FanFiltration

SilverWook said:

I seem to recall much gnashing of teeth elsewhere about that curious error when the UE DVD came out.

Given how the studios sometimes grab whatever reels seem to be handy without really checking the contents, I'm surprised nobody ever released the ABC tv cut by mistake. ;)

I want to see that O.H.M.S.S. ABC T.V. abomination so badly! It was out in the torrents a few years ago as a faithful fan reconstruction, but somehow I missed getting hold of it. Yet, I do have the soundtrack audio around someplace, so I have heard it at least.

Here is something odd about the U.E. edition of "O.H.M.S.S." I just noticed as I was synchronizing the audio from the different versions together.

When Bond is captive in the cable car mechanism room at Blofeld's hideaway, we see him time the stoping and starting of the cable with his watch. On the U.E., there is an extra shot of the cable car pulling into a station. This is WRONG! An obvious continuity error from the approach shot of the cable car that had just been shown to us. Also, because this has been inserted, it completely messes up the timing of the cable that is still moving in the next shot with Bond. It does not belong there!

As you see the cable car approach the tower station, you can see that the completely exposed tower platform does not match the enclosed one we see in the added station clip. Also, there is one of Blofeld's guards standing at the station platform in the approach shot, but he is missing in the added station shot.

It is not on the laserdisc, or the S.E. DVD.  It sticks out horribly.  The shot is at 1:24:48 on the U.E.

Chewtobacca said:

FanFiltration said:

Here are some comparisons from the different laserdisc versions of "Goldfinger".

Out of the three, the Connery collection consistently looks the best.  The colors on the Criterion Collection look really odd to me.

Yes they do. I think I agree with you. The 1989 series / Connery Collection is my choice for preservation sources too. 

SilverWook said:

I'm pretty sure the Region 1 UE DVD has the mono mix, because that's what I listened to!

Bond fans in Region 2 did inexplicably get stiffed on it though.

You are 100% correct. The R1 of O.H.M.S.S. does have the mono, just not lossless PCM. 

captainsolo said:

That confirms my suspicions. GF and TB SE DVDs come from their respective THX box sets. The others are straight from their home video telecines.

I'm not sure about "O.H.M.S.S." S.E. DVD being from the same source as the laserdisc. The 1989 laserdisc has around 25 seconds more footage then the 2000 Special Edition DVD.  There is also some music score alterations on the S.E. DVD during the safe break in scene.  The 2007 Ultimate Edition restored that footage, but did not include the original mono mix of the film.

A very good info page on the different home video versions of "O.H.M.S.S."

can be found here > http://www.zetaminor.com/dvd/james_bond_dvd/james_bond_guide_3_ohmss.htm

THX Laserdisc - Unmodified

THX Laserdisc - Modified by FanFiltration

S.E. DVD - unmodified

I did some basic adjustment tests...

After doing some more tests, it looks like the THX laserdisc box set of "Goldfinger" and the Special Edition DVD are the same exact source. The SE DVD is just a tad bit darker, but the image information is exactly the same.

S.E. DVD

THX Laserdisc

captainsolo said:

Why is the Criterion color so different?

I have a feeling that it all has to do with the original source for the digital copy.  I bet the Criterion version came from some archive print that was sent out by MGM/UA to festivals and special showings of the film over the years. The type of print damage and film tears seen within the film seems to back this theory up. When the Criterion Collection started (late 80's), a letterbox release of a film was a very new and untested marketing gamble for the home market. The thing that might have been an issue is that Criterion was just leasing the rights to distribute the film. MGM most likely sent them a festival type print that Janus films (owner/partner with Criterion) had transferred to digital themselves.  I don't think much effort was made to unearth the best of best prints of films in the early days. For another example of this, take a look at the horrendous print of "Let it Be" that U.A. sent to Magnetic Home Video Corporation for their leased edition of that film.   When MGM/U.A. saw how well the home video market was doing, and also saw how well received the Bond films had been for Criterion, they must have decided to begin distributing their films themselves. It must have been at this time that a newer digital copy was made by MGM/U.A. from a source closer to the negative for their Deluxe Letter Box Series of Bond films in 1989. The 1989 disks sure are not from the Criterion source as you can see. I think the film must have looked closer to the Criterion version when it was out in the Cinema though. 

___

Edit:

Here is something I never knew about the "Goldfinger" Ultimate Edition DVD. It seems to be missing some frames. The missing frames are located at the 1:17:10 mark right after Oddjob passes the turn to the airport. I will have to look at the Special Edition and THX DVDs to see if they are also missing from them. The Criterion laserdisc has the frames intact.

A Letter from Lowry Digital from another site:

Thanks for your kind attention to “Goldfinger”. We’re very proud of the work we do.
MGM made all of the creative decisions relative to the Bond library (as do all our restoration clients). We invented, and provide, the toolset to accomplish the restorations to the taste, and under the guidance of, our clientele. In the case of “Goldfinger” we were provided with original negative, which we digitized prior to the actual restoration work. I cannot say if the negative was somehow altered prior to scanning and since other versions were released.
We’ve had some interesting feedback about the Bonds. In one case, it was observed that we changed a scene from previous telecine transfers when in fact previous issues contained a telecine fix that was not in the original negative. In some cases we were expressly directed not to change errors in principal photography because audiences were familiar with, and would prefer the flaws.
In any event, feedback means people are watching and interested, and that’s great. Your comments may encourage a more detailed response if you direct them to the content owner, in this case MGM. MGM has undergone many personnel changes over the last couple years, and distribution rights have moved as well. Perhaps it would be best to refer you to Eon in the UK. You may find contact info for MGM and Eon on their websites.
Kind regards,
Alan Silvers
Director/Business Development
Lowry Digital"

Here are some comparisons from the different laserdisc versions of "Goldfinger".

THX BOX SET

The Criterion Collection

The Connery Collection

THX BOX SET

The Criterion Collection

The Connery Collection

THX BOX SET

The Criterion Collection

The Connery Collection

captainsolo said:The THX edition of TSWLM is supposed to hold up better than either the SE or the UE. It only has that same 5.1 remix though.

So the DTS track on the UE is the best lossless source available then. 

Last week I got my hands on the THX "Thunderball" laser from that same series.

I found out that the 30th Anniversary box did not include a 5.1 AC-3 channel as I thought it did.  It only has surround sound on the digital channel.

ChainsawAsh said:

Would there be any benefit to color-correcting the Ultimate Editions based on the colors in the Criteron LDs, etc., then syncing the original audio and banned commentaries to those?

I'm not sure I could replicate the grain look that was lost on the U.E. set. I would have to play with them a bit to find out.

FF

SilverWook said:

skyjedi2005 said:

From what i have found out the pre special edition, THX version DVD's have both a widescreen version of the films and the full screen on the same disc.  Wonder if they are letterbox or anamorphic, according to what i read these were Dual Layer DVD's and something of a novelty at the time.  Of course now all DVD's or mostly all are DL.

I wonder if they are anamorphic, or if they are just the laserdisc video ported over.  The Special Editions came out later.

As said earlier in the thread, I have all of these except TSWLM. All have anamorphic transfers on one layer. Moonraker rotted(!) but the others are fine. Watched bits of them a couple weeks ago, and they hold up on a modern flat screen.

I would love to see these THX discs! Can you tell us what bit rate they use?

Just for the record, my copy of the "Moonraker" Special Edition started to show signs of rot over a year ago. My "Goldfinger" now has rot related errors too. So it's not just the THX series with these problems.

After spending the last few weeks looking at the different versions, my conclusions are that the print source used for the Lowry Digital  restorations (as seen on the Ultimate Edition set and Blu-ray discs) are the same as the 1989 Laserdisc series masters. The Connery Collection Vol. One and Two also used these masters. But, there are still some major adjustments made to the Lowry Digital  restorations. In some cases, visual effects have been removed. Such as a red blood filter missing from the shark pool scene in the Lowry restoration of Thunderball. 

Here again is an example of the cover design format used for that 1989 laserdisc series, so you can find these disks if you are collecting.

Same print masters are used for Connery Collection Vol. One and Two box sets in the early 1990's. The Connery Collection has a slightly better quality then the 1989 editions. This seems to be from the equipment used to make the disks.  That is why I am sourcing my preservation's video from The Connery Collection sets.

Note: "From Russia With Love" includes a music and effects only track on this set. 

____

Now on to the Criterion Collection versions of the first three Dr. No, From Russia With Love, and Goldfinger.

Note to collectors: Only the first printing two disc versions of the Criterion Collection have the banned audio commentary, and music and effects tracks. The single disc editions DO NOT. And, there is no music and effects track for "From Russia With Love" on the Criterion Collection two disk sets, just for "Dr. No" and "Goldfinger".

The Criterion Collection editions seem to be zoomed in a bit, therefore you lose some picture information. It's sad because the color on that series is very nice, and is more likely what the filmmakers intended. Didn't someone on this thread say that director Terence Young approved of the Criterion Collection's look or something along those lines a few weeks ago?

But still, the films are not in the correct aspect ratio, and there is some very evident print damage. By time the S.E. DVD's came out, this print damage was fixed, but the aspect ratio problem persisted. And O.H.M.S.S. was slightly edited.

Edit: In my opinion, the 1989 laser is the definitive version. With just the slightest bit of basic color and  brightness/Contrast adjustment, this film looks great. I'll preserve it!

What I will do is post some identical frames from each version here, as soon as I find the time to do so. This way you get a better idea of how these versions differ.

It is possible for me to match the Connery Collection's color to the color on the Criterion Collection. This would give you the correct color and the correct aspect ratio.  Then, I use the best original sound in lossless PCM mono (via the digital channel) . No fake stereo. The sound on the Criterion Collection is horrible by the way. Also, the Criterion Collection has this very bad problem. When the film starts on each side, the colors take a few frames to adjust. Don't know, but this could be a sign of the disks giving out to rot. 

FF 

Got my hands on yet another version!

This is the original CBS/FOX VIDEO release in pan&scan.

The soundtrack may be of use.

Just a warning. An improved quality version of this should be ready around the holidays. Sourced using a much better player and capture methods.  

FF

I think learning this stuff is most of the fun.

Cowboys & Aliens

Bond 23

captainsolo said:

Finally found these and watched through them. As soon as the old MGM and UA logos came on I knew everything was right again. Thank you for doing these preservations FF. I am certainly looking forward to your Thunderball project and the others redone.

Thank You very much for saying that. I love doing these, and Thunderball is looking good so far. I just got my hands on the rare 5.1 AC-3 THX laserdisc version.

FF

Have you tried finding the sound of something like an ocean wave, then using a editing program to manipulate and change that sound to become more of what you are looking for? That might work.

FF

EyeShotFirst said:

I bet this kid will be able to grow a full Selleck when he turns 15.

Moth3r said:

Just curious, but why did you decide to re-encode to DTS, instead of using the original untouched AC3 stream?

I did not know that I could record the original stream into the PC. Is there a manual on how this can be done? This is still very new to me.

Thanks

FF

Well I got the AC-3 RF demodulator working.

This unit will let me record a laserdisc's 5.1 mix straight into my PC without having to down mix into Stereo. I'll now be able to turn these mixes into DTS lossless files for my preservation projects.

I posted the solution to my problem over on my classic Bond laser preservation thread.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Bond-Laserdisc-Preservations-1962-1971/post/443970/#TopicPost443970

FF

SilverWook said:

Did you solve your demodulator problem?

Yes I did, thanks! It was my sound card settings.

Here is the complete Laserdisc Surround to PC proses that I am using for my projects. So to have everything in this one post, I'm going to re-list a few things posted earlier in this thread.

The laserdisc player I use is :

Pioneer CLD-D704

This unit has RCA AC-3 RF and Optical Digital Out

Specs =http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-d704/pioneer_cld-d704.htm

The AC-3 RF Demodulator is a

Kenwood DEM-9991d

The computer I use for my projects is a modified

HP media PC m7760n

The PCI card I use for video capture is

Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 NTSC/ATSC Combo

(using S-video input)

My sound card is a 

Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum.

Now here is where my problem was.

The problem was with how I had (or did not have) my settings for my sound card configured in the Device Controls menu. I had to select the SPDIF in option, Set the card to use Bit Accurate Mode, And set the decoder to installed DTS/DD.

Seems that having a "Bit Accurate Mode" option for the sound card is essential to decoding 5.1 AC-3 RF signal from the RF demodulator.

Next, I will use Adobe Audition 3.0 to record the 5.1 mix straight off the laser. After that, I split each channel (Front Right, Front Left, Center, Sub, Rear Right, Rear Left) into six individual mono PCM wav files (one for each channel), and open the SurCode DVD-DTS encoder program.

The DTS encoder will re-combine the six mono files back into a new single 5.1 lossless DTS surround digital audio file. This lossless DTS surround mix file will then be re-synced to the film's video, and placed onto my preservation DVD for Bond fans to enjoy.

FF

SilverWook said:

As a fellow 704 owner, a bit of advice. Do not use the auto reverse if you can possibly help it. (You can disable it by programming auto repeat of side A.) The unit is like a Rube Goldberg invention on the inside, and the turn mechanism relies on a cheap little spring to get the laser pickup aligned when it turns upward to read side B. My player self destructed because of that cheap little spring wearing out!

You will also have to contend with slippage of the disc clamping mechanism as the rubber degrades over time, (the player might not be able to slow the disc spinning down when "stop" is pressed) but it's not as traumatic as hearing the awful sound of the laser pickup flying off it's little rails.

Did you solve your demodulator problem?

Thanks for all that great info on that player SilverWook. I'll be sure to be careful with it. The picture is so much better on this unit then on the CLD-D504. 

Yes, I did get the RF Demodulator to work with my Denon Home Theater System. I've seen some info on the web that says that the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum has a problem with the AC-3 RF signal from laserdiscs, but there is a home made work around driver out there that will allow me to do this project with that sound card. It's just going to take some modifications to the drivers.  I'll start doing that on Wednesday.

FF