I was including the movie in my consideration. It's fourth from the bottom of the complete list for me, so it doesn't make the top six. But in this company, fourth from the bottom is still pretty good. YMMV, obviously.
Objects in Space
Out of Gas
Serenity (Pilot)
Our Mrs. Reynolds
Jaynestown
Ariel
World domination map updated, more to come soon.
msycamore said:
You can find the theatrical subtitle timings for GOUT in my script here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Greedo-Jabba-subtitles-theatrical-placement-and-fonts/topic/11463/
It was based on Video Collector's "theater performance" - Jedi bootleg.
I was wondering about those... so all of the Jedi sub timings are based on authoritative references? I guess I was thinking we were using Empire of Dreams exclusively and only had a subset.
Puggo, could you help with some subtitle questions?
The first question is an easy one: how do the ROTP burnt-in subtitles spell "Wookiee"? Please oh please tell me we're not about to have a new canon spelling ;)
The second question is harder to figure out how to answer precisely. What are the ROTP burnt-in subtitle timings? But since my project is GOUT-synced, I'll have to figure out a way to convert your frames to GOUT-timed equivalents, and any help would be appreciated there too...
I dunno, I'm clearly biased because I hate the SE's categorically, but I figure if you tolerated the changes made in '97, the other changes since then are just gravy. On the revisionism train, if you were already in for a mile, you're in for another inch and a half.
A few (ridiculous) audio changes and a (ridiculous) boulder? Please. It's not even on the same order of magnitude as dinosaurs roaming Mos Eisley and CGI Jabba. It's like Lucasfilm has relegated the task of destroying film history to its interns.
Why some people were apparently cool with Jedi Rocks but were suddenly up in arms about Vader's "Nooo" was always kinda baffling to me. If I knew anyone who walked out of the theatre in 1997 happy, I'd have no hesitation recommending the Blu-rays to them.
Do you mind, Frink? We're trying to work here. This thread's not gonna derail itself, you know.
According to that Laserschwert link at the top of this page, you need to trim 36ms off the beginning of the PAL ROTJ track (after slowdown) to sync with our preservations (Harmy, etc). You probably already discovered this, but I wanted to point it out.
The Bad is Strong with that one.
I have no special knowledge, other than what he's posted publically. The way I interpret what he's posted is:
- His current priority is cleaning up the '77 digital stereo mix, hopefully in time for Harmy's next release.
- He will continue to work on various projects if for nothing else than to practice his skills (i.e. he's not packing it in after this).
In the no-evidence speculation department, I would personally expect his next projects to be 2.0 versions of his ESB/ROTJ 5.1 purist mixes, because I believe he's said they have occasional phase problems, and ROTJ also has the sync problem--as well as any other tweaks he might have in mind. I think as far as stereo tracks go, the '77 digital stereo one was a bit of a special case, because it was already so close to perfect but for a few very noticeable problems, and was leaps and bounds better than previous 77 stereo tracks. I find the ESB and ROTJ digital stereo tracks to be more incremental improvements, and teeceezy's tracks are unlikely to contain any glaring audible problems like the current 77 digital stereo track.
Or you could just ask him ;)
The correct answer is: "Never again."
Since you seem to be syncing non-theatrical mixes too, it's worth mentioning that although hairy_hen is working on fixing up the '77 stereo track, I doubt he has similar plans for the '85 and '93 mixes for Star Wars.
The Nerd said:
CatBus said:
You're not getting agreement here. Ultimately it's subjective, but the original, while cheap looking, serves its purpose as a quick establishing shot. The revised versions are far too distracting from that purpose with their unnecessary and silly animations.
Just to make sure, I mean the shot that show the speeder going from front to back screen. Up to the part with the the SE droid dropping the pipe. The pipe dropping droid and one is a big no-no, but the improved speeder shot is an improvement.
Yeah, I know the shot you mean. The screenshots you provide actually have the silly little scurring animals etc in them--but they are not as distracting in your screenshot because they are not moving. In motion, the revised shot is definitely worse IMO. Parts of the shot are improved, I agree (I don't necessarily like all of the speeder changes either, but I'll throw a bone here), but taken as a whole, the shot was better in '77. Again, this is all a matter of opinion, but I truly and strongly prefer the original version of this shot.
Ben Burt added a noise in the '93 laserdisc mix. All the SE mixes also have an added noise. As far as I know there was no sound before that, as most scenes with stormtrooper armor had all their sound done in post because the armor made too much noise.
There's definitely a sound that coincides with the trooper hitting his head on the 77 stereo/surround mix, as those are the only ones I really listen to. The sound isn't really that different from the footstep noises though, so it may well be a well-timed footstep I'm hearing instead of a head bonk. Either way, I don't see the need to add a different sound there. Why should an armored head hitting a hard door sound much different than an armored foot hitting a hard floor?
I haven't yet found anyone who likes the Director's Cut better. You're in good company.
The Nerd said:
Well, what about that shot of entering Mos Eisley? I don't mean the extended intro, but the shot that shows them on the speeder.
The original looks very cheap. R2 looks like he could fall of at any moment.
http://i.imgur.com/0QffC9l.jpg
The 1997 looks better, but C-3PO's arms are is awfully straight.
http://i.imgur.com/3DJD01x.jpg
The 2004/2011 version is the best. Apart from C-3PO's left arm looking straight.
You're not getting agreement here. Ultimately it's subjective, but the original, while cheap looking, serves its purpose as a quick establishing shot. The revised versions are far too distracting from that purpose with their unnecessary and silly animations. While the speeder itself looks better as a still image, the shot is worse as part of the film. And that's really what's wrong with much of the changes--even when they do manage to improve the look of a particular part of the shot, they often screw up other aspects of the shot, or mess with the pacing so badly that the whole thing falls apart. Unfortunately, aside from the credit for JEJ, I truly believe the best case scenario for SE changes is when they failed to make the film worse. Making it better isn't really in the cards. It's the editing that made the originals great, and it's the editing in particular where the SE's always fall apart.
Most people think that Episode V is the best Special Edition. The new Tampa scenes, and the new Imperial scenes are well needed.
Disagree again. ESB is the best SE, because it has the fewest noticeable changes. All of the changes you do notice are for the worse, however, IMO.
The clunk sound added when the Stormtrooper hits his head was just great. I never noticed that a trooper hit his head before (with or without the sound). My old piano teacher pointed it out to me.
There was always a noise when the stormtrooper hit his head, more of a crack than a clunk. Maybe they made it louder.
Credit for James Earl Jones was good.
Everything else was crap.
That certainly would be easiest. Anyone happen to have that track?
AntcuFaalb said:
Anyone interested in a release?
YES!
Er. Mayyybe...
Found the link: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Preserving-German-Original-Trilogy/post/549753/#TopicPost549753
He doesn't specify the language(s), but it'd be odd to say English and German voices not being in sync was "weird" (I'd take that as a given). I assumed he was talking about PAL English and NTSC English, because that makes Laserschwert's statement most logical (and Lucasfilm's behavior least logical, which works for my predefined biases)
Mavimao said:
If we're talking about dubbed versions then that is a whole different story! When a film is being dubbed ALL of the foley has to be redone from scratch since they can't use the on location sound due to dialogue.
I'll try to find the link--he was talking about the English version (German isn't available on NTSC discs)
I agree it'd be dumb to re-ADR everything. But that doesn't mean it wasn't done...
Mavimao said:
There's different ADR in PAL regions? I find that hard to believe.
I haven't verified this myself. But I believe if you check Laserschwert's German preservation thread, you'll find mention of it. Maybe it's only for Star Wars, not the whole trilogy.
My 2.0 sync varies probably more than you'd like, and the PAL ROTJ sync slowed down will (I think) vary from NTSC sources on the dialogue due to the different ADR.
Your best bet on a reference AFAIK is my 5.1 hairy_hen remix, most of the sync is very reliable (because I didn't do it!), except for the <1 second of audio that I put in, which may vary by a few ms either way. But that <1 second is probably what you're looking for...
If you want it, PM me and I can deliver it in AC3 format. The trick is you'd have to downmix it to stereo, and that may cause its own complications.
Honestly you'd probably get the best results by using an NTSC sync (which you presumably already have) and adding/deleting the frames yourself. Or you could release it synced to NTSC (w/ perfect sync) and let others make PAL-framecount-synced versions (with looser quality control).
I made a PAL ROTJ-synced 1983 LD track, but frankly I wouldn't trust it to be anything but a rough guide--my work is a little on the amateur side. Oh, and I made a PAL-adjusted 5.1 track based on hairy_hen's. That might be better, as the amateur stuff is limited to the frames I edited.
EDIT: Also, I believe Laserschwert found that the official ROTJ PAL track had been re-ADR'd, so the sound effects lined up perfectly with NTSC once you made the frames match, but the dialogue drifted slightly in and out of sync. Weird. I don't think there's any need to re-create that.
rockin said:
http://www.xylonhd.com/home/2012/9/16/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-comparison-pix.html
Anyone seen this?
Seems like a good comparison of all the different sources.
Sure shows off the WOWOW source, almost always clearly the best image, distinctly different from DVD/H.264 on the one end (too blue) and Blu-ray (too gold) on the other. Now I've seen enough to say even though Blu-ray beats DVD/H.264 (discolored in a preferable manner), WOWOW is the way to go (not very discolored at all). And now I'm sad I don't have the WOWOW version :(
EDIT: If only there were a way to do a gold tint transplant, we could fix the Blu-rays for Raiders and Do the Right Thing simultaneously.
xhonzi said:
It always shows the Holiday Special, regardless of what you're borrowing.
I'm now imagining a vending machine from Hell that dispenses the Holiday Special, regardless of what you try to borrow...