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Unpopular Opinion Thread — Page 22

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Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

The Secret History of Star Wars | Star Wars Visual Comparisons | George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time-Travelling Revisionist

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 (Edited)

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

I’m just pointing out that Darth Malgus had a similar read to what you said as I did. That’s all. So it’s not only me who took what you said differently from how you presented it. I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use or how my points about the backlash George and Prequel fans got were a real thing are being claimed as false when it was anything but that. Especially when it equally pushed Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, and others involved to dark places.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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 (Edited)

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I totally agree! Since I’m a huge Anidala shipper, when I listen to Anakin talking to Padmé with Mat Lanter’s voice I feel very angry, because it’s like Padmé has a romantic relationship with another person who isn’t Anakin, and all this because of Mat Lanter’s voice. I swear, the more time goes by, the more I can’t stand it. I don’t think he’s a bad actor at all, really, he’s just not Anakin and he can never be. Mat Lucas is way better.

I’m just pointing out that Darth Malgus had a similar read to what you said as I did. That’s all.

Although in my initial post I stated that I agree with you, actually my speech was a general speech, it wasn’t addressed specifically to Ken-Obi. My speech was addressed in general to all those who accuse only the Prequel fans of being toxic. I perfectly understood what Ken-Obi said in his original post, and my post wasn’t addressed specifically to him, but was a general speech. Anyway, I think both of you should calm down and make peace. There’s been a misunderstanding between the two of you, but there’s no point in turning it into a war. It’s pointless. Let’s all calm down.

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

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Speaking of another unpopular voice actor opinion, Matt Sloan’s Vader voice does not work at all for serious portrayals of the character. His Vader started as a comedic impression (for the webseries Chad Vader) and only really works in comedy roles (e.g., Lego games, Lego animated features, spoof media, etc.). During Force Unleashed, I half expect Vader to be talking about his duties as the day shift manager of Empire Market.

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BedeHistory731 said:

Speaking of another unpopular voice actor opinion, Matt Sloan’s Vader voice does not work at all for serious portrayals of the character. His Vader started as a comedic impression (for the webseries Chad Vader) and only really works in comedy roles (e.g., Lego games, Lego animated features, spoof media, etc.). During Force Unleashed, I half expect Vader to be talking about his duties as the day shift manager of Empire Market.

I actually like his voice for Vader. Just my opinion, though.

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

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 (Edited)

Darth Malgus said:

Although in my initial post I stated that I agree with you, actually my speech was a general speech, it wasn’t addressed specifically to Ken-Obi. My speech was addressed in general to all those who accuse only the Prequel fans of being toxic. I perfectly understood what Ken-Obi said in his original post, and my post wasn’t addressed specifically to him, but was a general speech. Anyway, I think both of you should calm down and make peace. There’s been a misunderstanding between the two of you, but there’s no point in turning it into a war. It’s pointless. Let’s all calm down.

Oh, that’s what I meant too. I meant in a general speech sort of way you understood what I was trying to say. I totally agree though. There’s no need to let it continuing to drag on. There was a misunderstanding. We can’t understand things exactly as they’re said sometimes. Generally speaking I think putting fans in different camps and groups is a bad thing as it creates a lot of divide. Like people on SaltierThanCrait aren’t nearly as toxic as some want to believe because of how they’re talked about in general terms. There’s some but the majority on the server have valid reasons for not liking the Sequels. We all love Star Wars and I think that’s what we should focus on instead of tearing each other or creators alike down. We just have a different view. Address the story and not the person or generalise them into groups.

BedeHistory731 said:

Speaking of another unpopular voice actor opinion, Matt Sloan’s Vader voice does not work at all for serious portrayals of the character. His Vader started as a comedic impression (for the webseries Chad Vader) and only really works in comedy roles (e.g., Lego games, Lego animated features, spoof media, etc.). During Force Unleashed, I half expect Vader to be talking about his duties as the day shift manager of Empire Market.

Anyways!

I think he does a fine job in the parodies. The snippet we’ve seen of him in Star Wars Detours is really funny. I have no definitive opinion otherwise. I can’t remember his voice distracting me from enjoying The Force Unleashed.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

Anyways!

I think he does a fine job in the parodies. The snippet we’ve seen of him in Star Wars Detours is really funny.

Indeed. I was around when Chad Vader was releasing new episodes, so I like seeing him do Vader in comedy. It’s just that he kind of can’t handle serious Vader as well as Scott Lawrence. Much like how Seth MacFarlane could never do a serious Palpatine performance, no matter how funny he was on Robot Chicken.

my lord

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Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

I’m just pointing out that Darth Malgus had a similar read to what you said as I did. That’s all. So it’s not only me who took what you said differently from how you presented it. I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use or how my points about the backlash George and Prequel fans got were a real thing are being claimed as false when it was anything but that. Especially when it equally pushed Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, and others involved to dark places.

Again, I haven’t read what Darth Malgus has said.

You feel “gaslighted”? Don’t portray the victim. You jumped in after getting what I said completely wrong. Something which you acknowledge, but are somehow looking for excuses for, or to introduce “broader terms”.

As you like posting links to videos for others to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo

Again, a “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply sufficed.

The Secret History of Star Wars | Star Wars Visual Comparisons | George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time-Travelling Revisionist

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 (Edited)

BedeHistory731 said:

Stardust1138 said:

Anyways!

I think he does a fine job in the parodies. The snippet we’ve seen of him in Star Wars Detours is really funny.

Indeed. I was around when Chad Vader was releasing new episodes, so I like seeing him do Vader in comedy. It’s just that he kind of can’t handle serious Vader as well as Scott Lawrence. Much like how Seth MacFarlane could never do a serious Palpatine performance, no matter how funny he was on Robot Chicken.

my lord

I should really watch the Chad Vader episodes. I only vaguely remember watching snippets of them years ago before I fully understood what satire actually meant. The Robot Chicken skits are really funny sometimes. I also enjoyed Family Guy Star Wars from what I remember. Have you seen it? It’s fun to consider George at one point had his DVR filled with mostly just Family Guy. Haha

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Time
 (Edited)

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

I’m just pointing out that Darth Malgus had a similar read to what you said as I did. That’s all. So it’s not only me who took what you said differently from how you presented it. I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use or how my points about the backlash George and Prequel fans got were a real thing are being claimed as false when it was anything but that. Especially when it equally pushed Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, and others involved to dark places.

Again, I haven’t read what Darth Malgus has said.

You feel “gaslighted”? Don’t portray the victim. You jumped in after getting what I said completely wrong. Something which you acknowledge, but are somehow looking for excuses for, or to introduce “broader terms”.

As you like posting links to videos for others to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo

Again, a “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply sufficed.

Well I loved the link in good humour. But I do doubt you’ll get a “sorry” from Stardust for completely misunderstanding your posts. And then trying to excuse himself, and trying to make out you’d done something wrong. This is the modern internet for you, even when someone fucks up they rarely say sorry or admit they got things wrong.

Stardust has also done this many times on here, and more people are noticing this too.

Explanations, analysis, and shortcomings of the Star Wars Ring Theory : Plinkett & HelloGreedo | The Emptiness of George Lucas’ Visual Symmetry

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Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Of course everyone is grateful to George for Star Wars, his creation and his dedication, but Star Wars thankfully moved on far beyond George and his retconned and re-invented visions. There is so much more to try, to experience, and enjoy.

The irony of it is Original Trilogy fans can be the exact same way. So it’s not just a Prequels fans thing to do but something I’ve seen Original fans do as well.

Source: My bum

No, actually, I really want to call this out here. You just kind of… assert this and hope it’s taken as fact. Can you give any examples of OT fans behaving the exact same way? Just so the goalposts stay where they belong, specifically I’m looking for:

  1. Claiming the only reason people dislike the OT is because they didn’t understand it
  2. Gatekeeping, and adding a requirement of having done your summer reading watching stuff that isn’t the OT in order for your opinion on the OT to matter
  3. Rarely talk about what actually happens in the OT
  4. Rarely talk about what they actually enjoyed about the OT

All of these are par for the course when talking to a dyed-in-the-wool prequel zealot.

Isn’t it just as narrow focused to not try understanding a piece of art and claiming it’s boring without understanding all of the reasons for what it is actually telling us?

If this is you providing an example of OT fans being like that, then one, you don’t seem to understand what ken-obi was talking about, which seems to be the case when you say

Stardust1138 said:

So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

But more importantly, two, dude, seriously, the reason people disagree with you over these movies is actually not because they just don’t understand them. And I don’t want to hear about how much you understand and respect how movies are subjective or whatever just for you to hyperfixate on the totally not phantom menace of people who just don’t want to understand the super subtle prequels.

Stardust1138 said:

I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use

What a fascinating conversation this was.

> I think it’s silly how a lot of prequel fans act in bad faith in these conversations
> Prequel fans aren’t the only ones who are mean bullies, OT fans are like that too
> That’s not at all what I was talking about
> Well, I just have a different interpretation of what you said.
> Your interpretation was wrong. You’re saying I said things which I never did.
> Well, someone else also thought what I thought too.
> This does not change that you thought I meant one thing, and I actually meant something else
> I feel gaslighted and attacked

I don’t want to get personal, but I feel like I have to. You seem to have a chronic inability to admit when you’ve made a mistake and you seem to prefer just continually pulling up excuse after excuse instead of just saying “Oops, I am human and fallible and said something that was wrong.” You very clearly misunderstood what ken-obi was saying, literally why not just admit it?

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Of course everyone is grateful to George for Star Wars, his creation and his dedication, but Star Wars thankfully moved on far beyond George and his retconned and re-invented visions. There is so much more to try, to experience, and enjoy.

The irony of it is Original Trilogy fans can be the exact same way. So it’s not just a Prequels fans thing to do but something I’ve seen Original fans do as well.

Source: My bum

No, actually, I really want to call this out here. You just kind of… assert this and hope it’s taken as fact. Can you give any examples of OT fans behaving the exact same way? Just so the goalposts stay where they belong, specifically I’m looking for:

  1. Claiming the only reason people dislike the OT is because they didn’t understand it
  2. Gatekeeping, and adding a requirement of having done your summer reading watching stuff that isn’t the OT in order for your opinion on the OT to matter
  3. Rarely talk about what actually happens in the OT
  4. Rarely talk about what they actually enjoyed about the OT

All of these are par for the course when talking to a dyed-in-the-wool prequel zealot.

Isn’t it just as narrow focused to not try understanding a piece of art and claiming it’s boring without understanding all of the reasons for what it is actually telling us?

If this is you providing an example of OT fans being like that, then one, you don’t seem to understand what ken-obi was talking about, which seems to be the case when you say

Stardust1138 said:

So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

But more importantly, two, dude, seriously, the reason people disagree with you over these movies is actually not because they just don’t understand them. And I don’t want to hear about how much you understand and respect how movies are subjective or whatever just for you to hyperfixate on the totally not phantom menace of people who just don’t want to understand the super subtle prequels.

Stardust1138 said:

I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use

What a fascinating conversation this was.

> I think it’s silly how a lot of prequel fans act in bad faith in these conversations
> Prequel fans aren’t the only ones who are mean bullies, OT fans are like that too
> That’s not at all what I was talking about
> Well, I just have a different interpretation of what you said.
> Your interpretation was wrong. You’re saying I said things which I never did.
> Well, someone else also thought what I thought too.
> This does not change that you thought I meant one thing, and I actually meant something else
> I feel gaslighted and attacked

I don’t want to get personal, but I feel like I have to. You seem to have a chronic inability to admit when you’ve made a mistake and you seem to prefer just continually pulling up excuse after excuse instead of just saying “Oops, I am human and fallible and said something that was wrong.” You very clearly misunderstood what ken-obi was saying, literally why not just admit it?

Examples?

https://youtu.be/wzDIClx-_pY

https://youtu.be/Aoc3roT81nU

https://youtu.be/bFu2IFdjCaw

https://youtu.be/YhhACgJJkc4

https://youtu.be/BKu8Ri6MAHU

https://youtu.be/qfNiSkd3HfI

https://youtu.be/56FsSmUi0Yk

https://youtu.be/vqnjzVX8EKA

Do I need to go on?

I’m merely relying all of the information George Lucas has said himself or is within the films themselves. If people want to believe otherwise that’s their choice. I’m no expert either as I still have a lot to learn.

I do absolutely admit I was wrong in some ways but I’m not completely in the wrong either.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

Author
Time
 (Edited)

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the many inane and off-topic links you post on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are simply the facts, even if you don’t like them. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit, and a factual account of Star Wars history, doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

“The other Sequels were the result of an over-anxious press. The original intention was to make three [films], and that was really the end of it. It was not until 10 years after the first [film] that I thought of doing a back story.” - George Lucas, speaking at the Premiere of ROTS in 2005

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

I did actually watch the documentary a few years ago. I barely care to remember watching it though as it merely reinforces false claims and a need to circle around a debate on who owns the films. It’s not the fans. I have no disrespect to anyone who took part in the making of it or don’t like the Prequels but the fact of the matter is that it’s a documentary reinforcing beliefs of a segment of disgruntled fans that don’t speak for the majority elsewhere within the fandom. The fact that even Mark Hamill condemns it should be a clue to what he and others involved in the making of the films think. Yet you say Gary Kurtz and David Prowse were in it. It’s not like they didn’t have any personal biases against George. Marcia Lucas even went on record in calling out Gary in Howard Kazanjian’s book. That’s not to say either one weren’t important to what Star Wars became as they were absolutely a major part in shaping it but to act like they know everything there is to know about Star Wars is false. People will cite them as knowing the absolute facts before George but that’s just not true. The fact is the stories grew and evolved. It may not have stayed exactly the same as it was in early drafts but that’s what storytelling is all about. It’s evolving a story and letting it take the natural progression you as the artist want to take it. George just had a different idea on certain things. Why is this a problem? He can contradict himself all he wants as the story isn’t set in stone until we sit down to experience it. He’s always evolving it though like a Renaissance painter. Do people have a problem with them fine tuning their work? George sees it exactly the same way. It doesn’t belong to me or you either.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealous one here.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course, that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t bring yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You may want to take a look in the mirror, as others have suggested, instead of projecting onto others, or attacking them.

“The other Sequels were the result of an over-anxious press. The original intention was to make three [films], and that was really the end of it. It was not until 10 years after the first [film] that I thought of doing a back story.” - George Lucas, speaking at the Premiere of ROTS in 2005

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course,that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t being yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You can believe what you want to believe but I’m not the only one here who can go a little far in explaining my feelings on certain things. I’m fully aware I’m not perfect and make mistakes but to act like I’m the only one who is doing these things is blatantly false.

So it’s trolling and out of line to have an opinion through what we are told by George and experienced first hand but it’s not when you go through someone’s posts one by one to point out where you feel they’re wrong or cite sources that may or may not have some bias?

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course,that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t being yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You can believe what you want to believe but I’m not the only one here who can go a little far in explaining my feelings on certain things. I’m fully aware I’m not perfect and make mistakes but to act like I’m the only one who is doing these things is blatantly false.

So you keep on repeatedly claiming. As demonstrated here: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909

I’ll leave the conversation there, before you try and attempt to somehow portray yourself as a victim once again. There is nothing more worth saying to you. And as you have previously demonstrated it would fall on deaf ears and you would simply continue on repeating yourself, regardless.

“The other Sequels were the result of an over-anxious press. The original intention was to make three [films], and that was really the end of it. It was not until 10 years after the first [film] that I thought of doing a back story.” - George Lucas, speaking at the Premiere of ROTS in 2005

Author
Time
 (Edited)

SparkySywer said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Of course everyone is grateful to George for Star Wars, his creation and his dedication, but Star Wars thankfully moved on far beyond George and his retconned and re-invented visions. There is so much more to try, to experience, and enjoy.

The irony of it is Original Trilogy fans can be the exact same way. So it’s not just a Prequels fans thing to do but something I’ve seen Original fans do as well.

Source: My bum

No, actually, I really want to call this out here. You just kind of… assert this and hope it’s taken as fact. Can you give any examples of OT fans behaving the exact same way? Just so the goalposts stay where they belong, specifically I’m looking for:

  1. Claiming the only reason people dislike the OT is because they didn’t understand it
  2. Gatekeeping, and adding a requirement of having done your summer reading watching stuff that isn’t the OT in order for your opinion on the OT to matter
  3. Rarely talk about what actually happens in the OT
  4. Rarely talk about what they actually enjoyed about the OT

All of these are par for the course when talking to a dyed-in-the-wool prequel zealot.

Isn’t it just as narrow focused to not try understanding a piece of art and claiming it’s boring without understanding all of the reasons for what it is actually telling us?

If this is you providing an example of OT fans being like that, then one, you don’t seem to understand what ken-obi was talking about, which seems to be the case when you say

Stardust1138 said:

So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

But more importantly, two, dude, seriously, the reason people disagree with you over these movies is actually not because they just don’t understand them. And I don’t want to hear about how much you understand and respect how movies are subjective or whatever just for you to hyperfixate on the totally not phantom menace of people who just don’t want to understand the super subtle prequels.

Stardust1138 said:

I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use

What a fascinating conversation this was.

> I think it’s silly how a lot of prequel fans act in bad faith in these conversations
> Prequel fans aren’t the only ones who are mean bullies, OT fans are like that too
> That’s not at all what I was talking about
> Well, I just have a different interpretation of what you said.
> Your interpretation was wrong. You’re saying I said things which I never did.
> Well, someone else also thought what I thought too.
> This does not change that you thought I meant one thing, and I actually meant something else
> I feel gaslighted and attacked

I don’t want to get personal, but I feel like I have to. You seem to have a chronic inability to admit when you’ve made a mistake and you seem to prefer just continually pulling up excuse after excuse instead of just saying “Oops, I am human and fallible and said something that was wrong.” You very clearly misunderstood what ken-obi was saying, literally why not just admit it?

You won’t get an answer. Not an answer that actually answers your points or questions, anyway.

Stardust certainly has problems apologizing for his mistakes, or when caught out making numerous false claims, but has no problem insulting others or trying to paint themselves as a victim. “Sorry, I got it wrong” does not exist in his vocabulary. Though I’d be happy to be proven wrong on this.
 

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course,that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t being yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You can believe what you want to believe but I’m not the only one here who can go a little far in explaining my feelings on certain things. I’m fully aware I’m not perfect and make mistakes but to act like I’m the only one who is doing these things is blatantly false.

So you keep on repeatedly claiming. As demonstrated here: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909

I’ll leave the conversation there, before you try and attempt to somehow portray yourself as a victim once again.

It seems that it is a good move to leave the conversation, as Stardust does appear to be trying to be positioning himself as a victim, or the as the “wronged” party in this.

Explanations, analysis, and shortcomings of the Star Wars Ring Theory : Plinkett & HelloGreedo | The Emptiness of George Lucas’ Visual Symmetry

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I want a remaster of Super Bombad Racing. Heck, a big collection of old Lucasarts titles from the 3rd-6th generations of gaming would be very welcome. They wouldn’t even need to be ports, since most modern consoles can handle emulation of these console generations.

We already have ports/backwards compatibility for Jedi Outcast, Starfighter: Special Edition, Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Academy, Racer, Republic Commando, The Clone Wars, ROTS, and Bounty Hunter. It’d be nice to get the missing games on a multi-platform release, so more generations can enjoy or dislike these games (see the Super Bombad Racing mention above).

I didn’t mention the Pandemic Studios Battlefront duology or Empire at War because those are best suited for PC gaming. Console Battlefront isn’t as fun as PC.

Author
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

I want a remaster of Super Bombad Racing. Heck, a big collection of old Lucasarts titles from the 3rd-6th generations of gaming would be very welcome. They wouldn’t even need to be ports, since most modern consoles can handle emulation of these console generations.

We already have ports/backwards compatibility for Jedi Outcast, Starfighter: Special Edition, Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Academy, Racer, Republic Commando, The Clone Wars, ROTS, and Bounty Hunter. It’d be nice to get the missing games on a multi-platform release, so more generations can enjoy or dislike these games (see the Super Bombad Racing mention above).

I didn’t mention the Pandemic Studios Battlefront duology or Empire at War because those are best suited for PC gaming. Console Battlefront isn’t as fun as PC.

Super Bombad Racing would be very cool to play again!

Explanations, analysis, and shortcomings of the Star Wars Ring Theory : Plinkett & HelloGreedo | The Emptiness of George Lucas’ Visual Symmetry

Author
Time

Emre1601 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I want a remaster of Super Bombad Racing. Heck, a big collection of old Lucasarts titles from the 3rd-6th generations of gaming would be very welcome. They wouldn’t even need to be ports, since most modern consoles can handle emulation of these console generations.

We already have ports/backwards compatibility for Jedi Outcast, Starfighter: Special Edition, Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Academy, Racer, Republic Commando, The Clone Wars, ROTS, and Bounty Hunter. It’d be nice to get the missing games on a multi-platform release, so more generations can enjoy or dislike these games (see the Super Bombad Racing mention above).

I didn’t mention the Pandemic Studios Battlefront duology or Empire at War because those are best suited for PC gaming. Console Battlefront isn’t as fun as PC.

Super Bombad Racing would be very cool to play again!

I think PCSX2 doesn’t have much trouble with it, but PCSX2 is a pain to set up. I don’t blame anybody who’d pick up a used PS2 on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. Just make sure to get aftermarket component cables.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I’d like a Kotor remaster more than a remake. Something like Mass Effect Legendary edition

Edit:

I’m not here to be critical of Mr Lucas, but i don’t like that Charley Lippincott, Marcia Lucas and Gary Kurtz contributions to Star Wars were all diminished, if not outright erased. Or how David Prowse was horribly treated.

Maybe not unpopular opinions here but that is my ten cents.