Bingowings

Bobocop said:

 

When I was a kid, TBS's showing of the Trilogy during thanksgiving or christmas (or both, I forget which) was always one of the highlights of my holiday season.

 

By the way, Bingowings, those reflection shots above look MUCH better. I never noticed the transparency before, but something always seemed off. I guess I just never looked frame by frame.

 

Indeed it does but as much as I would like to take credit for the hardwork of others that was asterisk8 who did those there shots, I was merely commenting on them.

I did shoot the sheriff though and the deputy too.

asterisk8 said:

Enough of the grammar school. :p

 

I was looking at the 2004 CG Cloud City balcony shot. I think it really looks terrible.

a. The balcony is too low. It comes up to about thigh-height. That is just not safe.

b. The reflection is way too clear. Especially of the balcony walls and the sky. The left side of the floor has an almost mirror finish.

c. The biggest errors are the gang's reflections. In the reflection, the three are translucent. You can see the balcony behind them! Take a look:

That's not how reflections work, and it's one of the best examples of the lazy CG work done for these special editions. A professional CG artist should know that you can't see through a person's reflection.

The truth is, I'd rather see the wall put back in place (maybe a window) in adywan's edit, but if he wants to keep this shot, it needs some work.

So here's my quick-n-dirty mock-up of how I think the shot would look better. It's not the best Photshopping, but it gets the point across. Open both up in two tabs and flip back and forth to get the full effect.

 

Quick-n-dirty it may be but already the gang seem to be on the ground and not floating in mid air.

I did a similar quick fix to the DVD ANH Jabba which it seems pointless to post here (though if you get you magnifying glass out you might pick out in my avatar pic).

It does illustrate the scale of the mess which from all accounts seems to stem from George's "It'll do" attitude.

Ady (and most of us on here) sings from a different song book, one which includes "It Don't Mean A Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing) and "T'ain't What You Do (It's the Way That You Do It)".

I really can't (though I must) wait to see his final results.

Darth Solo said:

I have some model shots (and the Kenner, herm, one), but just flicking through my pics, it seems the wings are all in the landed position (i think). Look proper 2 morrow after work to see if my archives hold any strength around here to contwibute sumfin.

Those German fellas had some excellent work already done on their, dare i mention "TYDERIUM" project. From a wide out shot of the shuttle, zooming into the cockpit shot. It was stunning. And they did X-wings and Y-wings for their trailer. Jambe was always cheeky enough to ask.

Here's the trailer for that, looked like they had a lot of fun making it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajU69palO7A&feature=related

Ripplin said:

Oh, I agree, DS. I have full confidence Ady will keep in all the things I love about Jedi, but...you know, tighten it up a bit. I would certainly love to see the belching and Tarzan yell get the chop, though. ;)

Anyway, back to the recently discussed [again] issue of Needa's shuttle, has anyone ever found some pictures of the model, or even a screenshot or two? I'd love to see it up close if possible! :)

I don't know how much this relates to the actual model but here's the wookiepedia article :

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/sh_shuttle

So basically it's a TIE Bomber with the bomb pod removed.

Janskeet said:

I thought it was just as good as the previous two, though I would rank it as the least in the trilogy.

You do realise how contradictory those two statements are?

I agree with Ady (and so what if he is a Star Wars nerd, that's why we are here, we are all Star Wars nerds).

Empire built on the initial premise of Star Wars, Jedi merely recycled the two episodes that preceded it.

It has some fine moments but compared to the first two episodes Jedi is the poor cousin.

The prequels are even more of a mess (they got better over time but even ROTS has moments that make one's teeth curl).

We are trying to help Ady because of the fine work he did first time but it's his baby, he (as I do) feels Boba's original voice worked better in Empire.

He's doing the hard work, he calls the shots.

ChainsawAsh said:

It's been covered.  Read the thread.

 

(hint: the answer is "No, he won't")

asajjven ignore ChainsawAsh who is clearly having a bad hair day, it's always nice to see a new face around.

Ash, asajjven clearly doesn't have English as his first language, it's hard enough trawling through 118ish pages of posts in your native tongue (I don't know how Ady does it).  I'm sure you don't mean to put off people who may add something somewhere which we all missed by being a rude get but please show a little appreciation and courtesy.

On a general note, I'm glad that Adywan isn't adding any prequel music to ESB.

The score is sublime as it is.

It's the prequels (and Jedi) that need to borrow from it.

We have a lovely little droids theme that as far as I can tell never turns up again and Han and Leia's theme barely get a mention in ROTJ even when it would make more sense to use it than Luke and Leia's theme.

It's the prequels which brake the rules of leitmotif (What the hell was the Battledroids theme doing during the Clone trooper reveal in AOTC ? I'd have extended the old Imperial theme from ANH and turned that into the stormtrooper theme and the Imperial March shouldn't appear until the end of ROTS and not at the end of AOTC).

Jedi on the other hand is a real mess and the score needs a real fix but John Williams really didn't put a foot wrong with Empire.

Sluggo said:

Bingowings:

I think you ought to take a crack at it. I (and I am sure others here as well) can assist with some freeware to get you started. Put together a few smaller projects (like trailers) for fun and to hone some skills. I've been teaching myself some tricks here and there in preperation for some projects of my own.

Seriously, if you want a project done right, don't farm it out to someone else unless you downright can't do it.

Just my 2 cents.

That's a very kind offer and as I said I am tempted.

I'm a mac user and the only editing software I've used are iMovie and HyperEngine (so you can see I'm very green).

But any help you can give in getting started would be greatly appreciated.

tjdavis1138 said:

Well Bingowings you sound like the perfect person to take over this project!

It's tempting, I don't have access to DVD ripping and advanced editing software but if I could get good versions of the source material I might be able to do rough and ready versions which might inspire more tooled up and talented types out there to perfect the idea.

I'm a real fan of Godfather II and Infodroid's original notion is genius.

It will be done by someone eventually but I don't think I'm the guy to give the universe the polished gem this deserves to be (but I might be able give the final artist some interesting pointers).

I might start by editing the scripts.

The key to good stories is in the writing and I can edit that on a simple word processor.

There were certainly somethings going right with this project.

I liked most of the mixing of Luke and Anakin's mutual family traumas. Though I would have kept with Anakin all the way from his finding the Tusken camp and that evil look after his mother's death. I would have then gone to the funeral scene at the farm with Beru and Owen young and alive which ends with a pan up at the sky. Then reversed the pan up at the end of Luke's scene to a pan down (not as easy as it sounds without the smoke going backwards) and then had his reaction to seeing their charred remains. And then on to Ben comforting him and Luke decaring his intent to follow in his father's bootsteps.

I would have kept the actual Tusken laser sword massacre scenes until his confession to Padme which would have followed next (as much as I love the mixing of Padme waiting to meet her deadly husband with the confession it is rather long...perhaps keeping the wanting to stop people from dying bit would be enough as it shows Padme falsly blaiming herself for Anakin's final fall.

The love scene montage is great but the clip of little Annie takes you out of the moment.

Though it's a mountain of hard work it might be worth making it so Boba Fett is the same guy in the mask in all the films (basically erasing Jengo from the timeline and really fleshing Boba's role out). If Jengo's armour could be recoloured to match the original films and we never saw him die in AOTC that would give us more Boba for our buck. It's a shame that we have so many clone faces on display because I would prefer to never find out what under that helmet.

Sluggo said:

It doesn't look like motion blur.

They aren't from exactly the same frame so it makes sense that some of the shot on one side has motion blur when some of the shot on the other does not.

It certainly looks like motion blur from where I'm sitting.

Fjodin said:

i very like adywan' reconstruction of films, but i am affraid its impossible to create 2 versions of E5 and E6 (with SE scenes and without them). Too bad :(

"Always with you it can not be done".

It's not impossible, you just have to wait for Adywan to work his magic and then isolate the scenes you would like back and return them. These are fan editions and edits after all (giving Adywan a deserved credit would be the gentlepersonly thing to do naturally). Everyone on here is essentially playing with other people's crayons (even George Lucas couldn't have got the films made without the work of others and he added to and took away from that with all his versions) so adjusting Adywan's final result to suit your own preferences is perfectly fine.

Impossible it is not, to get it to look and sound right, hard work it is.

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

Octorox said:

doubleofive said:

I couldn't resist posting the two changes I noticed. I won't directly put them on here till everyone has had a look, but I'll post the links for the curious:

Change 1

Change 2

change 2 looked really shopped in that video. I guess HD is a lot less forgiving! Of course, it's still in early development as well.

 

actually thats the best i'm going to get it at the moment. trying to find horns to match the wampa is hard enough but to get them in HD res then thats the killer.i ahven't got a clue whwre i'd find some horns to match or come even close. i had to use a mixture of wampa & taun taun to do those shots. then tracking those shots...man thats tough. if you think it looks crap then if i can't get it any better then i'll just have to drop it. This is the big hurdle i have to face now i'm working in HD. its a whole new ball game.

 

I've heard ideas given that the wampa that brought Luke to the cave is a different one that tried to stop him from escaping. Perhaps even different sexes, like the female would have small tusks from the side of the mouth while the males have horns that come from the top of its head, or vice versa. Honestly, I would just scrap it, though the tracking looked really good at the half speed I watched it at! I'd hate to lose all that work I'm sure you did, but it may be for the best.

The horns look fine to me but I was looking at it on my laptop.

It's a shame that a edit can't be done (presumably because of the soundtrack cues) so that the impact that Luke notices is actually the Probe droid landing (which he assumes is just another meteorite).

Probe enters the atmosphere Luke sees impact but gets attacked by Wampa, Probe rises out of crater, would be my prefered order but that's a lot of work for very little story flow.

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

I'm not sure if this particular piece of dialogue was ever recorded but in the Marvel comic adaptation of TESB Vader counters Luke's line of "You'll find I'm full of surprises" with "And I too".

I love this as it serves a duel purpose, firstly Vader counters Luke's moves with very little effort, so it serves as a warning to Luke, in Han's words to "Don't get cocky".

It also foreshadows the big revelation to come.

If it was never recorded perhaps it's possible to create the line by editing the line together from other sentences that Vader has said.

yeh, but you need to listen to that scene again. Listen to how Luke says the line. There is no possible way an extra line could be added. It just wouldn't sound right and there is no space for it.

Doubleofive & ImperialFighter, how are the pics coming along?

@satanika, that was funny. :)

There are possibly (and I bow to your expert judgement on these matters) two ways it could work.

First leave the footage as stands and insert the line as Vader lands from his long jump down the stairs (just before "Your destiny lies with me...")

Not only is Vader "full of surprises" he's just given Luke an active demonstration by knocking his weapon away in a casual manner and charging at him in a way we hadn't seen him do before (the sight of that dark heavy missile aiming himself at me would certainly give me pause for thought alone).

The other option I'm not too keen on as it involves cutting footage (and I've loved this film since I was 10 years old) but we have already seen Luke's sabre take a tumble somewhere so if you removed the shot of it landing on the floor (but we hear it land by sampling the sound and adding echo for distance) the focus remains on the two of them and the line can be placed earlier. After Luke has got back to his feet and his eyes scan the area the shot of the sabre on the floor could be reinstated (minus the actual landing).

But as always you are the boss.

I'm not sure if this particular piece of dialogue was ever recorded but in the Marvel comic adaptation of TESB Vader counters Luke's line of "You'll find I'm full of surprises" with "And I too".

I love this as it serves a duel purpose, firstly Vader counters Luke's moves with very little effort, so it serves as a warning to Luke, in Han's words to "Don't get cocky".

It also foreshadows the big revelation to come.

If it was never recorded perhaps it's possible to create the line by editing the line together from other sentences that Vader has said.

ben_danger said:

perhaps you could take donations to include token adverts for sponsorship?

 

"maybe you will like to join me for a little refreshment?"

Wouldn't that be Battlestar Galactica rather than Star Wars?

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

Further to my previous post, is there anything that can be done to matte paintings like the one I mentioned (other than time consuming CGI replacements)? I'm not sure if that one and the similar one in ROTJ look so bad because of the painting or whether is just the way it was composited with the live action footage (other paintings work beautifully throughout the saga). Viewing that particular scene again I'm not even sure if the scene is essential and perhaps the easiest clean up is just to remove it alltogether.

I'm also divided as to whether Empire would be better starting with the Star Destroyer slowly crawling overhead as in ANH and ROTJ (only not getting cut off as in Jedi) or leaving it as it is.

The Star Destroyer does look a bit lost and lonely in that opening shot.

Another possible option would roll down from the scroll to reveal the surface of Hoth and then see the Star Destroyer jump into the system (possibly with a few back up ships) in one shot rather than just have the poor dear hanging there.

I see no problem with the stardestroyer at the beginning. It is, after all, deploying several probe droids. I think that the Empire would scatter the Stardestroyers throughout the galaxy to give the widest search range for the probes, so it would be on its own.It also wouldn't make sense having the stardestroyer jump out of hyperspace above Hoth at the beginning because the rebels would have been alerted immediately to the imperials presence which would contradict most of the first part of the movie

I am going to be trying to do something with all the matte paintings in the movie. The main problem with the live action with the paintings is because using old bluescreen technology, the mate edges are very harsh and this makes any movement in front of the painting looks strange because any of the motion blur edges are gone.

 

 

 

Sorry, It's been a funny week for me so my fingers aren't always typing what my brain is thinking.

I really meant we see the Star Destroyer jump in (but not actually into the system, as you rightfully point out that would be a fast one way ticket to the Executor apology morgue for the Captain) and seeing Hoth would confuse the viewer into thinking that was exactly what happened (so please edit me into a universe where I didn't type that either).

In a nutshell what I really was suggesting was scroll, empty space, Star Destroyer jumps in and then play as is.

I shall now hide behind this stangely blue snow drift and hope no one notices me until the next time my fingers do my inner eye a disservice.

Josh said:

I Will start adding to the input train once Ady say's he's done the color work. Untill then, I will sit down with A cup of Blue Milk and read on!

If we over tax poor Adywan he might end up colour correcting the entire universe (you know, the real one?).

In which case your blue milk will turn white.

Further to my previous post, is there anything that can be done to matte paintings like the one I mentioned (other than time consuming CGI replacements)? I'm not sure if that one and the similar one in ROTJ look so bad because of the painting or whether is just the way it was composited with the live action footage (other paintings work beautifully throughout the saga). Viewing that particular scene again I'm not even sure if the scene is essential and perhaps the easiest clean up is just to remove it alltogether.

I'm also divided as to whether Empire would be better starting with the Star Destroyer slowly crawling overhead as in ANH and ROTJ (only not getting cut off as in Jedi) or leaving it as it is.

The Star Destroyer does look a bit lost and lonely in that opening shot.

Another possible option would roll down from the scroll to reveal the surface of Hoth and then see the Star Destroyer jump into the system (possibly with a few back up ships) in one shot rather than just have the poor dear hanging there.

A couple of other ESB things that have always bugged me are the still visible compositing flags (epecially the one which follows the Falcon as it enters the Asteroid cave) and more so the obvious matte painting of the Rebel Hanger that cuts in just after Vader's first scene.

We have this wonderful full sized set (often seen out of focus in the background which adds to realistic feel of the hanger shots) and then suddenly there is a painting which really looks like a painting and it's in uniform focus (the effect is in some ways even worse than the similar shot of the Falcon in ROTJ because of the beauty of the rest of the sequences in this film).

Is there some way that the painting element can be adjusted so it looks a little less in focus and is colour corrected for distance?

Sorry but somehow I managed to repeat my post but I guess if somethings worth saying, saying it twice can't hurt.

I loved the idea of this project but I think the problems you have lie in the restrictions you made for yourselves.

Look at The Godfather Parts  I and II.

The structure of Part II only works because of the straight linear narrative of Part I.

So really could leave Adywan's ANH as your part one (with perhaps a few alterations here and there).

Then heavily cut TPM and AOTC to parallel the Sith hunting Anakin and the fear of loss aspects to parallel Luke's story in ESB and the Anakin/Padme love story trimmed heavily to parallel Leia and Han's, Boba's and Jengo's stories would hint at the revelation to come (the son follows the father) and the disarming of Anakin and the unhanding of Luke would serve as the final clue.  There's your part two.

The prequel aspects of The Godfather Part II cover Vito from childhood to adulthood and we don't see Luke's childhood so it makes sense to show Anakin's life in the same way.

You already have stated that ROTS and ROTJ fit quite naturally.

So in short I'd leave ANH (though I'd put Boba back into Adywan's ANH to serve as pay off to your next part) and mix selected sections of TPM and AOTC into ESB (minus some of Luke's training) for part 2 and merge ROTS with ROTJ to form your part 3.

That way you don't have to squeeze AOTC in ANH but fit it where it fits best (with a bit of TPM) in with ESB.

I hope you are inspired to return to Reborn as it's an exciting idea and a great way of maintaining the surprises of the original saga while fleshing it out with the best of what the prequels have to offer (while removing the worst excesses).

Best of luck.

I loved the idea of this project but I think the problems you have lie in the restrictions you made for yourselves.

Look at The Godfather Parts  I and II.

The structure of Part II only works because of the straight linear narrative of Part I.

So really could leave Adywan's ANH as your part one (with perhaps a few alterations here and there).

Then heavily cut TPM and AOTC to parallel the Sith hunting Anakin and the fear of loss aspects to parallel Luke's story in ESB and the Anakin/Padme love story trimmed heavily to parallel Leia and Han's, Boba's and Jengo's stories would hint at the revelation to come (the son follows the father) and the disarming of Anakin and the unhanding of Luke would serve as the final clue.  There's your part two.

The prequel aspects of The Godfather Part II cover Vito from childhood to adulthood and we don't see Luke's childhood so it makes sense to show Anakin's life in the same way.

You already have stated that ROTS and ROTJ fit quite naturally.

So in short I'd leave ANH (though I'd put Boba back into Adywan's ANH to serve as pay off to your next part) and mix selected sections of TPM and AOTC into ESB (minus some of Luke's training) for part 2 and merge ROTS with ROTJ to form your part 3.

That way you don't have to squeeze AOTC in ANH but fit it where it fits best (with a bit of TPM) in with ESB.

I hope you are inspired to return to Reborn as it's an exciting idea and a great way of maintaining the surprises of the original saga while fleshing it out with the best of what the prequels have to offer (while removing the worst excesses).

Best of luck.

Darth Solo said:

I not about to turn this into a ding dong slanging match, and take the tread out of all context. That would be counter productive to the cause.

So there for im not about to rise to it.

I agree with the idea of not altering the OT to fit in with the prequels though.

 I personally see Jedi as just as much a blot on the Star Wars landscape as either of the first two prequels, so personally I have no problem bending it to fit in with ROTS which for all it's faults is closer to the first two films we saw than Episode VI ever was (besides it's easier to trim one line of dialogue than figure out some editing/effects solution to allow for Panda Bear to survive Episode III for long enough for Leia to remember her and I want to make things as easy as possible for the over worked chosen one).

But we are wandering off the Empire track again and Adywan is, rightfully in a "not as forgiving mood" with all the hard work he is throwing down at the moment.

Sluggo said:

Things I still wish were done are, putting Boba back in (I don't miss Jabba though, they could never get him to work, the tail stomping is silly and the scene is pointless after the Greedo scene) but it have been nice to have dropped the Boba shot into the streets of Mos Eisley as a mysterious figure who may be tracking Kenobi and Co or Han and Chewie only to have his background filled in later (or serve as a reminder of AOTC if seen from 1 to 6).

...

The only addition to Empire I can think of (that has yet to been mentioned as far as I can remember) would be to have the Star Destroyer bridge hit by the asteroid instead of vanishing in an explosive cloud to snap off and fly towards the screen sparking after being hit in the neck. It would explain why her Captain is still alive for a fraction of a second during the video conference with Vader (something I thought was great fun when I was young and still do).

...

I know it's very early days but for Jedi (and boy do you have your work cut out there) my instincts are a little different from yours as I'd keep Boba's womanising but I'd rejig the sabre action on the skiff so rather than have Solo accidentally sending him to his death, I'd have Luke cut his head off mirroring what happened to his father in AOTC. The main subtext of ROTJ is Luke trying to avoid following the same fate as his father, Boba followed his father's path so it makes symbolic sense if he suffered the same fate.

 

 These are interesting ideas.  The shot in Empire in particular seemed like a cop-out.  A major section of the ship is here one second and gone the next.  It definitely needs something.

 A few examples of something similar (sticking to the Empire shot as per the Master's request) are the Reliant's nacelle being shot off in Star Trek II, The Pegasus hanger bay breaking off and striking the Cylon Basestar in nuBSG and I suppose, keeping it in the Star Wars family (and specifically within the same 30 minutes of the same film) the TIE fighter losing it's solar panel and spinning out of control (another element I also loved when I first saw the film all those years ago).

adywan said:

What the hell????? Last time i looked this is the ESB:R thread. Maybe that should have gone in the Dark Knight thread as it has nothing to do with this project. There has been too many posts that don't relate to ESB (but at least the others have related to a star wars movie) & i have stated before that its getting impossible to keep track of all the suggestions for ESB:R without something like this getting posted.

Please no more about anything other than ESB. There will be threads started for the other SW saga movies that you can discuss ideas for them at the appropriate time. I'm pretty busy at the moment but i like to keep track when i see a new post only to have wasted my time reading stuff like this.

Anymore and mr. ignore button will start to get some use on those offending. lol

 

 

 On my part I did explain that I'm new to these boards and to this thread which has already verged off onto all things Star Wars Revisited. Most of what I'd like to see has been already suggested by others and your good self who is doing all the hard work anyway so if I didn't diverge from the topic in some form I'd really wouldn't be able to contribute to the thread at all.