CatBus

Credit for James Earl Jones was good.

Everything else was crap.

That certainly would be easiest.  Anyone happen to have that track?

AntcuFaalb said:

Anyone interested in a release?

YES!

Er.  Mayyybe...

Found the link: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Preserving-German-Original-Trilogy/post/549753/#TopicPost549753

He doesn't specify the language(s), but it'd be odd to say English and German voices not being in sync was "weird" (I'd take that as a given).  I assumed he was talking about PAL English and NTSC English, because that makes Laserschwert's statement most logical (and Lucasfilm's behavior least logical, which works for my predefined biases)

Mavimao said:

If we're talking about dubbed versions then that is a whole different story! When a film is being dubbed ALL of the foley has to be redone from scratch since they can't use the on location sound due to dialogue. 

I'll try to find the link--he was talking about the English version (German isn't available on NTSC discs)

I agree it'd be dumb to re-ADR everything.  But that doesn't mean it wasn't done...

Mavimao said:

There's different ADR in PAL regions? I find that hard to believe. 

I haven't verified this myself.  But I believe if you check Laserschwert's German preservation thread, you'll find mention of it.  Maybe it's only for Star Wars, not the whole trilogy.

My 2.0 sync varies probably more than you'd like, and the PAL ROTJ sync slowed down will (I think) vary from NTSC sources on the dialogue due to the different ADR.

Your best bet on a reference AFAIK is my 5.1 hairy_hen remix, most of the sync is very reliable (because I didn't do it!), except for the <1 second of audio that I put in, which may vary by a few ms either way.  But that <1 second is probably what you're looking for...

If you want it, PM me and I can deliver it in AC3 format.  The trick is you'd have to downmix it to stereo, and that may cause its own complications.

Honestly you'd probably get the best results by using an NTSC sync (which you presumably already have) and adding/deleting the frames yourself.  Or you could release it synced to NTSC (w/ perfect sync) and let others make PAL-framecount-synced versions (with looser quality control).

I made a PAL ROTJ-synced 1983 LD track, but frankly I wouldn't trust it to be anything but a rough guide--my work is a little on the amateur side.  Oh, and I made a PAL-adjusted 5.1 track based on hairy_hen's.  That might be better, as the amateur stuff is limited to the frames I edited.

EDIT: Also, I believe Laserschwert found that the official ROTJ PAL track had been re-ADR'd, so the sound effects lined up perfectly with NTSC once you made the frames match, but the dialogue drifted slightly in and out of sync.  Weird.  I don't think there's any need to re-create that.

rockin said:

http://www.xylonhd.com/home/2012/9/16/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-comparison-pix.html

Anyone seen this?

Seems like a good comparison of all the different sources.

Sure shows off the WOWOW source, almost always clearly the best image, distinctly different from DVD/H.264 on the one end (too blue) and Blu-ray (too gold) on the other.  Now I've seen enough to say even though Blu-ray beats DVD/H.264 (discolored in a preferable manner), WOWOW is the way to go (not very discolored at all).  And now I'm sad I don't have the WOWOW version :(

EDIT: If only there were a way to do a gold tint transplant, we could fix the Blu-rays for Raiders and Do the Right Thing simultaneously.

xhonzi said:

It always shows the Holiday Special, regardless of what you're borrowing.

I'm now imagining a vending machine from Hell that dispenses the Holiday Special, regardless of what you try to borrow...

Verrry doubtful.  Every few weeks on AVS somebody claims to have somehow gotten a Blu-ray without the green tint.  The difference is not in the video, it's in the viewer's ability to discern the problem.  I'm nearly positive it's the same "difference" with the iTunes version.

IIRC all 1.0 editions were primarily sourced on a 720p HDTV SE capture.  2.0 switches that to BD.  Both are 720p HD.

Sounds great.  Found 1 definite and 2 possible glitches (reported to Teeceezy already), but that's very minor.  The next release should be a keeper!  (I for one plan to throw out my previous 1980 stereo LD sync and wholesale replace with this one)

AntcuFaalb said:

It's still perfectly acceptable now.

Okay, overstatement on my part.  They were normal and even expected back then.  They are not normal now.

People didn't pass-up Prometheus because of this blunder: http://faildesk.net/2012/06/12/prometheus-runs-on-windows-7/

That's not a flaw.  That's a subtle editorial statement about how long some corporations will hold out before deploying Windows 8.

timdiggerm said:

penguinofgreatness said:

(With the exception of the snake reflection. Why?!)

Like removing fuzzy matte-boxes, it's removing something that would not have been visible to theater-goers during the original run. Darker projection makes a huge difference in what is visible.

It was visible in the original theatrical run (there was a little geeky chatter about it even then--"hey! guess how they did this shot! you can see the reflection!").  It just wasn't a big deal, and it continued to not be a big deal when it was visible on VHS and Laserdisc.  Yes, I am old and saw this movie lots of times in the theatre.

Modern audiences expect their visual effects to be flawless.  Past audiences merely expected visual effects to be convincing.  We used to see reflections, boom mikes, obvious matte paintings, and even occasionally wires and that was perfectly acceptable to most people at the time.  This really is a cut-and-dry case of changing a movie to fit changing popular aesthetic sensibilities.

dvdmike said:

Somewhere in between may be the perfect mix.

I do not have photoshop on this machine, anyone want to make a hybrid shot?

If the images were better aligned, we could just take one image and put the other image over it as a semitransparent layer.  Adjusting the opacity would then tell us how close to make it to which source (assuming we could find a range that looked good that we could more-or-less agree on!).  Then we could try to figure out how to reach that target using only one of the sources and some adjustments.

The flag shot is badly misaligned and the sunset shot doesn't have any neutrals or skintones for even attempting to gauge "correct".  IIRC there's another shot someone posted in the AVS forums with Indy and Sallah at lunch that would be a good gauge (and it also showcases the DVD blue problem).  Having that shot and the flag shot aligned better may be useful, but I'm crap at such things.  The sunset shot is likely to remain subjective, but I suppose we could run it through the process as a sanity check.

EDIT: Presumably we'd have to use adjusted WOWOW for the brightened opening even if we used adjusted Blu for everything else, to undo the loss of detail on the Blu.  And then there's the matter of doing some sort of crazy Laserdisc upscaling for the erased effects scenes.

FWIW, I'm throwing my hat into the ring on the side of the Blu-ray is certainly too yellow/gold, but I also find the DVD is too blue (haven't seen the HDTV aside from screencaps).  I find the yellow/gold tint to be a preferable choice of two discolorations, but I'm under no illusions that it's accurate.

IMO we simply have to have a better source (16mm or whatnot) to be certain.  My wild-ass guess would place the colors between DVD and Blu-ray, but closer to DVD.  That seems counterintuitive, but I think a little shift in the blue direction can seem more wrong than a big shift in the yellow direction, which is why, to me, the DVD is closer to accurate but I still prefer the Blu.  Does that make sense?

You kids better get off my lawn before my uncontrollable sobbing stops.

They're just raw Laserdisc sides.  AFAIK, the original archive contains only four GOUT synced tracks--SW 77 digital stereo, and the three commentary tracks.  It's also worth noting that I believe the archive syncs to a very odd GOUT-ish standard for ROTJ: a hybrid PAL/NTSC framecount that includes all frames from both versions.  It's only off by one frame from PAL though, and for commentary that's more than close enough.

lpd said:

The best bits on that disc for colour reference is the split seconds of TESB, it looks great.

Well, if anyone can post caps of these, Harmy's fishing for ESB color references.  Even a few frames could be useful.

That I'm not sure about.  He should respond soon enough if we keep taking his name in vain though.

Teeceezy has reported to be almost done with ESB, and maybe also almost done with ROTJ synced to NTSC (not PAL?).  I imagine he'll be making something available soon.

Well, my personal favorite was when we got you to blow up over flesh tones.* But it stands out because you are otherwise always so level-headed and reasonable. Which, I might add, is just unnatural considering the anarchy of conflicting demands and non-sequiturs we put in this thread for you to sift through.

You are not a big meanie, even at your grumpiest.  The reason we like to get your goat is because it's so hard to get.

* Also, this particular rant made me think "Damn, Harmy's English is better than most native speakers!" (LINK) Maybe it's just me but that's the most endearing post Harmy's ever written.

chyron8472 said:

Empire had the least number of changes

Actually, Empire had the most changes of the OT, but those changes were almost entirely barely-noticeable recomps and such, so it seems like a lot of it was left alone--but it wasn't.  Can we take this to another thread?  I love to hate on the SE's as much as the next guy, but this seems like a pretty unproductive derail.

Well I'm interested in the '80 ESB mix and the '83 ROTJ mix whenever they're ready enough to share, if not totally complete.