so far is as follows

No episode one/phantom menace.

Episode one: the clone wars

Episode two: dawn/rise of the empire (which do ye prefer?)

Episode three: revenge of the sith.

I'l post an outline soon but I would like to hear preferences for the second episodes title: Rise or Dawn?

My own two cents:

1. I don't care for Maul. He's cool: meh. I think the Sith are overdone. Anakin didn't become Darth Vader because he was a Sith nor aspired to be a Sith. I would be satisfied if the notion of Sith was done away with entirely. At most I would let it be a label used by the Jedi for those who use the Force for evil and take the quick and easy path. I don't think Maul can be developed more. He's evil because he's evil - just look at him.

2. I agree about keeping the paternity secret. I'm wary of a decoy Vader because it's gimmicky. One alternative is to let Anakin meet his fate off camera and have Obi Wan confront Vader later on, accusing him of destroying Anakin, etc. That means leaving out a duel between Obi Wan & Anakin (also I don't want Obi Wan to look like a jerk in ANH when he tells Luke that Vader killed Anakin - if there is a second decoy Vader then Obi Wan is even more of a liar and we think so from the beginning). But even this route requires some foreshadowing that Obi Wan had previous apprentices.

3. I agree about the main characters.

Obi Wan does hint at arrogance, that he could teach him "better than Yoda."

I like Dawn of the Empire.

None of us will be able to satisfy everyone on every point. Interested in seeing what you come up with!

xhonzi said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

    Edit: I am concerned, however, about such a radical capability as shapeshifting being introduced into the universe. I thought that maybe it could be limited to something a little more chamelion-like. A change in coloring, or course, and a "realistic" alteration of existing facial features.

That's a good point.  If there's one shapeshifter, there's probably a million.  Every military/intelligence outfit in the galaxy would be after these guys to recruit them/force them into obedience...

It's sort of like Clones, as I've mentioned somewhere else here...

Once you establish that there can be clones, why wouldn't they be EVERYWHERE?  Especially if you can clone whomever you like.  Everytime Mon Mothma appears, wouldn't you be at least a little suspicious that she's a clone?  Wouldn't replacing the Emperor with a Rebellion loyal clone be at the top of their to-do list?  If they didn't have any Emperor DNA from which to create a clone, wouldn't getting that DNA be at the top of their list?

Or replacing him with a shapeshifter?

Back to Mrebo's question (can I call you Max?)-

I wouldn't keep any of those characters, but that might just be me.  I didn't find Watto or Quigonn to be interesting or "Star Warsy" in the least.  005 used to run a Watto fansite, and I know a lot of members of this board have a spot for Quigonn... but in the words of Lina Lamont, "I can' stan' 'im."

Max is fine ;D

I agree about Qui Gon. And I don't care for Liam Neeson. He does good movies but there's something weird about him.

About Watto, he had a certain charm and a well developed character. I am predisposed to loathe everything from the PT but I do think certain elements from the PT could work in a properly done movie. And though GL's movies are now more machine than man...I do think Watto represents the better part of his instincts (albeit in CG). And I would want any PT to reflect the general tastes of GL that made Star Wars what it was.

I suppose many of us would have to unlearn what we have learned in order to see anything from the PT without visions of Christensen and Lloyd flooding our minds.

EDIT: What notable element would you keep if any, xhonzi?

I am toying with the idea of keeping Watto and perhaps Zam Wessel (not as a shape-shifter). They stood out as feeling Star Warsy to me.

I understand why people would want to keep Maul and Qui Gon, I think in large part because they had two of the best performers in the films. I have no use for Maul. Such an obviously evil and "cool" character is destined to be superficial. Qui Gon was the only Jedi who seemed to have any sense. I would allow Obi Wan to have Qui Gon's favored characteristics.

Watto and Zam are probably the only elements I would keep mostly intact. What are all your feelings on those two?

TV's Frink said:

Seventeen?

The Rule of Seventeen has a nice ring to it.

I like a lot of your ideas CWBorne. I agree that the PT should give homage to other works. But I don't think it should feel very different from the OT - it has to feel like Star Wars - full of adventure and fun - or it will disappoint, no matter how well done or thought-provoking.

And that is a challenge of the PT, because it is darker and more political by virtue of the story. I think film noir has something to offer. I'm not well-versed in cinema and I tend to think of movies from the 70s as subdued and depressing. Do you have any particular films in mind from that period?

The rise of the Empire should be presented as something not entirely bad. It should be more ambiguous and even hopeful. This will help explain Anakain's desire to join it. The end of Episode III should be something of a triumph, restoring peace to the galaxy. I especially like the idea of there being a parallel between Anakin and the Republic.

I like your characterizations of Anakin and Obi Wan. One big issue I am trying to work out in my mind is to show Anakin's downfall without giving away the fact that Darth Vader is Luke's father. There is also a question of showing the duel between Obi Wan and Anakin without making Obi Wan look like a jerk, telling Luke that Darth Vader killed Anakin. I really want to leave the OT as unharmed as possible which may require making compromises in telling the story of the PT...

Oh.

And LOL, actually.

TV's Frink said:

Female lizards?

http://techland.time.com/2011/05/04/science-creates-all-female-breed-of-lizards/

Also, "In search of a backwards time machine" was an awesome episode of Futurama.

Too many good ideas, had to edit topic heading! I really can't believe the BBC taped over the Doctor Who tapes. And definitely Hepburn.

Inspired by recent episodes of Doctor Who. What Star Wars related activities would you engage in if you had a time machine.

1. I'd become a projectionist at a movie theater and take a pristine 35mm copy of Star Wars back to the future.

2. Go back to 1983 to advise GL about his future endeavors, perhaps show him Episode I. Of course, that could really backfire.

3. Video record Nixon saying, "They have podracing on Malastare. Very fast, very dangerous," then come back and post it on the internet.

xhonzi said:

        Are you focusing on the Clone Wars?

            YES:

                Who are the Clones?

                How does the War pertain to them?

                How does Cloning become irrelevant by the start of Episode 4?

                How is cloning limited to the point that the whole story doesn't get consumed by the idea of clones replacing major players?

            NO:

                What is the "war" setting for your story?  Yes, there has to be a war... it's called Star Wars.

        Is the War 'Symmetrical' (i.e. WWII) or is it 'Asymmetrical' (i.e. Iraq War or the OT Empire vs Rebellion)

            If Symmetrical:

                How does War work exactly?  How does hyperspace affect a galaxy wide war?

                Does your story feature "soldiers"?  Who are they?  Are the main characters soldiers in the War?  Leia's and Ben's comments seem to indicate that they were.

                Who are the armies?  Does the Republic have its own army, or do each of the independent planets have their own armies?  Who is the enemy large enough that this is a full scale war?

            If Asymmetrical:

                Who is the larger force?

        What are the objectives of both sides in the War?  What are they fighting over?

        When did/does the War start?

        How does the War end?

 

Continiuity to the OT:

    Do you show Obi-Wan receiving training from Yoda?

    Do you show Anakin receiving training from Obi-Wan?

 

    Are Obi-Wan and Anakin friends?  When do they have the chance to establish this friendship

    

    How many years before Episode 4 does your story take place and how old are the main characters?

        If Luke/Leia's mom is pregnant at any time in your stories, then that must be within 18 years of the beginning of Episode 4.

    How will you handle the surprises in the OT?  Will you set out to protect them from a chronological viewer?  Or will you show them happen?

        Will you show Yoda?

        Will you show that Luke has a twin sister?  Named Leia?

        Will you reveal that Anakin becomes Darth Vader?   

            If not, how will you protect this surprise?  It must be some way that when the viewer sees Darth Vader in ANH, that he doesn't assume or even begin to wonder if that is Anakin under there.

            Will you employ the "Other Apprentice" ruse?  That suggests that Obi-Wan had an apprentice named Darth Vader that turned to the Dark Side and killed Anakin?

  Will you have surprises in your new PT?  Will it affect anything that we thought we already knew in the OT?  Be careful, you will most likely just tick people off, unless it is done EXTREMELY well.

  How does the Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith conflict play into the back story of the War, if at all?

    If it doesn't, then how does Anakin end up falling to the Dark Side and becoming Dark Lord of the Sith?

    If it does, then how does the Galaxy allow for a Dark Jedi/Sith/Palpatine to be left in charge of the Empire when all is said and done?

    How many Jedi are we talking about here?  A handful like the OT?  Two-three handfuls like the GPT?  Or a lot a lot?

    How many Dark Jedi/Sith?  Please say not 2 per movie.

    What kind of powers do the Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith have beyond those seen in the OT? 

    What is the Galaxy's general response to Jedi?  Are they all assumed to be heroes?  Or are people more like Han where they think that it's all religious nonsense?

    How do your Jedi dress?  (Please say it's not in "I'm disguised as a hermit" robes.)

    How organized are the Jedi?  Are they like a police force in space (like the Green Lantern Corps?) or are they more like wizards that are off doing their own thing and maybe have some form or correspondance or a council every now and then?  Or something less than that?

Where does the Empire come from?  From within the crumbling Republic or without?  If from within, are the forces that cause the crumbling also responsible for the War and are they manipulating to create an Empire as in George's PT?

 

How do the droids fit in to your new story, if at all?

    Probably shouldn't have strong connections to Anakin or Obi-Wan (i.e. The "main characters")

 

How is Anakin seduced by the Dark Side?  What convinces him to serve the Emperor, the Empire and the Dark Side for 20+ years before allowing Luke to show him the error of his ways.

I've read some of your posts but wanted to respond to your last post about casting. I had the thought that Ryan Phillippe would have made a good Anakin in the PT. Google informed me that he did almost get the part D: (but was considered too "old"). I do think I would cast him in my make-believe PT. I'm not so sure he would fit into your remake scheme but wanted to throw it out there.

Video on records??! That is pretty cool.

I see the blasphemy in your post, greenpenguino!

On a more serious note, I'm thoroughly enjoying your work, Frink.

Since discovering this forum a couple weeks ago, all kinds of ideas have been bouncing around in my head. Easy enough to criticize the PT but much more difficult to offer a credible alternative vision. I'm going to post some of my broader thoughts here in the hopes that criticisms and suggestions will help me refine them...

1. I would absolutely preserve the suspense, secrets, and character of the OT (eg not disclosing Yoda's & Vader's identities nor the twins' birth, no Hutts, lightsaber duels on par with the OT, no video game adaptations of the Force).

2. Connected with the first point, I would want the PT to work as a standalone trilogy (that means (p)repeating some OT expositions) that can be watched chronologically before the OT (thought provoking article on this front: http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/structuringtheprequels.html ).

3. I would want the PT to enhance the OT in subtle and profound ways (eg showing Alderaan, addressing conflicts brought up in OT with greater care - Owen vs Anakin).

4. The PT would show the downfall of the Jedi (a humble religious order with little public recognition) and the Republic over the course of the 3 movies - not in intensifying spurts. This development would be important but never overshadow the perils of the main characters (just as the OT concerned the fall of an Empire and the rebirth of the Jedi - but those grand events didn't really feel like the main point of the movies).

Some initial ideas:

1. C-3PO and R2-D2 maintain their ["The Hidden Fortress" inspired] positions. This is a nice idea, since droids can be objective and long-lived observers of a story. Also, it provides some great continuity with the OT when we see them in the hall of the Tantive IV (we care about their fate automatically upon seeing them). The challenge of course, is making them necessary to the story, though not ridiculous like if Vader had been the maker of 3PO -_-. Easiest solution I can think of is to let Senator Organa own them.

2. Main characters: Obi Wan, Anakin, Owen, Bail Organa, Palpatine, Luke/Leia's mother (servant for Organa family), others TBD.

3. Main locations (3 per film, like the OT): Coruscant, Alderaan, others TBD.

4. The opening scene would not be a space battle nor a docking request. We are at the beginning of the story (otherwise euphemistically known as "Episode I"). It would be treated with due care. We might start on a planet's surface. The first word of the movie might be a character calling out "Anakin" as the camera pans to the kind and proud face of a young man). We would get to care about this character.

5. I am most confused about how to handle the Clone Wars. Clones are creepy. They lack a certain humanity and verge on the grotesque (especially as in the PT where they are raised like cattle and used as cannon fodder). In order to deal with this challenge, I have two borrowed ideas: The clones could be copies of a multitude of beings or perhaps as the main means of reproduction of an alien species that attacks the Republic. In any event, this is Star Wars and I want it to be fun and full of humanity!

6. Protecting the secret of Anakin as Vader shall be most tricky. I've read some praise-worthy ideas - having an unnamed former apprentice of Obi Wan that the audience can be led to believe to be Vader; letting Darth Vader be the name of all Sith apprentices. I think the best way might be to let it remain unresolved. As someone suggested (wish I remember who), Anakin might go to his doom at the end of Episode II. He could then reappear as Vader in Episode III for his epic duel with Obi Wan in which Vader is accused of betraying and murdering Anakin (let Obi Wan shamelessly do his double speak ). The audience will hate this Vader character...until they get to Empire and feel double the emotional impact.

I'd appreciate any feedback! Thank you!

Very interested in seeing this!

I definitely enjoy what you're doing with the Gungans, lol.

One thought that crossed my mind was more Admiral Ackbar. Whenever the heroes are headed into a trap, he can pop in to declare "it's a trap!" Perhaps a bridge too far but had to throw it out there.

<blockquote><p><strong>RoccondilRinon</strong> said:</p><p>It's mainly a matter of changing the name, so that its destruction in ANH is more effective. Back when I first heard about the prequels in '97, I thought we'd get to see a fair bit of Alderaan, but as it is we see one side-character from the planet, who's only really important in the last act of Episode III, and maybe thirty seconds on the planet itself.</p></blockquote><p> </p>

I really like the idea of including Alderaan. Then when Tarkin announces he will test the Death Star on Alderaan, we can imagine Vader behind his mask standing there powerless to stop it, the start of his silent struggle with his emotional conflict. Tarkin may be ignorant of Vader's connection to Alderaan or just that cruel. After Leia bluffs "Dantooine," Tarkin says, "see Lord Vader, she can be reasonable." Vader nods and we can imagine his relief. Then Tarkin orders the destruction of Alderaan. Vader stands silently - in shock we can imagine. Vader places his hand on Leia's shoulder and pulls her back to him, a sign of empathy and an expression of his own need for something to hold onto at that moment. The scene works quite beautifully if Naboo were Alderaan.

Another radical change would be to have a coherent story arc throughout all 3 episodes focusing on the downfall of the Jedi. The Jedi would be self-motivated protectors of the Republic but far from central to it. The Jedi would be on the way out at the very start. The depiction of Jedi would be far more religious (think OT Ben and Yoda) than political or warrior-like. It would be clear that many people don't believe in the Force and the people of the galaxy have a love-hate relationship with the Jedi - many are ambivalent or ignorant of them.

The Jedi would have a resurgence of support in Episode II when the Clone Wars erupt, necessitating Jedi help by Chancellor Palpatine. The actual threat of the war (not a make-believe war nonsensically orchestrated) would be used to solidify power and put an end to the Jedi at the end of Episode III. I would like to work some ideas out as a script at some point, though memories of the PT seems to cast a pall on many of my thoughts. Also there is the trouble of dialogue. I'm not much more than an interpreter and not very good at telling stories.

Exciting. Recently watched EP IV Revisited again and I'm greatly looking forward to all the brilliant improvements in EP V.

You're welcome. Totally intentional was my effort to prove your point...

But I would say that such observations are not only a matter of minds playing tricks. To my ears, it sounds like the same exact audio played twice. I'm not a film editor and don't usually watch Star Wars with so critical an eye/ear - save for the PT. To your credit, I don't think your edits make the redundancy more obvious and on a casual viewing I would just as likely not take notice as in the original. I do hope you are able to devote time to your edit.

Very well edited. The one thing that sticks out for me is in the Tatooine clip. 3PO says "I'm not going that way" at about the 40 second mark and then again about 1 minute later.