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CP3S

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12-Jan-2011
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2-Mar-2022
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Post
#624457
Topic
Religion
Time

darth_ender said:

CP3S said:

darth_ender said:

I think the Bible is actually very clear that not everything from God is perfect.  In specific, what the Bible implies in various places God's greatest creation, that being mankind, is also clearly pointed out to be quite flawed.  And if his greatest creations are flawed, why is it so hard to believe that the message given to and received by and interpreted by those flawed creatures is imperfect?

I didn't mean to say everything from God is perfect, I meant that the Bible claims that God's message is perfect.

And it is.  But the Bible is not.

But the Bible itself claims to be all those things. Since it makes those claims, which we are both in agreement are not true, it clearly contains some very blatant falsehoods. This book, which we both agree contains falsehoods, is the only source for the idea of a perfect man dying as a sacrifice for our sins and coming back to life three days later. This idea of a divine sacrifice followed by a resurrection to prove its divinity is the entire premise of Christianity. Once the integrity of this source material is admitted to being flawed, which again, I am grateful we are in agreement on, how can anything it says be taken with more than a grain of salt? What if the narrative of the resurrection is a lie, as the Bible's own claim to being the perfect word of God is a lie?

Again, with the acceptance that the Bible is flawed and full of falsehoods, the entire house of cards starts to collapse. Who can ever say what of it is true and what of it is flawed? This has to put the very basis of Christianity into serious question. Without the divine sacrifice and the resurrection, Christianity as a religion is meaningless.

Post
#624451
Topic
Religion
Time

darth_ender said:

I know the context of the verse.  The Sabbath was a blessing, and still is in my mind.  Goodness, I'm working in a framework that is a little difficult for me, because I see things somewhat differently than the rest of Christianity.  But look at it this way: God created laws that indeed conformed with mankind's expectations.  He worked with the tools he had in the day.  He even gave commandments that seem harsh by today's standards, but were the expectation of the day.  He was giving his law to a rebellious people (emphasis on people, as in human), through a person (i.e. fallible human).  He gave them what they could understand.

I can't buy that. In Jesus' time, those were still the expectations of the day, yet the message changes to a message of peace, and it took to a good degree, despite it being counter cultural and against the norms of the time. It is remarkable, in that Christianity did have a profound affect on the world around it, even carrying on into today.

I think it is far easier to conclude that the writers constructed a God that fit their standards and the message they wanted to convey or the rules that they wanted followed, rather than to claim God sunk down to the standards of those he was commanding. I don't see how telling a recently enslaved and mistreated people that it is now their turn to kill, conquer, enslave, and mistreat served any kind of greater purpose when he could have easily taught and commanded them to be above that.

He had no problems commanding them to toss out other standard practices of the time, such as that of idolatry, and to order death upon those who failed to leave these practices behind.

Post
#624446
Topic
Religion
Time

darth_ender said:

I think the Bible is actually very clear that not everything from God is perfect.  In specific, what the Bible implies in various places God's greatest creation, that being mankind, is also clearly pointed out to be quite flawed.  And if his greatest creations are flawed, why is it so hard to believe that the message given to and received by and interpreted by those flawed creatures is imperfect?

I didn't mean to say everything from God is perfect, I meant that the Bible claims that God's message is perfect.

 

That said, picking the good out of the bad, I could take this more specifically into LDS doctrine, but allow me to say in more general terms that the Bible tells us that those who have testimonies of Christ have the "spirit of prophecy."  This means that we each have some degree of access to the mind of God.  Obviously, we have been commanded to disregard certain laws in our day.  But on things that are more vague, I think that the humble seeker can gain some understanding of what is right and what is wrong.

So, the "spirit of prophecy" solves it for the LDS. But what about those countless denominations on every street corner throughout the Bible belt, and much of the US, who can't agree with each other on the Bible's message enough to share a building together? I suppose your answer would be that they haven't seen the truth yet as they are missing an important piece of the puzzle by rejecting The Book of Mormon and other important religious texts.

 

And now, for preemptive purpose:

What about those fundamentalists who feel God wants them to bomb abortion clinics?  What about those who believe God commanded them to rape or murder someone?  Etc., etc.

None of that is in the Bible, so it has more to do with mental stability and/or justification and less to do with being misguided by ancient Holy book.

 

Post
#624441
Topic
Religion
Time

darth_ender said:

Let me at least state that it is often easy to judge another people of an ancient culture by today's standards.  Let's assume that God (with a capital G, even if we don't believe in him, because he is a proper noun) really does exist.  Let's assume that mankind will be around for another 300 years without any Second Coming of Christ.  With that assumption we can safely assume that mankind will have drastically changed his understanding of right and wrong, good and evil, of morals in general.  I ask you, do you think God would judge mankind today by the standards of humanity's 300 year in the future morality?  I think not.

That all has nothing at all to do with what is being said. You quoted Jesus talking about the Sabbath, being a day that God himself commanded capitol punishment for failed observance to. It has nothing to do with ancient cultures versus modern cultures and their understandings of right and wrong. A man collected firewood on the Sabbath, and God told Moses he was to be stoned to death. I found it ironic you'd use a verse on the Sabbath to explain your understanding of God's desire for us to be happy. Again, I doubt much happiness was found by that man, his family he was trying to keep warm, or the countless people to come after him who were stoned for breaking this law. 

 

Just because God commanded the stoning of ancient adulterers and Sabbath-breakers doesn't mean that God ever approved of cruelty or senseless killing.  Again, he was working with a culture and people who saw the world very differently than we do today.  He gave commandments that they could understand.

So, you're saying God was forced to order these people to be brutally murdered, because they were too dumb to understand anything different? It never crossed his mind not to make up silly laws forbidding them from doing anything on a certain day and commanding his people to kill each other when that law was broken?

Post
#624316
Topic
Video Games - a general discussion thread
Time

zombie84 said:

I think if Sony or MS actually tried to implement such a feature it would be halted by the supreme court.

A lot of games already do this. I think everything published by EA is this way anymore. Battlefield 3, which was a very major release, came with a one use code that gave you access to the full online multiplayer, and this is a game people really only buy for the multiplayer. If you buy a used copy you have to purchase an online pass for $10, otherwise you only get to play what is essentially a limited demo version that caps your level. Assassin's Creed III requires an online pass too, but at least with that one the online play is more of a bonus feature than the main event.

 

It's the sole reason I never once recommended people to buy an Xbox 360 when you could be playing the same--and more often than not better--games online with the PS3 for free.

I used to begrudge the fact that Xbox users have to pay for Xbox Live while Sony was decent enough to provide their services for free, I always thought that if I ever got a Playstation 3 I'd completely drop Xbox Live and make that my primary online system. Then I finally bought one and have never thought twice about paying for Xbox Live again, it is SOOO far superior to what Sony has to offer. I'll gladly pay a premium for smooth, nearly flawless online multiplayer with virtually no outages. In this case, you honestly get what you pay for, Playstation Network is a joke.

As far as more often than not better games? Most games are identical cross platform games, with Playstation exclusives being far and few in between. Playstation exclusives do look gorgeous, but I can't even think of any really popular online PS3 exclusives.

Post
#624260
Topic
Oscars 2013
Time

TheBoost said:

Like a teenage boy sagging his jeans, Tarantino put just as much decision into looking like he didn't care for everyone watching as someone would put into looking like they care. His rebellion is just as much an artifice as anyone else's conformity. 

For sure! I never use a comb, but I take longer to do my hair in the mornings than a lot of my guy friends do to get my messy hair look. We're still projecting an image. It is about presentation.

Post
#624258
Topic
Oscars 2013
Time

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

 

I mean, we're literally a country that was built on rebellion. It resonates with us. Screw the bow tie and that top button! Who cares? They are such silly social conventions anyway. Why do we wear dumb superficial pieces of cloth around our necks anyway? When you stop and think about it, it is all rather silly.

well, next time you are interviewing for an important job, show up looking like Tarantino and see how far you get.

I've shown up to important job interviews wearing converse with my suit, my hair uncombed, and no tie. I've gotten more than one job like this.

For my most recent job interview, my now boss showed up in track pants and a t-shirt, and complimented my shoes. Considering his position and the job, I was surprised. Times, they are a-changin'.

 

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

       The idea behind the tux is to make men as indifferent from one another as possible. They all wear a uniform so that no one will notice their clothing. That way, all attention is focused on the women and their spectaclular attire.

That's why there were so many beards.

that's another thing.   Men need to learn how to shave.  I have no objection to a beard, but either grow a beard or shave.   Don't have something in between(unless you are in the process of growing a beard), it makes you look like a bum.

My stubble beard gets me laid.

Post
#624143
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

bkev said:

A little.

I am SO SO sick of getting sick. God dammit. I've been back at school less than a month and this is the second time. I've been taking emergen-c and stuff, so I don't get why this keeps happening to me. My immune system isn't particularly weak, that I know of...

Wow, dude, your immune system is fine. Over dosing on vitamin C isn't going to make you any less sick, that isn't how the immune system works. You're only wasting your money and helping keep those emergen-c shysters in business. If you really want to buy into the whole kooky vitamin c helps you get unsick/keeps you from getting sicker hokum, then just invest in oranges. They're cheaper, they taste better, they have actual health benefits, and their producers don't have to lie to people to sell them.    

Post
#624137
Topic
Oscars 2013
Time

Warbler said:

Maybe this makes me odd, but can someone explain Quentin Tarantino to me?  Why does he always show up at the Oscars looking like a slob?   Does it cause him horrible pain and suffering to button the top button of his shirt and tighten the tie all the way up and groom his hair a little?   Btw, to Mr Tarantino and other men: you are supposed to where a bow tie with Tux.  I hate people that think they are too cold to dress up appropriately for events.      

I'm the guy who discovered society now lets us get away with wearing Converse with business suits and who stopped combing his hair entirely about five years ago, so... I for one cannot answer your question.

Also, I think Tarantino is kind of a cool.

People like counter culture and contrarians. I mean, we're literally a country that was built on rebellion. It resonates with us. Screw the bow tie and that top button! Who cares? They are such silly social conventions anyway. Why do we wear dumb superficial pieces of cloth around our necks anyway? When you stop and think about it, it is all rather silly.

Post
#624136
Topic
Video Games - a general discussion thread
Time

I hope it is something left up to software companies and not a feature that gets forced via console. I have no problem not buying games from companies that pull that crap. I know, I know, I get the whole not making money on used games thing, it sucks, but it has been part of the industry since the beginning. A lot of us just simply wouldn't play games if we had to pay $60 dollars for each one. It is a habit I enjoy, but I could live without it if it came down to it.

I'd someday like to buy the new Xbox, but if that ends up being part of it, count me out. '

 

@bkev, you know you could just download your profile to your friend's Xbox and get the full functionality as long as your profile is logged in along side his. I used to do this all the time with COD map packs and downloaded games.

Post
#624059
Topic
Violent Video Games
Time

thejediknighthusezni said:

     I wonder whether GTA is producing drivers with greater situational awareness and ability to act.

Oh, I had forgotten about that! GTA has never been my type of game and I've never really had any interest in it, but for some reason I did get into Vice City for a while. It marks one game where I did notice an effect on my behavior, I found it tempting to drive faster and more aggressively. I've always been a really safe driver, and these urges were easy to control, but I did notice them. It did not however, give me any urges to kill hookers, run over pedestrians, run from or shoot cops, or sell drugs from the back of ice cream trucks.

Post
#624056
Topic
Violent Video Games
Time

TheBoost said:

timdiggerm said:

Just so you guys know, Bingo is using a picture from a movie that I haven't seen to communicate the idea of "stupid, silly games". In the film "The Hudsucker Proxy", they invent the hula-hoop. I'm guessing that is a design drawing of the hoop.

Specifically, I believe the line is "You know? For kids."

Talking about games with a mate at the bar, perhaps my view is skewed. He says many first person shooters are much more sci-fi, less realistic than the games I'm thinking of (which is skewed by the preferences of my nephews) and that many games are more about lazers and explosions than human faces being blown off, and would probably fall under a "Sci-Fi Violence" PG-13 rating as a movie.

No, I have to say it is way worse than PG-13 violence. Stuff like the M rated Halo I feel could easily fit into PG-13, maybe even the majority of the violence in the Call of Duty games*. But stuff like Bioshock and Left 4 Dead (both popular FPS games) are really gruesome.

 

*However, a piece of video game violence that stood out to me the most recently was a moment in COD: Modern Warfare 2 where you strangle a guy and see his wide eyes starring at you before they narrow and his eyes roll back in his head. No gore involved, but it was kind of intense.

 

NeverarGreat said:

I never understood the argument that kids need violent video games as an outlet for their hostility. I never played excessively violent video games growing up, other than Age of Empires and Warcraft 2.

I wouldn't consider Ages of Empires or Warcraft very violent at all.

I don't think kids need violent games as an outlet for hostility, but I do think they serve as a distraction and perhaps as a healthy means of venting frustrations (much like running around beating down milkweeds with a stick, or shooting targets with a BB gun, or riding a bike around the neighborhood at high speeds did for me when I was a kid). When I feel a bunch of pent up stress and frustration, I generally find fast paced action games to be cathartic. Though I rarely play games anymore, over the last three years I have found running around killing other players in Call of Duty to be a fantastic destressor, and far more healthy than the things I have been using as destressors over the last year.

Post
#624040
Topic
Video Games - a general discussion thread
Time

I have mixed feeling on this next gen. Obviously the leap from the previous gen to the current one was a pretty big one in every way, from the Xbox to the 360, from the PS2 to the PS3, from the Gamecube to the... err, never mind... But the other two were big leaps.

We saw vast improvements in graphic, HD, 3D, downloadable content, streaming media, and we saw the blessed end of the controller cord and memory card. And later in the gen we saw motion controls come into play on all systems.

What new innovations do we have coming in the next gen? So far it seems tablet and social network integration are the two big things. Do we even really care about that? I don't. Fancier graphics and other pluses that are sure to come with the more advanced hardware will certainly be nice, but it is usually a little ways into a console's life before a worthwhile library of games are available, and early launch titles aren't likely to utilize the new tech enough to make them that much more impressive than the current gen. It has been a long time since a new game has come out that has wowed us, for the last couple of years it has pretty much been more of the same, so a change up there is sure to be refreshing.

Unlike the leap from PS2's DVD player to PS3's BD player, there is no brand new media format the new systems are going to be able to play that most people don't already have a decent player for. Streaming and media serving can already be done fantastically on the current consoles. It would be nice to be able to throw MKV files onto a flashdrive and play them, which the current console's can't do, but not sure the new ones will be able to either (it is a codec licensing thing, right?), and that is easily enough worked around by streaming the files from your computer, which is a better setup anyway once you take the time to do it.

Ultimately, I just don't see any reason to spend my money on an upgrade. I have a good sized backlog of "must play" current gen games that I've yet to get around to playing, and there are a small number of games yet to be released that I am still really looking forward to (Bioshock Infinite, The Last of Us, to name two).

I have a feeling I am going to be more than content with my PS3 and 360 for the next couple of years. The fact that games for those two consoles will start dropping to last gen prices will give me a good excuse to go back and play all those big titles I never got around to.

Post
#623964
Topic
Random Thoughts
Time

sean wookie said:

Bingowings said:

sean wookie said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Bingowings said:

In my book a lack of a car is a positive like the lack of broadcast television in your home.

I've never wanted a car.

I've sometimes wished I was able to learn to drive so I could hire one once in a while but ownership of a car is a millstone, a money vampire and an environmental pollutant.

Yes, but public transportation in the USA sucks.

My fifteen minute commute to work by car takes over two hours by public transportation (bus).

We have bus systems in the Detroit area, but I've never used them.

There's an interesting experiment for you.

Plan a journey in the Detroit area and take the bus.

Calculate the time and the price and balance it against the average price of a car (tax, parking, fuel etc).

Next time you meet a fancy pants car owning internet date you can relate the findings of your experiment to her.

This is Detroit, I'd get killed just stepping into the city.

Dude, I lived there. Detroit is a big talking city, and sure it has its fair share of crime, but it isn't really the way people make it out to be (at least not anymore). I lived in a fairly poor part of the city because it was right next to where I worked, I stayed out and came home all hours of the night. It's safe enough.

The people who live in the suburbs are scared shitless of that place. It is kind of funny.

Post
#623717
Topic
Random Thoughts
Time

Never think that way. Don't sell yourself short, I've met you, you're a really cool guy capable of some very deep thinking and some really interesting discussion. You can also be pretty funny. She might even see qualities in you that she likes that you yourself are blind to. Just be yourself and be confident about it. Confidence is sexy, even if you're not feeling it, force it a little. Not saying act like an arrogant dickwad or anything, but just keep reminding yourself that you are a really great guy and you're totally worthwhile, if she fails to see that then her loss and you move onto the next one. If you feel like you're not worth her time, she might pick up on that vibe, even if it is not true. We're horrible at judging ourselves, let her be the one to decide if you are worth her time or not.

Post
#623550
Topic
Violent Video Games
Time

Davnes007 said:

 

Violent video games are an easy sale. If you shoot people, or beat them up, or anything like that, almost every 13 year old boy will want it.

However, if the game involves any thinking, or non-violent stuff, those same kids won't even try it. Sex and violence means big money. 

Examples-

"Call Of Duty: Excuse To Shoot Stuff" = Instant hit.

"Sim City: Make People Happy" = Slow Sales.

"Street Fighter 10: Blood & Boobs Edition" = Line Ups around the block.

"Test Drive HD: Quiet Sunday Drive" = 10 people bought it.

 

For the record - I think First Person Shooters are a dime a dozen, and I only like playing Grand Theft Auto because of the driving.

 

I think that is a little simplistic. Your premise seems to be that games are aimed at 13 year old boys. I believe the largest demographic of video game players are ages 18-34, with an ever increasing number of females to be found in those numbers. It makes sense for game makers to aim for this age group.

I do feel a little disturbed when I see 10 year old kids running around making Left 4 Dead references, or talking about how great Bioshock or Grand Theft Auto is. I feel like parents really need to monitor what they let their kids play, and think twice before just writing them off as silly games. It seems many of the same parents who let their 13 year old kids play GTA are the types that wouldn't let them watch rated R movies. I think this is because of the same misconception Davnes seems to be making, that games are for 13 year old boys.

Half-Life, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead 2, and Fallout 3 are probably four of the most violent games I have every played. When I first played Half-Life as a teenager, I remember the level of violence being rather shocking to me. Perhaps it makes me sound like a pansy, but after dying for the first time in that game I had to turn it off. I remember having a really weird unsettled feeling after watching my character's bloody skull roll across the screen into a pile of intestines left behind by a downed security guard. It was a borrowed copy, I decided it wasn't for me, and uninstalled it. I didn't play it again for a few years, when I found myself engulfed in a really intriguing, enjoyable, and imaginative (and yes, sometimes downright freaky) horror story.  

I felt similarly disgusted almost ten years later in one particular level of Bioshock, where a character commissions you to go kill his enemies and take pictures of their bloody corpses for him. It was pretty messed up. Bioshock may well be my favorite game of all time, and an outstanding example of video games as a medium for the delivery of art and thought provoking story telling. The messed up deprived violence of the game, and the way you as the player just go along with it doing as you are told throughout, ties into the major twist at the end of the game, causing more thoughtful players to look back on all their actions throughout the game, which ultimately delivers a pretty positive nonviolent message. The game definitely isn't aimed at thirteen year olds, and if there is a thirteen year old with the maturity and mental capacity out there who can truly wrap his brain around the story and message of the game, then they just impressed the shit out of me.

Left 4 Dead 2 is honestly a fairly mindless game centered around a generic zombie story, but its focus is in working together as a team, and if you refuse to work with your team mates, you're screwed. I think it is a great deal of fun, and I miss the days when I used to play it with Mr. and Mrs. 005 and Xhonzi. It's not aimed at little kids, and more often than not they made the game unplayable. It was only really worth playing when playing with real human team mates, and when you ended up getting paired with some squeaky voiced kid, you could pretty much expect he wasn't going to work with you and was just going to leave you for dead or run off on his own and get himself killed. 

Fallout 3 is very violent, and also covers a lot of very adult themes throughout. Nothing like this existed when I was thirteen, and I am not sure if I would have been able to get into it then or not. The game requires a lot of interaction with non-playable characters (who often use very R rated language). The game can really suck you in, it's when watching someone else play the game, you realize how slow moving it is, and how much time is spent talking to people or walking from point A to point B with very little action taking place between. I'm pretty sure my thirteen year old self was way too ADD to sit through it. Of course, I am sure there are plenty of thirteen year olds who do play it, and love it.

Bottom line, all four of these games were designed for and marketed to adult gamers. The fact that thirteen year olds get their hands on them is simply bad parenting. They do contain very heavy adult content, fortunately, adults are capable of picking and choosing entertainment appropriate for themselves. If it is too upsetting or over the top, just stay away. We've managed this for a long time, if sex upsets you, put down that erotic novel. If violence upsets you, don't watch that movie. If you don't want to see naked people having sex, turn off that porn. Unfortunately, video games have been stereotyped as toys for kids that some adults occasionally enjoy playing with. Just like other forms of entertainment, video games appeal to a large number of age groups, and their are games appropriate for each one. 

I feel like this is a big issue, and that if half the parents that willingly let their kids play these games had any clue of what content they were actually allowing their children exposure too, then they too would be a bit disturbed by it. The games are clearly marked and labeled for their content, the gaming industry has done its part, now it is in the hands of the parents.

Post
#623543
Topic
Random Thoughts
Time

TV's Frink said:

CP3S said:

Nonsense!

By that logic all we should be pumping out of our universities would be engineers and computer science majors, and other boring drones.

Someone sounds jealous.

And who would that be?

I love my degrees! With them I get to do what I really enjoy doing, live the life I want to lead, and I get to travel around and relocate when I feel like it. I wouldn't trade it.

 

TheBoost said:

CP3S said:

Nonsense!

By that logic all we should be pumping out of our universities would be engineers and computer science majors, and other boring drones.

Have you ever worked with engineers? They tend to be some of the most creative problem solving people I've ever met.

On the other hand, put me in a room with a bunch of Lit majors and I hear the same ideas constantly being regurgitated. 

Yeah, I know a lot of engineers personally, my best friend is one. I'm not knocking them by any means, we need people with those kinds of skills, the point I was trying to make was that we need more out of our universities than just an endless assembly line of engineers, medical professionals, business and CS graduates.

Never's line of reasoning that if it doesn't make anything then it isn't worth it is flawed. I agree that flying blind, not striving to make yourself marketable, and just expecting it to fall into place because you earned a degree is dumb. I think we put far too much emphasis on the college degree in American, and as a result we have a market place filled with unemployed (or underemployed) people with degrees they will never find work in.

But that doesn't mean anything not related to these high in demand fields is useless. I hear that sentiment way too often anymore, it feels like we've grown jaded, given up, and are now telling our kids if you're not going to do this, don't even bother. If someone is just flying blind and getting a degree to get a degree, then feel free to educate them on the likely reality of the situation, but these other fields still exist and are viable. I'd hate to see a value shift in our society (which I think we are starting to see) where art, social sciences, and the humanities are considered obsolete and useless. 

A college diploma shouldn't be the new high school diploma, and the government shouldn't be dishing out grants and funding to everyone interested in getting one. It should be for those ambitious enough to have an end in mind.