Bingowings

Naturally all the mock-ups shown here are mock-ups, they aren't puppets or 3D CGI models, just rough and ready illustrations of basic ideas (this one I think has merit but may be not to Adywan's taste or within the realms of what he can fit into his already busy schedule).

We are just throwing out ideas here for anyone (but in this case specifically Adywan) to use or not use because we want to help.

That's what makes coming on here fun.

doubleofive said:

12. Add AT-AT to ground battle. Impossible.

Not impossible just bloody hard work which Adywan might not want to bother with but somebody else might.

ChainsawAsh said:

12. Add AT-AT to ground battle. Don't see the point.  So, no.

Because it's there, because it's a powerful weapon and because it would look amazing if it could be done.

HotRod said:

Bingowings said:

OK my last post on this subject but I had a go myself and though it's not up to Vaderlos' high standard but here goes :

BEFORE :

AFTER :

 

Haha...How's that thing ever going to close it's mouth??

 

 

Good question (an overbite only a Brit could come up with)

The shot of Anakin makes him look even more pretty (talk about Florance of Arabia). To be a Sith lord and be taken seriously he would need to wear the mask even without barbecue.

Some of these re-colour jobs are so great and I would really love to see the footage done this way.

When it comes to the Sarlacc while I'm not too keen on the Little Shop Of Horrors stylings of the SE version I think George did have a point about it just sitting there.

Perhaps when the barge arrives at the Pit Of Carkoon there is just a pit covered with sand.

As the skiff approaches the pit the Sarlacc pushes up out of the sand and tries to reach for it like the giant squid in Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea.

It's still anchored to the desert floor (so not as mobile as the sand worms in Dune) but it can move about a bit, especially when the skiff gets damaged (it would be fun if it pulled people off the wrecked skiff with even longer tentacles in a more convincing manner).

Star Wars has too many Venus Flytrap style opportunist feeders (see the great space slug debate on the ESB:R thread) and I'm sure we could keep the frankly obscene design ethic of the OUT Sarlacc but pimp up it's action potential.

The logo designs look a treat.

I can't wait to see what the crawls would finally look like.

OK my last post on this subject but I had a go myself and though it's not up to Vaderlos' high standard but here goes :

BEFORE :

AFTER :

ChainsawAsh said:

11.Redub the Rebel pilot line: "Copy, Gold Leader". Why?

Because he looks and sounds like he was just shoved into the cockpit and ordered to read the line under pain of not getting a mug of tea.

WheresBlackhawk said:

mrbenja0618, if you read my synopsis a few pages back, Beru does play a part, not MAJOR, but I would still say she is important.

Bingowings - Yes, I've been thinking about moving up the introduction of not-padme.  I'm not sure we need more royalty, but I was kind of fond of her being Bail's woman.  Way back someone mentioned that Bail wasn't on Alderaan when his father is killed, because he has no intrest in being king.  How about this as part of my synopsis?

Obiwan and Anakin track down Bail's entourage.  A woman cuts them off from entering the room and questions why they need to see Bail.  Anakin tries to be smooth and ease his way past her.  She clocks him and he hits the ground HARD.  She repeats, " I asked...nicely...What's your business here?"   Obiwan explains that it has to do with Bail's father and then helps Anakin to his feet, "Didn't see that one coming?"  Anakin replies, "You show me any man who can read a woman." Obiwan smile, "Come on." As they are led into the room, Anakin rubs his pain and whispers to Obiwan, "I think I'm in love."

When they speak to Bail, Obiwan tells him calmly about the invasion of Alderaan.  Bail is shocked and doesn't know what to do.  Obiwan says that he should come with them to Coruscant. His droid, c3p0, tells him that it is his responsibility as the new king to survive and should NOT put himself into harm's way.  Anakin makes an impassioned speech about how it is his responsibility to help his people.  They should be placed before even his own life.  Bail doesn't seem to be interested in putting ANYTHING before HIS life.  When the woman from the entrance sides with Obiwan and Anakin and Bail notice a glance shared between her and Anakin, hehanges his tune and decides to go with them (only to impress her).

This way we can have an interesting arc for Bail.  He can start as a reluctant leader who doesn't really care for his people (not a jerk, just someone who would rather be free of ANY responsibility) and grow into that man who would kneel before the emperor for the good of his people and still be part of the rebellion behind the emperor's back for the good of ALL.

Sophia wasn't of high enough rank and to marry the Archduke which caused a scandal which resulted in the security being taken off their visit to Sarajevo and allowed their assassination to happen (starting World War I) so I'm ok with her being not a very high aristocrat but I'd prefer her to be high enough for Bail to know her well enough to be interested.

++NEW THOUGHTS ALONG THESE LINES++

What if Notpadme survives all the way passed the creation of the Empire only to be assassinated in a reverse JFK scene when Leia is about 3yrs old.

Palpatine could hire some "famous bounty hunter" to knock her off (pushing Anakin further off the edge) and make it look like a botched attempt to take out Viceroy Antilles on his coronation day and blame it on the Rebels (it would give bucket head something to do more in his idiom than being a cell donor or playing bodyguard to a giant slug).

That would add some irony to Vader hiring him in Episode V.

+++END OF LINE+++

Padme in the original trilogy is a part time Queen in a very odd form of monarchy. It lends a sense of credibilty to a fantasy if it's based on structures grounded in reality, who's heard of a monarchy of elected little girls?

Princes do marry showgirls but it's very rare.

Il ove your idea of Bail being a reluctant Viceroy it adds depth to his character.

TheBoost said:

darthmunky said:

Yeah, I think the whole dancing number should be taken out.

Also, why do people dislike the ring in planet/DS explosions?

 

 I don't dislike it for what it is, but it seemed that Star Wars, which was ringless (which is just fine by me) decided to copy Stargate and whoever. Star Wars needs to copy NO ONE!

The ring is arbitrary. No reason an exploding planet needs a ring, except that they were biting off Stargate.

I think it would be much more interesting to see the second Death Star burning before it blows and for it to have a spherical shock wave but as I suggested in my mega post, rather than destroying the Death Star deflection shield I'd have it switched to protect the moon thus avoiding the Endor holocaust scenario.

Seeing lumps of debris bouncing off a planetary shield would look interesting and unique and it would make better story sense.

Something that size blowing up so close to Endor would be a disaster even in a fantasy film, the original Death Star was far away from Yavin IV and Yavin would have scooped up the worst of the debris but Mk2 is in a low orbit around the moon and it's supposed to be bigger.

ben_danger said:

I like to think back the original titles

STAR WARS

the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

RETURN of the JEDI

but the new ones are all a bit, well, either:

PHANTOM MENACE   - too criptic for what should be a punchy first off title (still stand by 'the star wars as a title if we are to pretend its the first film.:P, but understand if thats unpopular!)

ATTACK of the CLONES   -I thought was fine, except its not really that true for the film. the clones attack the badguys, and they dont even appear until the end! SHROUD of the DARKSIDE was so much better! As the film is much more of a romantic thriller, something mysterious is better. perhaps even 'the phantom menace!'

REVENGE of the SITH   -I was SO disappointed by this title, its just a rehash of REVENGE OF THE JEDI title that preceded RETURN OF THE JEDI.

 

Personally if i was to think of another name, something without 'of the' in the middle would be awesome.

 

The Clone War would be great title, but the war doesnt really happen until the end. It would have been better if AOTC was episode I, then a CLONE WAR film was episode II that could allow episode III to not be so rushed...oh well...;P

 

A New Hope sounds fine as an episode IV title (the film doesn't have Star Wars in it just on battle and a few skirmishes).

The Empire Strikes Back makes sense, I'd have called Episode VI The Return Of The Jedi personally as it underlines both the return of the order and the return of a particular Jedi (but it's a minor quibble).

The Phantom Menace, sort of works but sort of doesn't, the major turning point here is the return of the Sith (which make a good bookend title in itself) and the invasion of Naboo (which almost works too) I quite like Attack From The Shadows as the Sith are acting in the shadows and are making a first move rather than out and out war.

Attack Of The Clones really doesn't work, the main plot point is Seperatist movement so I'd go for something like On Worlds Divided. That covers the Seperatists and sounds a bit like "By The Sword Divided" a civil war drama, it also covers the divided son and mother, the seperate worlds of Anakin and Padme, politics and the Jedi faith.

Revenge Of The Sith works rather well but the main drama is the fall of the republic, the fall of Anakin, the fall of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire. Rise Of The Sith bookends Episode VI much better than the Revenge because we never really found out why the Sith wanted revenge in the first place but we know why they want to rise to power and if they rise all others must fall (and like Jedi it refers to the order and a specific member of that order).

vaderios said:

The only proof of how the shields look is here, and in a brief moment in TPM:

I dont like this. Its too specific and the energy like thing is too common. I love/d the invisible something that surrounding the ships and the only indication of it are the shots that explodes before they hit.

darthmunky said:

What about the Gungan bubble shields in TPM

 

Right But I was refering to the Ships deflector shilelds. You have a point :) Imagine a nightmare of that shield placed in Hoth battle :S

 

 

 

-Angel

 

I've copied this over from the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread.

It would be nice to have the Gungan shield become invisible after activation and only be visable when something smacks into it.

This would tie in more with the OT.

gypsysun said:

Regarding Jabba's palace... I feel like Ady will have to cut Sy Snootles out entirely. Of course the SE version looks like some bullshit from Shrek, but the original puppet was beyond awful as well; I can't see it allowing for convincing 'cantina-ization'.

But we call all agree that Lapti Nek, is superior to, or at least less distracting than the abomination that is 'Jedi Rocks'.

Perhaps it's possible to make a combination of both Sy's and both tunes and make the band and the song both suitably debauched and convincingly alien.

TheBoost said:

vaderios said:

The inner stalagmites are placed to make a point. It gives an other depth of field.Like you said Ady has the last word here.

-Angel

 

 Silly quibble, but since stalagmites and tites are formed by water dripping, an asterioid with no liquid water or gravity wouldn't have any.

I always liked the space slug. I don't think it needs any tweaking.

"There's an awful lot of moisture in here."

Besides as I said earlier Star Wars isn't science fiction, it's space fantasy so the creatures don't have to make scientific sense but have to make narrative sense.

The mouth doesn't have to function as a real mouth but it should resemble both a mouth and a cave entrance (Han is an experienced pilot he wouldn't have flown into the thing if he thought it looked like a space alien on the way in, Leia isn't an experienced pilot but she isn't an idiot and she still thinks it's a cave on the way out).

When you think cave you think stalagmites (well at least most people do, if you don't believe me google "cave" and see what images you'll get) so why not have the teeth look more like stalagmites?

But it's Adywan's call.

OzoneSherrif said:

no. terrible ideas

It is just a quickly thrown together mock-up, I think the idea makes sense and could be done well but as always it's up to Adywan if he wants to do it or not.

lordjedi said:

DF Shadow said:

 

 

^^ Yes, yes yes.................iMo this would be awesome.

 

Imagine how sinister that crooked mug would look closing from the inside PoV............great idea.

Ack!  Why is this being changed?  Or is it just being talked about?  I haven't been keeping up, so if someone can point me to the page where it was discussed, I'll read about it there first.

IMO, this doesn't need to be changed at all.  Actually, IMO, most of the changes that have been discussed don't need to be done.

 

Just scroll back a few pages lazybones ;-)

TMBTM said:

Restore Yub Nub. Axia Euxines opinion : NO, SE music is SOOO much better

Agree. That music is one of the few good things from the SE.

 

Attempt to morph Shaw and Christensen into the Anakin Force Ghost. Axia Euxines opinion : have Christensen show up first then fade into Shaw

Nice idea to think about but I don't see it working in the end, either way.

The celebration theme is better in the SE but it's still a bit twee (at least the pan pipes will prevent a giant guinea pig invasion from spoiling the festivities).

As I said in my mega post many pages back, there must be a piece of music that fits this scene even better (a mix of the force theme and the celebration march from ANH sounds ideal).

I really want to keep creepy Anakin off the page put Seb Shaw back where he belongs.

JasonN said:

Bingowings said:

The idea of redubbing the Trade Federation is great from Magnoliafan (though I don't like the garbled speach used in that edit the subtitles making them darker slave traders is genius). Keeping Jar-Jar a funny clot but actually funny (from Slumberland), Anakin is better in The Phantom Edit (here I reach the outer edge of my Phantom Menace edit knowledge). ADM made a great job of putting deleted material back in.

Giving the battledroids sinister voices is something that has yet to be pulled off convincingly in my experience (though trimming has been done well in a couple of the versions I've seen).

Hopefully when Adywan comes to do his he will borrow from the best and add his own polish as Octorox suggests.

Maybe I'll take a look into doing such a project after I finish my "Starkiller Saga" edits of Ep2 & Ep3 (though I might be dead tired of SW by that time).

As for the droids, I actually liked the idea of removing their voices like Phantom Editor did in his edits.

The battledroids don't need to speak to each other (though it would be nice to have them make some sort of coded noise like the probots) but when they speak to other creatures they should sound menacing.

I'd go for the silent angle if they looked menacing (like the Cylons in NuGalactica) but they look skeletal so it would be nice if they had hissing clicky voices (turning them into ghostly wraiths) rather than sounding like Looney Toons characters.

The Superbattledroids in AOTC and ROTS are more substantial and don't need to talk at all but I think they should make more of a stomping noise when they march.

TMBTM said:

 I think you need her in it as much as possible to make the love stort convincing. They need to have important scenes together..

I think the classic hate/love story (ala Han/Leia) could also work between Anakin and his futur wife in NPT EP1... but if you ask me, I don't even think they have to be married at some point at all.

But I think the "impossible love story" that Lucas tried to sell us could work if done the write way.

You know: first they hate each other and the moment they finaly get close some event separates them. But whereas in the OT the love story turns well in the end (with Leia rescuing Han), In the NPT the love story turns bad. Anakin arrives too late to save his love (maybe because of Obi-Wan's order to follow another mission or something like that). Just an idea.

It's not very original, but with love story the big deal is making the dialogue believable or at least not too embarassing; and the situation must be desperate.

The forbidden love story I would have done would have been along the lines that Leia/Luke's mum is set to enter an arranged marriage with Bail when they meet (Royal houses still go in for that sort of thing so why not now, something similar helped kick off World War One http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie,_Duchess_of_Hohenberg and made us Brits swap monarchs before World War Two http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchess_of_Windsor).

Anakin and her falling in love would be the ideal complication rather than the Thorn Birds style angle they used in the official prequels.

If Bail went through with the marriage even though she was already pregnant would help him palm Leia off officially his daughter as opposed to an adopted one.

She could die after the establishment of the Empire and remarry so Leia get's a stepmother which Luke can later specifically rule out in his conversation about Leia's real mother.

JasonN said:

 

Bingowings said:

If you watch Slumberland's take on the Gungan scenes in TPM, Jar-Jar is still Jar-Jar, Boss Nass is still Boss Nass (no re-dubs or subtitles) but they work as designed much better (I wrote this elsewhere on here Jar-Jar actually made me laugh for the first time in a decade thanks to having the majority of his silly scenes removed, it improved the slap-schtick timing).

Hmm, I haven't seen Slumberland's edits yet, but you've peaked my curiousity (a better Jar-Jar would be great, but hopefully that also extends to a better Anakin as well)

Some of Anakin's scenes are improved but there is still room for further improvement.

I've yet to see an edit that pulls the best ideas together.

The idea of redubbing the Trade Federation is great from Magnoliafan (though I don't like the garbled speach used in that edit the subtitles making them darker slave traders is genius). Keeping Jar-Jar a funny clot but actually funny (from Slumberland), Anakin is better in The Phantom Edit (here I reach the outer edge of my Phantom Menace edit knowledge). ADM made a great job of putting deleted material back in.

Giving the battledroids sinister voices is something that has yet to be pulled off convincingly in my experience (though trimming has been done well in a couple of the versions I've seen).

Hopefully when Adywan comes to do his he will borrow from the best and add his own polish as Octorox suggests.

JasonN said:

colubra09 said:

The problem is, no matter how good the ideas, unless fan editors start to raid movie studios for all those deleted scenes there won't be enough material to reshape a story, and then it takes a pro like Adywan to make it into something to rival the official director's cut.

Even if there are numerous deleted scenes, that doesn't mean there will be enough footage to tell a better story or that those scenes are an improvement to the story - it all depends on the decisions of the filmmakers/studio and what they choose to film/edit/CG/etc in the first place. I also don't understand why you'd bring up an edit/s needing to be as good as an "official director's cut" since being a DC is no indication that the film will be better (hell, you could argue that Lucas's 2004 DVD release of SW was his "director's cut"...)

The reason we are here is because sometimes a director, editor or studio exec can be so on top of a project they can't see the forest for the trees (or the planks in the case of some actor performances).

The Phantom Editor showed that even without access to the cutting room floor it is possible to improve a scene by cutting even more (look at his take on Anakin's Force test scene) and some of the deleted material that is available does arguably work better than some of the material that wasn't deleted (a prime example being the Mace/Obi Wan conversation scene which was deleted from AOTC vs the Mace/Obi-Wan/floating Yoda scene that wasn't).

So even without Adywan's Adobe skills it is possible to work wonders with what is already to hand.

If you watch Slumberland's take on the Gungan scenes in TPM, Jar-Jar is still Jar-Jar, Boss Nass is still Boss Nass (no re-dubs or subtitles) but they work as designed much better (I wrote this elsewhere on here Jar-Jar actually made me laugh for the first time in a decade thanks to having the majority of his silly scenes removed, it improved the slap-schtick timing).

Josh said:

vaderios said:

professa said:

this is what i see when i look at the slug

i say dump it and go with the alien chestburster mouth if possible

 

Awesome!!! Easter egg In dvd9?

-Angel

 

 

 What, I don't see anything different per say ;]

Or perhaps...

I was turned onto the Slumberland edits via these forums and though they share some points of similarity with other edits they are certainly worth a watch in their own right.

One line that seems to carry a lot of importance in ESB but doesn't really feature elsewhere is Yoda's lesson of "Do or do not, there is no try".

It would be good if we saw the failures of Ben, Anakin, the Jedi, the Republic etc coming from them trying and failing and the successes of Palpatine, Vader, etc coming from them doing without trying.

Ben tries to teach Anakin, Anakin tries to be a Jedi, the Jedi try to defend a Republic trying to maintain justice and control in the galaxy but they lack faith in their abilities that is why they fail.

Once Palpatine is on top he becomes complacent (his overconfidence is his weakness) and Vader returns to a position of doubting if he could ever overthrow his master ( "You don't know the power of the darkside I must obey my Master") they both stop doing and start trying to overcome the Rebellion that is why they fail and the Alliance ultimately win.

Even Luke almost fails because he tries to turn his father back to the lightside instead of just doing it.

vaderios said:

Vader is like the Thief near Jesus Crucifixion. He made a lot in his past life but always at the end when the forgiveness is coming Mr V is finally redeemed and finally free from Palpatine's leash.

-Angel

 

There's the problem, he makes a sacrifice of sorts (he knows that Palpatine will not die without a fight so he will almost certainly not survive killing him saving Luke) but he knows also that he won't survive long anyway.

Luke just bested him in a duel and if Leia became a Jedi or a Sith she would either do the same or die trying (any way other than killing the Emperor, Palpatine would win).

So his motives are not clearly altruistic and his timing comes across as more out of desperation than out of a genuine realisation of the wrongs he needs to redeem.

If we saw him plotting against the Emperor earlier he would still have a conflict between his Sith urge to kill his master and his Jedi urge to destroy the Sith but he would be a little more active about it and not such a weed.

Vader is such a strong character in ESB but in ROTJ he comes across as inert.

bkev said:

I think it's time for me to put in an opinion on things being suggested here.  This is not a "LET'S DO IT BECAUSE WE CAN!" edit.  At least, SW:R didn't seem to be.  Right now, a lot of the suggestions given are leading down that road.  Not saying you shouldn't give ideas, but ESB is fine as it is.

-bkev, the watcher

 

I think the point of Ady's projects are that they are  "LET HIM DO WHAT HE THINKS IMPROVES THINGS!" edits.

All we are doing is making suggestions.

If ESB is as fine as you say it is what would be the point of doing it at all?

ESB is the best of the six films so far and ESB:R (or any other fan edit) will not remove the other versions from history (George's attempts to do that with his re-edits is what prompted the creation of this board in the first place) but there is room for improvement and with this project Adywan has the final say as to what he wants to and doesn't want to do with it.