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MTHaslett

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13-Apr-2005
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4-Sep-2024
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Post
#155699
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/155699/action/topic#155699
Time
Commander Courage:
"As for the end of the film, I see what you're saying MTH, but in keeping in true Star Wars tradition, the film must end with music and music alone."

***

Well that is the only thing I like about the end we got-- but I would direct you to the final shots of ESB where there is dialogue up to the point where the Millenium Falcon pulls away-- My suggestion is to emulate this and restrict whatever great line we can come up with (IF we can come up with it) to the front end of the marriage scene so that the music carries on quite a while before the credits. If we could nail the line, this would be an improvement-- but if we can't, then it's best to leave it alone I agree.

----

quote: Padme's stuff creates quite a problem indeed. The scene where she wakes up in the sand is pretty lame, but I don't think it would work if she just comes charging in with the clones at the end firing at Dooku's ship, would it?

***

True-- that would be awkward. I think the whole thing of her charging in and firing at Dooku is bad though-- Natalie Portman just doesn't know how to handle a blaster. My thought is she should be found by the clone and then not seen again until the wedding. The scene where she runs up and greets Anakin with his arm cut off doesn't feel right -- didn't she notice his arm is missing? It has a fake sense of just "wrapping things up." I think it would improve things to leave them a little jagged -- to be sorted out as the Jedi talk and the (surprise, surprise) we cut to the wedding.

I think, at least, this would play. Maybe Trooperman has already addressed this stuff?
Post
#155659
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/155659/action/topic#155659
Time
Infodroid

quote: "By needless I mean superfluous - beating us over the head with information we already know or simply stating the obvious."

***

I understand you now-- ESB had a lack of "pointless" dialogue, emphasis on "pointless."

Totally agree, and Episode II goes many steps in the opposite direction-- not only do they say EVERYTHING, but they say it poorly, and in a way that undermines any interesting characterization. I mean, it's easy to want to like a young woman who's tough and capable enough to lead her people into war-- but when she talks like Padme does here, none of that matters. She's made uninteresting by what "the way she talks" says about who she is.

But I'd have to be shown what making them lovers from the start does to help things. You'd get to avoid all the "confessions" of love, more or less. That's a start in the right direction.

I guess I'm drawn more to the opportunity of trying to whittle down the dialogue until the scenes are full of subtext. The boy-meets-girl story here is one of the major dramatic forces of the movie. Shifting it so their romance has been going on longer may punch up the ending, but the middle will suffer a lot.

I see clearly how you get the concepts that foster good dialogue-- I'll have to think more about what you're proposing. Maybe I'm just not seeing the real benefits that are actually there.

-----

I'm glad you see something in my ideas for Dukoo.

You bring up a good point about cutting out all the Padme stuff from the duel. The problem, as I see it, is that while it's nice to see her again before the wedding-- everything we see is so bad.

Here's my solution: As Dukoo gets away and Yoda picks up his stick, looking pretty down in the mouth-- the music hits a somber key and we cut to the shot of Padme lying lifeless in the sand until a clone runs up to her and she stirs to life... Cut to Anakin lying in a heap and continue from there. Postpone their reunion until we hear that Anakin's taking her back to Naboo and then cut to the wedding.

With Trooperman's ability to add Anakin dialogue, I think that the one place it might be nice to add some is at the wedding. If Anakin said a great line of dialogue that was charming and at the same time indicated his change and resolution to dedicate himself to the Republic and everything Padme stands for -- it would bring a resolution to the film that is really lacking. The original cut really just kind of ends.
Post
#155546
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/155546/action/topic#155546
Time
TM: I too am still thinking about how to solve the problem of the motivation for Anakin's run at Dooku.

***

I have an idea.

The question: Why does Anakin run at Dooku? The potential answer: He doesn't.

After watching the duel over an over thinking about it, I see these as the basic beats:

Anakin and Kenobi run in and skirt the edge of Dukoo's lair, Dukoo bristles -- ready to fight.

Kenobi says "we go together"; Anakin says "I take him now!" Anakin runs in and gets blasted into the wall.

Dukoo threatens Kenobi with force lightening -- fails. He draws his sabre and they duel/chat/duel/chat/duel -- we cut away to Padme, then back for more -- duel/chat until Dukoo swipes Kenobi's arm, leg and prepares to kill him...

Suddenly Anakin's there again, blocking Dukoo's sabre. Kenobi tosses him his own sabre and Anakin uses 2 swords to fight Dukoo's 1.

Dukoo cuts one sword down. Anakin and Dukoo fight in close-up; close-up; close-up

Dukoo slices off Anakin's arm and force-pushes him back, landing on Kenobi.

That sucked.

What I don't like is the pointless rush-in-and-die move by Anakin; the big cut-away scene to Padme; and the big pauses in the Kenobi/Dukoo fight.

I just don't like the way this fight plays out very much. Without being able to reshoot the entire thing, what can be done to make what's there a lot more exciting? --My answer? CUT OUT THE PAUSES. Get rid of the Padme cutaway; the big pauses; the Anakin rush-in.

Here's what I might mean:

Anakin and Kenobi rush in and skirt Dukoo's space warily. Kenobi says "We'll take him together" and Anakin never says a damned thing.

Dukoo draws his sword and Kenobi rushes him. Kenobi and Dukoo fight in close up after close up. No pauses. No dialogue. Just all the fighting cut together. No cut away to Padme. Just fighting. Cut to Anakin in close up, standing. The context implies he can't find a way to get into the fight. Then-- Dukoo wounds Kenobi and down he goes. Without hesitation, Dukoo goes for the kill--

And Anakin jumps in. Kenobi tosses him the other sabre and the fight continues. No halting, no pausing (except to see Yoda coming) until Dukoo cuts off Anakin's arm-- (GREAT IDEA UPTHREAD TO MAKE THIS BEAT TERRIFYING WITH A HOWLING SCREAM SIMILAR TO WHEN LUKE LOSES HIS HAND).

Anakin gets tossed over to Kenobi and Dukoo finally pauses to catch his breath.

That's the idea in a nutshell -- let the relentlessness of Dukoo's attack make this fight special -- this would be the most relentless fight of the trilogy. Dukoo would become the guy who just doesn't f**k around.

The Anakin story up to this point is that of an apprentice who feels challenged, then loses faith, then finds faith again and goes into battle with his mentor -- In watching Dukoo and Kenobi fight, Anakin is building up his courage to jump in and play with the big Jedi -- something he hasn't had to do before. But when it counts-- he comes through.

The Padme material should, in my opinion, ALL be cut. She doesn't need to be seen here. Let the sequence end as Yoda gets his stick back and sees his crumpled allies and realizes they're in serious trouble. He sighs and we wipe out before Padme and the clones run in.
Post
#155541
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/155541/action/topic#155541
Time
Infodroid--

Radical idea -- as you promised it would be.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but that would not work emotionally for me. There are a number of reasons, but one might start with the premise you suggest that Han/Leia's romance worked fine "without needless dialogue."

quote: "The fact is, Han and Leia never talked that much. They didn't need to. It was all in the subtext. "I love you." "I know." And so did we without a bunch of needless dialogue."

That's simply not true -- Han and Leia have tons of dialogue in ESB and all of it, every single "I'd sooner kiss a wookie!" is building the romance. They even have all that terrific ANH dialogue to build upon. Their romance works in part because they are such unlikely lovers -- they seem so at odds and argue so much. But when a little tenderness creeps in, we feel how natural their love could be; how complementary they could be.

The problem in Episode II at the concept level isn't really that big -- the romance of Anakin and Padme is dramatic and full of trouble because of their different backgrounds and vows of chastity. They are forbidden to love and know it will cause only trouble. They swear to supress their feelings. Yet circumstance and desire pulls them together against their better judgment and they choose to marry in secret.

That's not bad. Not great, but not bad. It could use another wrinkle -- a personality conflict of greater weight and a better drama to pull them together -- but the skeleton there is okay.

The problem is that these elements are told so f**king poorly!

I think your suggestion would be interesting to see, but I can tell I would like it less. It's not taking best advantage of the footage we have if they were already secretly lovers instead of just now becoming lovers -- not in my opinion.

Making them lovers already gives them less, not more drama. If they're already lovers, what happens in this story to threaten that? Not much aside from a momentary attack of reason when Padme says this just can't be, she won't give in. If they're already lovers, that beat won't even make sense.

I am optimistic the changes Trooperman plans will make this the romance of a worthy and humble Jedi apprentice who loves a queen from afar, gets paired with her as a guard, and wins her love. Trimming the dialogue/massaging the action and letting us into Anakin's head via his dreams of Shmi are all going to make this the story it was always trying to be.
Post
#155367
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/155367/action/topic#155367
Time
Infodroid--
Good points. Episode II seems to have the material it needs to be transformed robotic to emotional -- it was clearly meant to be an emotional story. Dialogue, editing, performance, music-- a whole list of things undermine what was a pretty good idea.

I think the story was supposed to be: Anakin grows in power, but emotionally feels drawn back to his mother-- in fact he feels her suffering. But as a Jedi, he's restrained from acting on these feelings and it eats him up worse than any Jedi before because he KNOWS he's right. He gets thrown together with the girl of his dreams and she tips the scales-- he faces too much temptation to remain a chaste Jedi. He reaches out to her and then dashes off to get his mom. But because he is too late, his mother dies in his arms and his Jedi faith is shattered. He resents his master for making mom die-- then he finds out his master is in trouble. He doesn't even want to go save the guy -- but the girl makes him. They end up in a deadly trap, but it's the right thing to do. Then he loses the girl and wants to throw it all away for her-- until he remembers that she wouldn't do that or want that. He stays the course...

But then comes the one beat that I don't understand yet and that needs to be brought into the fold.

Why does he rush in to attack Dukoo? It doesn't come from anything we've seen (except a general lack of discipline). It nearly costs him everything and it throws the whole story off.

Does he still rush in? I don't think so-- but even so this part of the story lacks weight when it comes to Anakin. What is he demonstrating/learning/or being challenged by here? Any ideas?

I think there's something important about solving this. Making the climax feel important to the Anakin story would be incredible. Right now, the story for him kind of ends when he decides to leave Padme and face his duty.
Post
#154750
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154750/action/topic#154750
Time
When you say the artoo stuff doesn't do much for you, have you gone back to actually see what the changes might do? I admit they didn't seem interesting to me at first. The droids were annoying in the PT more often than not. But they were delightful in the OT. What was the difference?

I think it was the care given to their little bits and after seeing all these missed opportunities I think it would be a major step in line with Trooperman's intention to get more "OT" if the droid stuff could be brought up to snuff.

C3P0 is harder to deal with because his dialogue was witty in the OT and clumsy in the PT and that's hard to improve with editing. Artoo, on the other hand, has no dialogue. He has stuff that is almost charming, like getting told he can't pick up food at the counter -- but it's tossed off in a "been there done that" way compared to similar beats in the OT. That's why they don't carry the day.

The thing to achieve is giving Artoo a stronger sense of p.o.v. ANH tells a story from beginning to end from their p.o.v. and the OT maintains that sub-story pretty well. But TPM never did any good droid p.o.v. beats with the possible exception of Artoo's first meeting with Threepio.

SOTD has at least these two opportunities to build scenes around Artoo's p.o.v. Given the contrast between that opportunity, or sticking with the stilted character stuff that's there already, I can't help seeing this as more than a "meh" kind of issue.

--and come on, how great would it be to start the movie from Artoo's p.o.v.? That scene on the landing deck is powerful image-wise, but totally balls with Padme's "oh my gosh, I'm so unable to move because I'm so shocked" routine that requires a totally stiff Typho to goose her into action. Remove Typho, let Padme be a self-starter, and start it all by locking us into Artoo's p.o.v -- that's what a Prequel opening scene is supposed to be!
Post
#154718
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154718/action/topic#154718
Time
Alright -- a triple post, sue me.

Continuing to watch the movie, the scene on the refugee ship with R2, Padme and Anakin always bothered me, but I didn't have an idea of how to fix it-- until now.

With the realization that R2 is charming, but under utilized I see his staging is one of the major differences between the OT and the PT. Beats such as this one where the cook-droid tells R2 that no droids are allowed would be a fun little bit in the OT, but in the PT it's tossed off so poorly that it feels cliche.

What it's missing are the shots that would make it work-- the close ups that would turn it into a little embarrassing episode for R2.

Second problem with the scene is the Padme/Anakin dynamic is all off balance because Hayden is into full Mack-Daddy mode in his line readings and the script pushes him to go there-- every line is another come on to Padme. That's bad for the romance -- we should feel the love blooming before he hits us over the head with it. Why does he feel so entitled to her love? He should feel, as he says later, much too intimidated to put all these moves on a Senator.

So with a few changes, I see a much better, more OT scene available to us:

There's a wipe to the EXT. Spaceship shot -- then CUT inside to a C.U. (find this somewhere) of R2 reaching out with his arm to grab something... "Hey!" CUT TO the wide shot: he's been caught grabbing stuff off the counter. "No droids allowed!" Back to R2's C.U. for a moment as he responds with an insulted chirp, then back to the wide shot as he takes his stolen goods and wheels off to Anakin. R2 delivers the food and Padme thanks him -- let R2 give a more spirited "You're welcome, but what a jerk that guy was" kind of response and then he exits.

Padme tells Anakin she thinks it must be hard for him to be a Jedi. "Yes, I can't be with the people I love." In the original cut, this is a come-on to Padme. In our cut we should do our best to make it a line purely and solely about his mother. How? Cut all the mack-daddy stuff from the rest of this scene.

Padme: Are you allowed to love? I thought it was forbidden for a Jedi to love.

[Here, the original cut goes to Hayden's reaction which is a kind of smirk that says "well, maybe, but I still really want to love you" before he says his next line. I think it's vital to cut this smirk and let his next line start from the more humble facial expression that he exhibits as he looks down before actually speaking. This shortens the pause and humbles the character -- changing the subtext from a sexual come-on to a more halting, personal reveal]

Anakin: Attachments are forbidden. Posession is forbidden. But compassion, which I would define as unconditional love is central to a Jedi's life. YOu might say that a Jedi is encouraged to love.

[Cut Padme's response and Anakin's next lines -- go straight to the look Padme gives at the end of their exchange which says "Wow, I'm really starting to see this guy differently." Then she looks down and we cut away realizing they're really getting to know each other.]

The unconditional love attitude is sexy and charming. The slimy smirking mack-daddy shit is repulsive. When he gives her less, she wants more and we want her to want him more. Every time he tries to push stuff on her "You're growing more beautiful" "Why can't I look at you this way?" "I dream about you all the time" he comes off like an ass. But when he is simply mature and admiring her from a distance, giving only subconscious hints of his love for her, then he's attractive.

I think these changes will really smooth out the romance and increase the OT feel by raising the charm quotient. Less is more for Anakin and more is more for R2.

Thanks for reading.




Post
#154632
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154632/action/topic#154632
Time
Sorry for the double post --

I've been watching the magfan cut wiht the sound off and see how much there is to trim pace wise from the speeder chase and the long ass walk around the cantina. Even the speeder crash/Anakin landing and running needs major work to really come off. It should go WHAM! speeder crashes; SMASH Anakin lands. Zam gets out and runs. Anakin is already up and running after her... Not easy to pull off with the footage there, but dammit if that isn't how it was supposed to happen. Anakin needs to come off as capable and confident.

Which brings me to my point: I've always loathed the Padme bedroom scene where she whines about not wanting to leave and he whines about Obi Wan not recognizing how awesome he is. But now I am thinking twice -- if it can be cut down it will be good. My recommendation is to keep the hand-off of power to Jar Jar; then have Anakin assure her this will be quick since Obi Wan's on the case, have her say "I haven't worked for a year to dash off into hiding" and then he says "Sometimes we have to sacrifice" so she's shocked and says "Hey, you've grown up." She looks at him and WIPE!---

Out. That's nice. He impressed her and that's good. It's romantic, it's growth and it moves the story.

Please don't let the scene go any further than that, though, please. It undercuts the "getting to know you" beats that occur on the trip. If he's already leering at her and she's already complaining, then it's just repetitive to do it again later. Get them on that transport and move the story along.

Thanks for listening. Done for now.
Post
#154628
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154628/action/topic#154628
Time
Flip it, baby.

That change is powerful-- and looking again at this opening sequence as originally done, your changes to the dialogue make two things happen -- first off, I realize how much you're improving it; second, I realize how much crap work I was overlooking before.

Now I can't approve of anything as done in the original opening-- I have a whole new angle to pitch you about the space ship landing.

To my eye, the footage is beautiful, but the writing and the performances are bad. Solution -- re-cut.

The only performance I'm charmed by on the landing dock is R2.

My idea is reshape the entire sequence as if it were from R2's p.o.v. This may require a cut in shot from another sequence, but I think it can be handled just with sound effects.

The benefit is to avoid almost every line of dialogue from this sequence and let the powerful images tell the story. Nothing is said that wasn't either covered in the opening crawl or obvious from the action.

So it would go something like this: THe big ship lands. Cut to a naboo fighter as a pilot climbs out. HEAR R2 as he is lowered out and we get his C.U. He rolls out of the shot and we CUT to the landing bridge of the Queen's ship -- but we KEEP HEARING R2's chirpy reactions. We do NOT hear the security bozo say "Duh, I sure hope my dialogue helps make you surprised when the ship explodes..." -- instead, we watch the queen march down the plank and cut back to R2 as he sees the queen coming and whistles a kind of greeting. Make it seem R2 really believes it's Padme. Then back to the gang-plank as BOOM! Padme gets blown to bits we hear R2 Scream (like in the Death Star trenches). Give us a C.U. of R2 with flames reflecting off him if you can before cutting to the wides shot of the other R2 unit getting thrown.

Then as the real Padme gets up and runs, give us more R2 noises as he rolls forward-- then reveal Padme's identity as she leans over the dying Korday. "Korday" she says. "My lady..." says Korday. Padme shakes her head (no more dialogue from Korday). "No..." says Padme. The music SWELLS. Cut the rest of Security bozo's lines, he sucks. Cut to the last part of the shot where he stands after urging her to hurry and R2 rolls into view -- give us another R2 cue-- he's urging her to go. She stands with Security bozo behind her looking around, cut back to the dying Korday instead of giving Padme anymore lines. Then Padme realizes it's time to go without being urged by Security bozo so the next shot is back to her close up with the bozo well behind her and then he leans/moves forward and we cut to the wide shot of them leaving together. Here we see R2 again and it would be nice to keep his presence audible as much as possible without overdoing it. Better music will sure help. It feels like, musically speaking, they played this scene for shock more than for emotion-- I think it should be more passionate musically. That will carry you into the story much more than all that dialogue did.

Hope you see what I mean. Hell, I hope you already did all this. At least I hope you consider it.

All the best. You rock.
Post
#154519
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154519/action/topic#154519
Time
Trooperman:
The thing is, once I leave the master shot, I don't want to come back to it; it doesn't seem right.

***

It was good enough for the opening scene of ANH as the rebels wait for that door to get cut open ;-)

The trick would be, if you wanted to figure it out, make the moving master build toward something-- i.e. allow it to be a thread that pulls several shots together for a pay-off once the master is over. If we start on a moving master, pushing in... then cut to a c.u. of Mace or Yoda... then back to the master, still pushing in (but NOT back to where we left off-- you have to allow the master to "continue" moving in the back of our minds, as if it were continuing even as we cut away) the master moves us closer to Palpatine... then cut to another c.u. of Mace... then back to the very end of the moving master before the PAY OFF-- a c.u. of Palpatine saying a crucial line ("My negotiations will NOT fail." or something). Then the editing carries on from there.

You make perfect sense in saying why you have to flip both the master and the c.u. There's the "180 line" that you cannot cross if you want to maintain a steady geography. If the camera suddenly cuts to an angle from the other side of the room it jolts the audience into confusion. We like scenes staged as if we were sitting on one side of all the action, like it's on a stage. When editors break this rule, sh*t happens.

It's shocking what you point out about the animated duel shots. That's why this is the Ranch. We don't let crap like that sneak by here at the Ranch -- only amatures make that kind of mistake. We can't afford to because we're making Star Wars!
Post
#153862
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153862/action/topic#153862
Time
Wow-- Commander Courage, you are a MAN! I have much less finished than you do-- but I'll be the "double-checker" of the list, I guess.

Nanner-- congratulations and thanks! Good work getting your "screen test" to Trooperman so diligently.

Is there another fan edit as ambitious as this one? I haven't been checking, I just can't imagine there is. The combination of great music/OT styling (please add a little "film look" aging)/voice dubbing/ and actual story changes here makes me look forward to this like it's the actual release of the film -- that "Attack of the Clones" was just a test screening before they went back for retooling.

This thread is "the Ranch" as far as I'm concerned.
Post
#153208
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153208/action/topic#153208
Time
Re: Lightsaber duel shots:

That new mix on the lightsabers is awfully good, Trooperman (okay, it's INCREDIBLE!). What an impact. I'm going to find out who you are, tie you to your computer and make you finish this NOW if you keep showing off such good work. ;-)

The animated duel shot in the original mix is so horrible-- I never noticed it before. I thought you must have cut that in from a video game. Weird.

The final shot of your version shows Yoda's shadow coming. In the b.g. is Dukoo's motorcycle. It looks fake-- do you think desaturating that shot could help?

Just wondering. Great great work.
Post
#153196
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153196/action/topic#153196
Time
RE: Conference Room

I see a couple solutions -- (first I have to say how awesome it is to see the shot flipped) -- but I don't know the whole picture yet of what changes are being made, so maybe these solutions will help and maybe they won't.

I don't like the idea of blurring Sam J's lips. I think we need to work in ways to cut around the problem and use only synch dialogue. So the problem comes from using that long beautiful master shot and making it match the dialogue.

Solution #1 is to have the line "He is a politcal idealist...not a murderer" play over the preceding Exterior shot. Then finish the line as we cut in but before any non-synch problems can be detected-- maybe a half a second or so.

Solution #2 is to move Sam Jackson's line "He was a jedi..." until after Palpatine's line. Let Palpatine's line be the response to the bearded guy and let it come when we cut inside, as Palpatine starts to talk.

I think that'll solve things. I even wish there were some silence between the lines-- silence that speaks volumes about the gulf between the jedi and Palpatine-- and about the graveness of this situation. But at any rate it looks great.

EDITED TO ADD: I know the logic may not seem crystal clear here, but I think non-linear dialogue often sounds more natural than A-B, A-B, A-B. So I'm suggesting that we do A-C-B-D. Like this:

EXT. Chancellor's office - Day
Beard guy (V.O.): He is a political idealist, not a murderer.

INT. Chancellor's office - Continuous
Palpatine: But more and more star systems are joining the seperatists.

Mace: You know Dukoo was once a jedi. He couldn't assassinate anyone.

Palpatine: ...I don't know how much longer I can...

Mace: If they do break away...

Palpatine: My negotiations will not fail...

Mace: If they do break away...

I'm not sure I understand the flow of this dialogue entirely. I think we get to the "My negotiations will not fail" line a little fast. Maybe Mace needs to finish his thought first and then have Palpatine's line. But then I don't know the footage or the whole scene yet.

I just know, using what's there, you can get through the master a little easier with my suggestion. I also think the master can be cut out of sooner if you have coverage of some of the lines, say a shot of Mace saying his line or any part of his line so you can cut out of and then back into the moving master.
Post
#152405
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152405/action/topic#152405
Time
Infordroid: I agree with Sluggo.

ADigitalMan did the same thing in his edit and I really liked the way it gave a much more unsettling tone to the scene, and also backed up Padme's reasons for not wanting to get too involved with him at first. But, ADM's scene was mostly whittled away and came out just a little short.


***

But the problem is these two characters have so very little to make their romance feel right. Every reason Padme has for not getting involved with Anakin is already there because he's becoming a Jedi. This scene is one of the worst offenders at presenting Padme with reasons she would NEVER touch this guy. He's a psycho and thinks a dictatorship would sure be neat.

The unsettling tone should be about Anakin's lack of trust in Obi Wan and not in his lack of trust in democracy. It's fine to have him ambivilent, but I this scene goes too far.
Post
#152231
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152231/action/topic#152231
Time
Nanner-
I am on deck to perform/record the Lama Su dialogue, but I was not auditioned. I stepped in when it seemed no one else wanted to. If you have the equipment and talent to get suitable quality recordings -- well maybe it's not too late to win the job.

I am happy to help Trooperman any way I can, but it will be more pleasant for me to hear someone else be Lama Su if you can take my place.

What do you say, Trooperman?

Post
#152043
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152043/action/topic#152043
Time
Love to hear the updates, Trooperman. There are so many moments that I'm looking forward to seeing (and hearing) that I expect to have chills up and down my spine the whole time I screen this baby for the first time.

Infodroid makes a great argument for the way the Yoda arrival should play out-- I know you're already on board. I would only add that the impact of Yoda's arrival depends on the danger we sense for the jedi. It has to feel truly over. I can admit that the first time I saw the movie, I had no idea Yoda was about to fly in. I didn't notice that the music wasn't carrying the day-- I just noticed I didn't really care about any of the jedi who were there to save Anakin.

If I cared, and I thought they were in danger, then the surprise of Yoda's arrival would have had real impact.
Post
#150615
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/150615/action/topic#150615
Time
I am here for Lama Su -- but I don't think I can even comprehend the idea of Lama Su = General Grievous.

TM -- are you among the anti-Grievous fans? I have to count myself as tickled to death by Grievous in Episode III. I found his final battle with Obi Wan to be one of the emotional highlights of a movie I thoroughly enjoyed.

...But what if his android body were built out of the damaged remains of Lama Su... I can't even make it work for a second.

But here's one that would twist the whole PT -- what if Grievous were Qui Gon?

Nah.

Why wasn't he Darth Maul?

I'll go away now.
Post
#146712
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/146712/action/topic#146712
Time
Trooperman:
Here is a rewrite that might work with the lip-flap of the balcony scene and contain the right subtext witout being obnoxious. Try this on for size.


PADME
we used to come here for school retreat. We used to swim
to that island every day. I love the water.

...We used to lie on the sand and
let the sun dry us... and try to
guess the names of the birds
singing.

ANAKIN
I don't know birds. I don't know anything about worlds where the creatures are pleasant-- and free. I like it here -- everything is soft and sooth.

re: making the city dirty -- I haven't seen Total Recall in a while, but I remember its dirty downtown being similar to the downtown we get in AOTC. Maybe a shot or two there will work -- given the appropriate "Trooperman" touch, of course.
Post
#146582
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/146582/action/topic#146582
Time
Thanks --

Then the suggestion has to be made: simply cut the Anakin dialogue and go straight from Padme's dialogue to the longing looks-- extend as long as necessary to fit in the voice over from the following scene by using shots that don't have lip-flap. The dialogue from Padme sets the mood well-- personally revealing in a harmless way, provoking no response from Anakin other than a look of desire. The kind of look you give on the night you're planning to confess your love...

Cut to him confessing his love...

Out.

That seems sound to me, but I haven't seen the footage in a while.