Darth Retcon

I did a Star Wars film marathon not so long ago. An used The Holiday Special and the two Ewok movies for when I really needed to get to sleep!

But not with the series too.

What is the running time for that, the 2003 Clone Wars series and 2008 TCW film included?
 

And safe bus trip. May your legroom be plenty, your set comfortable, and have no imperial entanglements (annoying loud kids!)

I really wanted to like this series, and I was really looking forward to seeing it, but some of the writing and decisions just took me out of it. That he series felt like a big budget fan film, but with real actors, and it didn’t fully deliver in the way it should and could have.

There were some great parts, don’t get me wrong. But overall I found it lacking in quality, and we also get issues with knock-on effects into the Original Trilogy films and other Star Wars stuff too.

A missed opportunity for what could have been a memorable and high quality series. Something that all corners of Star Wars fandom was probably could be great, and instead passed by as for most as being “okay” or simply “good”. For fans who though it was was better than that I am genuinely happy for you, and wish I got as much enjoyment form it as you did.
 

After watching this and some of the newer Star Wars releases of late, the more new Star Wars content we now get that is separate to what has come before, the better.

“Disney Decides the Only Way to Top a $5,000 Star Wars Hotel Stay Is a $5,000 Star Wars Cocktail”

https://gizmodo.com/star-wars-disney-wish-5000-dollar-mystery-cocktail-1849126110
 

$5000 for a drink, and you have to spend over $5000 to be on a two day holiday in a bunker, just to be able to buy it?

People really will pay anything for Star Wars stuff!

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2022/05/hayden-christensen-the-obi-wan-kenobi-lightsaber-duels-are-in-line-with-the-fighting-style-of-the-prequels.html

Hayden: “We’re more in line with the prequels than we are with how the fights are in the original trilogy. These characters have aged, but not that much yet."
 

I was hoping for more of the old style, original trilogy style of lightsaber fighting. Where there is more emotion and weight to the fights. More than the flash and needless swirling of the Prequel lightsaber fights.

Or at the very least somewhere in between, as this is set in between the two trilogies.

I suppose we will have to wait and see. Still trying to keep an open mind on this series.

JadedSkywalker said:

He did have great collaborators, Walter Murch on THX and Graffiti, Haskel Wexler on Graffiti. Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck. On Star Wars, Graffiti, And Temple of Doom. Gary Kurtz should be given credit, as well as Marcia Lucas, And Charley Lippincott. David Prowse should have been treated better. We now know how much credit is due to Howard Kazanjian and his efforts. You could write volumes of books just on the effects artists and concept artists and how they made those Star Wars movies. An auteur no doubt, but surrounded by genius talent like John Dykstra, Ralph Mcquarrie, Joe Johnston.

Lucas didn’t do it on his own. He was the general, but the rest of the people did all the things to make his vision come to life.

Plus John Williams and Ben Burtt. So many others talents too, we would be here all day if we were to go through them and we would likely still miss out some people and their contributions.

I find it very weird that when some fans give praise or credit to the many different talents involved in making these films, other fans appear and say this is somehow criticizing or disrespecting Lucas.

Darth Malgus said:

I don’t know if this can be defined exactly as an unpopular opinion, but I think that the “Force balance” has a very precise meaning. In my opinion, “Force balance” means two things at the same time: 1) the destruction of the Sith; 2) balancing the Jedi path with the natural human desire of personal love and attachment.

…

I like this very much, head canon thinking or sorts, a different POV, and one I can get on board with. I enjoyed reading that, and is something to think about. All of your post, not just the little bit I quoted. Thanks Darth Malgus.

I will simply be happy if they don’t use Special Edition content to demonstrate anything done in the 1970’s and 1980’s, like they have in many other official documentaries, books and articles!

I love the 2015 documentary “Star Wars: Evolution of the Lightsaber Duel” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vGjNnZhJFI

It nicely expands upon the 2004 doc “SW: The Birth of the Lightsaber” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIefj6dOhnM
 

You can easily see the disconnect between the reinterpretation in the Prequel Trilogy use of lightsabers, compared to the earlier the Original Trilogy. And I also like that the 2015 doc goes into more detail on Kendo and the origins of the lightsaber, plus showing Kendo in more modern competition and training.
 

canofhumdingers said:

FWIW I took Olympic style fencing for a few years in college and then spent a decade practicing and competing in Kendo regularly. I also studied a small amount of Iaido and Battojutsu and have a strong general interest in sword combat and general medieval combat (european and Asian). IMO the ANH fight between Vader and Kenobi is the most “realistic” sword fight in the whole franchise, the ESB duel is the best stage combat that’s realistic “enough” and is terribly fun to watch, and the Snow fight between Rey and Kylo really does a great job conveying the sheer intensity of sword fighting to the audience while also being very entertaining. The prequel fights are mostly preposterous and cringe inducing. And finally, NONE of it is even remotely ACTUALLY realistic when compared with actual sword combat. It’s make believe space wizards with laser swords. And that’s ok!

That is very cool.

One of the things I do enjoy about the Sequel Trilogy is the return of the intensity and weight of sword fighting that the OT had. And that wielding a lightsaber in combat is not easy as swirling around as quickly as possible, or needlessly “spinning” as often shown in the Prequels.

ken-obi said:

Bring back the time when games were announced and released later the same year. And not later in the decade.
I’m joking but, maybe only half joking.

Yes. This 100%. And more fun in the game playing as well.

Troll, bot or future spammer?

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Why-is-the-original-trilogy-better-than-the-prequels/id/93815
 

The above thread is an exact copy of this thread:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Why-is-the-original-trilogy-better-than-the-prequels/id/74335

and is also on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/ahi7gv/why_is_the_original_trilogy_better_than_the/

Emre1601 said:

I know very little on 3D Star Wars, but there is a section on the 3D films and also a completed fan project (but nobody has access to it?) in https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/An-Index-Help-Thread-for-Original-Trilogy-Discussion/id/57363 : in the “The Home Releases and Formats of the Original Trilogy”. Maybe there is something in there that may help you?

Also from the “Star Wars Saga Preservation” project index:

Neptune’s Star Wars Saga 3D Conversion Project. a 2013 thread; password protected files - passwords are unknown

but is seems people still cannot access this, and nobody has done a similar 3D project since?

PsyKovic, have you found 3D Star Wars projects by other fans?

Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina

In the EU, Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina was a series of short stories about the various going on in Tatooine’s Mos Eisley bar and all of the shady characters it attracts.

Make this an anthology film with a Pulp Fiction style, featuring several interlocking stories centered around the Cantina about various smugglers, low level criminals, people simply passing through, and everyday people trying to keep a low profile and looking to avoid any Imperial entanglements.
 

“Tales From Takodana Castle” could work just as well if wanting to do a Sequel era story.

Or do both! But I’m not sure a “Tales From Dex’s Diner” would work.

Darth Malgus said:

I would like to express my own views on George Lucas, the Prequel Trilogy, the revised history of Star Wars, etc, from a Prequel loving prospective.

…

You do post with respect for others, and give your personal opinion, not portrayed as fact or unwilling to see others’ opinions of facts they provide. When you say “I think it’s totally pointless to argue about what really happened and what the real history of the Star Wars franchise is” I respect this, but I do disagree. As others and Anchorhead have said, this is one of the few websites that does highlight the factual history of Star Wars, and not the official version which was re-written by Lucas.

And this is important to many on here. Maybe more so for older fans who have lived through Lucas lies, retcons and claims. And to pass that information down to younger fans, or other people unaware of the factual history, and Lucas’ lies, retcons and claims.

I think it important to know and remember that, as many others do:

Lippincott, Marcia Lucas and Gary Kurtz contributions to early Star Wars have been diminished, if not outright erased in the official history. That Prowse was badly and wrongfully treated by George, and never received an apology for George being wrong. Among many other things. We don’t want to accept lies or a re-written history of Star Wars as fact.

If people believe lies then you later have people repeating those lies or misinformation back at you, like in here when people make false claims about why there is no modern official release of the unaltered Original Trilogy films:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Naysayer-Guide-by-people-who-DONT-want-an-unaltered-theatrical-release-of-the-OT/id/90706

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ReleaseTheOriginalTrilogy-OriginalTrilogy-coms-enduring-goal-How-you-can-help/id/90534

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/George-Lucas-Star-Wars-Creator-Unreliable-Narrator-Time-Travelling-Revisionist/id/66986

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/An-OriginalTrilogy-com-Timeline-or-a-history-of-the-site-or-the-why-and-how-it-came-to-be-/id/63479
 

For some people this is not of interest, or much interest, or as you say prefer to focus on “personal opinions and our personal tastes”, and that is okay too.

In peace, my friend.

Ice said:

I feel that any prequel is always intended to be watched in release order; ie the very fact that it is a prequel means that it should be watched with the knowledge of the film that comes after it.

Chronological order ruins the viewing experience, at least for a first-time viewer (people who have seen all films can choose any order).

I joke, but this his would not be an issues if everyone had an option to watch the unaltered theatrical cuts. 😃
 

the image is not mine: https://twitter.com/BrandonMutala/status/1471499989448753161

Stardust1138 said:

I’m very invested in learning about George and his way of creating stories. I’ve watched nearly everything I can about him on YouTube that isn’t clearly biased. I’ve also watched and read multiple interviews with him. I’ve read books about him and his collaborators.

I call “rubbish”. Your words do not correspond to your actions on here. Numerous people have pointed you to information on George: The Secret History Of Star Wars, Skywalking, GL Unreliable Narrator thread, OT timeline, history of this site, among other sources - and you haven’t acknowledged them or talked about them at all. As ken-obi stats above you simply change the topic or ignore them. Or post up Rick Worley links, again.

It appears you are only interested in sources that confirm your own bias or reinforce your one-sided and limited opinions.

I sincerely apologise to everyone I offended. I truly am sorry but I also feel the whiplash shouldn’t be squarely put on me as the only one responsible. We can all go a little far sometimes.

There is the glib and oft-repeated: “we can all go a little far sometimes”. You do this. Nobody else on here does. Noteworthy that there is more emphasis on others ‘doing wrong too’ than any genuine apology from you.
 

Give ken-obi’s post above a read, and the re-read Sparky’s post: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909

Maybe give The Secret History Of Star Wars, Skywalking, GL Unreliable Narrator thread, OT timeline, the history of this site, and other sources repeatedly recommended to you by others on here a read. Think on them, Take them in. Do this before you post up any further additional content people have already said they are not interested in. Or more Rick Worley videos nobody has asked for.

Then start treating others with civility and respect on here, and learn why and how this place came about, and what it means. Why it is unique and so different to many other SW forums. Open your mind to, as ken-obi put it "the factual history of Star Wars’ - not the one George re-wrote and spins in official books, written by people who don’t ask him many tough or difficult questions, and often get the basics wrong about Star Wars film history themselves. And leave your biases behind.

Or simply do yourself a favour and leave. Take your one-eyed insular George zealotry with you. Like I said to you before in PMs when highlighting why you were having so many issues with others on here: It is up to you. Not us.

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course,that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t being yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You can believe what you want to believe but I’m not the only one here who can go a little far in explaining my feelings on certain things. I’m fully aware I’m not perfect and make mistakes but to act like I’m the only one who is doing these things is blatantly false.

So you keep on repeatedly claiming. As demonstrated here: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909

I’ll leave the conversation there, before you try and attempt to somehow portray yourself as a victim once again. There is nothing more worth saying to you. And as you have previously demonstrated it would fall on deaf ears and you would simply continue on repeating yourself, regardless.

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course, that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t bring yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You may want to take a look in the mirror, as others have suggested, instead of projecting onto others, or attacking them.

screams in the void said:

Darth Retcon said:

screams in the void said:

One thing George forgot …not all poetry rhymes , nor does it have to .

100%.
 

As Emre says above there are some good points and facts made in Plinkett’s section on George, rhyming, Ring Theory and more, in his TFA review: https://youtu.be/miVRaoR_8xQ?t=653

Not forgetting his actual reviews on the Prequels themselves.
 

Contrary to what some other believe and claim, I even managed to still have my own views on the PT films after watching the Plinkett reviews!

In case it gets lost in the shuffle , I will repost the video by Hellogreedo here , which critiques the whole "ring theory " in a manner of civil discourse that is far removed from the tone of Plinkett …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FGBGcvWkdM and how was it that George described poetry ? Oh , yeah , now I remember …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo_bYq0

Quality, thank you for posting those.

screams in the void said:

That’s just like , uh , you’re opinion . Dude , you are literally commenting on a forum which was created with the expressed purpose of preserving his original vision , as well as that of his numerous collaborators who helped bring that vision to life and who’s work is sadly swept under the rug in favor of his numerous revisions …like those commentaries you mentioned . Kasdan not withstanding ,as those were snippets culled from other interviews . I don’t need a video ,or you , to tell me "how to watch Star Wars " , I know how to watch Star Wars , I load the tape into my VCR ,The disc into my DVD player or cue up some of the wonderful preservations created here .

You’re wasting your time friend. Stardust is a Lucas zealot. Almost everything he posts is in praise of George, and how others who don’t like his films simply don’t understand or misunderstand him, the Prequels, or his supposed “vision”. If something is critical of George or the Prequels then Stardust is going to shit on it and give more links for videos and content he does approve of (pro-George or pro-Prequel content). He has no respect for this forum, the people here, or what they say in conversations, and has already insulted others on here. He is not posting in good faith, and cannot bring himself to admit when he is wrong, or when caught out when making false claims, or apologize to others. Stardust often talks about growing and learning, but is not willing to do that himself. He is basically trolling.

Stardust completely made a fool of himself completely misunderstanding a post by ken-obi yesterday, and couldn’t even bring himself to simply apologize for it. Instead he tried to portray himself as a victim. Sparkysywer saw through it here: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909

I’d just ignore Stardust, until he leaves, or the mods ban him for trolling and shitting on this place, and the users here.
 

Countless Prequel fans are on here, or people who simply appreciate the Prequels, or who like and respect George, all get on fine with everyone and there is no problem. These are the people worth talking with, to me anyway.

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the many inane and off-topic links you post on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are simply the facts, even if you don’t like them. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit, and a factual account of Star Wars history, doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

Hal 9000 said:

Heard that the new ‘Courtship of Princess Leia’ replacement book will feature them honeymoon aboard Disney’s own starcruiser.

I… don’t imagine it feeling good to read about.

“And then Han marveled at their selection of drinks, spacious accommodations, and fabulous atmosphere.”

“Leia thought to herself about how she would tell her friends to book their reservations now, as the attraction so clearly justified it’s price and waiting period. She had never been so relaxed and fulfilled in her royal life, and she attributed it all to this wonderful resort with its star-class experience over marrying Han. She couldn’t wait to tell her childhood friend Winter so she could book her tickets at Disney.com/GalacticStarCruiserImmersiveStarWarsExoerience.com and use promo code “LeiaSolo” for 1% off when she books a four-night stay.”

You should copyright that just in case they do use it! It is certainly the type of promo the official Star Wars website would put up. 😃

screams in the void said:

One thing George forgot …not all poetry rhymes , nor does it have to .

100%.
 

As Emre says above there are some good points and facts made in Plinkett’s section on George, rhyming, Ring Theory and more, in his TFA review: https://youtu.be/miVRaoR_8xQ?t=653

Not forgetting his actual reviews on the Prequels themselves.
 

Contrary to what some other believe and claim, I even managed to still have my own views on the PT films after watching the Plinkett reviews!

JadedSkywalker said:

It used to incense me the lie that it was always the Saga of Darth Vader. It was Luke’s story, Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker. But now i think Star Wars has to evolve beyond Luke, and his story. Being stuck in the past is stuck in the past. That doesn’t mean i think Disney treated the characters with reverence from the original trilogy. And now they are running on nostalgia and have gotten the wrong message. Instead of evolving Star Wars they’ve regressed it. Its the biggest problem with episode 9, they needed to be bold and do something that didn’t waste Rian’s reset of the Star Wars universe. And i’m not sure what Lucas plans were, midichlorians and mortis leave me cold. They and Darth Maul don’t excite me in the least.

Basically Disney Star Wars is a waste of time, unless they somehow fix things with episode 10 and Rey returning. i’m glad my nieces and nephews enjoy it, but they aren’t big Star Wars fans its just another thing like Disney Marvel to them.

I don’t really have a Star Wars, the EU and the unaltered originals were my Star Wars. and a potential Lucas sequel that respected the originals and didn’t make the same prequel bs would have been great.

Have you not enjoyed the tv series so far, or looking forward to the series and films to come?

Saga-wise, George was always full of shit, and it shows, even in his unused Sequel ideas. Incoherent stories, discrepancies, retcons, and some lazy storytelling throughout the PT & his ST. Probably not much to do there other than enjoy the Original Trilogy and the EU. Maybe find some fan edits for the PT & ST to your liking?

But I am hopeful on the tv and new film front. Mandalorian, Bad Batch and Visions are all thumbsup, BOBF mixed (but decent enough overall). Andor should bring us something different. Rogue Squadron something familiar from the EU, with its own style. I hope so, anyway.

JadedSkywalker said:

I think they are trying to fix them with Expanded stuff outside the films after the fact making the same mistake as the prequels. Filling in the blanks, rewriting things in context, retconning where necessary. Should have been done during the screenplay stage don’tcha think. There is that Lando and Luke book coming out that is meant to Fix Rise of Skywalker.

The Kylo comic with hippie Snoke was weird though. I don’t consider that even canon to the Disney movies. The only thing i liked about that was showing Luke as a teacher and him searching for old jedi temples and artifacts. But it just doesn’t fit with the movie they made.

Its also ironic the guy fixing the mistakes is the same guy as last time Filoni. With the tv shows.

I could get on board with a Favreau-Filoni Special Edition of the Saga. Free, or ‘free’ on Disney+. A shame it would never happen, but would be interesting to see.

Do you mean like an actual clone of Vader?