MTHaslett

I "hotlinked" that image instead of posting it from imageshack because it was easier and I didn't really know what difference it made. But I got called on it and so I redid it-- but I still don't know how I got called on it. So... how off-topic is this?

EDIT: Oh, I get it now! Yeesh. Still embarrassed and now I know why. All I can say is that on my browser the hotlink was working great.

I got embarrassed and I don't even know why.

To repay you for this achievement maybe I should remodel your kitchen or something?  It would take at least that to make the impact your edit seems to be making on me.

March 1 is the new Christmas!

Agreed! This is the most exciting Star Wars project in a long, long time...  Since before the dark times. Before... the Prequels. ;-P

I kid, I kid. I kid the PT because I love the PT.  But this is what I would have asked for in the "Special Edition" release.  This is better than finding lost footage or better f/x. This is rare and inspired. Come on, Christmas!

I appreciate the musings and the insight into your p.o.v.

I imagine your Episode I edit would push some of these ideas to the forefront as well?

I agree with the points you make, but I'd say Lucas left a lot of that material for the fan-editors to clarify!

In support of your argument-- I saw that idea building since the first time I saw TPM. I was SURE that "midiclorians" were an example of it. Midiclorians seemed to me an example of how bureaucratic the Jedi had become. They were actually counting particles of Force! Can you get more misguided? Knowing that we were headed toward the downfall of everything and that Anakin was the proverbial "viper in the nest", I thought it was brilliant.

If only it were followed up on.

But it is good insight on your part that Luke is all that's left in the end-- that's why "no ghosts" feels so right. The ghosts throw that part of the story completely off balance. You're right that cutting Obi Wan down in ESB would be a good change too-- clarifying that death actually means something to these Jedi.

TheBoost said:

SpenceEdit said:

Plus if he had told Luke this in the first place, would Luke have gone with him? Would he have tried to reason with Vader and be killed, thus ending their last hope at restoring balance? If I were Obi-Wan, I wouldn't have told him till he was ready, and unfortunately he found out from Vader himself long before that time.

 It's also worth noting how much Luke didn't know. Dude didn't even know what the Force was, probably didn't know what a Jedi was and didn't know his dad was one. Add on that there's a Dark Side that made his dad evil and that kind old Ben tossed him in a volcano and he's now the evilest man alive... .... talk about a mind blowing experience. If I was Luke I'd go to the cantina and drink myself to oblivion.

But, as presented, Luke faces worse than that. He gets this exact same message in a single terrible moment -- but with the added mental anguish that his pals Yoda and Ben are revealed as liars (by no less than Darth Vader himself). Vader's the only one who tells him the truth. And Luke is man enough to face it and overcome it. He surely could have handled it a few hours earlier back on Degobah. He could have handled it back in Obi Wan's hut on Tatooine. Luke is a hero and lying to him instead of trusting him makes Obi Wan and Yoda deeply flawed. However, as stated, they appear deeply flawed in the prequels as well and contribute greatly to Anakin's fall.

I've wrestled with this one a long time. To me there are 2 Star Wars. There's the one released in 1977 where Obi Wan is noble. Then there's the Saga where they change Vader into Luke's dad and Obi Wan into a liar and manipulator. In the Saga, the real heroes are the Skywalkers.

It's interesting how I think this edit serves both of our interpretations.  The "lie" is a mysterious part of Star Wars and this edit does more to honor Luke's inner life than anyone's ever tried before.

As for cutting the discussion with Yoda and Ben about Vader-- I think it's brilliant.

A) it implies time has passed for Luke to train with Yoda and clear up any uncertainty about this. It will bring much more gravitas to their farewell and mean that Luke's claims at being a Jedi are based on more than running away from his training and getting trounced by Vader.

B) it eliminates the most painful OT moment for me when we had to watch the once noble and honorable Obi Wan use lawyer speak to excuse his manipulative lies.  He didn't tell Luke the truth because he thought he could use Luke against Vader and that lying to Luke would make that easier. Watching his self-serving explanation only debases Obi Wan further. 

The elimination of all ghosts is another of the great ideas in this cut that I'd never considered. 

I think those are good guidelines and I like the direction of the change in the second paragraph. EDIT: but I totally see your priorities, Spence. Get it done is job #1.

I would remove that part that says "Growing impatient for Luke to return, the Princess has developed her own plan." 

If it is left at Lando sending a message to the Princess, then we will be more "surprised" by the Princess' plan. EDIT: In other words, telling us she has a plan is redundant.

Awesome crawl. 

A simple paring down suggestion: eliminate "terrible" in paragraph 1; "successfully" in paragraph 2; and "and fearing that Lando will soon be captured as well," from paragraph 2.

Everything else is pure gold.

I think this is the purists edit-- for anyone who thinks the first two movies represent the real Star Wars.  Anyway, that's how I'm a purist.

May I suggest that little bit of Wicket approaching Leia with the spear go between Luke powering off the light saber and Han waiting for Luke and Leia?

Without the rest of the scene, the bit is so short. It might be more of a coda to the chase sequence transitioning to the "where is Leia" sequence than something to cut to after Luke and Han are worried.  

That's talent, I tells ya!

Amazing clip. I feel that chase like it's the first time.

I know I asked up-thread, but I'm going to risk hassling you about this-- are you going to use the beat of the unseen ewok with a spear walking up on the unconscious Leia? I have long thought of it as crucial and I was thrilled to see it in your edit proposal.

With it, we worry for Leia, we wonder what dangerous thing is out there, and we know where that trap is coming from that Han finds-- more dramatic tension. 

Did you try it?

That was great.

I love that you cut the meet between Leia and Wicket, but do we still see the approach of someone with a spear? It seems like it should have happened before cutting back to Han.

I think it's a valuable bit for building suspense about the unseen Ewoks. Without that hint, they simply come out at the trap which can't be as effective imho.  The trap means more if we think "uh-oh, they already got Leia".

I know I read that you were going to keep that bit, didn't I? With the right suspenseful musical sting, wouldn't it work?

I hate complaining about anything on this awesome edit.

Christmas is coming, the goose is getting fat...

Christmas in the stars.. out amongst the stars...

What can you get a wookie for Christmas (when he already owns a comb?)

...I keep watching it.

You threw this together? You got mad instincts, kid.

Love the cut to the Emperor/DS2 shot. Love. It.

I'm showing this to people.

re: teaser

This feels like waiting for Christmas now.

Or even, dare I say it, waiting for the next Star Wars to come out.

I always liked Hamill in this film, but too many story problems dragged his work down. Now, knowing how much of that is gone, I get chills from Hamill in this teaser.  Brrrr.

Nice...

Totally want the tutorial. I'm dreaming of doing an Episode I cut that will connect with Trooperman's Episdoe II ...and now Spence's Episode VI.

There's no doubt that a legion of lurkers will love a tutorial. You would midwife a thousand fan-edits if you showed us the DIY steps.

YAY! :-)

"Merry Christmas, everyone!"

I can't help with that issue, Possessed, but I want to chime in to say I'm glad you're still going. I appreciate that you tried something that I wanted to see, even though it ultimately isn't where you wanted to go. I am really grateful and I think it was really exciting.

Watching your edit come together has made a lot of things clearer to me personally. ROTJ is a bit of a blank slate because different people have different ideas of what's wrong with it. Thanks for sticking to your guns. I think it's going to turn out great. 

I see what you mean. Another idea I had once about that sequence was to perhaps separate Wedge from the Falcon-- follow Wedges attack, swing around and exit completely-- leaving the Falcon in the core-- then cut away to something else (The Vader death scene)... and then pick up on Falcon's attack/exit.

That way Wedge could fly out of DS2 long before Lando got out and tension could mount more Lando's narrow escape.

This would actually raise tension across the board since everything would remain at the climactic moment for longer.

Maybe the Vader scene is too long for this, though.

Shit. I just teared up watching your clip of the last 5 minutes. Beautiful job bringing the whole saga to a close.  The prequel music is so welcome in this movie-- this is the first "Prequel movie" in a way because it's the first movie they made knowing Vader would be a "good guy" and that everything comes back to that. Until ROTJ, it was two movies about Luke. With ROTJ it became 6 movies about Darth Vader. So excellent job making that work.

I thought you were going to put Vader's death after the DS2 explodes. I'm not sure I want that, but one thing that always bothered me is how fast Lando gets out of DS2 compared with how long it takes to get in.

Have you tried putting Vader's death right after Lando shoots the core and starts his escape? Then after Vader dies, it will feel like Lando has been escaping the appropriate amount of time and he'd better get out fast or die.

EDIT: I also want to say I really appreciate the thought you're putting into this. Keeping stuff you don't like to make the emotional story work is exactly the right attitude, I think. The impact is already showing up in the clips you've done. 

ROTJ's "lack of grandeur" -- what a good way to put it.

My thoughts on this have led me to this: the real problem is the lack of a personal story.

Anyone can tell you ROTJ is the story of Luke facing Vader and getting Vader to redeem himself by defeating the Emperor.  But that's not entirely accurate. First, that story doesn't begin until 1/2 hour into the movie after the Jabba stuff. Secondly, it isn't established in any clear way until Luke suddenly takes it on himself to surrender to Vader in a gambit to appeal to Vader's good side.

If only we were in on Luke's story from the beginning, we'd feel a building tension about what he's going to do when he meets Vader again. If only it felt like the appeal to Vader's good side came out of the themes being built in the story-- if only his final pleas to Vader felt like the dying gasp of the true Jedi race. 

That would bring grandeur to the story. In trying to create it through editing, it comes down to how we key in on Luke through the movie. How can we get to Luke and Yoda right away? How is that scene handled? That sets the stage for everything. Done right, then even the Jabba sequence should be about Luke preparing to face Vader-- honing his confidence and pulling off his first victory since ANH.

Blah blah. I'm excited about this edit because it seems to have approached all these ideas from a cool angle. 

Something about seeing the Death Star out the Emperor's window says "grandeur" to me.

This is amazing. This is the white elephant of the OT. I have always felt like Spence says-- that ROTJ is the worst of the SW movies. But it is also the one that has the most to gain.

I think the ideas here cover as much as can be covered. Every idea that I have been harboring is covered here and taken even a step farther. I can't wait to see it.

This is like waiting for the original release.

Have you done box art? Here's a great piece that I suggested in another thread, but no one's used as far as I know: