MTHaslett

Hey, this is a nice surprise!

Your story about showing your edit to a casual Star Wars fan really got me. I think that kind of fun is why these edits get made. I'm glad that happened! I haven't shown anyone this cut since it's still rough, but I have been tempted. There are lots of friends of mine who utterly hate the Prequels and have never given a fan edit a try. I look forward to blowing some folks away with this one.

I hope everything is going well in the Trooperman household! Glad you're back at it.

dudefromthenorth said:

Oh man, I just heard about this, and it makes my curious about how the excretable prequels could be recut!

Don't be curious. Back out now, while there's time. This isn't the hobby you're looking for.

Weird. I haven't been here in months, but here we all are.

Trooperman, I still enjoy this cut so much. There are lots of technical issues and trims to look at, but there's so much work in here that brings a sincerity to the piece. The earnestness of your edit helps add heart that isn't in the original.

But life is short, do what you will enjoy!

Well!

I just came around the bend on this one to find you all waiting here. I saw the reference to this on Benja's edit thread's first post and thought Prologue sounded interesting.

Then I found the site on Google and the glowing reviews had me panting to get my hands on this overlooked gem. I registered... but then found I was blocked by the adminstrater from actually getting to the site. 

Then I started noting all the random ot.com references scattered in among the comments section and wondered if I'd been caught in some anti-ot.com profiling. Now it seems so and that I'm not the only one. Wow. I'd never even heard of the guy until today, but I'm already on his shit list. 

Now to find that the whole edit is baffling viewers here, well, I've been around long enough to know what Anti-Matter seems unable to understand -- if his edit really rocked the way he thinks it does, then everyone here would be thrilled to admit it.

The site is so nicely made, but so completely uniform in its voice -- I'm more than a little suspicious that most of the posters over there are Anti-Matter himself. He writes himself a review, posts a little thank you as a "new" reader, writes a humble acknowledgement as the mastermind of his opus, then his threads peter out.

It's so fascinating it has almost been worth the hour or so I've spent spiralling down this rabbit hole...

...almost. 

mrbenja0618 said:

Not that it matters at the moment, but a lot of his ideas were finding there way into my Redemption edit. =/

 

 

That is cool and heartbreaking all in the same once. 

The workprint I have of this is still the prequel edit I watch the most.

I haven't found another that brings the love story to life as much, nor feels as much like a fresh new Star Wars movie.

The unfinished beats and missteps are there and I know they can be hard to overlook for some, but I guess I'm lucky they don't bother me that much. I'll always want the polished version of this... until someday, magically or through sweat equity, I will have one.

Merry Christmas to my broken dreams :-(

Good luck, mrbenja!

Just found this awesome image for a potential Jedi Fan Edit cover -- something I just haven't learned to do myself.

Here's a link to a bigger version: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/1513821318435763large.jpg/

Some ideas for Episode 1:

Trimming the entire Tatooine sequence should mean having each scene propel you into the next one. As released, the movie just toddles along with just a shade more direction than if it were completely random.

It boils down to a few sequences:

--Finding a hyperdrive at Watto's

--Finding cover from the storm/meeting Skywalker family

--Getting ready for the pod race

--The Pod Race

--Collecting everything so the Queen can leave Tatooine

--Fighting to escape Tatooine

Looking at each of these sequences-- man, they drag on and on. One thing I notice during these sequences is that the tension is really low until Darth Maul shows up.  Another thing is that Getting ready for the pod race seems to take forever.

So I want to suggest a couple things:

What if you had Darth Maul arrive during the sand storm? The darkness under which he arrives would match visually and actually be more interesting if a steady HOWLING WIND sound effect was laid over it.  Then his seeking probe droids could be cut in among the following scenes keeping the sense of tension higher.

Second, I want to suggest cutting a lot of the pod-race prep. There is a really natural and cool cut suggested by the footage: when Annikan gets his pod racer going for the first time and sits in it yelling "It's working!"... the natural next image would be the swooping in shot over the crowd at the race. Nothing happens in between that matters.

What, you say? What about Watto and Qui Gonn deciding to gamble over the boy slave? Unnecessary, I say. If we don't see it ahead of time, it would be revealed when Qui Gonn goes to collect his stuff from Watto. It would actually be, imho, a nice surprise added to a script starved for surprises.

Sorry for the long post. These ideas may seem to bring up problems. I have thought out solutions, but I'll spare you for now.

It certainly becomes clear that Obi Wan is simply waiting until Luke shows up. This, of course, turns what was subtext into something absolutely clear and undeniable-- a risky course in storytelling.

You might try to include a beat of Darth overpowering Obi Wan before Luke arrives to show that Obi Wan is not going to win... then his smile at seeing Luke will play more as a "surprise" reveal to the audience. "Ah-- he had a plan!" As it is, it plays like Obi Wan could duke it out, but he mysteriously chooses not to (with a wry smile to prove it's related to Luke being there).

I guess it's not really more subtle either way. But if you put Obi Wan more on the ropes, there will be more dramatic ups and downs in this sequence.

SpenceEdit said:

I wouldn't mind Qui-Gon giving Anakin some direction. Any suggestions for a quote from Mr. Neeson, be at TPM or otherwise?

My recommendations (in this order, peppered through Anakin's flight):

"Be mindful of the living Force, young Padawan."

"Don't center on your anxieties. Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs."

"Remember, concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts."

"..They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force."

 "Always remember, your focus determines your reality."

Out of the box idea:

Spence, I think I pitched this to you once a long time ago, but in case it slipped your mind I think you're missing a big opportunity by cutting all the Gungan footage.

If you cut the Gungan/Droid battle into the opening invasion so that it was the Nemoidians totally wiping out the Gungans on their way into Naboo it would do what no one's ever done: establish that the droid army can kick ass.

It provides a lot of opportunities. It would cut nicely against the leader's denial to Amidala that he's doing anything wrong. You could "kill" Jar Jar. 

Placement would be tricky, but it would go somewhere in or around the introduction of the Jedi. Perhaps after the Jedi realize "this is an invasion force".

I like everything I'm seeing here.

An idea that I want to see in an Episode I edit is (as you put it) that Anakin does everything purposefully-- so the space battle gains character and weight.

I think the biggest beat in that, to me, would be an indication that Anakin feels it when Qui Gon dies.

Through some clever voice overs and edits, you could introduce a mind-link between Qui-Gon and Anakin.  Some of Anakin's lines could be in response to Qui-Gon instead of R2 (e.g. "I know what I'm doing" or whatever).

Then, when Qui Gon dies, Anakin goes kamikaze into the ship, spins around, blasts torpedoes at the ship's core, then sits there unable to fly away for a beat... then gets out looking somber and (if possible, through music and editing) changed/burdened/grieved.

Preference and taste is what it'll come down to, so I'm glad it isn't a case of not having seen the options.

Aside from taste, there's no reason the two Han/Luke scenes need anything between them-- wiping directly to the crashed speeder bike would be the right cut. Han and Luke rush off to search. 3P0: "And you said it was pretty here..." WIPE TO: what they find-- Leia's crashed speeder.

But when we get to disputing over taste, it's really time for someone (me) to study that tutorial you gifted us with and put my own ideas out there. Otherwise, this is just looking the gift horse in the mouth.

SpenceEdit said:

Out of curiosity, what are those two things?

For the sake of discussion, the only two things I'd change are:

1) Use a single wipe to Luke at the end of the "Jabba catches Leia" scene. When I saw this the first time, the first wipe-to-Luke was totally clear and the second one confused me-- it wasn't until the third one that I realized you were emulating ESB. That made me want just one wipe at the right place.

2) Move the Wicket finds Leia shot slightly. Currently it comes after the heroes basically say, "I hope Leia's safe"... cut to Leia suddenly being threatened.  That cut feels externally motivated. I'd move it to right after Luke dispatches the last speeder bike to make it feed the following discussion with suspense.

But that's two tiny changes that become less to me every time I rewatch your edit.

Oh, and to answer your questions:

1) I think redubbing Anakin is great, but it has its risks. I don't know if it helps any, but I can honestly say Hayden's voice never really bothered me. I found that he was poorly edited and made to say awful lines, but his voice always seemed fine to me.

2) I would like to see any stretch of scenes where you show the pace and approach you intend to use for dialogue scenes. I'd like to see something you chopped up to fit the pace you are establishing so that all 3 movies will fit here.  Does that make sense?

Wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

You watched Shroud of the Dark Side?

Well, off-topic, what did you think and how does it compare with your Episode II? If you posted a review elsewhere, you can just direct me if you like. I'm very interested in your thoughts.

I'm all, like, I wish you would just make the two small changes that I want because they're so awesome and easy. But then someone else might chime in with some other totally stupid ideas and then you'd probably have to field at least a dozen more after that and who needs it?

It really is a great edit. I'm waiting for feedback from folks I've let in on it. I'm nervous like I actually did something on it.

Well, following up on my comments now that I get another minute, I can give other specifics about that 8 minutes.

I love this as the opening. I just had a couple conceptual concerns. First, I remember almost all of that footage from the trailer for the game, so without trims and changes I couldn't slip the feeling that it was a game trailer.

The human faces all look like animation. As good as they are, they don't compare with the real thing. I think it would help if the close-ups could be more limited.

There's a piece of advice I got about working with cgi that I'd love to see applied here: never use a cgi shot that you couldn't "do" practically. Here's how it was explained to me: Cgi is great for creating realistic shots of impossible things. But when the cgi "camera moves" are overdone you immediately see they couldn't be done if the shot WASN'T cgi. Then the cgi undermines its own sense of realism. There are a few shots that really announce that they are animation-- for example, the Fett-chick in the opening who watches the approaching Sith Lord, puts on her helmet and then the camera "flies" with her up to the next level. It would be more realistic without that camera move.

I'll stop if this is unwelcome. You know I love your work, Spence. But I feel this great opening would be more effective if it were considerably shorter.

I looked at the 8 minute clip and loved the idea behind it and the look of it, but was taken out by a couple things that I think you should consider.

I love that this would set up the prequel story, like the prologue of Fellowship of the Ring. It explains what Darth Maul is talking about and should have been the opening of TPM!

That said, it's too much material in my opinion. It overstates every point. Bad guy shows up at temple, bad guy wins. Bad guy goes to Alderaan, bad guy loses. That's all the information in a nutshell. But the images go on through false ups and downs before getting to the point.

Just a thought. More later.

There are so many changes to appreciate, I love reading about them in the other reviews.

One thing I'm still relishing is how Han Solo is so much improved. Some of my favorite bits are now Han-- like his blasting away at troopers down on Endor. 

Faceshot! Ouch.

I just posted my spoiler-free review over at FE.org where I see Spence's own description is completely full of spoilers. Guess that makes me look pretty silly.

I'll watch the discussion and jump in again if it can be helpful-- but I wish for anyone to experience this one as spoiler free as possible to get some real WHOA! moments out of it.

Alright, I'm back from a terrible stomach flu. Whew. What a waste of time.

I've been waiting for this, as anyone on this board knows. The thing is: I was a Star Wars kid. I was there for the first release of the OT. I was crazy about the stories, the characters, their galaxy-- I got as many toys, comics, posters and magazines as I could about Star Wars and its incredible sequel "Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back". Then the third movie came out... and I went to it... and I came out... so confused.

I couldn't put it in words, I didn't hate it, but the effect was that I never bought another Star Wars comic, toy, or poster again unless it was about the other two movies. I came to realize "Return of the Jedi" was a giant let-down.

The reasons it fails are numerous. First, it's all a giant hand-holding romp; just a victory lap without ever building any real stakes. Second, it is totally disjointed as a story. It tries to give moments to all the characters without doing justice to any. Third, The Jabba rescue was totally inane. Forth, The Ewoks are overdone and (embarrassing) they save our heroes asses. Fifth, Everything Han does turns out wrong. Etc. Luke finished the last movie as a total punk with a few days training and a missing hand-- but now suddenly he needs no more training? Suddenly Vader now worries about how it's too late for him? None of this was keeping with the Empire Strikes Back. Empire was brutal. Jedi is a musical. They just don't match.

Ah, but in comes SpencEdit and his Final Cut.

This fan edit has answers to all these problems and more. There is so much concern here for trying to make ROTJ fit the original Two-logy and, I am happy to report, it revives a dead film. The RETURN OF THE JEDI, um, Returns!

Spence's strategy is simple: This edit removes the giant narrative dog-leg from the middle of the film which has Luke run off to Degobah for an exposition dump. Instead, as would more naturally follow the ass-whipping he received in Empire, the first thing Luke Skywalker does is go to Degobah for more training. So not only is this Luke more consistent with who he was, but the viewer of this story gets to identify with Luke right away as he hears he must face Vader and discover who "the other Skywalker" is. This turns the rescue on Tatooine into a test for the newly trained Jedi; it allows the mission to Endor to naturally flow out of getting the heroes back together; and it makes all the gravity between Luke and Vader feel organic. To support these grand ideas, this edit also tackles the pace of every sequence to remove as much cushion as possible. Now, when people get shot on Endor, it really hurts. Capping it all off strategically is a giant idea that I don't want to spoil-- but let's just say destroying the Death Star won't necessarily get the Rebels everything they want now. Now the personal Luke story has more stakes than ever.

Execution is first rate. The best example for me is the scene I've always hated between Han and Lando, where Han makes Lando take the Millenium Falcon. This has always felt and looked fake to me. But Spence does something brilliant, he follows it up by letting Han's last look at the Falcon from inside the Imperial Shuttle go as a silent observation-- no one but the audience gets to notice how he feels. It makes the whole thing authentic and beautiful; character driven and smart. That's a good metaphor for the effect of this entire edit.  All the characters feel more on target, stripped of their schtick and yet still given their chance to shine (the new intro of Chewie is especially effective).  And not enough can be said about how this has become a fitting finish of the Luke Skywalker story (not to mention a few effective musical choices that make this a fitting finish to the Anakin Skywalker story as well-- this truly completes the Saga). The final twenty minutes of this thing is perfect. I never knew this was what the footage held-- it's so much more effective and exciting.

There are only a couple things that I can take issue with-- first, the way Spence chose to edit two tiny scenes jarred me a little and second there seemed to be a mix issue where the music felt muffled and then jumped up a level. I'm not technical enough to describe exactly what was wrong, but let me say that neither is enough to worry about. Download and watch this if you have any interest in a BETTER version of RETURN OF THE JEDI.

It's almost exactly the movie I wish I'd gotten when I waited in line all those years ago. This would have kept me buying toys and comic books. Very impressed. Very happy.

Merry Christmas to us all!

WOW!

Fantastic!  I will write a proper review tomorrow, but when I saw the credits I just had to come and post.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too, Spence! That was amazing!

The Saga now has a proper ending. Luke Skywalker now has a complete journey. Anakin Skywalker has a complete journey.

So the big words of the review will be STORY, TENSION, CHARACTER, and BEAUTY.

But it's 2:00am now and I want to go bask in the glow of this.

Thank you again, Spence. This was a long time coming.