My interpretation (with this trilogy of edits) is that the dyad began its inception during the interrogation scene between Kylo and Rey way back in TFA. The seeds were planted there for the dyad.
And then in TLJ, Snoke bridged their minds together so they could now Skype call, which really got the dyad ball rolling. (Not really the smartest plan ever, but hey. Snoke is a fool and thought Kylo would finally try to surpass his grandfather instead of doing the same killing-his-master thing Vader did. It’s fine.) But then they could continue the force Skype calls after Snoke’s direct influence was gone, because the dyad had become that much more powerful and just naturally flowed to take that form of communication. It’s a very Force-ey unexplainable spiritual thing, and I’m fine with it. (Emperor or Snoke didn’t know it could still go on afterwards, maybe?)
And finally, The Emperor wasn’t controlling Snoke’s every move; he just “made” him, as in trained him. And set him up as a figure head in the First Order, as Emperor was trying tirelessly to get a working clone of himself in order. So, he didn’t know what exactly was going on in Rey and Kylo’s heads, other than what Kylo was directly telling the Darth Vader helmet and to Snoke (who, I guess, was relaying it back to Palpy.) The Emperor knew they had a bond, he even says it’s a bond. He’s just surprised that it’s as powerful as it is, sending items back and forth. (He also didn’t know Ben was there in the other part of the building, so that’s also why he was shocked when the Skywalker saber disappeared) He might have only known that Snoke bridged their minds, not that it had materialized into a full blown “unseen for generations” style dyad.Something like this. I dunno. That might not make sense, or somehow contradict itself somewhere, but hey. It’s what I have to work with to make these movies connect properly.
I’m back and forth on the “every voice inside your head” line. On one hand, I can see how it’s kind of unnecessary to have both “I made Snoke” and “I’ve been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” lines back to back. One or the other is enough. But on the other hand, having both lines there doesn’t really take away anything for me, it’s just more explanation. I don’t mind the fan servicey presentation of it. Maybe, yeah, just remove the Vader breathing perhaps, if anything HAS to be changed there.
Basically, I’d only be upset if both lines are totally removed. I need SOME explanation in the actual film. We need to know that Palpatine “made” Snoke. It is important in trying to make this all makes sense, to directly connect Palpatine to Snoke. Not just the First Order, but to Snoke. At least for me. With the removal of the jar of Snokes in this edit, it leans more towards The Emperor meant he merely propped up Snoke, rather than literally created him, which is what we all want to have happen in Ascendant. But we need some of this dialogue to explain it. It’s messy and a little confusing and maybe still unnecessary to some, but I think it should be there. I’m also open to repurposing the lines for later on in the Vader helmet scene, like has been mentioned. Although, it would be weird to not have the Emperor tell Kylo at the start… but I digress. Either way, the line(s) need to not be completely removed, I feel.
Seconding all of this.
(You’ve actually clarified something very neatly in my head that I’ve been trying to pin down, for a slightly different type of edit I’m working on myself, so thank you.)
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Question: since the whole Snoke “bridged their minds” concept is such a problem after TROS, why didn’t Hal or Poppa delete it from their latest versions of TLJ? It doesn’t interrupt the flow of the scene whatsoever, and leaves some mysteries to be revealed in TROS that weren’t given an answer to. I can provide a clip of what I’m talking about because, like I said before, I did it in my own version of TLJ Rekindled.
My interpretation (with this trilogy of edits) is that the dyad began its inception during the interrogation scene between Kylo and Rey way back in TFA. The seeds were planted there for the dyad.
And then in TLJ, Snoke bridged their minds together so they could now Skype call, which really got the dyad ball rolling. (Not really the smartest plan ever, but hey. Snoke is a fool and thought Kylo would finally try to surpass his grandfather instead of doing the same killing-his-master thing Vader did. It’s fine.) But then they could continue the force Skype calls after Snoke’s direct influence was gone, because the dyad had become that much more powerful and just naturally flowed to take that form of communication. It’s a very Force-ey unexplainable spiritual thing, and I’m fine with it. (Emperor or Snoke didn’t know it could still go on afterwards, maybe?)
And finally, The Emperor wasn’t controlling Snoke’s every move; he just “made” him, as in trained him. And set him up as a figure head in the First Order, as Emperor was trying tirelessly to get a working clone of himself in order. So, he didn’t know what exactly was going on in Rey and Kylo’s heads, other than what Kylo was directly telling the Darth Vader helmet and to Snoke (who, I guess, was relaying it back to Palpy.) The Emperor knew they had a bond, he even says it’s a bond. He’s just surprised that it’s as powerful as it is, sending items back and forth. (He also didn’t know Ben was there in the other part of the building, so that’s also why he was shocked when the Skywalker saber disappeared) He might have only known that Snoke bridged their minds, not that it had materialized into a full blown “unseen for generations” style dyad.Something like this. I dunno. That might not make sense, or somehow contradict itself somewhere, but hey. It’s what I have to work with to make these movies connect properly.
I’m back and forth on the “every voice inside your head” line. On one hand, I can see how it’s kind of unnecessary to have both “I made Snoke” and “I’ve been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” lines back to back. One or the other is enough. But on the other hand, having both lines there doesn’t really take away anything for me, it’s just more explanation. I don’t mind the fan servicey presentation of it. Maybe, yeah, just remove the Vader breathing perhaps, if anything HAS to be changed there.
Basically, I’d only be upset if both lines are totally removed. I need SOME explanation in the actual film. We need to know that Palpatine “made” Snoke. It is important in trying to make this all makes sense, to directly connect Palpatine to Snoke. Not just the First Order, but to Snoke. At least for me. With the removal of the jar of Snokes in this edit, it leans more towards The Emperor meant he merely propped up Snoke, rather than literally created him, which is what we all want to have happen in Ascendant. But we need some of this dialogue to explain it. It’s messy and a little confusing and maybe still unnecessary to some, but I think it should be there. I’m also open to repurposing the lines for later on in the Vader helmet scene, like has been mentioned. Although, it would be weird to not have the Emperor tell Kylo at the start… but I digress. Either way, the line(s) need to not be completely removed, I feel.
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Question: since the whole Snoke “bridged their minds” concept is such a problem after TROS, why didn’t Hal or Poppa delete it from their latest versions of TLJ? It doesn’t interrupt the flow of the scene whatsoever, and leaves some mysteries to be revealed in TROS that weren’t given an answer to. I can provide a clip of what I’m talking about because, like I said before, I did it in my own version of TLJ Rekindled.
It’s not a problem at all. Snoke specifically said he bridged their minds to allow them to communicate with each other, he never said anything about the DYAD in TLJ.
Question: since the whole Snoke “bridged their minds” concept is such a problem after TROS, why didn’t Hal or Poppa delete it from their latest versions of TLJ? It doesn’t interrupt the flow of the scene whatsoever, and leaves some mysteries to be revealed in TROS that weren’t given an answer to. I can provide a clip of what I’m talking about because, like I said before, I did it in my own version of TLJ Rekindled.
It’s not a problem at all. Snoke specifically said he bridged their minds to allow them to communicate with each other, he never said anything about the DYAD in TLJ.
Arguably it is though. Just read some what some other people are commenting on here. It is very easy to assume after watching the sequel trilogy that one of the most intrinsic parts of a dyad is that the two can communicate with each other from across the galaxy. This would imply that Snoke created the dyad, or at the very least purposely enhanced it to the extreme. Even if this isn’t the case, it still leaves the viewers very confused because if Snoke serves Palpatine, then why didn’t Palpatine know about their connection?
We only know two things about being a Dyad - You can connect to each other remotely with the Force, and “A-newly-cloned-body-of-an-ancient-decrepit-Sith-Lord-can-absorb-most-but-not-all-of-their-combined-Lifeforce-energy-in-order-to-revitalize-his-body-change-his-eye-color-and-regrow-his-fingers-if-the-two-are-standing-next-to-each-other-in-front-of-him.” That’s just Storytelling 101, people.
If anything, I say cut the Dyad concept from TROS. At least in TLJ, Snoke bridging their minds is thematically relevant and conceptually nuanced.
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Interestingly enough, I recall during the leaking process of TROS that JJ was fiddling around with the idea of removing the dyad concept from his movie. Yes, I knew just about everything about the movie before watching it.
However, I personally find the concept infinitely more interesting than Snoke simply “bridging their minds”. That would suggest that Snoke is one of the most powerful beings to ever exist (even more so than Palpatine), because his mind-bridging allowed Rey and Kylo to literally exchange water from across the entire galaxy, and an entire lightsaber from like a mile away (not to mention that this would be postmortem).
Believe me, removing the dyad only creates more issues. It’s better to embrace it.
A lot of these debates (Force Dyad vs. “bridging their minds”; Palpatine “made” Snoke or not…) seem to be arguing between what makes for stronger internal continuity, and what makes for a stronger story thematically. My personal feelings tend to lean towards the latter, but there’s no objectively “wrong” answer. I’m curious what Hal thinks about all of this - he’s the man in charge, after all.
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Honestly, it sounds to me like people on here have two different approaches to fixing this film:
Obviously I am in the second camp. IMO, the problem with being in the first camp is that JJ purposely created a film here which completely flips TLJ on its head. If you start adjusting this film to do exactly the opposite, you won’t be left with much of a film. Maybe like an hour or so of footage.
Speaking of leaks, wasn’t there potentially a previous draft of the story where Palpatine did know about the dyad, and everything he was doing was a ruse to get Ben and Rey together so he could slurp their energy out? In the Skywalker Legacy documentary, Chris Terrio lets slip something about Palpatine knowing about the dyad at the beginning of the movie, which obviously is not true of the final edit.
Anyway, I feel like Palpatine knowing of the dyad, and that being his plan all along, is way more coherent: it gives Palpatine a singular goal (get Ben and Rey together on Exegol); explains how Kylo knows about the dyad (Palps tells him); and makes it less of a weird bit of crazy luck that Palpatine just suddenly finds a way to rejuvenate himself. It’d even create some dramatic irony/tension if the audience was clued in on this and knew Rey and Ben were headed to their doom when they rush to Exegol to face Palpatine. As a bonus, it removes any plot significance for Rey being a Palpatine, and makes it clearer why Palpatine would’ve wanted to turn Kylo to the dark side (besides it just being a middle finger to Luke, Leia and Han).
Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any feasible way to retrofit the final edit to this idea.
Speaking of leaks, wasn’t there potentially a previous draft of the story where Palpatine did know about the dyad, and everything he was doing was a ruse to get Ben and Rey together so he could slurp their energy out? In the Skywalker Legacy documentary, Chris Terrio lets slip something about Palpatine knowing about the dyad at the beginning of the movie, which obviously is not true of the final edit.
Yes, I seem to remember this as well, and I agree it would have made things more coherent. Unfortunately, JJ and crew seem to hate the idea of deleted scenes. Maybe way in the future when the whole sequel trilogy isn’t as much of a controversial topic they will release them.
Another option - keep the Dyad in V2, but prune it from Rey Nobody. People who have an issue with Rey Palpatine don’t like it because it strips Rey of her strength of character, only making her special by birth. If she’s also born as a Magical Dyad Entity, doesn’t that serve to achieve the same thing?
God damn, J.J. You were so determined to make sure Rey was special because of her blood, that you gave her a double birthright claim to power. Ffs
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Another option - keep the Dyad in V2, but prune it from Rey Nobody. People who have an issue with Rey Palpatine don’t like it because it strips Rey of her strength of character, only making her special by birth. If she’s also born as a Magical Dyad Entity, doesn’t that serve to achieve the same thing?
God damn, J.J. You were so determined to make sure Rey was special because of her blood, that you gave her a double birthright claim to power. Ffs
That is exactly what I’m thinking. I’m not Hal, but I think a Rey Nobody version of this edit should have all the things removed that we are currently disputing. I mean, you’re not going to be left with much of a film. Like I said, I would expect it to be about an hour to an hour and a half. But I feel that v2 should still be focused on improving TROS without removing any of its fundamentals.
Honestly, it sounds to me like people on here have two different approaches to fixing this film:
- Make TROS become more in line with what TLJ set up.
- Make TLJ become more in line with what TROS settles, and fix a couple issues with TROS here and there.
Obviously I am in the second camp. IMO, the problem with being in the first camp is that JJ purposely created a film here which completely flips TLJ on its head. If you start adjusting this film to do exactly the opposite, you won’t be left with much of a film. Maybe like an hour or so of footage.
The same could be said the other way around though. If you’re going to change TLJ to be in line with TROS, you’ll have to remove:
You have two films here that are completely opposed to each other - the story, the characters, the themes, the tones - everything is different. So if we want them to play nicely with each other on any level, we need to favor one story over the other.
I favor TLJ because I think it’s a better story. A stronger story. If you prefer the story laid out by TROS, that’s your opinion, and you’re not wrong for having it.
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The same could be said the other way around though. If you’re going to change TLJ to be in line with TROS, you’ll have to remove:
- Everything with Rey, as it all revolves around her learning that her parents were nobody.
- Everything with Kylo, as it’s all about him shaking off the past influences of the Jedi and Sith, and stepping out from the shadow of his Master…until he accepts Palpy as his master and takes the Sith Fleet.
- Everything with Poe, as it’s all about him learning to become a leader…until he abandons his forces 16 hours before Doomsday in order to shuttle Rey across the galaxy on a scavenger hunt.
- Everything with Rose, because “She’s not important. Lol what are you talking about?”
- I guess you can keep the Finn stuff, because his complete lack of any characterization in TROS arguably doesn’t contradict what he did in TLJ?
Thing is, I don’t share those opinions on what you should be removing from TLJ to make it more in line with TROS. I already rambled a little too much about why I think Kylo’s arc in TLJ actually lines up with TROS. I could argue against the rest of those as well, but quite frankly this isn’t the place for that (and who is going to bother reading it anyways).
I’m very much a pro TLJ person, but I like their relationship turning into a mystical dyad force.
They already had a force connection before TLJ; Snoke just opened the door for them to actually verbally communicate with it (I guess you could debate on what Snoke actually allowed them to do here, but the point is neither he or Palpy knew it was inadvertently creating a vessel for the dyad relationship to really blossom. “What Palpatine doesn’t know… is we’re a dyad in the force, Rey.”) And the abilities of their dyad are so unbelievably powerful, again, still unbeknownst to Snoke/Emperor, that they can instantly transfer items back and forth through the force itself. Kylo getting water on his face is like a foreshadowing to that, which is paid off with the lightsaber transfer at the very end.
I don’t see it as Rey was born with this ability, they just somehow latch onto each other and it creates a dyad. (Maybe through a love thing.) The dyad happens now because of their place in the story and the galaxy. Rey is still a nobody. Still works for me. Getting rid of the dyad bit in TROS belittles what the Rey-Nobody TLJ sets up. So if anything, a Rey Nobody TROS should be the one keeping the dyad, lol. At least in my eyes, I mean I dunno.
I might be grasping at some straws here, but hey.
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I’m very much a pro TLJ person, but I like their relationship turning into a mystical dyad force.
They already had a force connection before TLJ; Snoke just opened the door for them to actually verbally communicate with it (I guess you could debate on what Snoke actually allowed them to do here, but the point is neither he or Palpy knew it was inadvertently creating a vessel for the dyad relationship to really blossom. “What Palpatine doesn’t know… is we’re a dyad in the force, Rey.”) And the abilities of their dyad are so unbelievably powerful, again, still unbeknownst to Snoke/Emperor, that they can instantly transfer items back and forth through the force itself. Kylo getting water on his face is like a foreshadowing to that, which is paid off with the lightsaber transfer at the very end.
This.
THIS.
This was what I was trying to say!
I am against a “Rey nobody” edit; it would undermine her trilogy-spanning arc of overcoming her subconscious and irrational core belief that she is inherently worthless.
The whole point of Rey being Palpatine’s granddaughter is to reinforce her subconscious, irrational core belief that she is worthless, she becomes convinced that her lineage is the reason she is falling to the dark side and committing sins like unleashing Force lightning onto the transport and stabbing Kylo Ren in the chest with the very lightsaber he used to kill Han.
After she was abandoned by her parents, she subconsciously developed this irrational core belief that she is worthless, she subconsciously hates herself (she doesn’t actively hate herself, it’s a subconscious thing), she believes this lie that the only way to feel happy, to feel loved is if she gains love and worth from others as well as if she pleases others which would then result in said others giving her the love and worth she desires to make her feel happy; it is for this very reason she frees BB-8 from Teedo, why she bypasses the compressor on the Falcon, and why she tells Luke that she would not fail him in the way Kylo Ren did. She is essentially one who leeches off of others to give her the love and worth she wants.
After Rey gives into the dark side and mortally wounds Kylo Ren, as I stated, she becomes convinced that her lineage is the reason she is falling to the dark side, so she exiles herself because if she falls to the dark side she’ll make things worse for others instead of pleasing them, she’ll never get the love and worth she wants. She thinks that being Palpatine’s granddaughter inherently makes her even more worthless… that is, until Luke shows up and gives her a pep talk that just because she is Palpatine’s granddaughter doesn’t mean she is inherently worthless (for example, Leia knew of her lineage and yet still trained her regardless of her lineage, because she saw the spark or whatever in her).
She heads to the Sith Citadel on Exegol (the Citadel represents the subconscious and hidden part of her mind) to confront Palpatine and end the Sith for good, but he convinces her to kill him so she would become Empress and have control over his forces who are endangering her loved ones, her found family, if she refuses her loved ones, her found family, would be killed off; she accepts, knowing that if she becomes Empress and prevents the Final Order from killing her loved ones, her found family, she would obtain that worth for as long as she lives her life as Empress. Suddenly, Ben Solo, the one person whom she has had a close connection to through the Force for a long time, comes backs for her, showing her that he truly cared about her, that she is valuable, regardless of whether she becomes Empress or not; this allows her to refuse the ritual and stand against Palpatine. However, he then drains most of her and Ben’s dyad life energy (symbolic of how low self-esteem drains one of life and happiness) and gets rid of the one person who has showed Rey that she is valuable, leaving her all alone once more in the darkness; that is… until she calls out to the Jedi of the past, then all of them respond and convince her that she isn’t alone, that she is capable of rising, etc. This convinces her to refuse the lie she believed her entire life, that she is worthless, that she can only feel worth something if others give her their love, so she finally faces against Palpatine. He spits at her about how she is nothing and how she is unable to stand against him; she ignores his remarks and responds back with her own, self-made sense of self-worth and self-esteem… that “she… is all the Jedi.” She permanently destroys Palpatine, the personification of this irrational core belief, once and for all.
And people are still misreading her arc in TLJ, it isn’t about her being nobody, it isn’t about her “finding some purpose in this story,” it was never designed to disprove this “notion” that Force-sensitivity isn’t genetic (which was always the case in the films, most Jedi and Sith were nobodies FFS); it is about Rey accepting the fact that the belonging she seeks will never be her parents and she learns to stop caring about them because of what they did to her.
Rey wants to feel loved by her parents, she refuses to accept the truth that they think she is worthless, that nobody is there to care for her.
There is a reason why Rey spent all of her years, waiting for them to come back. She has been lying to herself that she has some grand destiny which is why her parents left her, showing that they love her and care for her, that she is worth something, but however… she wants to know what that destiny exactly is. She has been lying to herself that if she had learned what her destiny was via finding out who her parents were, she would feel loved, since in this hypothetical scenario they abandoned her for an important reason, showing how much they care for her. But they don’t.
When Kylo Ren gaslights her, she finally learns to stop living this lie, to accept the truth that they weren’t significant people who had a reason to leave her, but rather insignificant people who didn’t have an important reason for leaving her behind, that they didn’t care about her nor love her. The truth that they hated her. That she is worthless.
The “place in this story,” itself, never really mattered to Rey. She only intended to use it as a way to justify her parents abandoning her so she’d feel loved. So she’d belong to them, similar to how Woody wants to belong to Andy in the Toy Story films. The reason she says to Luke that she “needs someone to show her, her place in all of this” is that she wants to find her importance only for the sole purpose of using it to justify her parents abandoning her, feeding the lie that they cared about her and believed that she was worth something so that lie would never die off, so she’d feel loved.
But Rey is wrong. That’s the point. Her arc in TLJ is about accepting that the belonging she seeks will never be her parents or Luke Skywalker.
I guess I can see that argument, but I prefer for their dyad to be purely mystical rather than engineered in part by some dude. I find it better that the verbal communication was always possible but them meeting each other in TFA truly unlocked it.
I’m very much a pro TLJ person, but I like their relationship turning into a mystical dyad force.
They already had a force connection before TLJ; Snoke just opened the door for them to actually verbally communicate with it
Did they? At what point in TFA was it even implied that they were connected? When Kylo was trying to probe her mind just like he did to Poe?
And the abilities of their dyad are so unbelievably powerful, again, still unbeknownst to Snoke/Emperor, that they can instantly transfer items back and forth through the force itself. Kylo getting water on his face is like a foreshadowing to that, which is paid off with the lightsaber transfer at the very end.
I mean, I like the idea of object transference; I just don’t believe that we need to give it a name for the sake of adding a new Wiki page. I’m not saying we have to cut out every time they communicate via the Force; I’m just saying that giving it an arbitrary classification such as “They can do it because they’re a Dyad!” doesn’t add anything of worth to the film. And personally, I think classifying it in such a textbook way massively undoes its significance in a number of important ways.
And Testing, I appreciate the thought that you put into your analysis. I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation - for reasons that I won’t bother exploring here, as this really isn’t the place for that sort of discussion - but it’s not my intention to invalidate your opinion.
That being said, a lot of people are here discussing TROS edits because we don’t like the decisions made in the theatrical cut, and Hal himself said he wants a Rey Nobody version; so it’s all a bit of a moot point, isn’t it?
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I am against a “Rey nobody” edit; it would undermine her trilogy-spanning arc of overcoming her subconscious and irrational core belief that she is inherently worthless.
A lot of those points can also be used towards arguing that Rey being a nobody was indeed the point in TLJ and is what should have continued to happen in TROS! It’s a debate that will go back and forth for a long time, I think.
Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!
Hal did say he wanted a Rey Nobody edit, but that was going to happen after a v2. Right now there is a lot of discussion that would be better suited for when that edit enters into production.
Palpatine clearly says “the life force of your bond… a dyad in the Force” so it’s not something they were born with, but a connection that grows within them. So it doesn’t contradict Rey being a nobody, if anything it would strenghten that point if a nobody could develop such strong connection in the Force. And I also don’t see Snoke bridging their minds as a contradiction, but rather a step towards such a strong connection developing. Maybe it would help if Kylo said “What Palpatine doesn’t know is we’ve become a dyad in the Force, two that are one”.
As for the “every voice” line, I get that it doesn’t have to be litteral, that you can read it as hyperbole from Palpatine’s side. But I’m looking at it from the angle of the average viewer who either hasn’t seen the movie, or just hasn’t been dissecting it for months, and hasn’t read the expanded material. Palpatine says he has been every voice he has ever heard, while mimicking Snoke’s voice, it’s hard to read that as anything other than literal, that when Snoke talked it was actually Palpatine talking. If the line was only delivered in Palpatine’s voice it would be fine, as he could just be refering to the fact that he created Snoke, and Snoke turned Ben and became his Master. But the fact they make him speak in Snoke’s voice just makes it all confusing, when I saw the film in theaters I certainly thought they were saying Snoke was Palpatine all along.
Palpatine clearly says “the life force of your bond… a dyad in the Force” so it’s not something they were born with, but a connection that grows within them. So it doesn’t contradict Rey being a nobody, if anything it would strengthen that point if a nobody could develop such strong connection in the Force. And I also don’t see Snoke bridging their minds as a contradiction, but rather a step towards such a strong connection developing. Maybe it would help if Kylo said “What Palpatine doesn’t know is we’ve become a dyad in the Force, two that are one”.
100% agree with this, this is my mindset.
Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!
Palpatine clearly says “the life force of your bond… a dyad in the Force” so it’s not something they were born with, but a connection that grows within them. So it doesn’t contradict Rey being a nobody, if anything it would strenghten that point if a nobody could develop such strong connection in the Force. And I also don’t see Snoke bridging their minds as a contradiction, but rather a step towards such a strong connection developing. Maybe it would help if Kylo said “What Palpatine doesn’t know is we’ve become a dyad in the Force, two that are one”.
It’s still clearly something that you would have to be born with. Otherwise, why wouldn’t the brotherly bond between Anakin and Obi-Wan be considered a dyad? Or between any Jedi/Sith pairing in general?
EDIT: Already know what your response is. Yes, Snoke bridging minds might cause the dyad to form, but then why hasn’t that been done before? It’s just a massive plot hole across the saga. Furthermore, Kylo says that the effort to project like that would kill. If it kills Luke, then why doesn’t it kill Snoke? This suggests that he is utilizing something that has always been present.