Verrry doubtful. Every few weeks on AVS somebody claims to have somehow gotten a Blu-ray without the green tint. The difference is not in the video, it's in the viewer's ability to discern the problem. I'm nearly positive it's the same "difference" with the iTunes version.
IIRC all 1.0 editions were primarily sourced on a 720p HDTV SE capture. 2.0 switches that to BD. Both are 720p HD.
Sounds great. Found 1 definite and 2 possible glitches (reported to Teeceezy already), but that's very minor. The next release should be a keeper! (I for one plan to throw out my previous 1980 stereo LD sync and wholesale replace with this one)
AntcuFaalb said:
It's still perfectly acceptable now.
Okay, overstatement on my part. They were normal and even expected back then. They are not normal now.
People didn't pass-up Prometheus because of this blunder: http://faildesk.net/2012/06/12/prometheus-runs-on-windows-7/
That's not a flaw. That's a subtle editorial statement about how long some corporations will hold out before deploying Windows 8.
timdiggerm said:
penguinofgreatness said:
(With the exception of the snake reflection. Why?!)
Like removing fuzzy matte-boxes, it's removing something that would not have been visible to theater-goers during the original run. Darker projection makes a huge difference in what is visible.
It was visible in the original theatrical run (there was a little geeky chatter about it even then--"hey! guess how they did this shot! you can see the reflection!"). It just wasn't a big deal, and it continued to not be a big deal when it was visible on VHS and Laserdisc. Yes, I am old and saw this movie lots of times in the theatre.
Modern audiences expect their visual effects to be flawless. Past audiences merely expected visual effects to be convincing. We used to see reflections, boom mikes, obvious matte paintings, and even occasionally wires and that was perfectly acceptable to most people at the time. This really is a cut-and-dry case of changing a movie to fit changing popular aesthetic sensibilities.
dvdmike said:
Somewhere in between may be the perfect mix.
I do not have photoshop on this machine, anyone want to make a hybrid shot?
If the images were better aligned, we could just take one image and put the other image over it as a semitransparent layer. Adjusting the opacity would then tell us how close to make it to which source (assuming we could find a range that looked good that we could more-or-less agree on!). Then we could try to figure out how to reach that target using only one of the sources and some adjustments.
The flag shot is badly misaligned and the sunset shot doesn't have any neutrals or skintones for even attempting to gauge "correct". IIRC there's another shot someone posted in the AVS forums with Indy and Sallah at lunch that would be a good gauge (and it also showcases the DVD blue problem). Having that shot and the flag shot aligned better may be useful, but I'm crap at such things. The sunset shot is likely to remain subjective, but I suppose we could run it through the process as a sanity check.
EDIT: Presumably we'd have to use adjusted WOWOW for the brightened opening even if we used adjusted Blu for everything else, to undo the loss of detail on the Blu. And then there's the matter of doing some sort of crazy Laserdisc upscaling for the erased effects scenes.
FWIW, I'm throwing my hat into the ring on the side of the Blu-ray is certainly too yellow/gold, but I also find the DVD is too blue (haven't seen the HDTV aside from screencaps). I find the yellow/gold tint to be a preferable choice of two discolorations, but I'm under no illusions that it's accurate.
IMO we simply have to have a better source (16mm or whatnot) to be certain. My wild-ass guess would place the colors between DVD and Blu-ray, but closer to DVD. That seems counterintuitive, but I think a little shift in the blue direction can seem more wrong than a big shift in the yellow direction, which is why, to me, the DVD is closer to accurate but I still prefer the Blu. Does that make sense?
You kids better get off my lawn before my uncontrollable sobbing stops.
They're just raw Laserdisc sides. AFAIK, the original archive contains only four GOUT synced tracks--SW 77 digital stereo, and the three commentary tracks. It's also worth noting that I believe the archive syncs to a very odd GOUT-ish standard for ROTJ: a hybrid PAL/NTSC framecount that includes all frames from both versions. It's only off by one frame from PAL though, and for commentary that's more than close enough.
lpd said:
The best bits on that disc for colour reference is the split seconds of TESB, it looks great.
Well, if anyone can post caps of these, Harmy's fishing for ESB color references. Even a few frames could be useful.
That I'm not sure about. He should respond soon enough if we keep taking his name in vain though.
Teeceezy has reported to be almost done with ESB, and maybe also almost done with ROTJ synced to NTSC (not PAL?). I imagine he'll be making something available soon.
Well, my personal favorite was when we got you to blow up over flesh tones.* But it stands out because you are otherwise always so level-headed and reasonable. Which, I might add, is just unnatural considering the anarchy of conflicting demands and non-sequiturs we put in this thread for you to sift through.
You are not a big meanie, even at your grumpiest. The reason we like to get your goat is because it's so hard to get.
* Also, this particular rant made me think "Damn, Harmy's English is better than most native speakers!" (LINK) Maybe it's just me but that's the most endearing post Harmy's ever written.
chyron8472 said:
Empire had the least number of changes
Actually, Empire had the most changes of the OT, but those changes were almost entirely barely-noticeable recomps and such, so it seems like a lot of it was left alone--but it wasn't. Can we take this to another thread? I love to hate on the SE's as much as the next guy, but this seems like a pretty unproductive derail.
Well I'm interested in the '80 ESB mix and the '83 ROTJ mix whenever they're ready enough to share, if not totally complete.
guiser said:
Or could the files be stored right in another directory in the Blu-ray (only visible if the image is mounted or the disc is viewed as data)? I thought this was possible with DVD, but have never heard of doing it with Blu-ray.
I'm sure it's possible, but Harmy has indicated space on a BD25 may be tight. Also, he has provided sub-free versions of those scenes to people who needed them in the past--I'm sure he'd do it again.
I'm not sure I ever got the exact timecode for the error, down to the millisecond. All of my work (amateur) has a fudge factor of a few ms (I don't notice anything less than two frames off, but I like to think it never got nearly that bad). As long as I couldn't hear the sync drift, I didn't care.
You could probably post in the technical howto forum, how to get the exact timecode of a particular frame. But if you can't get that, consider that neither of these edit points is particularly critical in the A/V sync department, except that they make the frame count match down the road.
If it helps, see this post here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548
AntcuFaalb said:
It's FatherSkywalker, a.k.a., Sam.
D'oh! Can't believe I didn't notice that at first. Yes, that's a positive ID, seconded.
If I spelled it like it sounded again, I'd say he said "siyyown sweetheart".
He was drunk.
But I see where msycamore gets "silence" from. If you blend the words, the first word can be "siyyowns".
He forgot to say original vision. Deduct two points.
Well, you already know my take on that one, so are you fishing for a second (third) opinion?
Yep, I still hear "over" too. Although honestly it's more like " 'fer my dead body." C'mon, Harrison, enunciate!
EDIT: Definitely "over". If you are kind of hoarse after, say, a long day of shooting, the "o" can come out unvoiced, and the "v", if also unvoiced, sounds like an "f". He finally got his voice back on the "er".
Oh, and if you're just releasing your final versions, MySpleen is the place. For test versions and feedback, any random web hoster will do.
If you're pressed for time, I'd leave Star Wars alone. hairy_hen is at work on that and he's spotted an amazing number of problems (me? I spotted 2...)
chyron8472 said:
Yeah, I read that Harmy said it would. I was just sort of continuing the conversation.
The issue for me really seems to be specifically with Bluray subtitles (PGS) when converting to MKV. DVD subs would work fine.
DVD subs would function, but they would have lots of aliasing compared to PGS, due to not enough colors/alpha to do curves and diagonals. I've done DVD subs for one of Chewtobacca's DVD projects, and while I think they look as good as DVD subs can look, they don't really fool anyone about being original theatrical subs. To sharp, too defined, too regular, too aliased. Burnt-in would have been better.