Hal 9000

Unrelated: If we are talking about the novelizations as books without respect to anything else, just them in isolation, I’d say ROTS was far better than TFA.
I like the broad story, but the whole PT was brought about with compounding bad decisions.

For me, my edits are the definitive PT. And the novelizations are sort of an expanded version, so I can still have all the extra and different stuff to consider, as a separate incarnation of the story. Sort of like the book vs. movie if relationship of the Space Odyssey series.

I think what some are getting at is that Luke as a macguffin feels tacked on compared to something like Spock in The Search For Spock. We get the map to get the ball rolling, but SKB takes over the show as the new macguffin halfway through the movie without being set up beforehand. It came across to me as somewhat arbitrary, and didn’t feel like an organic part of the story.
Not sure whether introducing it earlier would help, or tying it more closely into the Luke thread.
SKB is the thing that stuck in my craw the longest coming out of TFA.
Then again, I remember that the Search For Spock also had a tacked on, rehashed doomsday device, didn’t it.

Fascinating.

dahmage said:

Hal 9000 said:

Is it bad that the perceived racism enhances my enjoyment of TPM? I make a drinking game out of it.

not at all.

Oh, thank the heavens.

It’s too bad they apparently felt they couldn’t borrow the Sun Crusher wholesale from the old EU when making TFA, or we’d have been in for a more straightforward and less utterly implausible transhyperspace doomsday device.

Is it bad that the perceived racism enhances my enjoyment of TPM? I make a drinking game out of it.

Any story changes you have in mind?

SilverWook said:

I guess no one here went to the marathon leading up to TFA last December to see which versions were being run?

I did not want the last thing I saw before TFA to be Hayden’s ghost. I can endure sitting through the '97 SE if I have no other choice.

I’ve been told I have a Talmudic knowledge of Star Wars.

If anyone going to the Kansas City show wants to do a meet up at the event, let me know.
I’ll think about going, but I’m not sure.

If it won’t work to leave the “reveal” of Han being Kylo Ren’s father until the bridge scene, why not just simply remove Snoke’s relevatory line early in the film? There are plenty of clues throughout that we will understand, without the abrupt drop. Han says to Leia that he saw their son, etc.

Boss Nass is more offensive anyhow, am I right?

That would be too sensible. It really is supposed to be his real name.

Lord Haseo said:

Well technically she could have gone back to Jakku after everything but chooses to go to Luke to start her training. Also in STAR WARS Luke was pretty much forced to take his voyage after his Aunt and Uncle were killed seeing as how there was nothing for him.

And sarcasm is hard to gauge in 2016 m8. I just assume everyone is serious now.

She went to Ireland to find Luke after the moment where she accepted her call. Luke also refused his call in Ben’s hut, and was reluctant until his family was killed. They share the refusal and reluctant acceptance of the call.
Sarcasm around here can be tough, just felt the need to clarify.

I think he was clearly being sarcastic. I think his point was that she was thrust into the situation against her will, and that moment (sarcastically) might as well have been the saber pushing her forward yet again.
Seriously, though, that’s supposed to be the moment she accepts her calling. Prior to that she refused the call by wanting to stay on Jakku and fleeing Maz’s castle.

JEDIT: Maybe, just maybe, someday my phone will let me post without horrible typos of spelling or grammar. I’d kill for Tapatalk integration.

“You underestimate my STUPIDNESS.”

I think the lava duel is great. I was expecting the final lines to include, “There is something I should tell you…” backflips away “I have the high ground.”

My ranking isn’t too different from the norm. However, I’m going to use my edits of the PT films in place of the originals.

ESB - Pure cinematic genius; could watch any time
ANH - Groundbreaking cinematic joy, only very slightly hindered by a dip in pace partway through
ROTJ - Fun and exciting, if a bit juvenile, conclusion to the trilogy featuring a nice subversive subplot of the redemption of the villian
TFA - Fun ride to restart the franchise and set things up going forward, though lacks the weight of the prior stories to an extent; very similar to Trek '09 in that respect, and it’s evaluation will largely depend on how the subsequent films go
COD (Ep1) - Stylized opening to the prequel trilogy with stilted, dry performances and directing; has all the trappings of a Star Wars film with an inescapably boring bent
LOE (Ep3) - Downbeat and somber ending to the ostensibly tragic PT, which is still a chore to get through, with everything falling quickly into place as if the author ran out of time
TAS (Ep2) - Awkward middle film with little in the way of an independent story, plagued by bad ideas and awkward acting/directing

If you’re up for it, I still recommend reading the novelizations of the prequels in place of watching the films.

Yeah, and I am hoping Episode 8 delves into her inner conflicts and fears ala the ‘dark side cave.’ JJ and company make her out to be mysterious, so I hope that’s actually followed up on, and it’s not another Sifo-Dyas situation.
I do really like Rey, and hope we get to see a different side of her in 8, where she has room to grow and be challenged. And maybe some details that will retroactively make TFA’s depiction of her make more sense.

Yes to both. Ric was the chosen one all along. I’m still hoping an elderly Olie pops up in the ST.

I’d predict the film ends with the lead character(s) sacrificing their life/lives to beam the plans to Leia.
I can imagine seeing ANH directly after this, and screaming at Luke as he casually takes his time with R2, and the mission is delayed as it rests just with them.

BmB said:
If not for Rey’s annoying “I don’t need no help from a MAN” attitude Finn would be little more than a Gary Stu counterpart. His ability to fight competently with a lightsaber without any training or force sensitivity at all is insane.

There is no correlation. It is not because she’s a woman. It’s because she’s a mary sue. However, conversely it is highly likely that she was written to be a mary sue because she’s a woman. The current political climate is such that any character flaw on a female lead that is beyond superficial is likely to be seen by those who like to be outraged as a direct attack on women. And we all know hollywood does not take risks like that.

Criticism of these shallow characters is likely to be seen as an attack on women too, for some reason. In a lot of ways it’s perfect marketing ploy. You can’t criticize the film because the leads are oppressed minorities, and you especially cannot criticize those characters. If I say “Harrison Ford was sleeping through it.” you won’t bat an eyelid. If I say “Rey is a Mary Sue and Boyega can’t act” I’m a racist and misogynist. Or what?

This is more or less what I was getting at. I’m glad for the likable leads who aren’t just white guys, and I think the meaning and impact of making that decision would have been more powerful if they weren’t hypercharged JJ Abrams characters who are übercomletent and excellent at everything.

EDIT: For the record, Anakin in TPM comes close to being a Mary Sue. I can think, though, of a scenes en route to and on Coruscant that depict him as out of his element and doubting himself. But I’d submit him as having the same qualities, more of less, that I am picking out of Rey.
Also, if you’ve seen Plinkett’s video about JJ’s Star Trek '09, it’s similar to his critique of how Abramd pumped the characters up to the degree that they’re all supergeniuses. But the lead few characters have clear flaws that are addressed in the story. Maybe Rey will too, in the broad scheme of things across the whole trilogy, but I felt this was underwhelming in TFA in isolation.

Bingowings said:

John Doom said:

*deleted

^THIS

ALLOL
I took this to be an endorsement of not posting, and/or biting our tongues.

Looked almost as awful as Dooku’s digital double.

My phone makes interacting with quotes difficult, but Lord Haseo, my point about Rey is that the film gives me the impression that she is awesome at everything, and hardly makes any mistakes or has any flaws. It’s just my opinion, of course, and I do really like her. I felt myself empathizing with her, which gives TFA a huge leg up on the prequels.
And my comment about people disagreeing being objectively wrong, that was obvious sarcasm.

AOTC sucks, but I’m interested in discussing similar and opposite opinions. Anything else just seems antithetical to the purpose of a forum.

TV’s Frink said:
But if you think… you’re objectively wrong.

This is the sort of unhelpful garbage I’ve been seeing lately. And not just here and there, but militant daily efforts that add up to a larger sentiment of inhospitability.

I have issues with Rey’s character. I dislike how she seems to be so strong and capable right out the gate. In ANH, Luke comes across as kind of an idiot, and only later with training grows.
You might point out that he destroyed the Death Star by opening up to the Force with little prior instruction. But Rey shows up able to pilot the Falcon through an escape that would make Han wince, a ship she strongly implied to never have flown before, as well as do things via the Force that Luke took years to discover.
And if I’m playing by your standards, this opinion has been very prevalent following the release of the film, so you must be objectively wrong for disagreeing.

Change her to male and none of this is any different.