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MTHaslett

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13-Apr-2005
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4-Sep-2024
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Post
#163628
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Glad you like, Commander Courage and InfoDroid! I agree, if the button thing can work, it's more welcome in the opening than later-- and it sets up the droid ship better for later anyway.

As for the dialogue-- we can't just leave it up to any one person. It's too delicate an issue and shapes the story. We need to all agree what the Nemoidians say. Feel free to take a hack at it, but please don't go "final" without letting us comment. It shapes who Nute is, who the TF is, and how Sidious and Maul fit into the story.

It should probably be one of the last things we finalize if that's possible. We will probably find lots of opportunities to "cover" problems with Nemoidian dialogue that aren't apparent yet.

Again-- thanks for doing the hard work and for taking my input. This is a blast!

Edited: Didn't see CC's post until after I posted. Glad to meet your approval with this approach-- I like the suspenseful build up so much, I was afraid someone would have a good reason not to do it. :-(

But you like. Alri-i-ght.
Post
#163579
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
More script fragments...


Now we separate the men from the boys ;-) -- This next bit has the strategy of preserving the reveal of Nute for as long as possible and building up tension before we do. So the next shots have to be massaged into something they're not--

(CFSS) = Cropped Full Screen Shot

INT. CONTROL ROOM
(From the Jedi saying "the negotiations will be short.") CUT to just one (CFSS) close up of a hand hitting a console with droid icons (from the Gungan battle) -- the icon "stands"
Cut to:

INT. HALLWAY
Droids with weapons march toward camera (add Imperial March type music -- the hammer is coming down). The idea is that the Jedi are about to be assassinated by their hosts without us knowing who they are or why they want to kill these guys.

Use the two shots that currently follow the destruction of the Jedi's ship.

First shot: Marching droids. Then, just a couple beats of the Side angle wide shot: The droids reach the door and halt.

Third shot (grabbed from a few shots later): Closer front view of droids (continuity problem of yellow droid is there -- can we crop him out?) MUSIC HITTING CRESCENDO... then holding a suspenseful note that continues--

INT. WAITING ROOM
-- ...as the Door opens-- (suspense, suspense) -- and TC13 enters with drinks.
Jedi say lines; Qui Gonn takes the drink. MUSIC remains on the tense side, but still holding back--

INT. LANDING DOCK/QUI GONN'S SHIP
The MUSIC does a sly lurch as the gun descends in the hanger -- the crew panics -- the gun fires -- the ship EXPLODES and the music hits its full throttle action tempo--

INT. WAITING ROOM
The Jedi react to the explosion. The gas comes in. They hold their breath.

INT. HALLWAY
(Remembering that the droids are already at the door), cut to them opening the door and seeing the gas. Adjust their interaction per BOTF. TC13 comes out. The Jedi emerge.

Battle

Use all the battle footage in one stroke as the battle continues all the way to Obi Wan force pushing a group of droids away.

INT. CONTROL DECK
NOTE: ALL DIALOGUE IS TEMP
(Use footage from talking to TC13 scene) (CFSS) Over Nute's shoulder, favoring flunky, hiding Nute's face.
Flunky: "It has been a long time since you killed a Jedi. Let the droids handle it."
Nute: "You prevent me from killing them?"

CUT AWAY: the Jedi cut one more Droid down

BACK TO SCENE (next shot favoring Flunky off Nute's shoulder) (CFSS)
Flunky: "Your safety is vital-- The entire Trade Federation rests on your--"

CUT AWAY: the Jedi cut another Droid down

BACK TO SCENE
Nute: "Get out of my sight."
Flunky shrinks away -- using the "stunted slime" shot -- this is the first shot we get of Nute's profile. He turns toward camera (cut to CFSS on movement; add Nute Music Cue) -- cut away before Sidious image creeps in too much--
Nute: "Keeping me from my enemy endangers us all."

Cut to shot of communications flunky with the mask
Com Flunky: "We've lost their transmission sir."

Next shot: Nute spins from the screen (currently where he says "What's going on down there?").
Nute: "Lead the Jedi here. I will show you what a Nemoidian is capable of!"

Note Flunky #2 was in background of "stunted slime" shot. He now talks to Nute as they walk across the bridge toward the door together.
Flunky #2: "Please, your Lordship, reconsider. If the Jedi should get lucky and harm you, our Federation will be destroyed by the Republic. We have arranged so much to make this invasion legal. Now is not the time to jeopardize things for sport. [an order to the driods] Seal the bridge."
Nute: (Gesturing to the droids) "I will not forget this. You waste our time. The door is no match for Jedi."
Flunky #2: "Send for Destroyers. These Jedi will fall quickly."

The door closes on the bridge, sealing them in.

INT. HALLWAY
Obi Wan and Qui Gonn arrive outside the bridge. Q attacks the door.

INT. CONTROL DECK
(The shot where Nute says "That will hold them" as Flunky #2 stares at the door)
Flunky #2 (awed tone) "Close the blast door."
Nute (going crazy with desire to fight) "Let them in, the doors will not hold!"

Too late, the blast door shots-- stopping Q's blade.

INT. HALLWAY
Qui Gonn thinks, plunges into the door again-- Force theme (no changes here for me)

INT. CONTROL DECK
Door gets hot. Flunky #2 points "They are still coming through!"
Nute: "Why are you protecting me? I can smell them. Let them in!"

INT. HALLWAY
Qui Gonn continues --

INT. CONTROL DECK
Flunky #2 turns to ask "Where are those Destroyer Droids?" Nute gives him dirty look.

INT. HALLWAY
Destroyer Droids arrive. (still no changes for me)
The Jedi run.

INT. CONTROL DECK
Nute and Flunky #2 watch Jedi run. ("No match for Destroyer Droids")
Communications Guy says "Sir, a transmission from the planet"
Queen Amidala contacts them. Talk to Queen. Threaten her blatantly and brutally. End transmission.
Nute orders invasion to begin "we will conquer them now."

Cut to: Communications guy interrupts: The Jedi are in ventilation shaft.
Cut to: Shot of Nute where he whips around and says "Close the blast doors!"
Nute: "I want them! Bring them to me!"

----

The Nemoidians continue searching for the Jedi as the next shot is of Amidala's castle and we have the "communications interruption" which means only one thing: invasion. I'll be cutting Tanaka out of that as much as possible when I post it.

I don't know if this above strategy is going to fly with everyone, so I await your feedback.

More later...

By the way, InfoDroid-- The Amazon Full Screen discs are available used-- so no money would be going to LucasFilm in the purchase. Just to some online used disc dealer.
Post
#163498
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
tjdavis1138 -- WOW! That's generosity! That's speed! Welcome, welcome!

Incredible to see these ideas coming in. I would caution this thread against posting too many clips too quickly -- rough versions can get picked apart and good will can be lost if we rush. I seen it happen! 8-0


Originally posted by: tjdavis1138
Commander, I agree.

The droid shot in the middle of the scene really kills it. Would have been nice to see the entire landing. Oh well.

What if this: shorten the interruption -- just give us a glimpse of the droids; then back to the landing as it finishes -- then the rest of the droid shot, which is a reaction -- their bodies begin to move forward-- cut to the doorway --

just an idea to keep the landing more like one piece, and the droids as a final shot should be cued with tense music-- this is not a happy welcome committee


Here's a link to the **official** extremely rough first cut. I haven't played much with blending the music or anything yet.


Awesome. So much help to see the jedi inside the approaching ship. I might try cutting a little more on movement in one shot (trim a little off the front of the wide shot so she's already moving) and getting out of the Qui Gonn shot before the co-pilot moves so he matches the next shot. Did you try a bit of the next shot, the med shot of just the captain moving toward the controls? I always thought it would help this little sequence feel more complete -- with a sound f/x of her clicking a button.

Can we cut "Captain" from Q's line? Makes it faster and more commanding. (Ahh! Stopping. Sorry.)

You said it was rough-- I probably shouldn't comment. Great work! I wish I had more script right now.
Post
#163409
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
Originally posted by: MTHaslettBy the way-- I have only found Full Screen Episode I dvd's for $13.00 + shipping at Amazon. Does anyone have a set to donate? (Did they full screen the deleted footage too? Could be useful).


I'd be willing to trade for something of mine, pay for shipping, whatever's necessary. Let me know.


Well-- I don't have one or I'd just give it to you. If we can't figure anything else out, I'll just order it from Amazon for you.
Post
#163408
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: tjdavis1138
Just threw together a rough edit of what MTHaslett posted. Getting a closer shot of Qui-Gon when he pulls his hood down will be hard to do seamlessly. That is all one shot and when I tried to split the video up to crop the frame it was jumpy. Reminded me of camcorder footage. I can crop the entire sequence. I'll see how that looks.

and the full screen version of the dvd would be very helpful about now.

I'll try to get a clip up tomorrow. Depends on how busy I am at work.


Work? Man-- I'll be unavailable for awhile too. InfoDroid works nights? I don't even want to think about it.

But that sounds awesome!

Yeah-- the full screen version is the place to get these shots-- that's what Trooperman's doing and he's pretty happy.

The question will be whether they full-screened Qui Gon in a way that helps us or if the black bands will end up cutting off his eyes or something.

Post
#163407
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: twister111
*reads the idea for the script*
()_()
That's almost the way that I wanted to start my edit. Though, I never thought of the slowing down the ship landing part and, I never thought of reversing the shots. Pretty good thinking there. *thumbs up icon* this edit is getting off to a good start. I offer my help in this edit but, right now I don't have any editing software. So, I might be able to paint out Siddious in that hologram shot if you want it(the one where he's in the chair and, I read that you guys want him to tune in). I'm not guaranteeing anything but, I can try to paint him out of the frame. That is if your still using that scene.




Wow-- nice offer! Let us figure out what we're doing first-- the current Maul/Grievous reports to Nute idea is under construction. I think a painted out shot might bring it all the way home, though. Thanks!
Post
#163391
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Erikstormtrooper--

Great!

Good options. I'd be for being able to see the whole script "so far" at once, so it's easy to see how each chunk fits into the whole just by scrolling. Is that option #2?

It's great to have your support! I'll have more soon--

--

Great news, InfoDroid. Maybe we'll be able to move a little faster. This is a GIGANTIC project.

By the way-- I have only found Full Screen Episode I dvd's for $13.00 + shipping at Amazon. Does anyone have a set to donate? (Did they full screen the deleted footage too? Could be useful).
Post
#163381
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Erikstormtrooper--

Great idea, but let's get it all "approved" by mr. InfoDroid first. But then (if you are seriously volunteering ? !! ) the archive of each piece into a file would be a lot of help! :-)

How would it work?

--

Oops. It got "approved" while I was posting this.

Yay -- Star Wars!

Go on the the crawl, InfoDroid. You are right about how important it is. I also have to request that we figure out how to get the crawl perfect. I didn't like MagFan's as much as AdMan's-- AdMan's edit of Episode II has a crawl so perfect, I'd swear it was the original.
Post
#163370
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Here's the first bit of script. Just a few minutes-- but it's enough to cause InfoDroid some trouble ;-)

We need to get InfoDroid the full screen version asap. I can only turn to ebay-- we need an official release for the best quality. Any other ideas for how to get it to him?

---

Episode I Script
First Snippet

Ext. Space
After Crawl, use entire shot of ship approaching and heading toward TF ships.

Int. Qui Gonn's ship
Reverse the first two interior shots-- start favoring Qui Gonn,
Q: "Captain, tell them we wish to board at...
Cut to wide shot of all passengers
Q: "once..."
Captain: "Yes Sir."
Cut to Med. Shot of Captain as she leans toward controls-- cut away before she talks--

Ext. Space
Use whole shot of ship descending toward TF Starship. Bring up Sound F/X. No dialogue.

Int. Landing dock
Use frame-rate to slow down the landing and add more majestic music for truly awesome Star Wars landing (like Millenium Falcon landing on Death Star)

Int. Hallway
TC13 greets the Jedi.

Int. Waiting Room
TC 13 leads Jedi into the waiting room and leaves.
The Jedi flip back their hoods--
(Change if possible: using the Full Screen edition, can we crop the same shot and create a close up of Qui Gonn as he flips back his hood? It would be great-- even if we can just use the Full Screen footage to create a closer shot of both of them as they reveal themselves. The current shot favors Obi Wan -- since he's the one OT character we're meeting. That's not appropriate for this edit if we can get around it).

Can we improve the musical sting of their reveal? Harps isn't much of a cue.

Then back to the master shot as they walk across and say their lines at the window.

(But again, depending on what's possible with the Full Screen version -- close ups of Qui Gonn's bored expression here would help reinforce his malaise about this assignment.)


More later...
Post
#163362
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: THX
The problem with that is that everyone thinks of Episode IV: A New Hope as Star Wars (or vice versa).


I wish that were true, but I have to argue with people all the time who think the damn thing was released as Episode IV because "Lucas had it all planned out."

It's always referred to as ANH or Episode IV -- never just "Star Wars" anymore. Try to get away with calling it "Star Wars" in a conversation with other fans you don't know-- they'll get confused and laugh at you (tho I would NEVER laugh at you ;-)).

I'm not saying this idea will please everyone-- but if it pleases Trooperman (and heck, if I get a vote on it for my own sake) I love the idea.
Post
#163325
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Well it can't look cut and paste. I don't know why we can't try. The dialogue can be arranged so that the "official" hologram is actually replying by standing there stoically-- it can be made to feel organic. That is, of course, the final test.

My point is if we want more than just a longshot or the stoic close-up of Grievous, it will look cut and paste as the close-up of a darkened Sidious hologram will not match up with the official shot of Grievous.


Right, we can't use any darkened Sidious close-ups-- that's for sure.

There is a medium close profile of Sidious against a black background that's all hood-- and ripe for the taking. Any over the shouler/profile of Sidious that doesn't show his face will match with the close up of Maul-- as long as the backgrounds can be made to work.

The whole scene would be a lot easier if we could stage it on the droid ship, I wonder if that can be made to work.

At any rate-- the scene will be short enough that a long shot and a close up and an over the shoulder are all we'll need. We do have those.

The title will come. Good idea to start the crawl. I'll start editing the script for the opening to give us something to work from.



EDITED TO ADD:

I have had a reverse change of heart about the title -- and I have two points to make about it.

I am back to voting for just "Star Wars" and no sub-title. This works fine with the other "episodes" -- this is STAR WARS, and the next one is STAR WARS Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side. In fact, I like that immensely as an "homage" to the original release as well as the idea that this "episode" is supposed to be able to stand alone as the first of the saga.

And secondly, it's what Trooperman wanted -- and I want this to be the Trooperman version (once he surfaces again).

InfoDroid-- can you live with this? I know CC was on this side with me for a minute there. I believe this is a way to really set this edit apart and go all "OT" on people right from the start. Imagine: the original Fox logo; the original "Long time ago..."; then STAR WARS followed only by the text of the crawl-- It'll really make this the FIRST movie.

Anyway. Script coming...
Post
#163256
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: tjdavis1138
And lastly, the end of the cut scenes documentary on the TPM bonus disc has extra footage of the space battle and more Darth Maul fight footage. Are you planning on using that?


That footage is great, but a soundtrack would have to be created for it, since somebody is talking while they are showing the clips. You can hear it though, so someone would at least have something to go on.


I looked at this footage and it is great-- but the quality is lacking :-(

I'm all for using it though. The potential of building a great space battle goes up exponentially by putting all the other fronts into utter and complete failure. ONLY Anakin's battle can succeed. Only the space battle matters (tho we would like to kill Maul too).

Thus, we need to log in all the space footage and construct a clear path through it that takes best advantage of it all. I think this will ultimately be one of the great parts of our edit.
Post
#163255
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Yes, .... the fish, we think it's going to get them, they never see it, it closes in, but at the last second it's caught by another fish. If you want to give the sequence a proper ending you can have Jar-Jar's bug-eyed reaction and Qui-Gon turning from seeing the event say his Big Fish line. I just feel it needs better closure than the bongo just "heading for that outcropping" and that exchange might provide it.

Exactly. Someone suggested a force moment-- makes sense to me.

I didn't catch your removal of the report to the Queen scene. Good call and we can rework the R2 scene with the magic of subtitles. Honestly I've totally forgotten how that scene plays. I haven't watched the original Episodes I and II in over a year (chossing instead the MagnolisFan versions). I should probably do that to get a complete feel of what we have to work with.

Please do-- You'll see a lot more opportunities like this one. MagFan was brutal in his own way. I think the opening 10 seconds of ours are going to benefit greatly by using stuff he cut in a different way. This scene too is an opportunity-- a better way to intro Padme than the "bitch, go clean this droid" debriefing.

Funny; I thought you of all people would be against it as it is one of those jokes referring to the next film. But I'd be up for it if you are if you don't think it's too blatant a reference.

I think it's a great reference-- actually playing better now as the Episode IV performance will be a full orchestration of that tune Watto was humming.

Anakin's Dream: I think a combination of tone poems and quick flashes of obscured visuals would work, taking advantage of the "waking up" scene. The one thing I don't particularly like about Trooperman's nightmare sequence is that it's overlayed with Anakin in bed. He says it works best that way though, so there it is. Also, as I understand it the Episode III dreams are going to be reworked as well (just FYI). The best way to address this would be to put it aside, and after we put the majority of the film together see if it is better served by a dream or not.

Again, I hold off judgment until we become clear what the dream is trying to accomplish. I like getting into Anakin's head on the one hand, but have big concerns that it will undo the focus on Qui Gonn that we need to maintain. A similar problem occurs in the movie Philadelphia-- the movie's clearly from one character's p.o.v. until we get a dream from another person and it undermines the emotional core. I think the best solution will come from stating a specific hard-target for what the dream is achieving. What purpose does it serve?

Qui-Gon on Tatooine: Good points. I'm all for them is they can be smoothly edited. That's my greatest concern; we don't want things to seem cut and paste. I do wonder though if Qui-Gon betting for Anakin's freedom will be properly conveyed in just the last scene between him and Watto.


It won't be crystal clear what's up until Qui Gonn announces Anakin's freedom in Anakin's house. That's fine because the scene will play at first to be all about Qui Gonn collecting ship parts. Then he mentions the boy and Watto argues. Qui Gonn wins and we wonder what that's about (although we sense Qui Gonn always gets what he wants and he clearly wants the boy)... Then he announces the truth Anakin's house. We can smooth this out.

I'm sure you agree that "You're a Jedi too?" should be cut.


Totally.

I totally understand your desire to use the "official" Maul hologram, but think of the opportunities that would open up for dialogue if we consistently use Sidious' hologram and black-out the hood (giving him the appearance of Death). Throw in the official hologram and it ends up looking cut and paste.


Well it can't look cut and paste. I don't know why we can't try. The dialogue can be arranged so that the "official" hologram is actually replying by standing there stoically-- it can be made to feel organic. That is, of course, the final test.

Coruscant: I guess I'm just a fan of A-B-A-B-A storytelling. But sure, let's try it your way and see what we get.


Seems the wisest way to go is to look at the different options. We all want the best flow. I just went ahead and convinced myself that I can see it already. InfoDroid will show us.

Qui-Gon's funeral: Excellent points. If we want a Qui-Gon line or two in Anakin's head, the Batman Begins dialogue would be perfect as there is a fire in the background already. Though I think it would interrupt the musically-driven feel and take away from the final tone poem as Anakin flies back to Naboo (which I really hope we can pull off).


I've been thinking about that poem and I think it will work best as the summation audio over the whole "look how it's all come out" montage that shows us how each battlefront ends as well as how Anakin is processing with Qui Gonn's help. It can really bring the whole ending home, I believe.


I wish I had more time to respond to other posters. Later, I guess, but I'm grateful for all the kind words. Especially from our leader, InfoDroid.

As to the title, I like "The Chosen One" okay, although Episode I/Chosen One has a funny feel.

"Fate of the Jedi" ("of the" issues aside) is meant to capture BOTH Qui Gonn AND the entire Jedi Council because the fate of both are decided in this movie. Finding the Chosen One determines that there will be a Saga. It is Qui Gonn's fate to find the Chosen One and die convincing the council that he's right. It's the council's fate to resist the Chosen One and thus start their own downfall. It's Anakin's fate to become a Jedi. It's a decent title, capturing the spirit of the story. "The Chosen One" has the same kind of multi-p.o.v. meaning to it. It's capturing that central issue of waking up the Jedi council that should be reflected in the title--

I think "The Phantom Menace" is a title that refers completely to the Sith, and thus to the sequels more than to this particular story. There is a phantom menace in this story, but no one faces it or even becomes clearly aware of it except to wonder "did we see the master or the apprentice?"

Egyptian God Nemoidians indeed sound promising. THe only thing to make sure is that such a character would go into cahoots with a Sith Lord, since Maul/Grievous is the concrete proof that Gunray entered a deal with Sidious and is actually doing his bidding as part of a power-grab. The question to answer is what does the Egyptian God-head get from Sidious and what is he doing for Sidious?

Removing Sidious' appearances does not remove the responsibility of being absolutely clear in our minds that he is the Ultimate Architect of these battles. In fact, Sidious achieves ALL his aims. He only wants the vote of no confidence. He couldn't care less about the Naboo et al. He's headed for the Emperor's chair no matter what happens on Naboo.

MOre later, fellow Ranch hands!
Post
#163119
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: DaystromX


Sidenote: The order of the Coruscant sequence should stay as-is. Having ALL the Senate stuff then ALL the Jedi stuff is too much of the same thing continuously. Let them break each other up.

I agree. The lighting in the various scenes makes it difficult to envision the scenes together. We'd have to go through a full day with Padme, then go back, and watch the same day again from Qui-Gon's point of view (or the other way around). That just doesn't feel right.

...and it's not accurate. The Senate meeting exterior shot is the same time of day as the first Jedi council shot, so there's no discrepency to worry about that way.


Plus, cutting straight from Qui-Gon in front of the Council to either Qui-Gon talking with Obi-Wan or Anakin in front of the council seems weird.


A hard cut, I agree with you. But a wipe makes it feel natural-- what feels weird is to basically tweak all our Main Character's nerves and then jump over to some other part of the story that could have been wrapped up already. These two groups of scenes are related in space only. They have no thematic connection and thus no benefit from being rubbed onto each other. They just slow each other down.

And, I think by dividing Coruscant into a Padme segment and a Qui-Gon segment actually reduces the emphasis on Qui-Gon. If we follow the order I listed below, I think we keep more focus on Qui-Gon throughout.

We're cutting the scene where Anakin looks for Padme, which leaves us with nine scenes. We can't mess with the order to much, because of the light (one of my favorite parts of the movie, actually). But if we can find a shot of the Senate Building during sunset, then we can put them in this order:
Landing
Qui-Gon telling the Council about Darth Maul
Palpatine talking with Amidala
Anakin's test
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan talking
The Senate scene
The Council deciding not to train Anakin
Amidala deciding to go back
Leaving


I am totally open to discussing this, especially since you point out the emphasis has to be on Qui Gonn. I love the arranging of Qui Gonn and Obi Wan talking BEFORE the test! But what does the rest of this order of events do to keep that emphasis? It interrupts Qui Gonn's story twice instead of never with the very involved story that Amidala's wrapped up in.

My take is that Amidala's story is so involving that it needs to be handled to a decent conclusion before getting into Qui Gonn's head. This happens by putting them in this order:

Landing
Palpatine talking with Amidala
The Senate scene
Qui-Gon telling the Council about Darth Maul
Anakin's test
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan talking
The Council deciding not to train Anakin
Amidala deciding to go back
Leaving

This order really energizes the Senate scene in a surprising way. It really is its own little sub story that ends when Amidala goes ahead and votes "no confidence."

With that out of the way, the Jedi stuff can totally breathe-- which is great because it's the heart (as opposed to the head) of this picture. This way, Anakin's test is energized, the talk on the balcony sets Qui Gonn up for a big fall and he gets it right away (after a few excellent shots of the sun setting)

I don't know-- I understand the attraction to intercutting, but I wonder what it really accomplishes better than letting the two sequences play out. I only see things get deminished.
Post
#163118
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX
Sorry about this, but at the risk of continuing the flogging of this poor dead horse (and I promise just one more woopah of the whip and I'm done).

...Now he has a choice, tell Luke his father was a good man and a hero like the galaxy remembers (probably it is throught that Anakin was kill in the purge along with all the other Jedi). Or tell hims his dad is the second most evil man in the universe.
...Perhaps it is even common practice among the Jedi to consider somebody dead when they have turned to the dark side. It could be rather than old Ben lying through his teeth, that he couldn't bear the though of letting Luke know the truth. He probably also never imagined Vader would try to convert Luke and turn him rather than just try to kill him.

Okay, the horse his dead, the whip is broken, and the horse is buried as far as I am concerned, I will not clutter the board with any more of my comments.


First-- don't go away-- stay and comment on Episode I ;-)

But this issue is already laid to bed and YOU WIN! The lie will be there in the end-- I just can't see any of your justifications as anything but... justifications. I would point out that the two choices you give Obi Wan are hardly fair because he can choose both and tell the truth at the same time; "Your father was an honorable and brilliant Jedi, a man who saved my life dozens of times and loved the republic more than life. But he fell under the sway of a horrible greedy creature who seduced your father down a path he did not realize led to destruction until it was too late. Everything good about your father died and what was left was transformed into an agent of fear called Darth Vader." etc.

But instead we're left arguing and making up stuff to justify a lie that wasn't a lie when it was written and which serves some convenient purposes, but undermines the honorable character of Obi Wan. I will agitate for a little justification in ROTS to clear this all up because the movies play out a lot of things to support the notion that telling Luke might endanger him of being discovered by the Sith-- because Jedi can sense emotional distress from across the galaxy during their meditations. This is seen in Episodes II, III, V and VI in various forms. But it isn't ever expressed as the reason they didn't tell Luke the truth. So it's odd, like they played by a rule they never wrote. And they did it in retrospect, by accident, after changing Obi Wan into a mealy mouthed liar. ;-)
Post
#163117
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Well, there you go again CC-- without Trooperman here we're going to have to come to terms on these issues ourselves. At least there is much we agree upon.

Originally posted by: Commander Courage

-We hear Jar Jar's back story, but no giant fish grabs them
I think one fish (as in MagnoliaFan's version) is fine. Every Star Wars movie needs a creature after all, and would would want to lose Liam Neeson's extremely Irish line-reading of "There's always a bigger fish."


I actually like the fish being there, but they take a lot of time without achieving the slightest amount of excitement. I had this idea: what if the fish is coming at them, but gets grabbed itself before it grabs them-- that would have the same impact, allow for the same line-- yet not slow us down for a fake scare beat.


-Padme cleans artoo and meets Jar Jar. They land on Tatooine.
Never liked that scene, or the whole concept of the "Queen" ordering Padme to clean R2. Just dub the name of another handmaiden over "Padme" and cut the cleaning scene scene. Oh, and the lines "It is to be commended" and "It deserves our gratitude" need to go entirely.

I totally agree with this-- that's why I want to cut all that stuff and get just to Padme cleaning R2. Without the Queen debriefing scene, the Padme cleaning the droid scene works a lot better. She's cleaning the droid and showing gratitude rather than telling us he deserves it. It's a much stronger character statement this way. It should be tweaked, but it provides an opportunity for Artoo to be a character and for Padme to meet Jar Jar which isn't covered in the magfan edit. I think the cleaning scene is a real undervalued opportunity. But the "debriefing" scene has got to go.

-Find Watoo's shop, Qui Gonn talks to Watoo out back
Would it be ripping-off Magnolia Fan to have Watto hum the Cantina song? I always liked that bit, but it probably wouldn't fit with our approach would it?

I don't know-- I personally feel like you that it's great. I believe it should stay because it somehow feels OT, even though I know it's more of a cheap joke/reference. It added a bit of quirkiness to Watto. Can we keep it?

-Maul/Grievous lands and sends out his probe droids.
As I suggested before I would move this to after the pod activation scene and follow it with an Anakin dream. What is the concenus on that, btw? I'm all for it if we can make it obscure and mysterious enough.

I haven't been convinced a dream is necessary, but I like the idea. Once we do a dream, it starts making Anakin the Main Character and I think the story is stronger if we stay completely with Qui Gonn -- not enough good Anakin footage is there to achieve a great Anakin Main Character story. He's much better as the character who is changed and affected by the Main Character -- the partner in the central relationship.

But I'm more interested in Drama-- and my placement of Maul's arrival is about energizing the Tatooine stuff -- until he arrives there is no threat. So they won't get the parts they need-- so they won't get to Coruscant-- yeah yeah. But what's the immediate danger? Maul's arrival keeps the story moving. Who's that guy? Is that the threat Nute mentioned? Is he gonna find them? He looks awesome, let's use him.

-Anakin shows Padme C3P0 after dinner.
Curious, why the shuffling of scene order here?

Because it totally interrupts the flow where it is now-- the story is about helping the Queen. The story is already floundering when the sandstorm hits-- we need to get to that dinner scene asap. The 3P0 scene is bad enough where ever it goes-- it's just more welcome after we know where the story is going. Plus it starts to back up the kid's claims of greatness better here, immediately following his "fastest pod-racer ever built" lines. It feels just plain weird to me where it is in TPM.

Sidenote: You seem to be pushing back Qui-Gon's notice/interest in Anakin's potential. Moving the conversation between him and Shmi is an interesting suggestion, but only if it can be edited smoothly. If not, it should stay as-si. Seeing his bet to free Anakin is essential though, IMO. It makes the stakes even higher: although he doesn't know it, Anakin is racing for his freedom. Moving the probe droid report to Maul up does make sense though, as the one Qui-Gon cut down is obviously not the one who returns to Maul.

The Shmi conversation can be moved very smoothly-- it actually opens up that goodbye scene much better.

Seeing the bet to free Anakin is essential? Well, I may have agreed at one time-- but I can't anymore. The idea that Qui Gonn has already made up his mind about the boy doesn't raise tension in the pod race -- it drains it completely. Did you really think the boy wouldn't win? I think the pod-race is awesome, but the end was never really in doubt and the idea that he was racing for his freedom was the furthest thing from my mind.

The bet makes the race a forgone conclusion -- Qui Gonn's side bet makes it unimaginable that Anakin could lose.

The worst damage it does is makes the podrace all about it's outcome-- there is nothing important being learned during that long sequence. It's just watching a pair of dice roll and roll and roll until it comes up "7." But if Qui Gonn hasn't made up his mind about the boy-- the race is full of tension and becomes what you want it to be-- a race for freedom. We know if Qui Gonn wants the boy, he'll figure out a way to get him. But this way it's the race that decides whether Qui Gonn wants him or not. As he says, he didn't come here to free slaves. But he will free the chosen one-- if that's who the boy turns out to be. That's the discovery Qui Gonn should be making as the kid wins this one after falling impossibly behind.

Imagine it my way for a second at least-- try it on.

-Anakin says goodbye to his mother and leaves (improved with tone poem, if possible)
-Maul sees Anakin for a moment, keeps fighting (don't know if we can do this)
Little things we should try if we can.

Exactly my thought.

-(cut the intro of Anakin to Obi Wan -- it's too upbeat) Fly away--
Agree about the upbeatness of it, but it is essential nonetheless. Cutting "You're a Jedi too?" would help. If you wanted to go really extreme with it, just mute all Anakin's dialogue in the exchange and have a clip of ominous music or something.


I would have agreed before-- but now not so much. Why is it essential? This isn't the Obi Wan story. The reason I think it has to go is that Lloyd's performance of those lines is more than off-- it is the absolute inarguable personification of a boy who hasn't got a care in the world. There is no way that kid is thinking about having lost his mom. He is not thinking about the Sith who almost killed him. That kid is just glad to meet Ewan McGregor for some reason. And that KILLS the story.

But if you imagine a different version-- Qui Gonn collapses on the floor; Obi Wan and Anakin rush in- Qui Gonn addresses them about that thing-- the ship takes off-- we cut to the EXT. SHIP FLYING shot-- we can keep the AUDIO of the introduction without the visual and solve this critical problem.

-Maul/Grievous reports to Gunray in the palace by trasmission. Nute's stoic, but clearly not thrilled.
Good, but I take it no close ups of Maul? Or just darkening the hood to complete blackness? That might be for the best, though we'd lose the one true Maul hologram clip, it would make the editing much smoother.


That's one way to go-- I'd try another as well-- using the Maul close ups and darkening the stars in the background to match the dark int. Castle background. If we use the fullscreen version cropped, that will make the job a lot easier and if we can only pull it off for a half a second it will make a huge difference.


Sidenote: The order of the Coruscant sequence should stay as-is. Having ALL the Senate stuff then ALL the Jedi stuff is too much of the same thing continuously. Let them break each other up.


You say this, but have you actually looked at it to try it? There isn't that much material in each category. "ALL" the senate stuff is only a couple minutes. And it completely screws up the flow of the personal story that's going on in the Jedi stuff. Letting the Jedi stuff flow teases out what's really going on in Qui Gonn's head. Cut the way it is makes it all very distant and cold. No momentum of any emotional sort is built up before we shift over to the other side that has no emotional momentum built up. These are two sequences that do not need to "break each other up."

We agreed earlier that we would also cut out the Anakin looks for Padme scene. So keep that in mind when you try looking at this footage. It goes faster as two sequences rather than six scenes.

-Queen reveals her plan -- Qui Gonn tunes out, disappointed (don't even explain the whole thing-- show him disinterested and bring up somber music). Amidala is brave, but this is hopeless...
This is good, I like this a lot.


Awesome. This is where all the tilting of things to Qui Gonn's point of view will really pay off. This ending has always played so hollow because it's told from 4 points of view at the same time with equal weight. That's just not good storytelling. Taking one single point of view makes it all more realistic and dramatic.

-The Jedi fight into the hanger and free the pilots.
I assume you plan on taking this from earlier in the film? I wouldn't, and leave that bit where it was originally.


Oops-- I didn't mean to cross those wires. I agree-- leave it as is.

Sidenote: Overall your plans for the final battles are great, though the key to success will be in the editing.


Yes, and we'll all have ideas to contribute there. The footage is limited enough for us to handle together. I already see the cuts I would make-- I'll do my best to communicate them completely so InfoDroid can do them my way if he doesn't already see it for himself (which is what I guess is more likely).

-From Anakin's p.o.v-- we see Qui Gonn's funeral pyre. No talk to Obi Wan.
I think that exchange between Obi-Wan and Anakin is essential. It's very short but at least establishes something between them.


Have you looked at this one lately? Maybe it would be nice to see Obi Wan tell Anakin that he will be trained, but this is absolutely the most unnatural place for it. Did Obi Wan really let the kid go all this time without telling him? He gathered him, walked to the funeral, lighting the body on fire, etc. without telling Anakin -- the 9 y.o. boy with no home, stripped of his mother, the chosen one-- what was going to happen to him? It's so unlikely. It also comes off like Anakin hadn't thought of it until Qui Gonn was half-way to ashes. "What's going to happen to me now?" Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you... Ugh.

The scene says everything it needs to if we start with the close up of Anakin, then cut to Qui Gonn burning. Then back to Anakin-- he turns to Obi Wan. Obi Wan looks at him. The boy looks back at the fire. Cut to Yoda, etc. Let the music and the images talk. They are so much better than the dialogue here.

Sidenote: Trooperman has said he has the perfect ending music for Episode I; not that I've heard it but chances are it'll work great. Also, though I hold by my opinion that each chapter in the saga should have it's own title, if we can't think of a good enough one, I say go with "Star Wars." It would certainly be a different approach, and add to the stand-alone feel.


Can't think of a good enough one? I thought of a great one imo. You don't like "Fate of the Jedi" I take it? :-( Why not? I think we can easily come up with a great one because this is such a different edit, a different story than any other edit yet. This is Qui Gonn's story, the lone Jedi who discovers the chosen one and sets the Jedi on their only path to escaping the clutches of the Sith. This is the story that casts the die-- there's something in the realm of "Fate of the Jedi" that captures what this episode was supposed to be about. It's not "The Phantom Menace" (although that title fits our edit better than the original) because this is supposed to be a stand alone film with a few loose ends, not just the beginning of a prequel trilogy.

I believe if we kick around ways of stating the core of this film, titles will present themselves.

But then again, I'm a huge fan of Star Wars '77-- and that crawl with no subtitle is lost forever if we don't use it here, so... If Trooperman doesn't mind that we don't have his montage, I'll be happy to make this his Episode I (which shouldn't say "Episode I" on it either, right?) I mean, if it says Episode I, then it needs its own sub-title to be consistent with the other supposed Episodes that that implies.

On the whole, I'm totally up for hearing your rebuttals to my rebuttals. I know that when we both agree on something then it's finally right.
Post
#163107
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Gotta love this coincidence -- the longest any you guys ever gone without posting is right after I post the big outline. Where'd all my friends go?

Holding court all by myself -- I continue--

The strategy here is to hone everything down to the adventure of Qui Gonn -- how his piss-ant assignment to help Naboo turned into the biggest discovery of his career and awakened the Council.

Now the beginning needs to feel like Qui Gonn's getting in over his head-- facing an enemy that can handle him. Then, when he meets Anakin, I want to feel his discovery of Anakin's powers. Slowly, the decision comes that he must take this boy to the council, this boy is the chosen one. Having Qui Gonn get it all at once immediately-- and then (ick) testing the boy for midiclorians -- all undermined any sense of awe or discovery. It was too clinical and exposition oriented. Drawing out the discovery and hiding Qui Gonn's interest in taking the boy until after the race that confirms his suspicions about the boy's power makes this all more dramatic and OT.

The idea that Qui Gonn's meeting with the council is less civil than in TPM came up thread. What a boost that gives the second half-- Qui Gonn feels condemned and his discovery tossed aside. He should now come off as feeling doomed, dutifully facing an overwhelming enemy. The council just isn't listening or functioning right-- and he and Anakin may pay the price.

Leaving Obi Wan's warning "they all sense he's dangerous, admit it" without him apologizing makes this all more jagged and interesting too. Obi Wan is a supporting character in Episode I and we don't need to go out of our way to make him apologize about Anakin-- it actually suits SOTD better to have him maintain his suspicions. And it keeps the emotions raw as we head into the final bloody battle.

It especially keeps us keyed in on Qui Gonn and how little understood he is.

I look forward to your comments and hope I can make all the strenghts of these changes clear.

Take care--
Post
#163098
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: Mask
What I meant, you could do a flashback scene in AOTC, in TPM it would be confusing since the audience doesnt know who this new character.

It makes more sense for AOTC since it gives new light to this newly introduced character.

It may simpilfy, but viewers that see this new version first instead of watching the original will be confused, you do want to simplify the movie but to leave important details than your creating new problems.


Well, wait until you see it ;-)

No one was confused in ANH by reference to the Emperor. There will be no confusion in our Episode I-- in fact there will be less than there was with TPM. Don't you remember people being baffled about the political story in TPM? I sure do. It seemed sort of clear, but what was the Emperor doing in there and why did he pretend he didn't know stuff that Palpatine knew? All that's gone and the Sidious role is played the way things would have been if this were in the OT-- more subtle on the politics. More emphasis on story and adventure.

And as to Dukoo -- I don't think we've established a way to include him for sure. But if we do, he won't be any more confusing than the dozen or so other characters who are introduced in this story as Jedi whom we've never seen before. At any rate, flashbacks are kind of out of the question because we won't be introducing any techniques which aren't in the OT-- except maybe the dream which has become essential to SOTD and is included in ROTS quite effectively. I think an Episode II flashback might come off as a band-aid anyway. The problem with the character isn't that he somehow didn't exist in the past, it's that we didn't know he existed. It would've been cooler if we'd sort of heard the name before. Don't you agree? (Maybe that's the solution-- just say his name. Kind of like when Luke asked "Did you fight in the Clone Wars?" and we waited four more movies to see what he was talking about.)

If we could just get Dukoo into Episode I, then it would really make him a richer character in Episode II. But if we can't-- he never bothered me that much anyway. I like that idea of just getting his name in there somewhere...

Thoughts?

Post
#163094
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
I'm no Dukoo expert, but didn't he leave the Jedi ten years ago in AOTC?

As for Sidious, he hasn't been removed as far as the story's concerned-- he's still the hidden Sith Master pulling the strings. We just get hints of him instead of seeing him front and center twisting his moustache and snarling like the original release. This is more like the Emperor's role in ANH. Felt, but not seen. It fits much better with the Phantom Menace idea behind the political story-- and it simplifies the movie. It's all good.
Post
#163051
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Here's the outline I promised. Hope you can read it. It gets more detailed in the third act where things get very intercut and there are a lot of changes.

Remember, this is to be the story of Qui Gonn finding the chosen one and waking up the council.

This is very LOW resolution -- there are dozens of changes that go into each act beyond what you see here. This is just the general flow of things. And it should give us a place to start talking and getting a script together for the first five pages or so. That way, InfoDroid can start cutting real stuff and stop casting his pearls before swine. ;-)

A lot of the moments we need to create will come from close ups. These we can generate from cropping the full screen version. I want to do this for other reasons at literally dozens of places, so I hope you've got the full and widescreen versions, my friend. We'll help out if you don't.

Here 'tis (for now):

Star Wars Episode I: "Fate of the Jedi"

Act 1

Qui Gonn and Obi Wan fly to the Trade Federation starship.
Nute Gunray orders their execution, glad to kill some Jedi again as he used to.
The Jedi fight their way toward Nute, he's eager to face them, but the #2 Guy orders Destroyer droids to kill them and the Jedi run.
Nute talks to Queen Amidala -- threatens her. She says he's gone too far.
He starts his invasion -- the Jedi ride the ships down.
Qui Gonn saves Jar Jar
Jar Jar leads the Jedi to his city (no "on second thought"/"a thousand terrible things" beat).
(quickly)Boss Nass gives them a bongo and they head to Naboo
We hear Jar Jar's back story, but no giant fish grabs them

Nute's droids conquer Naboo.
Jar Jar and the Jedi arrive -- they search for the Queen and save her -- recut for more thrills.
They decide to leave and free the Queen's ship (brutal, no one talks to the droids)
They blast off and fly past the blockade -- saved by Artoo
Still in range of the starships, they decide to go to Tatooine and finally escape (keep tension high).

#2 Guy says "Oh no, she escaped" but Nute says he's already won. Besides... "She's never beyond my grasp..."

Act 2
Padme cleans artoo and meets Jar Jar. They land on Tatooine.
Tanaka tells Qui Gonn "take Padme to town" (moving dialogue so scene is inside ship)
Qui Gonn leads party into Mos Espos (Using Tatooine music, no dialogue)
Find Watoo's shop, Qui Gonn talks to Watoo out back
Inside: Anakin uses "force talk" to communicate with Padme. She's shocked.
Qui Gonn leaves with Padme and Jar Jar gets in trouble with Sebulba
Anakin saves Jar Jar -- Qui Gonn takes special notice of the boy.
(staying with Qui Gonn) A Sandstorm comes -- Anakin invites Qui Gonn to his house.
Qui Gonn meets Anakin's mom -- "very interesting" his eyes seem to say...

Maul/Grievous lands and sends out his probe droids.

Dinner scene -- Anakin offers to race for Qui Gonn's parts.
Anakin shows Padme C3P0 after dinner.

Qui Gonn goes back to Watoo -- makes a deal.
Obi Wan warns Qui Gonn, they're running out of time.
Anakin preps the pod racer (no convesation between Qui Gonn and Shmi here)
The probe droid searches through town...

The Race Day comes -- Qui Gonn advises Anakin to use the force.
The race begins
Anakin falls behind, but then starts to come back...
Qui Gonn feels Anakin's reaching out. He feels the boy's power.
Anakin wins the race -- celebration.

Nute (on walking throne) continues killing Naboo -- Glad to have his slave trade up and running again.

Qui Gonn goes to Watoo to collect his winnings: including (surprise) Anakin!

Probe droid returns to Maul/Greivous -- reports to him. He gets on his bike. He's coming...

Qui Gonn takes Anakin home to tell mom -- he's free. He'll be a Jedi!
Outside, Qui Gonn tells Shmi how special he is (will you be able to help him? -- footage from earlier)
Anakin says goodbye to threepio (truncated)
Anakin says goodbye to his mother and leaves (improved with tone poem, if possible)

Qui Gonn finds Probe droid, runs, Maul/Grievous attacks!
Maul sees Anakin for a moment, keeps fighting (don't know if we can do this)
Qui Gonn escapes. As they fly off, he explains "that thing" was trained in Jedi arts--
(cut the intro of Anakin to Obi Wan -- it's too upbeat) Fly away--

Mid Act 2 Break

Maul/Grievous reports to Gunray in the palace by trasmission. Nute's stoic, but clearly not thrilled.
Padme sees message about Naboo, gets token from Anakin (more music; more quiet/almost no talk)

They all arrive at Coruscant and split in 2 groups.
Amidala talks to Palpatine about their options
Amidala confronts the Senate and votes down the Chancellor

Qui Gonn faces the council, introduces the idea of Anakin
The Council tests Anakin
Qui Gonn and Obi Wan talk on the balcony at sunset -- The sun sets.
The Council tells Qui Gonn they will not train Anakin. Tell him to go find the Sith.

Palpatine becomes Chancellor, but Amidala tells him she's going home.
On landing deck, Qui Gonn tells Anakin about the Sith as they prepare to go back to Naboo.
They take off--

Act 3
Qui Gonn warns he can't fight a war for Amidala. She calls on Jar Jar. Cut to:
ON NABOO--Jar Jar comes out of the water, says "Not there. I know where to go"
(cut the Qui Gonn/Obi Wan-stare-in-the-distance-talking scene)
Amidala reveals herself to Boss Nass -- new ally
Queen reveals her plan -- Qui Gonn tunes out, disappointed (don't even explain the whole thing-- show him disinterested and bring up somber music). Amidala is brave, but this is hopeless...
(Cut the Jar Jar is a general scene)


Droids report to Nute that an army is amassing. He orders his droids to engage.
He tells Maul/Grievous to look out for the Jedi.

The Gungans approach through the mist and stand ready.
The droid army greets them. -- they open fire. They deploy the soldiers.
Amidala and the Jedi invade Naboo -- BoOm! (no "laser-pen" signals, please?)
Nute Gunray's #2 convinces him to leave the castle and return to the starship.

The soldiers march on the Gungans and slaughter begins.
The Jedi fight into the hanger and free the pilots.
Starfighters take off.
Anakin gets in a starfighter.
Qui Gonn tells Anakin to stay put -- uses "force talk" to reassure him.
Maul/Grievous arrives. Amidala splits off.
Anakin defeats the destroyer droids -- flies off (we need a Qui Gonn reaction shot).

Qui Gonn battles Maul/Grievous
The slaughter on the battlefield continues -- we only see Jar Jar once maybe.
Anakin flies aimlessly up, then sees the battle and heads for it.
Nute Arrives on the droid ship and finds out the battle is going great. He loves the ships exploding around him.
Amidala attacks the castle -- unaware there's no one left to catch...
Qui Gonn fights --
The Gungans are captured.
Amidala's captured.


Anakin flies into the battle (and we put almost all the space footage into this one sequence)
Qui Gonn reaches out to Anakin (intercut close-ups) and guides him into the battle.
(Use as much Anakin footages as possible- cover Anakin lip-flap with whispers to himself which we record-- "reach out with my feelings... let go...")
Qui Gonn fights -- gets separated from Obi Wan by red shields--
Anakin roars into the droid ship and stalls...
Meditating; Qui Gonn "tells" Anakin to reach out and see his surroundings.
Anakin tries to get the ship going again...
The red shield lets Qui Gonn fight-- Maul/Grievous kills Qui Gonn
Obi Wan screams
Anakin feels it. He screams! Qui Gonn yells in Anakin's head: "Anakin!"

Nute gets a report that the war is over-- Amidala is captured.

Obi-Wan gets out and fights-- gets knocked into the tube.
Qui Gonn lies on the ground --
Anakin, pissed, hearing Qui Gonn yell in his head, fires the guns and the torpedoes --

Nute feels the ship shake and it begins to explode
Other ships see it exploding from the inside -- Anakin's in trouble...

Obi Wan jumps up and kills Maul/Grievous

Anakin flies out of the exploding ship; just in time.
Nute and Nemoidians die.
The droids fail. Amidala frees herself with guns in her throne room.
Heading home, Anakin hears the Qui Gonn tone poem...
As it finishes, Obi Wan holds Qui Gonn and promises to train Anakin
A last shot of Anakin flying home...

Denoument:

The Chancelor's ship arrives. Palpatine greets Amidala and Anakin
Yoda tells Obi Wan that Anakin will be his apprentice
From Anakin's p.o.v-- we see Qui Gonn's funeral pyre. No talk to Obi Wan.
Yoda tells Mace "there is another" -- pan to Palaptine.
Final Parade -- See Anakin With Obi Wan in Jedi garb.
Amidala gives Crystal back to Boss Nass.

THE END.
Post
#163028
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
I agree too -- I love hearing the other opinions, but (as with the Obi Wan lie thing) it's hard to tell the difference between discussing opinions and deciding what way this project is going.

The Obi Wan Lie thing has been a discussion of opinion to me-- sorry. I think the ultimate treatment of it was pushed back since it doesn't effect anything in Episode I or II. How it will be addressed in this Saga Bible was never decided as far as I knew-- but I agree with others that letting it stand and finding a way to justify it is probably the best way to go.

But the outline must come soon... stand by.

Post
#163001
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
Okay...

Maybe we're not going about this the right way.

That's the last clip I'm posting until I have a script. Just tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it.


InfoDroid, I completely agree that we can find a more productive way to work once we have a script. I am very afraid we're wasting your good will and good effort. Let's get a script together now for you to work from.

Here's what I propose: I've got a pretty good outline of the whole picture in my head. I need to solve a couple issues and get the outline posted up here. Once we have that to work from, let's create a script for just the first five minutes or so and let you get to work.

Then, while you're cutting that, we can work out the rest of the script by staying ahead of you and leaving you always equipped with stuff to do.

Does it bother you to work from the beginning to the end? Is there a place you'd prefer to start from?

I'll try to get that outline up asap!

I want to take a minute and thank you again for your great work and great ideas, InfoDroid.
Post
#162994
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
InfoDroid --

While I love this Anakin's Dream clip as a fan -- I don't believe it suits the film we're making. I mean to comment on the way this dream comes off, and not the impact it has. Actually, seeing this clip makes me think a dream will help the movie-- but not such an explicit montage of clips.

Trooperman's dream sequence is posted as screen-caps in the SOTD thread. He's doing his best to emulate the dreams from ROTS which work for what they're supposed to do.

Putting this much information in a dream for Anakin will create an imbalance. Why doesn't he mention a dream that's this clear?

I don't think we can have any image that's recognizable as a clip from the movie. I love the way you tweaked the images, by the way.

Let's talk about what this dream is supposed to accomplish, because to me it has to be something confusing and indeciferable as it happens and only become clear in hindsight. I think it might be as simple as blackness with Qui Gonn yelling "Anakin!!" then blending to Padme's voice of saying "Anakin" and waking him up. The real point I think we need to hammer home is the special connection Qui Gonn and Anakin have and the fact that Anakin is special and far more powerful than he realizes.

A premonition of Qui Gonn's death just can't be covered properly in the rest of the film. Remember, such dreams drive all Anakin's actions in SOTD and in ROTS. We can't just put another one in here and never refer to it again. Further, I don't see what tipping our hand about Qui Gonn's death gets us.

But getting into Anakin's head this way has a strong sense of value to it, so I want to support the idea of a dream -- just (and I apologize) not the way we're trying it right now.