Oh I know. There's definitely going to have to be some sort of sanity checking of any adjustments, but I thought it could be a good first step.
AntcuFaalb said:
The 1985 CAV P&S LD of The Empire Strikes Back might be a good color reference.
I know that the 1985 CAV P&S LD of A New Hope has surprisingly-accurate colors, as it was pressed from a 1982 master.
Would it be possible to see some screencaps of both? i.e. using the Star Wars caps, we could see if there's any global problems to that master/transfer (such as desaturation, weak yellows, poor contrast, etc) because we have such good references there. Then we could look at the Empire screencaps and see if it could possibly be that we could apply the same global fixes there. Just a thought.
Speaking of audio, Belbucus' Audio Resources seem to be missing many critical parts AFAICT (it's pretty old). If anyone can help, let me know.
For those still not quite sure what the difference is between Andrea's project and my own, it's the old and sometimes controversial distinction between "subtitles" and "dubtitles".
Dubs are rarely literal translations of the original dialogue and necessarily introduce some changes. My project's subs attempt to be literal translations of the English audio; this project would create subs that literally match the dubs. Both are "literal", but based on two different audio references. Feel free to use any of my subs as a starting point or reference if it would help.
yoda-sama said:
What I'm wondering is in what aspects exactly does it best it? ...did they somehow mess up how things sound in general; are the audio channels perhaps messed up, or something sound weird throughout, etc.?
I think an audio guy might have a more technically accurate description of what they did, but in 2004, they really screwed up the audio globally, and they never really undid it. It's really screwed up for sure, but I can't say which knobs the audio guy couldn't stop messing with. All I know is they should have fired him for the 2006 DVDs, and they appear to have promoted him so he could do the Blu-rays. The 97 mix wasn't bad, except for the SE changes.
yoda-sama said:
...in '77 in a backwater theater that only had the mono track...
Actually in '77, I believe the term for that sort of theatre was a typical theatre. But yeah, times change and I think that of the original mixes, the 70mm mix has aged best, YMMV.
michaelkirschner said:
So let me ask you guys a question. If I was a Star Wars purist what is the definitive audio track? I have heard that The Beatles in mono is considered the "pure" experience over the stereo track, is this similar for Star Wars or are all audio options equal?
Depends on how you define purist, I'm afraid. All three 77 mixes are original, the rest is arguing over relatively minor details.
msycamore said:
Alderaan shooting first is the worst IMO.
I dunno, for me it's about even with Luke biting the Rancor first.
SilverWook said:
Eddie 2 was an ill conceived follow up when the original film (which didn't make a dent at the box office) became popular on cable and home video, and the soundtrack sold well. I can't even think of a song from the sequel off the top of my head.
I hope you realize we've both just seriously dated ourselves. Now I've got "On the Dark Side" in my head.
Man, and I thought Eddie and the Cruisers 2 epitomized pointless sequels.
analog said:
I thought Harmy had given up on including the 85 stereo mix, as it needed to still be GOUT synched?
Molly synced an LD rip to the GOUT, I haven't done any painstaking verification, but it seems pretty good. It may have imperfect sync or small dropouts here and there, but some of our other tracks seem to as well so I guess that's not unusual.
Harmy--if the lossless file is too big and you don't already have the 85 mix in lossy, I have an AC3 of the same. PM me if you need it.
hairy_hen said:
Thus far in the digital version I have identified 13 audio dropouts, two instances of pitch distortion due to tape damage, and one spot in which the entire stereo image shifts radically to the left due to the right channel dropping in level before returning to what it should be.
Jesus, good ears!
As soon as I have more time I'll be taking care of this, and then uploading DTS-HD MA encodes of the stereo, mono, and '93 mixes for use on the upcoming Bluray. The '85 and 70mm mixes have been provided already, I believe. There is a slight problem in that I'm not actually able to listen to the resulting files once they're encoded, but since I have the official DTS software and its verification capability, there shouldn't be any problems.
That all sounds fantastic. I provided the '85 stereo mix with a minimal 255k core. If that was a bad call, feel free to override me, I don't mind.
chyron8472 said:
I'm sorry, I just find the additions to the Bluray release bordering on offensive.
No need to apologize. I doubt you'd find many here who don't feel similarly or more strongly on this matter. It's why we're here.
animemaakuo said:
I don't have the official Blu-ray on me right now, is the audio difference fairly noticeable?
Yes, and the 6-channel reconstruction used by Harmy is always distinctly better. I don't think it's even subjective.
Please read:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Notes-on-Piracy-Please-Read/forum/17/topic/13347/
If you buy used copies, Lucasfilm won't see it as a sale of their crap offering. Also, damaged discs may be available at a discount for those who have no intention of ever watching them. I've found that gluing all of the Blu-rays together and throwing away the cases allows them to take up less room.
I only have one question I'd want answered by a sequel trilogy:
Why was the sequel trilogy made?
Considering that the Star Wars film saga, as far as anyone cared about it, was fully resolved and closed in 1983, what exactly is the point of adding to a story that's already done? What we really do not need is another three movies that cannot even justify their own existence let alone entertain us.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but one of the best things about ROTJ was that it ended the story. Not necessarily well, or entirely satisfactorily, but it ended the story nonetheless. It will be hard to write past that ending.
The GOUT transfer is generally pink-shifted, desaturated, and overly bright compared to the better color references Harmy used. This is due to the GOUT being based on a different print on different filmstock, the fading properties of that filmstock, and just the way it was scanned so many years ago.
Also Harmy tried to adjust the badly mangled Blu-ray colors to match his references, and sometimes he was less successful than other times. He wasn't starting off from a clean, good scan, so there are occasional imperfections. Not that it didn't still result in the best-looking transfer I've ever seen.
TV's Frink said:
The five minute chapter has something to do with AVCHD.
It's the default chapter setting in tsmuxer, if you forget to/don't add your own chapter list. Harmy does already have real chapter stops for the Blu-ray.
Harmy, please consider including a warning in the future that people should not wear their best pants when viewing this. Thanks.
yoda-sama said:Wow, this gives me some inspiration on how to one day approach this with my future children... I've been wondering about it for a while, really hate dubs and haven't been wanting to introduce such things to them in what I feel is sub-par/wrong version.
I was totally trying not to further add to this thread derail. Did everyone notice how good I was being? For like half an hour, even. Nevertheless, don't get too excited about the prospect of your kid liking subbed movies. My oldest boy also didn't mind watching (coincidentally!) subbed Kiki when he was three. Now he's five and he has no patience at all for it. Perhaps because he can read now, but not fast enough to keep up, and the subs are frustrating for him.
What is good one day can be bad the next, that's parenthood. Also don't get excited about your toddler who's not at all afraid of swimming, or who likes eating vegetables. Things change. Every day! Then they change back again just to throw you off.
jdshald said:
ok thanks catbus. and thanks for doing the subs for 2.1 release btw.
ps do you like watching my neighbor totoro in english dub or in japanese with subs. lol just wondering. kinda a studio ghibli fan. the only ghibli films I don't watch with subtitles are howl's moving castle, my neighbor totoro and castle in the sky. All the rest I prefer it in Japanese besides Nausicaa which I like watching in french with English subs.
I've got young kids, so while I prefer to watch everything subbed (and I'm even one of those snooty ones who also prefers the literal subs on the Japanese discs), I'll be watching with dubs exclusively for many, many years and they may grow on me. FWIW I do like one dub--the French dub for Porco Rosso is phenomenally good. I often choose to watch that movie dubbed in French with English subs (I don't know any French). Okay, back on-topic ;)
jdshald said:
Will there be any difference in picture quality between the more compressed avchd and the blu ray which will be released later?
Tons. The AVCHD is MUCH more compressed than the Blu-ray will be--as it has to be to fit on a DVD9. If previous releases are anything to go by, consider the AVCHD to be approximately Netflix HD stream quality, compared to the Blu-ray.
The good stuff is yet to come, pending what problems people might find on the AVCHD.
I've got a question about those commentaries. I understand what you did with the Laserdisc commentary, but what did you do to the other commentaries to get them to sync? Wouldn't they all at the very least have chopped off bits here and there due to the SE sections? Just wondering... seems kinda miraculous. And if it really is seamless, I'm wondering if the same method could be used to get an audio descriptive track for ESB and ROTJ.
Buster D said:
CatBus said:
SpilkaBilka said:
CatBus said:
Space Kaijuu said:
Will the Blu-Ray version of 2.1 have the 1985 laserdisc remix?
We are trying to package this up for Harmy ATM. I'm hopeful.
Awesome, glad to hear it. How's that going? Been away the last few days, haven't been keeping up with this or the 1985 thread. Thanks so much for your efforts, and I'm sorry I have absolutely no skills to contribute to this! :)
This is done now, and I've sent Harmy a link. DTS-MA lossless stereo FWIW.
What's the bitrate, BTW? I've noticed a lot of Blu-rays with stereo DTS-MA 2.0 that are higher bitrate than what they would be if they were just LPCM 2.0, but I assume that's because the core DTS was a full 1.5 MBPS.
I don't recall the combined bitrate, but I used a minimal core (255kbps), so it's the smallest possible bitrate my encoder could make.
No and yes, respectively.