Hardcore Legend

I saw the film again tonight and it was better this time. Not looking for flaws and Tarkin and not focusing on who might die, the film was even better.

K2SO might be one of my favorite Star Wars characters now.

Originally, I thought more of JEJ’s lines sounded old and tired but in reality the only one that falls really flat on second viewing is “prepare a boarding party”. It is an easy fix by slowing it down a tick and removing higher end sound but I wonder why they left it like that.

I’m also thinking that Vader originally filled Tarkin’s role in large part in the first cut. The “immense power” line by Krennic that is now gone sounds like an argument they had about the power of the battle station. When Disney gave them more money to add Tarkin, I wonder if the Vader on Mustafar scene was added to give Vader screen time he had just lost.

Was Vader’s disappointment in the destruction of Jedha because of Krennic’s failures twinged with Vader’s attachment to the Force still? Was his frustration in part because this old shrine was destroyed? It kinda felt that way.

Did anyone else feel they were trying to contrast the radiation sunset on Scarif with the Binary Twin sunset? The rising musical cues seemed similar.

LexX said:

And now that I think of it, his character didn’t have anything to do in the movie really.

He sent the hero on their journey. His fate pushed the hero forward.

DominicCobb said:

Hardcore Legend said:

I actually think this should have been two films. I think all the exposition they tried to cram in to get you backstory in the first 45 minutes should have been in a separate film, allowing us to jump off with the rescue mission of Erso and the trip to Jedha. Jyn’s childhood just didn’t fit in the film and I think it made it seem like they couldn’t find a better way to tell you how the Erso’s got to this point.

God two films… and here I am just starting to wonder if they ever really gave much of a reason for even the one existing (beyond it being really cool and fun to watch).

See, I agree with this also. I told a friend immediately after seeing it that I loved it but it was also completely pointless. It was so self-contained that it created these new characters and then wiped them away. What it left were people we already had that didn’t need this fleshing out. Yes, it was great to see Tarkin be brilliant but we already knew he was from Cushing’s performance. Yes, it was great to see Vader in his temple and in attacking people but we already knew Vader was badass. It didn’t grow the universe any more than those two hours we saw. It cut off any potential branches it could have.

Although, it did give us a family that now rivals the Skywalker’s as the worst for the galaxy.

But I really did love this film, much more than TFA.

digitalfreaknyc said:

Hardcore Legend said:

I actually think this should have been two films. I think all the exposition they tried to cram in to get you backstory in the first 45 minutes should have been in a separate film, allowing us to jump off with the rescue mission of Erso and the trip to Jedha. Jyn’s childhood just didn’t fit in the film and I think it made it seem like they couldn’t find a better way to tell you how the Erso’s got to this point.

Gee…I wonder how they could have gotten that exposition done. What would have been a better way to tell you the backstory you needed to know before a Star Wars movie started? 😃

Yeah, something along the lines of:

A galaxy in terror! The Empire’s grip on the galaxy has never been tighter. Those who stand opposed to their tyranny, the Rebel Alliance, have learned the Empire has developed a new super weapon under the guidance of scientist GALEN ERSO.
.In a race against time, the Rebellion must find Erso’s lost daughter in hopes she has information on his work. Following the murder of her mother by DIRECTOR KRENNIC, the young ERSO was raised by the extremist SAW GUERRERA.
.The Rebellion have sent their best spy to track her down to rejoin her with GUERRERA and her father as she may be their LAST HOPE…

would have allowed them to cut out those earlier scenes. They weren’t bad but like people have said, it felt like they knew they had to tell that part of the story but didn’t have a clean way of doing it. So, we get a bunch of quick cuts to other worlds that felt out of place.

I actually think this should have been two films. I think all the exposition they tried to cram in to get you backstory in the first 45 minutes should have been in a separate film, allowing us to jump off with the rescue mission of Erso and the trip to Jedha. Jyn’s childhood just didn’t fit in the film and I think it made it seem like they couldn’t find a better way to tell you how the Erso’s got to this point.

I liked how they intercut Rebel pilots from ANH into this film, with the nod to needing a new Red 5.

I wonder if Vader’s final scene will play out for us like Yoda’s scene in ATC did, it was kinda cool to see the old Jedi in a saber battle but in subsequent viewings that appeal wore off.

jedimasterobiwan said:

Hardcore Legend said:

jedimasterobiwan said:

Hardcore Legend said:

jedimasterobiwan said:

I wonder how long until rebels leads into rogue one if it leads into rouge one?

In the Rebel Recon for tonight’s episode, they said that when they return on January 7th Rogue One will have been released and the parts of Rebels that you eventually see in the film or that tie in will begin to be talked about.

can you be a little clearer

They made it seem they’ve been holding back plot points as to not interfere w/ Rogue One.

i was talking about the tie. what tie in?

https://youtu.be/_DdvEeemqPI?t=5m37s

jedimasterobiwan said:

Hardcore Legend said:

jedimasterobiwan said:

I wonder how long until rebels leads into rogue one if it leads into rouge one?

In the Rebel Recon for tonight’s episode, they said that when they return on January 7th Rogue One will have been released and the parts of Rebels that you eventually see in the film or that tie in will begin to be talked about.

can you be a little clearer

They made it seem they’ve been holding back plot points as to not interfere w/ Rogue One.

jedimasterobiwan said:

I wonder how long until rebels leads into rogue one if it leads into rouge one?

In the Rebel Recon for tonight’s episode, they said that when they return on January 7th Rogue One will have been released and the parts of Rebels that you eventually see in the film or that tie in will begin to be talked about.

After watching ‘Visions and Voices’, it now exists in canon that Maul knows Obi Wan Kenobi lives and is on Tatooine. The two ‘known’ remaining Jedi also know that Obi Wan lives but only know that it is on a desert planet with two suns. They have made it their mission now to find Master Kenobi before Maul does to warn him. I can’t imagine that if they planned on having a Obi Wan Kenobi spin-off film, they wouldn’t have wanted to use this plot point (Maul vs Kenobi Part 2) in the film. With the third Star Wars spinoff not happening for years, this will either happen on Rebels or Maul will never reach his goal of finding Kenobi.

Sorry, I had to put that all in one paragraph to avoid spoilers.

Is it ok if I talk about the events of the episode that just aired tonight?

Because the events seemed like a big deal to the Star Wars universe leading up to ANH (and potentially future spinoff films)

Ronster said:

Liam Nissan

Live stream at 6pm GMT on Twitter 1pm ET

https://twitter.com/i/live/798701411626139648

So is he the Altima power in the galaxy?

Jokes aside, the three characters from TPM that would “break the Internet” are QGJ, Jar Jar and Maul. Referencing TPM and not the entire PT makes it seem like those characters were featured more in that film.

That hooded character in the 1st trailer still has me puzzled. Based on Maul’s current Rebels storyline, I could see him actually making it to the DS but being that big a part of the story would take over the narrative.

As far as Leia and the droids, I could see the droids being with Bail on Yavin midway through film and he sends them to meet with Leia, who we see on transmission at the end. Anything more from her would be distracting, in my opinion.

TV’s Frink said:

Too bad the joke only rated a 4/10.

Even I get bored sometimes. Do you think I had a choice?

TV’s Frink said:

The J.J. commentary was a good listen. I only wish they had included another person, I always find it more entertaining when it’s a conversation rather than a solo-effort.*

*No need to make the Han joke unless you can come up with something really good.

Why include anyone other than J.J. since he’s the brains, sweetheart.

4/10

TARKIN!

This film must bounce around with the timeline/not follow the main character throughout for it to be that confusing about where the characters are located. Otherwise, outside of the initial scene, every preceding scene should give you context clues.

Seems lazy .

DuracellEnergizer said:

Swazzy said:

Do the ring theorists specify if “You’ve taken your first step into a larger world” is supposed to rhyme with “You catch on pretty quick”? If so, does this reveal Lucas’ original intention to have Ric Ollie be the mentor figure to Anakin throughout the trilogy?

Oh God, I hope so.

Humor aside, I think that Palpatine’s comments to Anakin opening his mind up to a larger world or something like that is the parallel on the timeline/in content that ring theorists believe.

ZkinandBonez said:

Hardcore Legend said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Tobar said:

I’m in the middle of this year’s 2016 Turkey Day MST3K marathon so I can’t look it up but I believe the Maul eyes were from the animatic that Spielberg made to choreograph the chase on Utapau.

Spielberg?

Roger Spielberg, noted animatic director.

Ah, right. I though that maybe you just accidentally wrote (Steven) Spielberg instead if Lucas.

http://movieweb.com/steven-spielberg-helped-out-on-revenge-of-the-sith/

ZkinandBonez said:

flametitan said:

ZkinandBonez said:

(Of course the more blatant excuse is that Luke’s the main character. This kind of logical nitpicking probably wasn’t that much of a concern for either filmmakers or viewers back in the 70’s.)

But of course. However, thought experiments like these can be fun.

I agree (I probably should have phrased that last sentence a little better).

These kinds of explanations are also examples of why it’s so nice to have an EU. It can help explain the more logical details of something which your suspension of disbelief can handle while watching a film for the first time, but which might get a little weirder as you get older and start to really think about it.

I get that the EU can ‘clean up’ something like this but I have to believe that the true answer to this is simply that ILM did not have the time or resources to show an all-out assault on the battle station.

Again, it comes back to Rogue One and what they explain/don’t explain. From the trailers I have seen, this first assault on the DS/Scarif looks massive. I always covered up for the old SFX (the scarcity of ships) during the DS battle as the Rebellion having been decimated in an earlier battle or simply being in their infancy. Through the newer materials (Rebels/Rogue One), it appears the Rebel Fleet has been running for awhile.

It wasn’t until the other night I actually thought about how many pilots survive the DS Assault and counted the pilots in the ceremony. Now I feel like an explanation would be nice.

ZkinandBonez said:

Tobar said:

I’m in the middle of this year’s 2016 Turkey Day MST3K marathon so I can’t look it up but I believe the Maul eyes were from the animatic that Spielberg made to choreograph the chase on Utapau.

Spielberg?

Roger Spielberg, noted animatic director.

When will Ady begin work on the ‘Revisited’ version of this thread. I think there is a lot he can do with pages 1280 - 1305 that will really help it match up with newer threads on this forum!

ZkinandBonez said:

ray_afraid said:

flametitan said:

Hardcore Legend said:

The Battle of Yavin (according to SW Wikia) involved 30 Rebel starfighters. All but 3 were destroyed.

I counted roughly 25 pilots (plus Luke Skywalker)in the briefing room.

The medal ceremony featured at least 45 pilots celebrating.

Does that mean that the Rebellion had around 70 pilots for the Battle of Yavin but only used less than half?
Did they all not have ships?
If there were limited number of ships, why did they let a moisture farmer who no one had seen fly a ship up until that point take one of the precious few starships they had?
If they had plenty of ships, why did they send the guy who just walked in the door with no previous experience on the most important mission of their young rebellion’s existence?

Is there an official explanation as to why Red and Gold Squadron were essentially wiped out but there were probably one or two more squadrons at the Yavin ceremony that went unused?

To add on to this, what little we do hear about his piloting ability implies he should’ve been killed during the mission. He doesn’t seem to have an inkling of understand how to fly anything that wasn’t atmospheric (“I thought you said this thing was fast, why don’t you outrun 'em?”), let alone combat ready (“what’s that flashing?” when looking at the shield output. Even if his little T-16 had a similar layout to an X-Wing, I doubt that it had anywhere near same sort of sensory equipment)

All we have to go by with for his own flying ability up to that point is him boasting about his ability, and self boasting doesn’t mean much. It makes you wonder why Luke was brought along, if you’re not looking at it from a sense of narrative, in which case: Who else would you have as our PoV character in the climax?

This is why I wish our heroes weren’t wearing the same clothes during the briefing scene as they were the rest of the film. It would make it seem that a bit of time had passed and Luke could have had a a little training with the X-Wing. This is what happened in my mind. We don’t know how fast the DS moves, so it wouldn’t create any problems if Luke and CO. were on Yavin a couple days before the battle.

In the the 1981 radio play adaptation of ANH Biggs puts Luke through a flight simulator test which qualifies him to join the DS attack.

Ok, so he passes his driver’s test. But he passes over the other 45 or so experienced pilots that (eventually) show up? I’m hoping/guessing this will be addressed in RO as to where these pilots were/weren’t used as the DS1 bears down on Yavin.

ray_afraid said:

Frank your Majesty said:

MathUser said:

Seriously, Vaders breathing didn’t get explained in movies till 20 years after there was 3 movies of him breathing. So what’s the big deal that Grevious coughs? Anyway, that was explained in the first clone wars cartoon. I checked out the dvd and saw it myself. Mace windu crushes his chest with the force.

I probably wouldn’t mind Grevious’ coughing, if Vader hadn’t had it before. Two villains with the same kind of breathing problems is simply unoriginal.

See, before I saw the movie (or maybe early into my viewing of it), I liked the cough. I thought Grevious was gonna be Maul on life support with robot legs. Kind of a beta-Vader that didn’t work as well yet. I would have kinda liked that. But, no.

This would have been a good payoff for the 3 films. Having Maul return, Obi Wan become obsessed with abandoning whatever his main mission was in order to track down ‘a ghost’ who killed his master, all while Palpatine uses this opening to end the war and turn an Anakin who has no Obi Wan to confide in would have given the story more importance. It would have increased Obi Wan’s guilt for the galaxy falling apart and his padawan becoming the 2nd most evil being in the galaxy.

Instead, because of Maul’s death in TPM, we are stuck with 2 subsequent fill-in villains that never seem very important.

The Battle of Yavin (according to SW Wikia) involved 30 Rebel starfighters. All but 3 were destroyed.

I counted roughly 25 pilots (plus Luke Skywalker)in the briefing room.

The medal ceremony featured at least 45 pilots celebrating.

Does that mean that the Rebellion had around 70 pilots for the Battle of Yavin but only used less than half?
Did they all not have ships?
If there were limited number of ships, why did they let a moisture farmer who no one had seen fly a ship up until that point take one of the precious few starships they had?
If they had plenty of ships, why did they send the guy who just walked in the door with no previous experience on the most important mission of their young rebellion’s existence?

Is there an official explanation as to why Red and Gold Squadron were essentially wiped out but there were probably one or two more squadrons at the Yavin ceremony that went unused?

DuracellEnergizer said:

What makes General Grievous one of the worst characters to be associated with Star Wars ever?

1. His name

2. His voice

3. His cough

4. His “spider arms”

5. His patented windmill lightsaber attack

6. His utter dearth of real characterization

7. The amount of screentime he has in TCW

8. All of the above

#3 and #6. Everything else probably can be overlooked but the cough for no explained reason and the fact that nothing about his character was explained makes him just awful.