Bingowings

ben_danger said:

I like to think back the original titles

STAR WARS

the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

RETURN of the JEDI

but the new ones are all a bit, well, either:

PHANTOM MENACE   - too criptic for what should be a punchy first off title (still stand by 'the star wars as a title if we are to pretend its the first film.:P, but understand if thats unpopular!)

ATTACK of the CLONES   -I thought was fine, except its not really that true for the film. the clones attack the badguys, and they dont even appear until the end! SHROUD of the DARKSIDE was so much better! As the film is much more of a romantic thriller, something mysterious is better. perhaps even 'the phantom menace!'

REVENGE of the SITH   -I was SO disappointed by this title, its just a rehash of REVENGE OF THE JEDI title that preceded RETURN OF THE JEDI.

 

Personally if i was to think of another name, something without 'of the' in the middle would be awesome.

 

The Clone War would be great title, but the war doesnt really happen until the end. It would have been better if AOTC was episode I, then a CLONE WAR film was episode II that could allow episode III to not be so rushed...oh well...;P

 

A New Hope sounds fine as an episode IV title (the film doesn't have Star Wars in it just on battle and a few skirmishes).

The Empire Strikes Back makes sense, I'd have called Episode VI The Return Of The Jedi personally as it underlines both the return of the order and the return of a particular Jedi (but it's a minor quibble).

The Phantom Menace, sort of works but sort of doesn't, the major turning point here is the return of the Sith (which make a good bookend title in itself) and the invasion of Naboo (which almost works too) I quite like Attack From The Shadows as the Sith are acting in the shadows and are making a first move rather than out and out war.

Attack Of The Clones really doesn't work, the main plot point is Seperatist movement so I'd go for something like On Worlds Divided. That covers the Seperatists and sounds a bit like "By The Sword Divided" a civil war drama, it also covers the divided son and mother, the seperate worlds of Anakin and Padme, politics and the Jedi faith.

Revenge Of The Sith works rather well but the main drama is the fall of the republic, the fall of Anakin, the fall of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire. Rise Of The Sith bookends Episode VI much better than the Revenge because we never really found out why the Sith wanted revenge in the first place but we know why they want to rise to power and if they rise all others must fall (and like Jedi it refers to the order and a specific member of that order).

vaderios said:

The only proof of how the shields look is here, and in a brief moment in TPM:

I dont like this. Its too specific and the energy like thing is too common. I love/d the invisible something that surrounding the ships and the only indication of it are the shots that explodes before they hit.

darthmunky said:

What about the Gungan bubble shields in TPM

 

Right But I was refering to the Ships deflector shilelds. You have a point :) Imagine a nightmare of that shield placed in Hoth battle :S

 

 

 

-Angel

 

I've copied this over from the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread.

It would be nice to have the Gungan shield become invisible after activation and only be visable when something smacks into it.

This would tie in more with the OT.

gypsysun said:

Regarding Jabba's palace... I feel like Ady will have to cut Sy Snootles out entirely. Of course the SE version looks like some bullshit from Shrek, but the original puppet was beyond awful as well; I can't see it allowing for convincing 'cantina-ization'.

But we call all agree that Lapti Nek, is superior to, or at least less distracting than the abomination that is 'Jedi Rocks'.

Perhaps it's possible to make a combination of both Sy's and both tunes and make the band and the song both suitably debauched and convincingly alien.

TheBoost said:

vaderios said:

The inner stalagmites are placed to make a point. It gives an other depth of field.Like you said Ady has the last word here.

-Angel

 

 Silly quibble, but since stalagmites and tites are formed by water dripping, an asterioid with no liquid water or gravity wouldn't have any.

I always liked the space slug. I don't think it needs any tweaking.

"There's an awful lot of moisture in here."

Besides as I said earlier Star Wars isn't science fiction, it's space fantasy so the creatures don't have to make scientific sense but have to make narrative sense.

The mouth doesn't have to function as a real mouth but it should resemble both a mouth and a cave entrance (Han is an experienced pilot he wouldn't have flown into the thing if he thought it looked like a space alien on the way in, Leia isn't an experienced pilot but she isn't an idiot and she still thinks it's a cave on the way out).

When you think cave you think stalagmites (well at least most people do, if you don't believe me google "cave" and see what images you'll get) so why not have the teeth look more like stalagmites?

But it's Adywan's call.

OzoneSherrif said:

no. terrible ideas

It is just a quickly thrown together mock-up, I think the idea makes sense and could be done well but as always it's up to Adywan if he wants to do it or not.

lordjedi said:

DF Shadow said:

 

 

^^ Yes, yes yes.................iMo this would be awesome.

 

Imagine how sinister that crooked mug would look closing from the inside PoV............great idea.

Ack!  Why is this being changed?  Or is it just being talked about?  I haven't been keeping up, so if someone can point me to the page where it was discussed, I'll read about it there first.

IMO, this doesn't need to be changed at all.  Actually, IMO, most of the changes that have been discussed don't need to be done.

 

Just scroll back a few pages lazybones ;-)

TMBTM said:

Restore Yub Nub. Axia Euxines opinion : NO, SE music is SOOO much better

Agree. That music is one of the few good things from the SE.

 

Attempt to morph Shaw and Christensen into the Anakin Force Ghost. Axia Euxines opinion : have Christensen show up first then fade into Shaw

Nice idea to think about but I don't see it working in the end, either way.

The celebration theme is better in the SE but it's still a bit twee (at least the pan pipes will prevent a giant guinea pig invasion from spoiling the festivities).

As I said in my mega post many pages back, there must be a piece of music that fits this scene even better (a mix of the force theme and the celebration march from ANH sounds ideal).

I really want to keep creepy Anakin off the page put Seb Shaw back where he belongs.

JasonN said:

Bingowings said:

The idea of redubbing the Trade Federation is great from Magnoliafan (though I don't like the garbled speach used in that edit the subtitles making them darker slave traders is genius). Keeping Jar-Jar a funny clot but actually funny (from Slumberland), Anakin is better in The Phantom Edit (here I reach the outer edge of my Phantom Menace edit knowledge). ADM made a great job of putting deleted material back in.

Giving the battledroids sinister voices is something that has yet to be pulled off convincingly in my experience (though trimming has been done well in a couple of the versions I've seen).

Hopefully when Adywan comes to do his he will borrow from the best and add his own polish as Octorox suggests.

Maybe I'll take a look into doing such a project after I finish my "Starkiller Saga" edits of Ep2 & Ep3 (though I might be dead tired of SW by that time).

As for the droids, I actually liked the idea of removing their voices like Phantom Editor did in his edits.

The battledroids don't need to speak to each other (though it would be nice to have them make some sort of coded noise like the probots) but when they speak to other creatures they should sound menacing.

I'd go for the silent angle if they looked menacing (like the Cylons in NuGalactica) but they look skeletal so it would be nice if they had hissing clicky voices (turning them into ghostly wraiths) rather than sounding like Looney Toons characters.

The Superbattledroids in AOTC and ROTS are more substantial and don't need to talk at all but I think they should make more of a stomping noise when they march.

TMBTM said:

 I think you need her in it as much as possible to make the love stort convincing. They need to have important scenes together..

I think the classic hate/love story (ala Han/Leia) could also work between Anakin and his futur wife in NPT EP1... but if you ask me, I don't even think they have to be married at some point at all.

But I think the "impossible love story" that Lucas tried to sell us could work if done the write way.

You know: first they hate each other and the moment they finaly get close some event separates them. But whereas in the OT the love story turns well in the end (with Leia rescuing Han), In the NPT the love story turns bad. Anakin arrives too late to save his love (maybe because of Obi-Wan's order to follow another mission or something like that). Just an idea.

It's not very original, but with love story the big deal is making the dialogue believable or at least not too embarassing; and the situation must be desperate.

The forbidden love story I would have done would have been along the lines that Leia/Luke's mum is set to enter an arranged marriage with Bail when they meet (Royal houses still go in for that sort of thing so why not now, something similar helped kick off World War One http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie,_Duchess_of_Hohenberg and made us Brits swap monarchs before World War Two http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchess_of_Windsor).

Anakin and her falling in love would be the ideal complication rather than the Thorn Birds style angle they used in the official prequels.

If Bail went through with the marriage even though she was already pregnant would help him palm Leia off officially his daughter as opposed to an adopted one.

She could die after the establishment of the Empire and remarry so Leia get's a stepmother which Luke can later specifically rule out in his conversation about Leia's real mother.

JasonN said:

 

Bingowings said:

If you watch Slumberland's take on the Gungan scenes in TPM, Jar-Jar is still Jar-Jar, Boss Nass is still Boss Nass (no re-dubs or subtitles) but they work as designed much better (I wrote this elsewhere on here Jar-Jar actually made me laugh for the first time in a decade thanks to having the majority of his silly scenes removed, it improved the slap-schtick timing).

Hmm, I haven't seen Slumberland's edits yet, but you've peaked my curiousity (a better Jar-Jar would be great, but hopefully that also extends to a better Anakin as well)

Some of Anakin's scenes are improved but there is still room for further improvement.

I've yet to see an edit that pulls the best ideas together.

The idea of redubbing the Trade Federation is great from Magnoliafan (though I don't like the garbled speach used in that edit the subtitles making them darker slave traders is genius). Keeping Jar-Jar a funny clot but actually funny (from Slumberland), Anakin is better in The Phantom Edit (here I reach the outer edge of my Phantom Menace edit knowledge). ADM made a great job of putting deleted material back in.

Giving the battledroids sinister voices is something that has yet to be pulled off convincingly in my experience (though trimming has been done well in a couple of the versions I've seen).

Hopefully when Adywan comes to do his he will borrow from the best and add his own polish as Octorox suggests.

JasonN said:

colubra09 said:

The problem is, no matter how good the ideas, unless fan editors start to raid movie studios for all those deleted scenes there won't be enough material to reshape a story, and then it takes a pro like Adywan to make it into something to rival the official director's cut.

Even if there are numerous deleted scenes, that doesn't mean there will be enough footage to tell a better story or that those scenes are an improvement to the story - it all depends on the decisions of the filmmakers/studio and what they choose to film/edit/CG/etc in the first place. I also don't understand why you'd bring up an edit/s needing to be as good as an "official director's cut" since being a DC is no indication that the film will be better (hell, you could argue that Lucas's 2004 DVD release of SW was his "director's cut"...)

The reason we are here is because sometimes a director, editor or studio exec can be so on top of a project they can't see the forest for the trees (or the planks in the case of some actor performances).

The Phantom Editor showed that even without access to the cutting room floor it is possible to improve a scene by cutting even more (look at his take on Anakin's Force test scene) and some of the deleted material that is available does arguably work better than some of the material that wasn't deleted (a prime example being the Mace/Obi Wan conversation scene which was deleted from AOTC vs the Mace/Obi-Wan/floating Yoda scene that wasn't).

So even without Adywan's Adobe skills it is possible to work wonders with what is already to hand.

If you watch Slumberland's take on the Gungan scenes in TPM, Jar-Jar is still Jar-Jar, Boss Nass is still Boss Nass (no re-dubs or subtitles) but they work as designed much better (I wrote this elsewhere on here Jar-Jar actually made me laugh for the first time in a decade thanks to having the majority of his silly scenes removed, it improved the slap-schtick timing).

Josh said:

vaderios said:

professa said:

this is what i see when i look at the slug

i say dump it and go with the alien chestburster mouth if possible

 

Awesome!!! Easter egg In dvd9?

-Angel

 

 

 What, I don't see anything different per say ;]

Or perhaps...

I was turned onto the Slumberland edits via these forums and though they share some points of similarity with other edits they are certainly worth a watch in their own right.

One line that seems to carry a lot of importance in ESB but doesn't really feature elsewhere is Yoda's lesson of "Do or do not, there is no try".

It would be good if we saw the failures of Ben, Anakin, the Jedi, the Republic etc coming from them trying and failing and the successes of Palpatine, Vader, etc coming from them doing without trying.

Ben tries to teach Anakin, Anakin tries to be a Jedi, the Jedi try to defend a Republic trying to maintain justice and control in the galaxy but they lack faith in their abilities that is why they fail.

Once Palpatine is on top he becomes complacent (his overconfidence is his weakness) and Vader returns to a position of doubting if he could ever overthrow his master ( "You don't know the power of the darkside I must obey my Master") they both stop doing and start trying to overcome the Rebellion that is why they fail and the Alliance ultimately win.

Even Luke almost fails because he tries to turn his father back to the lightside instead of just doing it.

vaderios said:

Vader is like the Thief near Jesus Crucifixion. He made a lot in his past life but always at the end when the forgiveness is coming Mr V is finally redeemed and finally free from Palpatine's leash.

-Angel

 

There's the problem, he makes a sacrifice of sorts (he knows that Palpatine will not die without a fight so he will almost certainly not survive killing him saving Luke) but he knows also that he won't survive long anyway.

Luke just bested him in a duel and if Leia became a Jedi or a Sith she would either do the same or die trying (any way other than killing the Emperor, Palpatine would win).

So his motives are not clearly altruistic and his timing comes across as more out of desperation than out of a genuine realisation of the wrongs he needs to redeem.

If we saw him plotting against the Emperor earlier he would still have a conflict between his Sith urge to kill his master and his Jedi urge to destroy the Sith but he would be a little more active about it and not such a weed.

Vader is such a strong character in ESB but in ROTJ he comes across as inert.

bkev said:

I think it's time for me to put in an opinion on things being suggested here.  This is not a "LET'S DO IT BECAUSE WE CAN!" edit.  At least, SW:R didn't seem to be.  Right now, a lot of the suggestions given are leading down that road.  Not saying you shouldn't give ideas, but ESB is fine as it is.

-bkev, the watcher

 

I think the point of Ady's projects are that they are  "LET HIM DO WHAT HE THINKS IMPROVES THINGS!" edits.

All we are doing is making suggestions.

If ESB is as fine as you say it is what would be the point of doing it at all?

ESB is the best of the six films so far and ESB:R (or any other fan edit) will not remove the other versions from history (George's attempts to do that with his re-edits is what prompted the creation of this board in the first place) but there is room for improvement and with this project Adywan has the final say as to what he wants to and doesn't want to do with it.

This would be a radical change but considering all the hideous things that Anakin/Vader has done (killing innocent children, aiding the destruction of whole worlds, trying to kill his wife, killing his best friend etc, etc) was throwing Palpatine down a pit enough ro redeem him?

It would be interesting if throughout Jedi we saw Vader actually helping the Rebels in someway but trying to keep it secret from Palpatine.

Palpatine knows this and this gives the Emperor added motive for replacing Vader with Luke.

If Vader gave the plans to the Rebels, and was actually sabotaging the Death Star construction (while pushing for it’s completion).

There is some of this thinking in the Force Unleashed storyline with Vader helping set up the Alliance to act as flypaper for dissenters.

Part of this could be that reasoned that as a Sith apprentice his time is largely up, he knows what Palpatine did to Dooku, he knows that given the chance Palpatine would replace Vader with a younger stronger apprentice if he can’t get there first.

Letting the Rebels know where the Emperor is going to be (he could even suggest this to him) and giving them the chance to kill him would help him get into a position where he would be the Master and Luke could be convinced that he wasn’t all that bad and being a Sith Lord could have real benefits for restoring the Republic.

But deep down the Anakin in Vader wants to do the right thing and killing Palpatine is the final act of a redemption that has been built up in hidden acts of his own inner rebellion.

In Jedi as it stands we see Vader ponder and procrastinate Luke’s appeals to his father’s light side, which weakens the way we see him.

Vader is a man of action if he was seriously thinking that the moment was coming to make a move against the Emperor it would strengthen his role if we saw him being a bit more proactive about it. That way his silence would be seen as him keeping quiet about the plans he has already in place instead of just moping.

Darth Maul doing Darth Vader you have to smile out loud.

Kurgan said:

The space slug looks fine. Why change it? It's a fantastic creature that makes absolutely no sense in real life, so if we were going for strict realism there would be no creature, period. Delete the whole scene and just say they flew out of a normal asteroid.

The only part that needs fixing are the bad matte lines on the teeth in those last shots (and maybe that strange blue effect that everyone mentioned that's now been removed). Everybody knows it's a monster mouth except Leia, so what?

If you really want to improve the scene, turn it into one of the sand worms from Dune, and insert the line where Dr. Kynes is talking about blessing the Maker and his water. ;)

This reminds me of a discussion that bounced around some months back (the nature of which is not for this place).

Star Wars isn't science fiction, it's space fantasy, it's Sinbad with space ships.

While a creature like the space slug might exist out there somewhere it wouldn't look like that and would possibly feed off chemical deposits found in the asteroid field and resemble a marine filter feeder, the teeth make no scientific sense at all but that's ok because it doesn't have to be a scientifically viable creature, it's fantasy.

But for a fantasy story to work it has to make sense within the fantasy realm that the story is set in.

Han flies through the open mouth and initially believes it to be a cave entrance, Leia is still convinced it's a cave when the mouth is shutting and it makes sense to make the creature look more of a realistic (in a fantastic sense) threat.

So changing the mouth to look more like the sort of thing that could be mistaken for a cave and making the creature look more convincingly scary makes sense.

But it is up to Adywan if he wants to do that in his edit.

RoccondilRinon said:

rcb said:i came across somehting thats been bugging me for awhile. after luke lands on daghobah, and sets up camp. he says, "There's something familiar about this place." wat the heck does he mean? did he see it in a vision or did obi-wan take him there for a visit when he was a youngleen? i never figured that out. so can we lose that line?

 

I believe in a (very) early draft of the prequels, the Skywalker twins were supposed to be born on Dagobah. I don't have a particular problem with the line, though.

This is brought over from the ESB:R thread.

The moment I read this it made a lot of sense to me.

Rather than being dropped off in an escape pod Yoda is taken to Dagobah in the Tantive IV.

It lands on Dagobah and Padme has the twins there.

That way Yoda gets to his final destination, Luke's line gets an explanation and most of the birth scene can be kept as the hospital set matches much of the look of the Tantive.

The Golden Idol said:

AxiaEuxine said:

vaderios said:

Terror damn it :P no more Movies for children

-Angel

 

 That idea is awesome, should definitely do that

 

 Jeez, WTF is that?!

Howz about these gnashers?

I think it's important that nobody feels that their ideas have been shot down or killed off.

Ulitimately if this thread is to deliver anything in the form of an animated alternative to the official prequels someone is going to have to start doing the hard work of animating it and that person will call the shots when it comes to story elements.

It's possible that this thread might create more than one set of stories too.

If anyone feels that their vision of where this idea may go is lost in discussion take away what you do like and write it up.

Keep looking at this thread for other ideas which ring your bell and when you are satisfied start recruiting technical staff.

Ideas like these are like getting free toys and everyday someone posts is Christmas day.

When it comes to making something, then it will be hard work but viewing the final results (be they one project or half a dozen) will be like every Christmas coming at once.

So don't lose heart or kick down anyone elses input.

Have fun and keep the ideas flowing even if they don't match up yet.

My only advice would be to watch as many other edits as possible and make an edit that takes from the best of what has already been done, also check out the various threads about prequel edits and see if any of the ideas click with you and try them out.

GoldStone9 said:

LOL, really? Still, looks rather odd. Nevermind then....

He certainly sounds odd to British ears, did the casting crew drag him out of a pub in Dagenham?

Further the earlier discussion about the Sith Pirates, it could just be a matter of perspective too.

There is a group that is engaged in combat with ships and to some they are seen as pirates to others they may be seen as a legitimate military force (just as some groups are labelled terrorists or freedom fighters in the news today depending on which part of the world you watch it from). The Jedi may be viewed in the same manner.

As for Anakin's fall it could be more like Kagemusa, Anakin kills the previous Darth Vader and adopts the role with good intentions (using them as a force of good) but the power goes to his head, the role possesses him until he becomes the person he killed.

This could be hinted at by having Anakin discuss the possibilty of using them as a positive force before he vanishes and is presumed dead.

 Another character which could give an interesting alternate origin of Anakin could be Kasper Hauser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspar_Hauser

A boy with no past who has been locked away for all his life and is sent to Obi-Wan to be trained as a Jedi because a note claims his father was a Jedi.

As he is trained his memories begin to return and they could form the basis of his eventual fall.

ben_danger said:

german battledroids! Bingowings is a genius!

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wQfkJTn_EQs

Reports of my genius are greatly exaggerated.

In the actual German dub they sound just as daft as in the English language version (though Sidious is great and the Trade Federation sound a lot better).

I was thinking more along the lines of the German version in this level of Rebel Strike (if someone could sample it I would love to hear these in an edit).

Fast forward to around the 1:37 mark :

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zjwPsm8bLBo