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MTHaslett

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13-Apr-2005
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4-Sep-2024
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524

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Post
#261799
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261799/action/topic#261799
Time
Incredible clips, TM!

What a different movie SOTD appears to be from AOTC. What a better movie!

Bottom line, I love it and can hardly wait for more.

Nitpicky comments: I agree with a comment that the opening dialogue of the scene might be better if it were drowned out a little more-- because I dislike the line "You know I love you like a father." It's on-the-nose and out of place. And I'm not sure I understand the last shot of a stream of smoke rising from somewhere and going somewhere-- what is it? I kind of like it, but wish I knew what it was.

I am adjusting still to the dubbed voice-- but this will be a lot easier to love than Mad Max because I love Mel Gibson's voice and am simply used to Hayden's. I will soon forget it and that will be a happy day.

GREAT WORK!
Post
#261216
Topic
Idea: Fan Edit of ROTJ
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261216/action/topic#261216
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
Someday.... Someday... Maybe we'll actually finish one of these things. lol


I know I've kept pushing back the date, but trust me that you all will be seeing SOTDS within the next couple months. This is great- 2007 is the 30th anniversary of the release of Star Wars, and this is pretty much Star Wars year for all the fan edits:

SOTDS, the Godfather-II saga, ROTJ .83 MS edition, Adywan's "Star Wars", Tellan's "Star Wars"... the list goes on and on. Maybe they could all be put in a fan-made 30th anniversary boxed set. It'd sure beat anything Lucas could come up with...



That is so damn true. Bring on 2007! If someone just whipped together "box-set" artwork, we could have that dream come true. I say "whipped together" because I have no idea how box artwork is done. Is it easy?
Post
#261215
Topic
Idea: Fan Edit of ROTJ
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261215/action/topic#261215
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
MTH, why do you always put out these outlines that make me want to edit the movie that way?!?! Gaahhh!!! DAMN you! Hahaha...

Another excellent outline, MTH. Someday.... Someday... Maybe we'll actually finish one of these things. lol


--ID


You have no idea how nice that is to hear. Damn me indeed! Without predicting any specific time, I think it's safe to say we're all too motivated to just drop these things without getting to see these ideas take shape somewhere.

I felt the ideas in my post above addressed my biggest problems with the flabby mid-section of ROTJ-- letting the Princess be missing/in danger allows the whole "meet the ewoks" sequence contain actual revelations and suspense. As it is, we're just waiting for Han/Luke et al to learn what we already know-- these teddy bears are no danger to anyone.

Plus it eliminates one of the sub-plots. Giving Leia that long scene where she's the main character getting to know Wicket is an example of the TOO MUCH OF EVERYTHING way this movie was written. Everyone gets their Main Character moments-- which results in a movie where there isn't really a main character.

This story would have worked best if it were simply Luke's story, start to finish, with everyone else playing their supporting roles as they did in ANH. My suggestions are to try to "recreate" that ideal.

Blah blah blah. I'll just put stuff up here in the hopes of getting the ideas honed down to fighting shape when something can actually be done with them. lo
Post
#261213
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261213/action/topic#261213
Time
To throw in my cheap-ass two-cents worth, I say 108 min sounds fine, but I would consider trying the Padme "pleading to the senate" scene because I believe it may work at paying off the new, tighter opening and it may be valuable to establish that she's really a senator (you know, by seeing her in the Senate).

On the other hand, if putting it in grinds things to a halt-- 108 min. is fine. We want this to be a good movie first, a good "Star Wars" movie second. If making it a "good Star Wars" movie length makes it a bad movie in general-- then what's really been gained?

Thoughts about the final kiss:

The first thing I noticed, screening it, was how un-OT the preceeding "Clone Army" marching off to war scene was. That thing is a real killer because I find that to be the most obvious CGi in the movie. It's like watching a scene from Roger Rabbit to have to pretend Palpatine and those troops are really sharing the same space. The most crippling aspect, imho, is how the camera moves around so much-- those computer made mattes allow the camera to do things that weren't possible during the OT-- so we get stuck with footage that will never match (unless Trooperman pulls off some magic). Too bad there aren't static shots of those troops and ships. I think it would all look more real and feel more OT.

I mention all that because the failings of that scene spill over into the failings of the Anakin wedding/kiss scene. I'm already in a "bad mood" so to speak, fighting to stay in the movie as it keeps doing things that take me out.

But forgetting the troops and just looking at the wedding footage, I think a solution is there. What makes th wedding/kiss so bad? It feels awkward to me. They kiss like teenagers on a date. The sequence has no grace in its cutting-- a moving shot cuts to a static shot that starts moving a fraction of a second later, then to another static shot that starts moving a fraction of a second later. Then more awkward, hesitant kissing and "meaningful" glances that convey no meaning. The result of all these bits of awkwardness make me dislike the scene for seeming to want to be more than it is. Is it just a happy wedding? Or is something brewing underneath? The awkwardness hints at something a little wrong-- but the awkwardness is the only hint.

Solution? I say, edit out the awkwardness.

FIRST SHOT: Pulling back from the sun in the mountains, then to the wide shot of the couple exchanging vows.
The priest steps away, Anakin reaches for Padme. CUT ON MOTION as his golden hand also reaches for her-- make these movements be graceful; all in one.
They move in for the first kiss-- and just after their lips touch for the first time, CUT to the droids moving and congratulating each other. Then CUT to the close-up 2 shot of Padme and Anakin kissing with sunlight behind them-- as they FINISH their last kiss (so the effect is that they had one LONG kiss -- not twenty hesitant awkward kisses).
Then as Padme and Anakin manage to separate and look at each other, let Padme look at Anakin ONCE, then CUT TO the final long shot as they turn together to look at the sunset. (the idea here is that we should be Cutting away before she awkwardly looks at his eyes, looks down, looks up, looks down and basically communicates to us "Who is this guy and what am I doing here?").

To me, that improves this final scene a lot by eliminating a lot of weird "static" that comes in because of the clumsy filmmaking/acting choices. It won't be half-so objectionable if it is simply graceful.

Them's my thoughts.

And if possible, figure out a way to make the Clone Army stuff seem to contain more still shots.

Glad to hear progress is being made, TM!
Post
#260957
Topic
Idea: Fan Edit of ROTJ
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260957/action/topic#260957
Time
Always love to hear you like an idea of mine, TM -- I have to know a lot of people are going to want the unmasking and ghosts. Maybe I would like it in this new edit-- but I have a hard time with the cloying heart-string pulling manor of the unmasking/ghosts in the original.

I suggest that any symbolism in "unmasking his father" and seeing his approving ghost is pretty damn heavy-handed. It's not exactly open to many meanings and interpretations as the best use of symbols is.

The same scenes would be as powerful, if not more powerful to me if they were handled a little harder-- no peek at the man inside the suit-- there's more powerful symbolism in that to me. There are some things about our fathers we will never understand/see even if we are able to connect with them.

Luke looking whistfully into the distance in the end is a little less manipulative and cloying to me than him looking at the approving and smiling figure of his father appearing suddenly in the same plane of afterlife/heaven as Obi Wan and Yoda. It's always bothered me somewhat that Vader can blow up Alderann, etc. and then recant on his death bed and end up as revered as Yoda and Obi Wan who were his mortal enemies all of twenty minutes ago.

I think those beats belong in "Return of the Jedi" but should maybe be made harder in "Revenge of the Jedi"?
Post
#260946
Topic
Idea: Fan Edit of ROTJ
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260946/action/topic#260946
Time
I had to duck out on the Ranch edit thread under a cloud of personal issues. Things are sorting out, but not to the point I can return full force. This thread, however, is a place I want to contribute to so that what few useful ideas I come up with can perhaps be, er... used. And ROTJ had my attention for some reason, so I'm typing up a kind of outline for a possible edit that addresses my problems with ROTJ.

I think the movie has incredible footage and some really fine moments. Unfortunately it is undermined continually by character actions and jokes which are completely off from the previous movies. The resulting tone is forgettable and disappointing-- but if some tension could be created and some seriousness brougth back...?

I have some ideas that work, I think (many have surfaced before, but I want to kind of dump them all into one place in this thread).



REVENGE OF THE JEDI:


Begin the movie with a tighter version of the arrival of Vader on the Death Star-- there's too much sense that the Empire is running into funding problems or something ("The Emperor -- wants the impossible! I can't get these stupid contractors to show up!")

Then show Luke on his way to Degobah-- while the Jabba sequence begins in his absense. Let tension build as Chewie is jailed, Leia grabbed, Han blind and jailed with Chewie-- what'll they do?

Meanwhile, Luke hears the truth from Yoda and Obi Wan and rushes back to Tatooine. Then, when the droids march up to Jabba's palace -- there's really some tension! Shortly, Luke shows up and is overwhelmed-- (hey, more tension!). Cut the jokes as he and Han are taken to the Sarlac pit-- then get the rescue underway. Give Leia a blaster effect when she kills Jabba, so this 87 pound chick isn't allowed to strangle the great Jabba the Hutt (darkening the tone a little). Get off Tatooine and rejoin the Rebel fleet (KEEP THE PACE MOVING!)

Recut the briefing to avoid the grab-ass. Get us to Endor and into the woods where Leia is shot down-- then CUT HER SCENE WHERE SHE MEETS THE EWOK. Just give us the first shots where legs walk up and poke her unconscious body with a spear (while we hear GRIM and OMINOUS MUSIC BUILD...) Then back to Luke as he reaches Han -- where's Leia? Tension builds-- we know she's in trouble! We find her helmet, her speeder-- oh no!

Then Han and Luke are captured-- by what? What are these little things? We finally see-- EWOKS who take our guys and plan to fry them. This way, even the lame "we worship gold droids" beat works. They find Leia, get free, get accepted into the tribe (much faster) and Luke talks to Leia and runs away. (Cut the Han/Leia tiff over, "You could tell him, but you can't tell me?" -- this is LUKE'S movie and that "argument" never goes anywhere anyway-- it just drags Han into saying things I would pay to have erased from my memory).

Then, manipulate the footage so that everything goes the Empire's way as much as possible for the rest of the film. The Ewoks get massacred-- none of their attempts to fight back really amount to much except distractions-- but distractions end up being enough. (In other words, cut the logs defeating walkers, the rocks knocking out stormtroopers -- emphasize Ewok death and sacrifice).

Let Chewie in the walker be the one success that turns the tide.

Then, stack the battle and the change within Vader for a little more suspense and tension-- let Luke suffer a little longer at the hands of the Emperor and keep their battle going even as Lando is about to blow the whole place sky-high.

I'd really love to cut the "take off my helmet" beat -- let Vader die looking like Vader and not Ray Milland.

But I don't know what that does to the "ghosts" in the end. I think I'd cut the ghosts too. What are they doing there? Looking for a drink? I don't know.

Lastly, though, I'd remix the final music-- using the "Yub Yub" song as "source" music played soft underneath a finale march that echoed the final march in ANH-- either using that march or a similar piece from somewhere else. Let the music really bring home that this is the end of the Trilogy/Saga.

Anyway, those are the headlines. I'm writing up a more "outline"-y type doc to post later. Can't wait to get the time to really contribute to this and/or the Ranch edits. But it's been that kind of year.
Post
#259237
Topic
Another bloody edit of TPM (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259237/action/topic#259237
Time
If you have the Naboo fighters as part of the finale, then it has to be an attempt to bring down the droid control ships-- i.e. disable the droids. The Padme/Jedi stuff on its own won't easily make any kind of sense-- especially if it means cutting out the battle at the hanger where they release the pilots so they can go destroy the droid ships (I mean, if they aren't going to destroy the droid control ships, then why bother to release a few pilots?).

Anyway, my suggestion is to use some footage of the Gungans being herded around by the droids as if it were "concentration camp" footage. Then use the footage of the droids failing and flopping at the Gungan prisoners' feet to illustrate the effect of Anakin's attack.

This would mean keeping a few Gungans alive and establishing the "camps" somehow so cutting to them makes a little sense. But it allows the battle to be moved up front and allows the Anakin vs. Droid ship sequence to makes sense and carry story weight.

I love the idea of moving the Gungan massacre into the opening. It will generate sympathy for Jar Jar that will make the whole movie more watchable! It makes that battle more exciting and juices up the opening of the movie. It strengthens the bad-guys and puts the Queen and Jedi in more jeopardy as the droids take over her city. I think this is a major breakthrough, on par with the idea of eliminating Darth Sidious from the movie (which I consider another vital improvement, clarifying who the badguys are in this movie and allowing it to flow properly. A lot of discussion on that point is in the "Starkiller Ranch" thread.) It even streamlines the ending sequences in a good way -- provided we make a bigger "meal" of the space-fight sequences. My opinion is that the space battle is vital to making the ending really work-- for the "Star Wars" feeling to be there, that space battle needs to be built up and tied well to the story. It should be Anakin's big moment in the movie.

If we can get this to happen, and have Anakin's victory tie in to his sensing of Qui-Gon's demise-- then the downbeat ending-- This could finally be a really good movie! It's a lot of work, but someone, some day has got to do it.
Post
#257078
Topic
Star Wars: REBORN - The Complete Saga (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257078/action/topic#257078
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
Thanks, Mark! Nice to see ya. I like the work you've been doing for Trooperman's "Shroud of the Dark Side" logo and posters.


Yeah, me too. Forgot to mention that, but those posters you're cooking up are incredible. Thanks so much.




Thanks, both of you!

I think an OT style poster would suit this project too-- the original Godfather posters had similar lay-outs. Maybe I can put together some cool elements for you, Steve.
Post
#256791
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256791/action/topic#256791
Time
Oh! Due to some peculiarity of my mind I NEVER understood that beat. Once we got to Dukoo's kabal of interplanetary losers I just let the story collapse in my mind. They entertain themselves and their bug pals with the execution, but that goes poorly-- then the Jedi show up. By this time I guess I just stopped really keeping score. I guess if Amidala wasn't (almost) assasinated, then Gunray would've gone with the Republic against Dukoo? What is the ultimate disposition of Gunray in this Saga? I realize now I never paid strict attention to that whole throughline. Ay-yi-yi.

I REALLY like this idea of simplifying the Clone Army mystery. Things get very convoluted in AOTC.
Post
#256781
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256781/action/topic#256781
Time
Those are all great points. I have a feeling you're right. The "mystery of the clone army" is counter intuitive and becomes a plot-hole in retrospect (as well as a let-down when I recall how cool the "clone wars" sounded when Luke mentioned them in ANH). The Republic orders the army. The army comes. Bam-bam. Makes sense. Obi Wan pretends to be there to review the troops because he's hunting Jengo. It makes simpler sense this way-- the mystery is simple: who is trying to kill Padme?

By the way -- who is trying to kill Padme? Who hired Jengo to get her? Palpatine - right?
Post
#256573
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256573/action/topic#256573
Time
Klokwerk --

I appreciate what you're saying and see the problem you're talking about with making the top bar too thin. But I went ahead and mocked it up that way using your .gif -- just to be sure no one is going to like it (because I still kind of like it). Whatever the case-- I'm grateful to have you here and love all the logos you've done. Basically, it's a win-win situation since any of yours would be fantastic.

You sure we can't do something like this?:
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/9717/sotdstesths4.jpg

Realizing the "S" is no longer the same font as everything else, can something like this work? Probably not.
Post
#256495
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256495/action/topic#256495
Time
Originally posted by: Dantha Fodder
Originally posted by: GoldStone9
Do you mean high res for the artwork or the poster?


Either, or. Whichever. I'd like to play around with the artwork in photoshop.


Great News! Good luck! I found all the elements for the credits and "Saga Continues" stuff by googling Empire Strikes Back poster images. There's not much out there by way of high-res images of the credits/studio logos and stuff-- but there is some. This might be useful: Fox Logo
Post
#256461
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256461/action/topic#256461
Time
Thanks for the compliments-- I really hope someone who knows photoshop will do a better version of all this stuff someday.

The artwork came from the "Art of Star Wars: Attack of the Clones" and I don't think it's McQuarry. I don't know who it is, but I like it.

Here's a version that incorporates the kind suggestions made here.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2747/sotdteaser2brj1.jpg

Edit to add: sorry, no hi-res version available. This was created as posted. I hope this fast-and-dirty draft can be a guide to someone who knows how to create a hi-res version (cause I don't). :-(
Post
#256243
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256243/action/topic#256243
Time
The logo and artwork can contribute a lot to the concept of this fan edit-- the idea of an "OT" version of Episode II. The logos that have bars seem far more like the title of a movie to me. Logos without the bars, such as 9a, look like they could be the logo for a toy or a book, but not so much another movie on par with "The Empire Strikes Back." The graphic weight of the bars enhances the title. (The logo on my mock-up is one of the first provided by Klokwerk-- one of the reasons I called it "out of date." But the color matched that piece of art perfectly, so I used it. It's nice, but Klokwerk has produced better ones since then).

I think a cleaned up version of Trooperman's artwork will be perfect-- easy to read, substantial, and similar to (but unique from) the other OT title logos. De-emphasizing the words "of the" helps get across the poetic image of a shroud descending from the nebulous "Dark Side." Plus, it comes from the guy who's doing all the work in the first place. What more could anyone ask for?
Post
#256157
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256157/action/topic#256157
Time
Goldstone9: It would be great to have a hi-res version of the AOTC concept art- yes please!


I don't think I understand THX's comments about the logos because in Trooperman's versions, "Dark Side" is clearly bigger than "Shroud".

As for the stacked "of the" being different than Jedi-- that's a good thing! All the OT logos were unique. This one should also have quirks if it is to truly fit.

"Return of the Jedi" is a very solid concept which is easily conveyed by those words. "Shroud of the Dark Side" is a poetic and vague phrase that has no concrete imagery at all. So the layout of the words has to help convey the meaning-- taking emphasis off "OF THE" makes it just a little easier to grasp what the title means.

Just my thoughts, anyway.