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MTHaslett

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13-Apr-2005
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4-Sep-2024
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524

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Post
#256120
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256120/action/topic#256120
Time
So here's a totally rough and out of date mock-up just for the ha-ha's of it:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7746/sotdroughnt5.jpg

But the painting reminds me of the great images from the very first Star Wars art-- especially like the Star Wars novelization cover. It would be great to photoshop together different concept images of characters over this image-- as if their images loomed in the sky like the OT posters for Star Wars and ESB.
Post
#256105
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256105/action/topic#256105
Time
I also like 10B.

But I wonder if there's a way to see a combo of 4 and 10B where "OF THE" is not so prominent.

SHROUD of/the
DARK SIDE

(with "DARK SIDE" BIGGER than Shroud) makes the most visual sense in this one-guy's opinion.


And if someone can give me a little advice about uploading images here, I can put up a cool/sloppy mock-up with the "Art of" image. It's nothing fancy, but it sure reminds me of an OT poster. Do I need my own web page to give my images a URL?
Post
#256054
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256054/action/topic#256054
Time
I LOVE these logos. I have to say I think a combo of #4 and #8 would be my idea of perfect-- take the top line of #4 and put it on top of the BIG bottom line of #8. Beauty. Then, maybe try slanting the whole thing.

I have to say, I like seeing both words for "STAR WARS" at the top-- to keep this from being too much like the ESB logo which had "Star" on top and "Wars" at the bottom.

Great work! I think that logo on top of the painted Clone War image from the Art of Star Wars book cover would be incredible and very OT.

*How do you upload images to these posts?
Post
#255238
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255238/action/topic#255238
Time
I'd love to see a DVD cover that carried the OT vibe that SOTD is supposed to evoke. The most "OT" piece of AOTC promo work I saw was the "Art of..." book. I saw a wicked cool set of OT DVD cases done using concept art from the movies. I think a painted-look would make the "Shroud of the Dark Side" cover look way different than the other Prequel Trilogy releases.

Something based on this, for example:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0345431251.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Post
#253003
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253003/action/topic#253003
Time
Re: the believability of the Arena sequence.
Fans can be so weird about stuff like this. I don't see any comparison between cutting an apple and opening hand cuffs. Seeing the Emperor open his own set of cuffs in Jedi does not establish that Jedis can't be cuffed. If anything, it establishes that Jedi can be cuffed, since Luke was not able to take them off himself. All of Star Wars is a pastiche of other ideas from Flash Gordon and Dune and Samurai movies and Harryhausen and a lot more. The rules are already looser than a goose when a bunch of powerless Ewoks defeat the Imperial Stormtroopers with logs and rocks and shit.

As for the trench scene, controlling things going a gazillion miles an hour is not the issue. Making a rocket or any fast moving object go off course is incredibly easy-- if you can but nudge it. That's how race car accidents and such happen. A force push in the trenches would easily wipe out any ship Vader came near-- but that's not how the movies play it.

Each fan has to make peace with the un-realities of Star Wars his own way. I can't see the issues you bring up as problems. Much more important to me was the way the arena escape felt improvised and then shot through with random action with the awful Threepio stuff being the only throughline that actually built in any concrete way. This, fortunately, is something that can be fixed.
Post
#252856
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252856/action/topic#252856
Time
In what movie do we see the Jedi unlock cuffs and lift rocks to crush giant beasts with the Force? I remember a couple movies where the greatest Jedi of all has to struggle to lift big rocks or pull an X-Wing out of the swamp.

By your reasoning the entire Death Star Trench sequence makes no sense-- why doesn't Darth Vader just force-wish all the Rebel fighters into the sides of the trench? Answer: because that ain't how it works.

If the Harryhausen homage of the arena sequence doesn't give you a thrill, then I'm sorry. But that's the reason it's there-- it's the kind of scene Lucas loves from the movies that inspired Star Wars and it's done to his taste here. I'm not thrilled with the beats of it and I look forward to the new version (where Anakin and Padme have a plan)-- but I sure get why it's there.

Did they really put these arena creatures into Happy Meals, or are you making that up?
Post
#238622
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/238622/action/topic#238622
Time
I want to say that I, for one, disagree with comments about the new music in the Obi Wan/Dukoo scene-- I find it fits perfectly and is cued beautifully by the context in which it appears. "Building up" to it wouldn't make sense, it is cued by the surprise that Dukoo brings up Qui Gonn. It has the exact tone of menace and power that the scene lacked before-- now it feels like Dukoo is actually getting under Obi Wan's skin where before it was all perfunctory.

I also find the new dialogue cuts improve the way the scene plays. It is less arch and more like dialogue. As ever, I am happily surprised by your instincts TM and await your next fantastic surprise (whatever it may be).
Post
#237087
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/237087/action/topic#237087
Time
First, I love the Dukoo/Obi Wan clip-- exactly what I'm hoping from in this edit-- an emotional version of the PT!

Second, here's my vote for that Dukoo/Anakin dialogue. See if it works:

Anakin: Your attempt on Padme’s life will cost you. Prepare to meet your destiny.
Dooku: Forget the girl. She's replaceable. Come, come. Admit it-- You enjoy killing as much as I do.
Anakin: No! (He attacks)

I'd like to combine the two "insults" we've got going here so Dukoo hits Anakin with as much as we can give him. He gets under Anakin's skin with the first (the girl's nothing to him) and then twists the knife with the second (I sense much fear in you). I agree with others who think saying "probably killed my girl" just doesn't feel right. Let it be a definite anger over a definite attempt on Padme-- we'll determine later if it succeeded (speaking from Anakin's p.o.v.).

Keep up the great work.

(By the way, I like the idea of seeing Anakin burn a little after seeing Padme fall-- but the big picture there is how he agrees to go on without her-- so the cuts should take us through that journey in his emotions. He's becoming a man and accepting Obi Wan's ways in spite of his emotions. He knows that's what will make him a Jedi. He knows that's what Padme would do. This key beat is undermined in the original cut and we need to prop it up to achieve what it is supposed to-- the climax of their love story. Now Anakin starts the movie with his emotions slipping out of control (because of his Force-connection to his mother), but he learns to control himself with Padme's help. This is one of the ways we're going to FEEL the impact of their love in this new cut -- as opposed to the original where we had to be told about their love and were never allowed to feel it.)
Post
#227198
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227198/action/topic#227198
Time
Trooperman!

What can I say? Awesome! The light saber and the day for night, the muted tones-- I just want to see more and more.

The issues I have deal with the mix-- the levels on the sound effects in the droid factory seemed off, also in Anakin's dream, and in a couple other places I didn't bother to remember because this is all temp anyway.

I think it's an interesting issue to face a new voice for Anakin-- and have everyone think it's too low. I've gotten so used to Christensen that it's like you say-- jarring to see a new one. But I'm not bothered by it very much. It's really the sound mix that makes it stand out to me-- when he's talking to threepio, the effects in the background change -- so it looks a little more like dubbing. If the mix can marry all these voices, then it'll be perfect to me.

I'm going to watch it a million more times now.

Love the Dune ships. Love the impact of the way Anakin introduces himself.

I think the dream looks (perhaps) too recognizable as ANH footage-- but it has such a big impact on the story that I'm not very worried.

Great work. Have a good break, then GET BACK TO WORK!
Post
#225167
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225167/action/topic#225167
Time
I am definitely into the Dune/Lawrence footage if it can be made to blend in. Those actual locations are sorely missed in the all-digital battle. So are the low-tech, "Original Trilogy"-style nuances like sand that kicks up around people's feet and the way real people move as opposed to animated soldiers. The added expansiveness is a good plus-- but if it makes the battle even more unfocused? Well, that's the one problem I'm hesitant about.

I have a suggestion that I don't know exactly how to impliment-- but the idea would be to introduce a mini-story that gets told through the sound-track of clone-soldiers speaking on com-link. It would echo the way com-link dialogue made the Death Star run work.

If we had a little of this:

CLONE 1: "TC17, see if you can get past that first droid line"
CLONE 2: "I think I've got it-- NOOOO!"
CLONE 3: "We lost TC17-- Mothar Squad, get over there now!"
CLONE 1: "Roger"
CLONE 3: "They're coming in on Rolling Artilery Batteries now, launch the counter-measure!"
CLONE 4: "Launching."

Whatever. Keep the tone cool and collected-- Stormtrooper-esque. But paint a picture with words that kind of lays into the background of the sequence and starts to build drama. Let the leader name a target (like the launching transports that Anakin finally helps stop) -- and write lines that get the Clones closer and closer to their target.

This added dialogue would bring the sequence a kind of "guide" which would really help shape that battle and give it a little more form. Things should be pretty tough for the clones too, I think. It would be nice to hear a lot of them die, though we'd also hear how little the remaining clones care about their fallen brothers.

Just an idea.

By the way, I vigorously vote YES for the use of Mars. I think as an inspiration to Williams, it makes the grade of being kosher. If you think it works, go for it.
Post
#220103
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220103/action/topic#220103
Time
Sounds Great, Trooperman,

I agree, the heated emotions should include some anger-- it's not just foreshadowing, but it makes sense for such young people to get hurt and mad.

I love the direction of your new line, but I wonder about the phrase-- "reeled me in" is decidely earth-bound, refering to a fishing pole with a fishing reel.

Would this work as well, without the metaphor? -- "Yes! You pulled me in knowing you would only make a mockery of me. And my life."

Just a thought--

Digging your great work as always!
Mark
Post
#207372
Topic
Info Wanted: Any Edits of the Prequels that Try to Hide Palpatine's Dual Character?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207372/action/topic#207372
Time
There's a thread called the "Starkiller Ranch Edit" about doing the whole saga, starting with Episode 1. The main thrust of that edit was to eliminate the character of Sidious from Episode 1, a strategy that dramatically improves the story. Sidious plays much better in that story as the literal "Phantom Menace" who is alluded to, but never seen. That makes the Nemoidians into more worthy villains.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how that edit happens to be doing-- I think it's hibernating for a while. The second edit in that version of the saga has it's own thread and is more lively -- "Shroud of the Darkside" will play the Sidious scene as the first time he's appeared in the Saga.

Post
#207187
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207187/action/topic#207187
Time
TM

It IS great news-- particularly for this edit and the whole "Starkiller Ranch" idea. Go for the Sept. deadline and it will turn out so much better. I have always felt your aesthetic idea of going for the original trilogy look is the best possible idea for a fan edit. I can't wait for the screen flashes and Dune footage and other touches. (I mean, I'm thrilled with anticipation -- not to rush you).

To have the OT in perfect DVD format (Episode IV will just be called "Star Wars" now-- weird) is a perfect companion to the most anticipated fan edit of ALL TIME!!!

;-)

Post
#203291
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203291/action/topic#203291
Time
Great looking clip and great update, TM!

You got me rabid to see your cut. We better solve the Jar Jar problem fast-- and I suggest going for the easiest solution that can work.

In fact, I suggest you dictate what should happen and make the Episode I team follow your lead.

Anyway, great work. I do presume you will cut in some war footage from Episode II as well, right? I think they'll cut together nice if you're at the helm.

Can't hardly wait!
Post
#197665
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197665/action/topic#197665
Time
Infodroid, TJ-- I am so sorry it couldn't come together fast enough to see you go all the way.

I am in the middle of a deal that could allow me to return in a couple weeks-- but as you know, I have been bitch-slapped by real life myself for a while. I only hope there will be the chance for a reunion if this Episode I cut finally sees the light of day.

What is the current state of the media? Do you have everything, CC?

I deeply believe in the direction this edit has come from-- Let's work out a way to see it come to a good end, even if it means pushing back the deadlines a long ways. Watching TM take his time should be some inspiration to us-- slow and steady has been his way.

What's the next move, CC?
Post
#194454
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194454/action/topic#194454
Time
TM: And finally, the bedroom scene is cut, unless the defense speaks up soon (where are you, MTH?)

***

As quick as possible -- one last shot at the bedroom scene:

(My reason to keep it, put briefly, is to show one more step in this weakly presented romance. "Girl revealing herself to boy" is an important and missing beat from this movie. Here is the only sort of natural moment they get where she says something completely personal-- something about a part of her life that has nothing to do with the main story-- it's a window into who she is. It's a big deal that she feels like sharing something personal with "little Anni" whom she knew so little about just a day or so before.)

Of course, the scene has to be good enough not to grind the movie to a frickin' halt-- so if no way to make it more interesting occurs to you then let me suggest a way that I like-- Then you can try it, toss it out, etc.

To recap: the scene has a good purpose; but the scene is clunky and lacks elegance. Solution: add elegance. I say reduce the dialogue by 1/2 or so. First, pick the best/most romantic music you can to lift this scene and carry it. Second, start the scene just after Anakin's first line and let him look around wordlessly. Let Padme pack/unpack wordlessly. He looks at the picture on the wall and half-laughs, wordlessly. She notices and they look at it together.

Then she finally says the first line: "That's when I worked for a relief group. Their sun was imploding and the planet dying..." (I'm approximating the dialogue here) She keeps talking and says the one kid's name means "sweetheart."

Then she crosses back to her bags-- but we cut this dialogue-- nothing about how they were so full of life. Cut the movement and the over the shoulder shot on Anakin so that her next line (and it could be more powerful if read as we look over the shoulder at the picture) is "...They all died."

This way it's a little more brutal-- reveals more pain in Padme and therefore more of a surrender on her part for actually sharing this painful story in an honest way with Anakin.

I believe this more natural dialogue and ragged emotion (and better music) can lift the scene to being worthy.

Then comes the decision of where to put it-- I still say it should be the first of the scenes at Padme's house. Followed by meeting the parents and discussing things over dinner and then cleaning up in the kitchen-- This ordering lifts the importance of this scene to me too. It emphasizes the Anakin/Padme relationship. Rushing right into the dinner puts a wedge between these two which doesn't support the "look out the kitchen window" shot so well that's supposed to be romantic. The dinner scene puts Anakin in a weird spot-- he has to meet all these strangers and he has to disagree with Padme in front of them-- and embarrass her. It's not romantic-- but if the bedroom scene happens first, then we feel more about the romance that lies beneath the surface.

In my mind, anyway. See what you think. Great work TM!
Post
#188321
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188321/action/topic#188321
Time
Unbelievable! Great work ID, TJ, CC, Preston and Erik! To finish so fast on a rough cut on such a massive project, over the internet, with all eyes upon you -- is incredible. I bet you didn't get to watch much of the Olympics-- but you all deserve medals!

Did you do the prologue yet? Thinking it over, if it's still up for suggestion, I think Lee is a superb choice for narrator-- a great way to work Dukoo into Episode I.

Post
#188191
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188191/action/topic#188191
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
So, you're saying to cut the bet with Watto scene before the race, then after the race leave the scene with Watto as is? And leave the scene in the house with his mother before they leave?

I still think the audience would be going, "Huh? What just happened?"


In the scene with Watto, he makes it clear that he made a deal to get the boy. What the deal was, he doesn't reiterate-- only that it depended on how the race came out and that Watto has to admit it was a fair deal.

When he sees Shmi, QG explains that he wasn't able to make a deal for the mother.

I think this gets most of the important information across. The Question is, does anyone else see the value in keeping it a secret that QG wants to take the kid away? I see it definitely as a goal to achieve-- it activates the pod race as the event that convinces QG the kid is the chosen one. His secret deal with Watto was a hedged bet-- if the boy won, then he was the chosen one and worthy of special attention.

As it is, QG telegraphs his interest and undermines the tension. Not terminally, I'll admit. But it's not as good as it could be.

If we wanted to change this, we could adjust the dialogue with Watto slipping into alien speak in order to explain the deal a little more fully when he talks to Qui Gonn. Or the dialogue from the cut "bet" scene could be moved to the latter scene.



...As to getting to a rough cut... OH MY GOD!!! FANTASTIC!!!

I've never been interested in an opening seqence before the opening-- but after seeing InfoDroid's "Ben's Hut" scene, I know he can pull it off well. My feeling is that niether ANH nor TPM felt confusing without a Lord of the Rings type opening, so I wouldn't try to fix what I thought was already working. But whenever someone has this kind of idea, I think the best way to go is try it and decide based on what is come up with. At the very least it would be a great thing for the dvd.

Good work and good luck!
Post
#186865
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/186865/action/topic#186865
Time
The timing of the Maul arrival is pretty good to me, on second viewing. I thought to eliminate all the "cutting back" to Amidala's ship, because the threats seem so hollow-- but your changes there seem good too.

You see what I'm referring to about Qui Gonn announcing his intentions of freeing Anakin. I disagree that saying he wants to free Anakin is necessary to understanding what's going on or how Qui Gonn frees the boy. If you play the scene where Qui Gonn collects the boy, it plays as a fine "catch-up" scene-- it's clear what happened without the set up. It even plays better because it tells you something you don't already know-- as opposed to the way it plays in TPM where it could actually be cut without affecting the story.

I hadn't known the time for chiming in was over-- I apologize.
Post
#186233
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/186233/action/topic#186233
Time
Funny to be in the position of heckler now-- but such has become my pitiful life.

So two quick questions about the latest chunk of script--

1. Why have so much time before Darth Maul arrives? There is no tension until he shows up-- no threat from any direction until we see him arrive. With a color change, his arrival can be made to look like it's daylight and during or just following the storm.

2. Why have Qui Gonn announce that he wants to take the boy from Watto? He's not here to rescue slaves and telegraphing that he thinks Anakin's the chosen one undermines a lot of suspense that we've got going in this cut after the talk with Boss Nass during this time of prophecy. If he wants the boy before the race, then the race is just a lot of pretty cgi without any meaning-- he already thinks the boy's special and we don't really think the Jedi will be stranded here -- so the race has no dramatic value unless we make it have one.

Just two things I know we've discussed, but got vetoed "behind the scenes" so I thought I'd ask. Like the heckler I've become
Post
#185388
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185388/action/topic#185388
Time
Haven't had time to even look in here for awhile-- seems pretty much like a lot is happening in the background somewhere.

Well, I have no way of knowing if this is in the race or not-- but I wanted to recut the race so that Qui Gonn's assessment of Anakin's powers grows as the race goes on -- this means adding close ups of him to make one or more of Anakin's incredible feats register on Qui Gonn (with the Force theme rising proudly along with his realization: this is the CHOSEN ONE!).

There was one usable close up I had in particular mind -- the one where he looks into the distance as Anakin talks to the old lady in the market. I don't think we even use this beat anymore. The background is just the blue sky so it should drop into the race pretty easily (perhaps reversed).

Best wishes! Good work!
Post
#176918
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/176918/action/topic#176918
Time
Just chiming in to say I love TM's threepio fixes!

I think more opportunities may exist to take advantage of this new and exciting characterization of threepio. This is much more in line with the "We seem to be made to suffer" threepio we meet in ANH.

I love cutting him out of TPM and only hesitate slightly at the "500 credits" to take him beat-- I wish it could be established that Anakin or Padme have some use for a protocol droid. Otherwise, it will stick out as a strange and uncharacteristic beat.

Maybe increasing Artoo's role in this exchange would help -- i.e. they take threepio to help interpret Artoo or otherwise create a more useful arrangement of droids for their mission to save Obi Wan.

Obviously, that's an SOTD issue-- but we seem to need it solved here as well.
Post
#175705
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/175705/action/topic#175705
Time
How would introducine 3P0 on the Lars farm be more appropriate than having Anakin build him? It still makes little sense (as opposed to having him be a generic Naboo droid that ended up in the adventure by accident and saved the day at some point in the third act-- that would have made the most sense. What a welcome and satisfying surprise that would have been-- to have him show up cranky and frightened, meet Artoo, help Artoo outwit some battle droids and assist Anakin -- and then have him drift back into the woodwork until Episode II).

The big question to answer for me is: In Episode II, why does Anakin show up at the Lars farm and take their droid? Why does such an important Saga character just pop up at the Lars farm?

I think the idea has potential-- but it raises those questions to me. Anyone else?