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MTHaslett

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13-Apr-2005
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4-Sep-2024
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Post
#166243
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: darthpreston
Mthaslett, what an amazing re-write of the beginning, I am already growing in love with this edit..........it just feels like TPM that I wanted to see in may 99. Just a quick question..............the only thing kept from TPM that i'm not in love with is Jar jar "banishment" plot. Why do we have to stick with the idea of him being banished for clumsiness? To me, that just kind of harkens back to the sillyness of the original movie. Jar jar being banished is something that cannot be avoided........however you could simply cut the end of Obi Wans line in the bongo to where he says " you were banished?" and then you could add dialouge to jar jar to create a more convincing story. If you sticking with the kyber crystal thing, then just have it relate to that and not because he was "clumsy" and fell asleep and it was stolen. This is just my opinion, but if you're going to re-write this whole shin dig anyway, might as well make it as iconic as you can. But, like I said, everything else is amazing and I can't wait to see this thing cut together. Haha, and we are only through the first 20 or 30 minutes of the film! But, is there any other reasons we can use besides the gungans kicking him out for being a jackass? Personally, I feel it would add to his character if he was defiant and they kick him out, or he left on purpose. Let us continue........


Good point-- It would be nice to change that. We are using the crystal, but like you said...

And since the banishment isn't revealed earlier, the line reading might work if OW just says "You were banished..." as if in disbelief or surprise.

Good idea! -- and THANKS for the compliments! I'm liking this thing too!
Post
#166162
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Next Bit of Script:

---

Entering Gunga city

INT. GUNGA CITY STREET
[Music is threatening and mysterious. It gets darker as we go]
Q and O squish through the door and walk inside. CUT to the shot of them all walking to the stairs, seen from behind. A guard runs up from screen left as they reach the bottom of the stairs. CUT to the reverse shot of them all at the bottom of the stairs as a second Guard runs up. This guard has his lance down-- he zaps Jar Jar (shave a few frames out so the zap is more assertive and removes that pause). Jar Jar jumps back-- CUT to

Close of the Guard threatening them. He says all his lines (as shot). Cut to: Q looking around, reacting (a FS crop of his first reaction shot as he enters the city). CUT to the pan across Gunga city where the citizens all take notice of the Jedi (start the pan after we already can't see Q or JJ or the guards). This pan is our last shot of Gunga before we cut to:

EXT. GRASSY FIELDS
The Droid army approaches Naboo. ADD SOUND F/X OF EXPLOSIONS AND LASER BLASTS

EXT. NABOO CITY
Then ships fly over the Castle
Then (this is tricky) ships fly over the streets, seen from below as debris flies through the air (This shot is from the parade at the end -- two groups of ships speed by as confetti falls and the camera tilts downward)

INT. CASTLE
Then we see the droid army through a window, approaching...
Then we see a wide shot of the Queen looking out the window
Then cut to the medium shot of the Queen, as she lets her head fall forward in defeat...
STILL HEARING BOOMS LASERS AND SCREAMS

INT. BOSS NASS CHAMBER
First the establishing shot from outside, then The next four shots of Boss Nass talking without cutting to the Jedi for response. Let him get a real wind on -- he's upset that the Jedi council seems so foolish as to only send two Jedi when the Galaxy is in the balance. The Gungans will face their deaths with pride. Cut in a shot of Qui Gonn reacting surprised and/or worried, but no talking (we'll have to create it if we can with the FS). Nass continues. Finally Qui Gonn says his line: "The Droid Army's about to attack the Naboo. We must warn them." Boss Nass continues. He's talking about the prophecy of the Force. He's wise and the music and dialogue support that (once we add it ) He uses all his good looking dialogue shots without interruption until he finally says "be gone with you" and the Jedi turn to leave, "We go in peace." (OMIT the head shaking, please) CUT to Jar Jar being released and the Jedi going up the stairs. OMIT the "What's a bongo?" dialogue or anything else about stopping for Jar Jar. Boss Nass controls what happens here -- the Jedi know it and go along.

EXT. OTAH GUNGA
The bongo swims out and Jar Jar talks to the Jedi. Leave in the "You were banished because you were clumsy" stuff. We're going to borrow MagFan's dialogue strategy here. A fish takes interest in them -- just when it's about to shoot out it's tongue at them -- Qui Gonn turns and notices it -- and it gets CHOMPED by a bigger fish. "There's always a bigger fish"

"Head for that outcropping" The Bongo disappears and we wipe...

To EXT. NABOO CASTLE -- seen from the water. Cut Inside before the Bongo surfaces - Nute escorts the Queen downstairs...

MORE LATER
Post
#166151
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
SotE music is playing a large role in the restructuring of the Episode I soundtrack already. I don't think adding those pieces to the OT can improve things, but the PT, especially TPM, could use the help of some vaguely OT music. MagFan used it in the pod-race to great effect. We'll do that kind of thing too --

But that's really InfoDroid and Trooperman's department.
Post
#166061
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Next TINY bit of script (more to come, but this is something for TJ)

---
Picking Up where Qui Gonn tackles Jar Jar...

[ADD SOUND F/X OF BLASTING, BOOMING, DESTRUCTIVE DROID TRANSPORTS REMAINING ALWAYS NEARBY -- until we get to the lake shore with Jar Jar -- then the sounds are muted and distant, but STILL PRESENT]

EXT. FOREST
The transport travels over Jar Jar and Qui Gonn -- they lie on the ground as it recedes. They move, rising to stand and we CUT

To a Droid riding a flying glider and shooting (the one who's chasing Obi Wan) CUT:
To Qui Gonn, lighting his saber and bouncing the blast back at the Droid, Obi Wan running closer. CUT:
To Qui Gonn deflecting blasts back at more droids as Obi Wan runs closer. Camera follows debris into bushes
Jar Jar stands between Qui Gonn and Obi Wan -- speaks. Obi Wan asks what's this. Qui Gonn says "a local. Let's go before more droids come." CUT away as Obi Wan crosses frame, before Jar Jar starts his clown faces and speaking...
(The effect is that this attack is closer to where the tackle happened and makes the threat of the droids stay more imminent. The backgrounds match surprisingly well when cut on all this movement).


CUT TO: them all running together and Jar Jar offering to take them to a city. They stop and talk to Jar Jar. (keep it going until Qui Gonn's line: "...us there?") and CUT
TO: over Qui Gonn's shoulder on Jar Jar. Let Jar Jar talk until "...me going back there" He's saying something like: "I can take you there if you have the courage to face Boss Nass -- he will not be kind. He knows things... But it's safer there than out here..." Let a rising musical sting cue us for a dangerous decision as we WIPE...
To: Jar Jar leading the Jedi to the river bank

When Jar Jar leaps in the air, CUT to the Jedi putting in their mouth pieces so we don't see the silly triple-gainer dive.

Then get us underwater using everything except the shot where Jar Jar pokes his head out of the water -- he jumps in the water and disappears and the Jedi have to follow...

Under water use everything except OMIT the close up of Obi Wan -- keep things on Qui Gonn.

MORE LATER
Post
#166006
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: olzen
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
This was recently posted by "CO" in another thread:

-He just looked at me and said, "I am your father!" That is the best part of all the movies.


Now, this goes to show that even though we know the whole story of Anakin, Vader's revelation could still be quite potent. Look at ROTS. We all knew what was going to happen and we all knew how, but that was really what made it more horrifying to watch. I mean, I always end up crying during the order 66-montage even though it hardly came as a surprise when it finally happened! So overall, I'd be strictly in favour of keeping that scene as it is, even though it means Obi-Wan will still be a liar, though I like to think he's just protecting Luke from the truth.


Yeah-- pretty compelling.

I think for the sake of the Saga, it has to stay as a reveal to Luke -- so the lie has to stay too.

I'm more and more convinced the best way to "save" things is to provide a compelling reason in ROTS where Yoda instructs OW to keep the truth from Luke. The best reason to me is that if Luke knows the truth, then the Sith will find him through his emotions -- as Yoda sensed Anakin's murder of the Sandpeople and Vader sensed Luke on Hoth in ESB. The danger in Luke knowing isn't about whether it will make him turn bad -- but that he will not be able to repress ALL the emotoins it stirs up. And any emotions from Luke about Anakin put him at risk of discovery.

Then Alec Guiness' performance as he lies to Luke really works -- he looks reluctant to lie, but does it anyway-- as if he were instructed to.

Then the ESB reveal stays and Obi Wan isn't just randomly lying to Luke and creating a dangerous situation out of some misguided, improvised whim.
Post
#165732
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Oooo -- I like the potential of that idea!

Wouldn't want to overdo it in the OT-- but definitely it needs to raise its head in the "return of Anakin" duel of ROTJ somehow. Probably it would add texture to a lot of what happens between Vader, Luke and the Emperor from the time Vader and Luke meet again at the elevator.

Kind of like putting the Imperial march into ANH a little -- we don't want to screw up what's done well, but add continuity and texture to the whole Saga.

Sharing some more ideas:

I've been looking for ways to keept more suspense in the action -- looking for places to make things look desperate for our heroes. Here are some:

When Jar Jar leads the Jedi to Gunga -- let their arrest be more rapid, give the guards some smarts: "So, Jedi. We know how to deal with your kind." Zap. The Jedi don't resist and we cut on a real downbeat--

TO NABOO -- The droids pour in and LASER BLASTS and EXPLOSIONS fill the soundtrack. The resistance is being wiped out. Ships fly over the castle. More BOOMS. There's a shot from the parade at the end looking up as Naboo fighters fly over Naboo and confetti flies -- add BLASTER SOUNDS and BOOMS and it looks like war footage -- hear SCREAMS, make this violent. Show the army approaching through a window and finally (moving this shot to the end) show us Amidala at the window, looking defeated...

Back to Gunga -- the Jedi face Boss Nass -- he says "Two Jedi? That's all the council sent? They are blind. This is a time of prophecy..." Etc. He gives them a Bongo and they go. They get chased by fish, then head for that outcropping... CUT TO:

Ext. Naboo, establishing-- cut away before Bongo surfaces. THen Nute marches the queen. Still hear muted Explosions, lasers and Screams. Nute orders the Queen "processed" and they march her away -- outside, down the street -- as long as we can make it seem WITHOUT cutting to the Jedi. We can still hear distant sounds of Battle. Then, just when it looks like no one can help, we see the Jedi heads pop into frame and they leap down from the walkway to devestate the droids and save teh PRincess. With the sounds of a war in the background it makes the Jedi attack feel like there's anger that they wish they could do more.

This surprise activates all the interchange between the Jedi and the Queen's guard. They actually catch us up on what's going on rather than just repeating what we all know so freakin' well already.

They viciously destroy the droids in the hanger and get on the ship and go-- saving what few Naboo they can. With battle sounds in the distance, Qui Gonn's warning that the Nemoidians will "kill you if you stay" seems a lot more accurate. They blast off.

Then when they approach the droid control ship, recutting this for more tension will mean avoiding as many shots of that pilot as possible. His shots all look like a guy sitting at his PC playing a video game. Shortening a lot of shots will help too. Then, as Artoo gets the shields back up, add a shot of Fighter Droids approaching (there's one in particular from the final battle that we can reverse and use) -- the Nemoidians aren't just letting them go. Keep the laser sounds and explosions Booming as they have a briefer discussion about how the hyperdrive is leaking and they should go to Tatooine (cut Panaka's B.S. objections) and then they escape by flying off (into hyperspace? Just cause the hyperdrive is leaking doesn't mean they can't make the jump, does it?) Anyway -- we can maybe assume they just outrun the droid ships which is basically what's there now anyway.

Adding these sources of tension will help a lot, I think.

Thoughts?

Post
#165664
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
What I would like from Duel of the Fates is to make it represent the growing time of prophecy that is occuring in this film.

The Nemoidians are doing something much bigger than blocking a trade route -- they are playing with Galactic history.

I think this theme fits that music.

So as we build the awareness within Qui Gonn that his distrust of the council is well-founded -- that something big is up and only he seems to be aware of it -- that the boy is the chosen one and that Maul, the TF, the Queen, and the Jedi all have roles and mistakes to make in order for the prophecy to become real -- the theme should build until the final battle where the prophecy is held in the balance -- and Qui Gonn's death makes it possible for Anakin to be taken as a Padawan.

I'd like something mysterious and powerful for Jar Jar and the Gungan -- they are the only ones besides Qui Gonn who sees the age of Prophecy coming.
Post
#165599
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Continuing my in multi-post ways --

Can we talk about the Duel of the Fates theme/musical cues?

I like them so much-- but because TPM is so flawed structurally, they don't mean much in the context of the movie. They signal the Maul/Qui Gonn showdown and that's about it -- or am I missing something?

I know they imply a great fate is in the balance -- and that's what they should mean -- but how does that play out in the movie? Maul knows nothing of Anakin, and really niether does anyone else.

In this new version of the story there's more opportunity to create meaning.

What do people think about introducing the themes and cues earlier -- building toward a full orchestration when all the pieces come together in the final battle?
Post
#165246
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
...SO back to business:

Erik --

We're going to have some revisions to the first bit of script -- and that makes me realize we may have caused you a headache. SO I ask: if we change part 1,does that make you have to manually change all the other parts that contain part 1?

If so, let's log each snippet separately to save work.

---

One bit we've been struggling with is the "intro" of Nute.

I think what we have is close-- but it needs to be tweaked.

Holding back on his first appearance means we can't just cut to him talking to the droid or appearing on the vid-screen as he does in TPM.

The first attempt was to find him fuming mad about the idea that he's been secretly kept from killing the Jedi. This doesn't work because the footage for such a furious entrance doesn't exist -- and frankly that idea is kind of self-destructive. What kind of leader doesn't know how the Jedi will be dealt with?

So the cut goes from the ship landing, the Jedi talking, the Droids stacking up outside their door, the ship being blasted, the gas coming in, the door opening... the Jedi attack and massacre the droids, and...

Cut to: (again, all dialogue is Temp)
The Nemoidian Comm guy: "The Jedi are cornered, bu the droids are falling fast."

Next shot: over Gunray's left shoulder, favoring Flunky #1
Flunky #1: "It is worth it to spend a few droids. They will self-correct to defeat the Jedi. We must protect you, Lord Gunray. It has been too long since you killed a Jedi"
Nute: "I am still not convinced."

Cutaway of Jedi killing droids

Nemoidian Comm guy: "The Jedi are coming this way."
Next shot: again, over Nute's shoulder on Flunky #1 (the second such available shot)
Nute: "Bring them here. I will deal with them."
Flunky #1: "It is too risky. If they should get lucky, we cannot afford to lose you."

Cutaway of Jedi killing more droids

Close on Flunky #1: "The Destroyers will stop them..."
Nute: "Get away from me. You have failed."
Cutting to the shot of Flunky #1 shrinking away and Nute turning toward camera-- but cutting away as we get our first glimpse of his face (before the shot pans over to catch Sidious).
Cut to Comm Guy: "They have shut down communications"
Cut To: Nute spinning round to face camera for our first real look at him.

Flunky #2 is there to provide more advice as they walk across the bridge to the closing door. Nute shouts an order, the doors shut and Nute believes this is a further mistake-- but Flunky #2 is calmly adamant that Nute should be protected.

The Jedi arrive and start cutting down the door.

This adjustment is to say that Nute okayed an attempt to kill the Jedi with droids, but he had his doubts. When it fails, he feels angry and misled. He wants to go with his initial plan of face to face combat, but the underlings feel Nute is too important to risk.

We should work in a hint about the effort they've made to get this invasion to be legal and hint at a role of another -- namely Sidious.

We should add appropriate shots of underlings and background agents to let this dialogue play out naturally -- so I guess that means we'd better write it

anyway...
Then, when the Destroyer droids arrive and start holding the Jedi off -- THAT'S when the Amidala call comes -- while the Jedi battle the destroyers in the background.

After the talk with Amidala ends, Nute orders his invasion. The Jedi are cornered and finished.

Then the Jedi escape! Nute and the flunky see it happen on the screen -- rather in disbelief(?)

Nute wants them brought to him-- (adjust from the spinning shot we've currently got. It has the right energy, but needs an additional shot or two to amend it)

Then we cut to the Queen's castle...

How does this sound?

Post
#165212
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
Hello everyone! This is Trooperman

Welcome back!


One concern that I do have is the use of the name “Darth Grievous” throughout Episode I. I much prefer “Darth Maul”- it’s so much better aesthetically that it’d almost be worth it to me to just leave General Grievous as is in Episode III.


We don't get to hear his name a lot -- maybe a combo of "Maul Grievous" instead of "Darth Grievous" would suffice. I never understood why "Darth" suddenly became a title. Clearly, in ANH, it isn't a title since Obi Wan calls Vader "Darth" repeatedly. It was his first name, as conceived -- changed retroactively into a catch-all title "Darth SIdious" "Darth Maul" "Count Dukoo" "General Grievous" "Darth Vader" -- what's the rhyme and reason there?


I’m also very pleased that you’ve decided to go with my plan to title this film “Star Wars”. I’m not as happy about the omission of the prologue. Thinking back, I didn’t really care about having a LOTR style narrator and accompanying video. Even a series of blue sentences (in the same font as “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away) that fade in and out would be very nice. We could have eerie music- or just fade the very brief and succinctly worded cards in and out. Kind of like the beginning of “2010”. I just think we need something for the beginning of everything, telling us about a war between the Jedi and the Sith in which the Sith were completely wiped out. “But there were whispers ever afterwards that the Sith had survived…”. Fade to black. “STAR WARS” logo appears, with familiar music.


Well, you have a lot of pull as spiritual leader around here. I must say, however, that this sounds like something to accomplish in the crawl proper. Does it really make sense to have a crawl to set up the crawl? If we have a single crawl after the title -- it should (and this was a disappointment about TPM for me) begin with a paragraph that sets up the Galaxy we're dealing with. "For Thousands of generations, the Galactic Republic has stood. Long ago, the Jedi Knights -- guided by the mysterious FORCE -- defeated the dark power of the evil Sith, establishing freedom and prosperity. The people of the Galaxy then allied their star systems into a single Republic for the protection of all..."

MTH in particular- GREAT conceptual ideas and great bits of script you’ve posted. I especially like the new Boss Nass. How intelligent and wise he is now! The only issue is the cartoonish imagery, which I suppose is cured by taking the eyes off of the picture and onto the subtitles.

Thanks -- and yes, that's my idea. Plus, the cartoons become less annoying when the substance of their minds becomes intriguing. Boss Nass has to be the first to mention "The Prophecy" and how this feels like an age of prophecy -- setting Qui Gonn up for his discovery.

I’ll continue to follow this thread- however, I’m not going to be able to give consistent feedback and ideas on this, as I don’t have a clear picture in my head of what Episode I should be like. It’s such a flawed film, but there are so many interesting ideas to fix it. I liked MF’s approach to Jar-Jar; cocky and arrogant. However, I also think that some charm and wit is in order for his character, along with some British or Australian type of subtitles. That’s my picture of Jar-Jar (and the alien voice certainly needs to sound more normal in pitch). As far as the imagery- I would REALLY think to yourself with every shot- how is the cinematography? Is this classic filmmaking? Are these good compositions? Are the colors ridiculous, does the CG look like a cartoon, and are the colors oversaturated? That’s one big issue I have with this movie, particularly with the end battle. I don’t think they could have made the imagery more phony. We need realistic and muted colors, better and more dramatic lighting, impact flashes and lighting fluctuations during the battle, etc.


Excellent advice which I hope we can live up to. Your help will be most appreciated in a final pass, as you suggest.

I can try to share with everyone the specifics of using the full-screen DVD for anamorphic widescreen shots, but it generally just involves an anamorphic math calculation, making the choice of what part of the full-screen frame you want, and sometimes, a bit of sharpening to counter the softness sometimes apparent using the method. I think the advantages in storytelling and cinematography far outweigh the technical issues.


MUCH needed -- great news that we can pick what part of the frame we want, since some of the time it'll be the top portion, sometimes the bottom. I was afraid it came down to just slapping black bars onto the frame-- which would ruin some shots.

YES- and this is the most important to me. I’ve realized that to some people, believability in the PT is a big thing. To some, it’s the storyline. To some, it’s the excitement of adding new scenes, or changing lines, or what have you. To me, it’s the overall aesthetics, the cinematography, and the music that is most important. When I’m editing, this is first and foremost on my mind. Occasionally, I will make a decision to keep a beat, or to cut something out, not because it makes a lot of sense, but because it is dramatically effective. There are many, many things in these prequels where people might ask, “Why did you change this? There was nothing wrong with the way it was before.” There may not have been anything wrong with it before, but why settle for mediocrity when you can make it breathtaking, exhilarating…classic?

I’m off on a tangent. I will try to comment on some more specifics later. I still don’t know how a dream will advance the story any. If anything, it would seem to be a break stylewise from SW, especially for a stand-alone movie like the original. Yes, I know it will be done in SOTDS and in Ep. III, but there is a very important purpose in these cases. I would still need to be convinced that this is important to the story.


Classic. High standards indeed. We'll do our best and count on your help in the end -- but I think starting with story is the way to go. If we can make the story solid, then things have a chance to become classic. But no bit will work at that level if the overall story isn't somehow elevated first.

I love the idea of the first Anakin/Padme scene being a haunting moment, with the force theme playing and no dialogue. I would not abuse this technique of using little to no dialogue in a scene, though; I think part of what makes it special is its contrast with everything else, which could be lost if it is overused.


Agreed -- I think the footage isn't there to do it anyway. But if the first beat can be haunting, then the rest will play better. There are many scenes, however, that will play better with LESS dialogue. There is a dirth of OT style scenes that play out without wall-to-wall expositonal dialogue. "You come from a warm planet, space is cold, I don't need this to remember you, I care about you too, but... BLECH!" Reducing things to a couple words and the looks on their faces makes that scene so much better.

Anyway, thanks very much for reading. I can’t believe the number of responses this thread has gotten in such a short time- why didn’t you guys do this for my thread? Maybe because I sometimes don’t respond for days on end! (my fault). And a new “Ranch” website- wow! (I still think we can generate a better name). Anyway, with the new interest in this new fan-created SW saga, it doesn’t look like we’ll have trouble securing voice actors for whatever we may need (sinister, Ensligh speaking battle droids, perhaps- to cut down on subtitles, Jar-Jar, maybe even someone’s son to dub Anakin? That’s certainly pushing it).


We tried to hijack your thread over Thanksgiving -- but it didn't really help you Consider this whole thread an extention of yours -- and I must point out that things have slowed down after narrowing the focus to just Episode I. Discussing the whole Saga invites so many emotions and opinions that it was easy to rip through a dozen posts a day! Now it's getting awful close to a real project.

Dubbing the Gungans will be so hard, though, won't it? -- the bilingual Jar Jar is smarter than an accented English speaking Jar Jar. Plus there's Boss Nass to cover -- and both of them have such performance issues... Subtitles improve the Gungans in many ways, I believe. But adding English/Australian coloquialisms to their dialogue might make sense "Aye, lad, I was banished. It's grim to think of it." Erm... someone can help, I hope. That's my vote, anyway.

Dubbing Anakin might help cover some of his performance-- but that's tough work. I've been strategizing ways of capitalizing on the best of Jake Lloyd's work -- of which the best is quite good. I think GL made the mistake of trying to keep massive amounts of exposition in the movie, coming from Anakin's character. Cut a lot of it and not only does Anakin get better, but several scenes improve as well.

Good to hear from you, Trooperman. Come back soon!

Post
#165191
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time
Thank you for the PM, TM!

There's a hell of a lot of stuff there -- I have only gotten a few pages in!

Question: You often have competing versions of the same scene clipped together -- how do we know which one you're going with?

One response so far -- (aside from loving everything) -- I see a place where my suggestion got lost in translation (I think). When Anakin goes to Padme's bedroom to watch her pack there is enough material for a useful romantic scene if most of the scene is cut away. Although the notes contain many ideas for this scene (including cutting it entirely) -- I don't see the following idea:

Just use the following bit:

P:I do not like this idea of hiding
A: Sometimes we must let go of our pride and do what is requested of us
P: Anakin, you’ve grown up

End with a shot of Anakin accepting this compliment with grace and then one of Amidala finally "getting it." She's right and he knows it and he's cool enough to let it be evident -- letting it be the first moment of romance between these to. It's the "glance" -- the scene where the reluctant lover first sees something interesting in her pursuer's eyes.

I think the notes conclude that this scene should be cut -- that's why I felt like pointing out the potential again.

But I don't know if I'm reading the notes right... Am I?

Great work anyway!

Happy Holidays!
Post
#165187
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Well, InfoDroid, I was just looking at the first pages of the MagFan thread yesterday and saw how much grief he got in his initial releases -- yet his are generally accepted as the best edits around. We just have to go for our own standard and live with whatever reaction comes. There will be time to change the really important things on the 2.0 edits in a couple years

I think our standard for alien dialogue should be simply to outdo MagFan's original back-mastered foreign tracks. You've already done that. Avoid "Allah's" if it's easy. Leave 'em if it's not -- We have to pick our battles. Our method allows different passes for different emphasis -- If we get the story right, Trooperman's pass can be for his strength in aesthetics (music, alien dialogue, photo-effects, etc.). We'll have an incredible leg-up on things when it's gone past all the people here at Starkiller Ranch.

To avoid being torn to shreds on stuff that isn't ready, I advise we keep clips to a minimum and reveal only what's ready for mass consumption. Let the "shredding" occur at the level of ideas -- concepts, script, things where everyone's thoughts, opinions, pet peeves, rants and fangs are invaluable and constructive.

Have we looked at the different "Klingon-ese" dialogue from Star Trek releases (TV and movies)? There is such a wealth of alien dialogue from that catalogue that I bet there's a lot of unrecognizable alien sounding dialogue to mine. [I mean for additional characters like the Gungan, the Pod Race announcers, whatever-- not the Nemoidians who are already perfect]

Just a thought.
Post
#164960
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Following MagFan, the complete removal of his presence leaves a lot more OT feel to the goings on. Part of the problem with the PT is all the cameos from people in the OT. Jabba is a scary threat in ANH and ESB when Han Solo is a marked man. Seeing Jabba as a lazy, spoiled, unsophisticated slob in Episode I undermines that completely. It makes you wonder: "Why is Han so scared of that big slug who fell asleep during the pod-race?"

I say let him be a surprise in ROTJ.
Post
#164473
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Next Snippet of script:

This gets us from the droid ship to Naboo --

From Nute shouting for the Jedi's capture, we CUT TO:

Ext. Amidala's castle -- establishing

Int. Amidala's castle
Wide shot. Then panning wide as Palpatine speaks -- gets cut off. Amidala asks "What happened?" Cut before we pan to Tanaka--
Governor dialogue: "Communications block means-- ...Invasion!" (dialogue as is -- I'm too lazy to type it)
Wide shot -- Amidala: "The Federation wouldn't go that -- " (cut out Tanaka "checking the generator")
Cut to Tanaka standing as he finishes his next line (which we also cut) -- (Amidala finishes): "...far."
Tanaka turns as Amidala continues: "We must continue to rely on Negotiations."
Governor: "Negotiations? Etc. Where are the ambassadors?"
Cut to Amidala: "I will not condone a course that leads us to war!"
(This is a little more mature version of the scene without Tanaka's pointless interruptions and opinions).

CUT TO:

EXT. STARSHIP - establishing shot
Trick: f/x "flip" this shot so the droid ship is on Left with landing ships flying from it-- Musical sting. Only show for a second or two -- keep droid ship the focus, then cut --

INT. DROID LOADING HANGER
Qui Gonn and Obi Wan fly out of vent into hanger.
Jedi see droids loading. "We'll go with them."
"Negotiations were short."
CUT TO:

EXT. NABOO
Remaining portion of Droid loading ships flying in space -- toward planet (NOT reversed)
The Droid ships hit ground

EXT. LOADING SHIPS
Droids unload.
Droid Captain receives orders from Flunky and Nute:
"Destroy everything in your path. Cause as much destruction as possible. We will conquer this world as our own. The Republic has been a thorn in our side long enough...!"

EXT. FOREST
SF/X -- ADD SOUNDS OF BLASTERS AND EXPLOSIONS THROUGHOUT

First shot -- The Animals run from something we can't see (currently the third shot)
Second shot -- The Transports crash through the trees
Third shot -- From above, Qui Gonn runs ahead of the transports
Forth shot -- From ahead of the transport -- Qui Gonn runs toward camera
Fifth shot -- Close on Qui Gonn looking mad
Sixth shot -- Med shot of Jar Jar in the way
Seventh shot -- Close on Jar Jar panicking.
Eighth-Tenth shot -- Qui Gonn tackles Jar Jar (cut faster -- from behind Jar Jar/from behind Qui Gonn/back to Jar Jar's back as they hit the deck -- it's a tackle; they fall FAST)
Eleventh shot -- The Transport rides over them

Qui Gonn stands -- cut to a CFSS of Jar Jar standing to avoid the "flip up" and to shorten this shot. They turn to leave -- Cut away while the Transports are still near. LEAVE SOUNDS VERY LOUD -- TRANSPORTS ARE ALL AROUND.
Post
#164384
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
MTH, that’s a great script for the Cliegg Lars scene. The only difference is that I’ve edited the tail end a little differently, on a close-up of Padme. I actually liked the way this was handled in the original; before they cut to the next scene, they had a rise in the music with no dialogue and a couple close-ups. I wouldn’t want to end this scene with a dialogue; it seems too abrupt. All of the other suggestions are great, though



I just noticed this bit -- I wanted to end on the close up of Padme too -- I don't think we need to see Lars say the line "she's dead son, accept it" at all -- it looks bad and Padme's reaction is so ON and perfect for us to see AS we hear that line -- but time it so the close up lasts longer than just the dialogue, for sure. I just think the shot is actually weird coming completely after the dialogue is over -- as if it didn't bother her until we cut over to look at her.


Since I've been so awful about posting in this thread (but I want it to keep going), I think for Christmas, I'm going to PM a few of you with a link to a 20+ page word file containing my complete chronological personal notes for SOTDS. My complete battleplan. Then, I think we'll truly be on the same page. I've been withholding it because I thought it would only complicate things, but now that I think about it, this can only mean good things.

I'll be hitting CC, MTH, and InfoDroid with PM's before Christmas. Please speak up if you'd like to receive my notes as well. Be warned that they were only intended for me and they're somewhat boring/tedious/confusing to read through.

Thanks, guys!

-TM


You're welcome-- I hope you come back soon! I look forward to the file, and the battleplan.

Long live Trooperman!
Post
#164229
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Commander-- I've done a lot of editing and rough cuts can often make you want to cry. TJ's cut makes me pretty happy though and it will get leaps and bounds better. It's not as nicely sewn up as the TPM cut yet, naturally, but comparing them now is apples and oranges.

Try watching it with the sound off -- I think you'll get a better idea what's really there.

I'd say what doesn't work is more in the transitions (the appearance of the droids, the dramatic reveal of Nute) rather than the overall structure or execution.

Get those two beats to work and this opening has tons more excitement -- to me;-)

We'll see if we can't prove it. Of course, as you point out, there is always a fall-back. But let's carry the football for at least three downs before punting.
Post
#164119
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Still working on getting time to write the next bit of script. Headlines of the next portion: We meet the Gungans and they are useful to the story!

I have a way to make the Gungans do what they're supposed to at that point in the story when we meet them.

There should be a growing sense for Qui Gonn that something strange is afoot, something at a cosmic "Force" type level. That's what this movie's about -- a simple assignment for Qui Gonn turns out to have galactic importance -- on the political level and on the Jedi level.

So meeting Gungans who are just dumb symbiots with the Naboo-- and Boss Nass, a leader who is by definition "weak minded" because the force trick works on him -- it truly undermines the sense of importance this story needs.

Solution -- make the Gungans wise. Not Jar Jar, per se, but the Gungans.

Imagine: Jar Jar takes the Jedi to the underwater city. They are taken to Boss Nass.

His first line (more or less)? "The council sent two jedi? Just two?" See, he's ahead of the game.

He continues: "To handle this? Their eyes have gone blind to the living Force. Two Jedi when an army couldn't win. This is the end, the falling of the dark times. You must sense it too."

He looks at Qui Gonn. "Yes, I can tell that you do."

Confused, Qui Gonn tries to bring things to order: "A droid army is about to attack the Naboo. We must warn them."

Boss Nass continues along this new, Force embracing, wisened way. He represents the true, natural order as opposed to the beuraucratic Jedi Council. His flaw is that he's a little too resigned to fate as we meet him:

Boss Nass (more or less): "The droid ships have been here a long time. Their purpose is not what it seems, but it was already too late before they arrived. And the Naboo? They have spent all our good will. When they took our Kaiber Crystal, it was the final straw. You may go to them, if you wish Jedi. If Jar Jar owes you a life-debt, he may go with you. But you will not win. The end is near. The Gungan will face it with honor. Not with our head in the sand like the Naboo -- or the Jedi Council."


This reinforces the disturbance that Obi Wan and Qui Gonn repeatedly mention -- the rise of the Sith. When the Naboo finally reach out to Nass, he is already preparing his army to attack-- but he likes the Queen's gumption and agrees to team up with her. In the end, she gives him back the crystal and things seem to be on an upswing. He does not mention his doubts again -- in fact, he's done what it takes to save his planet from the Sith (as I don't believe the Sith ever mention attacking Naboo again, right?).

This makes the trip to Gungan city a foreshadowing device and a good set up for the Gungan massacre we plan in the third act.

Just thought I should post a little about what I'm thinking. More later...
Post
#163817
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Okay TJ-- take your time, enjoy!

The first few shots are going to take some massaging-- maybe we need another shot of droids moving, liek the one in the hanger as a bunch of droids approach Anakin's downed ship-- something to indicate the droids are responding and moving toward the Jedi before the shot of the droids in the hall.

The shot of hte finger pushing the button will have to be slowed slightly, I believe as well.

MUSIC will make all this work. InfoDroid??
Post
#163646
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
In regards to bringing out the focus on Qui-Gon, I think the story will speak for itself and we shouldn't go out of our way with odd cuts that don't look quite right. My one complaint over the first clip was the "closeup" of Qui-Gon in the cockpit. It accomplishes nothing but breaking up a nice widescreen shot and should be put back the way it originally was (IMO).


Well, that was a rough cut. None of this stuff feels natural on its own, you have to massage it. Can you imagine ANH without that awesome first close up of Leia or the first close up of Luke? It would be much less.

But beyond simply not favoring Qui Gonn, this scene has no subtext without the close-ups. It doesn't have to be where the hoods come off, it can be as they cross the room-- but somewhere, the FS version is going to favor Q and give an opportunity for a nice close up that anchors us to this old Jedi's malaise over this dopey assignment.

The shots on the ship may work better the original way, but I sense more tension in the off-center composition. I think the beauty wide shot is better after we get the med shot-- if all the action on the cut can be made smoother. I also think adding the final med shot will make a big difference so the scene goes: med. wide. med.

We'll see...
Post
#163635
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
And is there no "stow aboard seperate ships" scene with the Jedi to establish where they're going and what their plan is? Or do we not need it?

Ah yes, I like that beat-- but it will come later, after the Queen scene. I think that makes it clearer what the Jedi are getting into.

and please make sure you're keeping track of changes you make to the script after it's been posted on the site, so that we all know what's going on.


Totally. I have to send a couple edit changes to Erik, I guess. I'd like to post the change to the ship landing and to Q's dialogue that I mentioned before. I am not making any changes that don't appear on this board-- except all the double secret probation changes!


LOL! In that case, I'll have to consider it.


eggcellent. Whatever it takes, you need this to generate more shots. The first Qui Gonn scene desperately needs those close ups to anchor us to those characters. The one shot master gives them all the impact of featured co-stars. Qui Gonn is THE MAN in this edit. He needs to feel like it visually.



InfoDroid -- My PM is on now -- didn't know it was off
Hope Trooperman hasn't tried to send his notes to me yet