The Rise of Skywalker: Untold (WIP)

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold is a WIP fan edit of Star Wars: Episode IX that I am trying to develop. Based on Hal 9000’s incredible Ascendant edit of the film, Untold hopes to take all of the enhancements designed for Hal’s version, and push the film still further by reworking a number of the core story elements. The primary goals are:

• Undo the “Rey Palpatine” retcon
• Provide Kylo with an actual arc that adds nuance to his character, and builds to his redemption
• Minimize Palpatine’s role in the film, making the story less about him and more about Rey
• Remove the subplot of Hux being a spy and inexplicably betraying everything he’s worked for over the course of the trilogy
• Further expand on the underlying concept, newly created for Ascendant, that the galaxy is rising up due to Luke’s sacrifice
• Several other tweaks to minimize the film’s contrived plotting

This is a fairly intensive reworking of the film, so I don’t have any release date in mind at the moment. But I’ll post updates on this thread as I’m working on it, so feel free to check back if you’re interested! (And if anyone wants to help out with audio or VFX, feel free to reach out!)

FULL THEORETICAL CHANGE LIST (all edits subject to change):

• Add Sith Whispers earlier in the prologue, so the Wayfinder effectively “calls out” to Kylo.
• Remove the vat of Palpatine clones during the prologue. Remove all dialogue, including Palpatine himself. Add additional Sith Whispers to guide Kylo through the scene instead.
• Remove the scene where Rey and Leia gleefully exclaim that “Nothing’s impossible!”
• Cut directly from Rey’s meditation practice to talking to Leia in the hangar.
• Recut Rey’s conversation with Leia in the hangar, so that the point of the conversation is on Rey “not feeling like [her]self,” instead of on her just feeling “tired, that’s all.” Reinsert the “hear the voices of the Jedi who came before” line that had been cut earlier.
• Remove Rey’s line about “I will earn your brother’s saber…someday.”
• Mirror shot of Poe saying “T-minus 5” in order to maintain a constant screen direction. Add a new line of Poe calling for Chewie to address Chewie not being in the cockpit during the previous shot.
• Remove any mention of a tree falling on BB-8 in the scene where the Falcon returns. Repair BB-8’s broken plating in wide shots during Finn’s and Poe’s return.
• Move Rey’s training course scene to after Poe berates her for focusing more on training than on helping the cause. (This way, it gives Rey a reason to be so angry and frustrated during the training course other than, you know, “the script.” It also directly leads from Rey’s vision to the larger conflict brewing, which feels like a nice connective through line.)
• Replace shots of Baby Rey and Ochi during Rey’s vision with shots of Finn and Poe in danger, to foreshadow her new inner conflict that will be explored later.
• During the Intel Briefing, cut out all references to Palpatine, focusing the discussion instead on the newly discovered Sith Fleet.
• Add new C-3PO line: “Legend describes [Exegol] as a hidden temple to the Sith.” (To maintain continuity within SW canon that the Sith Planet was actually Moraband.)
• Add new C-3PO line: “The Sith would bring their followers to Exegol, and force them to build weapons and monuments to their power.” (To offer an explanation as to how the Sith Fleet would be fully manned and ready to go, let alone how it was built in the first place.)
• Tweak the dialogue between Rey and Leia to suggest that the Wayfinder information was catalogued by the Jedi, rather than by Luke himself. This hopefully papers over a gap where TLJ implies that Luke had never read the books in the Tree Temple, whereas TROS says that he was actually using the Sacred Jedi Texts as his personal diary.
• Change Rey’s line from “Find Exegol, find the Emperor,” to “Find Exegol, stop Kylo Ren.”
• Cut Rey’s line, “You were right before,” mainly to give the scene transition a half-second to breathe. (Also because the line makes no sense in context.)
• Use different shots of 3PO and R2 as they are saying goodbye before the mission.
• Cut Leia’s line “Never be afraid of who you are” to avoid yet more overt exposition.
• Modify Kylo’s vision slightly from the version used in Ascendant. Rather than hearing Palpatine’s voice, Kylo now thinks back to Rey promising to help him in TLJ – and remembers her betraying that promise (in his eyes) by not joining him.
• Mirror the first shot of Kylo wearing his new mask, for better sense of screen direction.
• Add new Knights of Ren dialogue when they enter the board meeting, and a new Kylo line as a response, to imply that the KOR killed Alien Mark Hamill. (By having the Knights kill Alien Man™ instead of Kylo, it both begins the new direction for the Spy subplot, as well as establishing the Knights of Ren immediately as dangerous, ruthless adversaries.)
• On Pasaana, remove Poe’s line about “The First Order likes to patrol parties like this.” (You know, parties that occur every 42 years on underdeveloped desert planets on the edge of the galaxy while their power is already being stretched by a galaxy-wide uprising? Yeah, they patrol those all the time!) Hopefully, this helps to lull both the heroes and the audience into a fall sense of security, and thus makes the ensuing scuffles more intense. It also helps the new puppet show sequence to make more sense in context – Why would the locals be making fun of the First Order directly in front of First Order troopers?
• Trim Rey’s conversation with the kid who gives her the necklace, to avoid the awkward, over-the-top “What’s your FAMILY name? Don’t you have a FAMILY??” nonsense.
• Swap Kylo’s line “Palpatine wants you dead” for his later line “Wherever you are, you’re difficult to find.” Trim Rey’s responses to match.
• Trim “HAVE TO kill you” and “And turn you to the Dark Side” from Kylo’s dialogue.
• Try to normalize the screen direction when Rey is running away from the Force Skype Call, so that she doesn’t appear to be running in circles.
• Remove Lando’s line “Leia sent me a transmission,” to maintain the suspense about whether or not this mysterious man can be trusted.
• Add a line for Poe before Lando’s identity is revealed – “You with the Resistance?” (Taken from TFA)
• Modify Lando’s cabbie’s voice to make it sound more alien, rather than him just screaming “OKAY!”
• Remove the scene of Random First Order Officer telling Kylo that they were able to track Rey’s necklace to the Pig People of Pasaana. (For one, it feels very contrived that the First Order was only able to track them because some random kid gave Rey a necklace 90 seconds ago. What would Kylo have done if he connected with Rey earlier? What was his plan? For another, how quickly is the First Order able to mobilize and travel to a random desert planet? Star Wars has never been very consistent about how fast Hyperspace travel is; but it shouldn’t be instantaneous. I’d prefer to have Kylo discovering them through vague means that are open to interpretation, rather than over-explain every minute detail of the plot. It also serves to make Kylo a more threatening presence, and the danger more immediate. He’s not just “somewhere” in the galaxy; he’s right on top of them! Grabbing the necklace isn’t reduced to some mechanical plot device now; it’s a psychological power play.)
• Remove Rey recognizing Ochi’s ship from her childhood.
• Trim Poe cartoonishly asking Rey, “Did you get all of them–?” just as the last stormtrooper pops up out of nowhere and blows up their ships. (Could we swap in a call from Finn instead? Playing with different ideas, currently.)
• Trim everyone firing willy-nilly on the last, lone Jet Trooper, in order to cut some of the excess out of the film. (Idea by bbghost.)
• Add an extra wide shot of the Pasaana valley before they start slipping into the quicksand, for pacing.
• Trim Poe’s line “I don’t like bones.” (It feels like it comes out of nowhere, and is never relevant again. Now, 3PO can once again be the nervous one of the bunch with his “Never a good sign” comment, which feels more in line with both of their established characters.)
• Remove 3PO saying that he can translate the Dagger – he just can’t relay that translation – to try and make the Dagger subplot less contrived.
• Remove the quips between Finn and Poe as Rey approaches the snake in the cave, to preserve the tension of the scene.
• Replace one of the Knights of Ren dialogue lines that was added in Ascendant. Specifically, swapping “I get his teeth” for “Call in the transports.” (This lampshades a slight logical gap where two entire ships of First Order troops apparently went unnoticed by any of the heroes, and/or magically appeared between shots; and it also makes the Knights of Ren less “sadistic hunters” and more “ruthlessly efficient soldiers.”)
• Add a quick flashback to Rey’s vision of her parents leaving her, before trying to prevent losing Chewie the same way. (Going back and forth on this one for now; feel free to weigh in.)
• Try to fix the screen direction when Rey is holding the ship so that Finn’s eyeline matches the rest of the action.
• Rearrange some lines during the discussion about going to Kijimi, so that Poe is more concerned about potentially destroying 3PO than about bumping into his ex.
• Add all new audio and dialogue throughout the Kijimi sequence, as well as rearranging and adding some shots and scenes, to imply that Kijimi has been actively protesting the First Order, rather than being merely passively oppressed by them. (Their inspiration for doing so will be revealed later.) A conflict is now occurring elsewhere in the settlement, which serves as a dramatic undercurrent during the Trio’s mission to the planet. (Initial concept by RogueLeader)
• Remove Zorii’s line about “Your friend used to be a spice runner,” as well as the subsequent quips about “You used to be a spice runner??” (Both to maintain pre-TROS canon about Poe’s upbringing, and also to provide a more somber tone so soon after “killing” Chewie.)
• Restructure the conversation between Poe and Zorii on the rooftops, so that Zorii encourages Poe to listen to the protesters in the distance. He hears that they have been inspired by Luke’s heroic sacrifice; and that, in turn, is what gives him the strength to continue the fight. This way it can tie into the new subplot of Luke inspiring the galaxy, and also ties back into Poe’s goals during The Last Jedi – “We are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down.”
• Trimmed Zorii saying “Remember?” to Poe. Remember what?
• Replace 3PO’s line immediately before deactivation, so as to preserve his humor without undermining his bravery.
• Add a new scene of Kylo on the Falcon, where he finds Han’s dice.
• Replace 3PO’s Dagger translation. It now says that the wielder must submit to the Dark Side in order for the location of the Wayfinder to be revealed. (Idea by RogueLeader)
• Trim Poe asking to kiss Zorii.
• Replace a line of dialogue so that Finn doesn’t question the importance of retrieving the dagger.
• On Kylo’s ship, Finn, Poe, and Chewie don’t get re-captured a second time. Hux doesn’t help them escape.
• When Rey enters Kylo’s bedroom, add a new vision sequence when she picks up the dagger – this vision reveals that the Wayfinder is located on the Death Star. Recolor Rey’s eyes so that they turn yellow as she embraces the dagger’s influence, showing her slipping into the Dark Side. During this vision, include a shot of Palpatine to reveal his involvement for the first time in the story.
• Completely rework the Kylo’s Quarters conversation. This scene now outlines Rey’s new central conflict, explores Kylo’s newly refined motivations, and further establishes Palpatine’s return. In a nutshell, Kylo tells Rey that she’ll only be powerful enough to defeat Palpatine if she submits to the Dark Side. This gives her a legitimate temptation to turn, rather than “evil genetics,” or whatever the heck J.J. and Chris mistakenly took for a character arc.
• Mirror the shot of Vader’s helmet’s plinth being destroyed, to maintain screen direction with the surrounding shots.
• Replace Kylo’s dialogue in the hangar to set up new, personal stakes for Rey: If she doesn’t ally herself with Kylo to stop Palpatine, her friends will die. (Hence the vision she had earlier of them in danger.)
• Tweak Kylo’s dialogue slightly so that he’s not trying to kill Palpatine out of a hunger for power; but rather, he’s trying to stop Palpatine because he knows Palpatine would be a plague on the galaxy and destroy everything. This way, Kylo becomes a more nuanced character; which subsequently also makes Rey’s journey more interesting, because it makes Kylo’s offer to her more appealing.
• Modify the Falcon’s rescue in the hangar slightly so that Rey seems lost for a moment – obsessed with Kylo – before Finn is able to snap her back to her senses.
• Reinsert the Kylo phone call scene, but replace the dialogue so that Kylo now searches for Rey through the Force instead. This provides a chance for Kylo to actually hunt Rey (without relying on stupid, convenient gimmicks like the Pig Necklace), it provides a logical explanation for how he tracks her to Endor (and, retroactively, explains how he found her on Pasaana), and the voiceover will imply that Rey is also telling Finn and Poe to go to Endor, since they weren’t around for that reveal in this version. The scene now also expands on the idea of the wider galaxy rising up against the First Order.
• Change Rey’s dialogue on the Falcon to explore why she still won’t join Kylo, even to stop Palpatine: “He killed his father. Ren. It’s too late. I’m going to destroy him.” Add some subtle, Sith-y whispers in the background as she’s zoning out.
• Reverse the order of scenes on board the Falcon before arriving at Endor, going from Rey and Finn first to Poe second. Poe’s line “Landing gear’s busted? How busted?” now forms a direct segue into their crash landing. Add an additional shot of Chewie to pad out the scene, taken from the deleted “Lightspeed Skipping” sequence.
• Remove Jannah saying that Babu sent her a message. (The original line implies that Babu sent this message out at random, and simply hoped that no First Order sympathizers would hear it. It’s sloppy, shoehorned, and superfluous.) Add a new 3PO line (and rebuild his movement sound effects) to compensate.
• Restructure Jannah’s scene with Finn slightly to imply that Finn’s story is what inspired her and her friends to leave the First Order. (Not only does this add some sense of payoff to Finn’s origins, but it also ties back in with the lessons about “inspirational heroes” that Finn and Rose shared in TLJ.)
• Add an extra line for Finn, saying that the Force brought him to Jannah.
• Recut Leia heroically hobbling away to her death (Why is she already so weak? She hasn’t done anything yet.) as well as Maz’s on-the-nose line that Leia is about to kill herself. Refocus the scene around Leia instead of Maz.
• Rather than Force Pushing Finn away, Rey now zaps him with a bolt of Force Lightning, depicting her further slide towards the Dark Side.
• Depict the broken lightsaber as dying and fizzling out during the Death Star fight. (Idea by Jar Jar Bricks)
• Restructure Leia’s death scene so that she dies as Ben is saved. Add additional dialogue of her trying to save her son one final time. (Aside from the thematic parallels, you could also assume now that Leia is sacrificing her own lifeforce to save her son’s… rather than Leia simply losing the will to live when they ran out of Carrie Fisher footage.)
• After Rey leaves Ben “stranded” on the Death Star, add a shot of Ben holding Han’s dice before Han appears, in order to tie TROS back in with TLJ, and to symbolize Han’s presence.
• Add a new, abridged version of the scene where Palpatine summons Pryde. Rather than a full-blown conversation, Palpatine now simply whispers “Come…” into Pryde’s mind. This way we can tease Palpatine more before his ultimate reveal, without spoiling him on such an inconsequential moment.
• Swap Finn’s scene with D-O and Poe’s scene with Lando for better tonal pacing.
• Remove the scene where Finn and Poe discuss D-O’s connections to Exegol, to avoid Palpatine being involved in Rey’s childhood. Scenes now go BEN’S REDEMPTION > EMPEROR SUMMONS PRYDE > FINN AND D-O > POE AND LANDO > AHCH-TO
• Cut Luke’s line “A Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect.” So does Rian Johnson, J.J.; so does Rian Johnson.
• Cut Luke’s line “It was fear that kept me here.” Modify his line “What are you most afraid of?” to “What are you so afraid of?” for better logical flow. (This is to stay true to Rian Johnson’s explicit intention in Episode VIII – that Luke would never go into hiding out of cowardice.)
• Add new dialogue for Rey, lamenting all of the people she’s hurt due to her lack of control.
• Remove Yoda’s Theme when Luke (who is not Yoda) lifts the X-Wing (which is not Yoda) out of the water (in which Yoda is not swimming) for Rey (who is also not Yoda). Replace it with the new “Rise of Skywalker” Theme.
• Remove 3PO getting his memory back, so that his sacrifice has consequences.
• Modify 3PO’s dialogue slightly to help establish the lack of memory restoration: “[This R2 unit] is receiving a transmission.”
• Move the scene of Finn, Poe, and Rose analyzing the Exegol weather reports to after Rey’s transmission, implying that the atmospheric data was transmitted along with the coordinates.
• Trim Merry’s patronizing tone as he refers to Chewie as his “buddy.” Chewie’s a veteran of three galactic wars at this point, not a moping child.
• Remove the borderline tasteless reference to the “Holdo Maneuver” (Merry’s delivery feels too chipper when he says, “Remember when our commanding officer sacrificed both herself and our most valuable ship in a desperate, last-ditch attempt to save the Resistance? We should launch more suicide bombings!” [Ackbar Jr. nods excitedly at the thought of killing himself.])
• Trim Poe saying that destroying the Navigation Tower will leave the First/Final Order stuck on Exegol “for just minutes,” because if they don’t have a means of navigating off of the planet, surely the First/Final Order would be stuck on Exegol “forever,” right?
• Build an all-new sequence depicting the Sith Fleet preparing for launch, intercut with shots of Rey flying through the nebula-thingy. Use Palpatine’s transmission speech about “The Day of the Sith” as a montage voiceover, now repurposed as an inspirational speech to his own followers, instead of a public service announcement to the galaxy at large.
• Recolor the Sith Technicians’ helmets black, to try and make them look less like red, plastic, Halloween costumes.
• Reinsert the vat of Palpatine clones as Rey is walking towards Palp’s evil lair, serving as both a logical explanation for how Palpatine is back, and also a psychological buildup to Palpy’s big reveal.
• Cut the secondary Navigation Tower from the Exegol battle – why wouldn’t the First/Final Order just switch back to that tower once Pryde’s command ship is destroyed?
• Rework Palpatine’s dialogue with Rey to avoid any references to Palpatine being related to her, as well as references to “Palpatine’s master plan was to lure Rey here.”
• Trim Finn saying that they only need to stop the navigation signal from transmitting “Till help arrives.” I suppose after Lando shows up, it doesn’t really matter if the enemy gets away and destroys the galaxy? Okay, Finn, sure; you do you.
• Add a couple of shots of Hux to the Exegol battle, just to show that we haven’t forgotten about him, the poor guy.
• Mirror the shot of Finn and Jannah charging (retreating?) during Palpatine’s dramatic monologue for better sense of screen direction. The fact that I don’t even know what they’re trying to do in this shot just shows how badly it was directed.
• Trim a shot of Rey seemingly “sensing” Ben arriving on Exegol. (I assume she doesn’t actually sense him at this point, because why would she go along with Palpatine’s plan if she knows backup is almost here?)
• Trim Rey’s dumb, overly-telegraphed nod that she’ll go along with Palpatine’s plan.
• Add Kylo calling out to Rey before she “sees” him on Exegol. His final line of the trilogy is no longer “Ow.”
• Trim Poe saying that the Navigation Tower is down, “but not for long.” (He just saw it blow up from the inside; why would he assume that it’s going to be back online in a minute? And why would Finn & Co. start to leave if they knew the job wasn’t done? And why does it comes as a shock to Finn that the Nav Tower is rebooting if Poe says that it will? Four words haven’t made so little sense in a Star Wars movie since “I don’t like sand.”)
• Try to correct some of the flip-flopping screen direction issues throughout the Exegol battle.
• Add a line of dialogue to establish that some Star Destroyers have started launching from Exegol. (This establishes a ticking clock to the battle, and also explains why four Star Destroyers are suddenly out and about in the galaxy during the closing montage.)
• Remove Zorii from the final battle, so that her sacrificing her medallion to Poe earlier actually has consequences and means she’s stuck on Kijimi.
• Add a new line into the Jedi Voices mix for Plo Koon. (Given how Dave Filoni has so much influence in the franchise, and Plo is his favorite character, it’s weird that he wasn’t included in the first place.)
• Move Poe’s line “Nav Signal’s Down!” to right before he says “The fleet is stuck here!”
• Move Rey’s apparent death to immediately after defeating Palpy. (This way Rey doesn’t just drop dead out of the blue.)
• Trim Lando’s senile laughter as Finn and Jannah are mere seconds away from falling to their deaths.
• Remove Finn’s reaction to Rey’s death. (Nothing against his being Force-sensitive personally; but since all of the other “set up” to him using the Force will be cut for various reasons, it doesn’t feel right to try and introduce that element this late in the film.)
• Cut Rey and Ben’s kiss.
• Completely reedit the reunion scene during the finale. Zorii is gone, Chewie doesn’t get a medal for “Exemplary Fan Service,” Lando doesn’t awkwardly flirt with someone later retconned via Twitter into his heretofore unmentioned daughter. Yoda’s Theme, like Yoda himself, is not present. Recut the scene to subtly imply a romantic interest between Finn and Poe.
• Insert a new scene of 3PO and R2 during the post-Exegol reunion, where 3PO asks to hear of their time together, and thus they begin to rebuild their friendship anew. (Based on an idea by RogueLeader)
• Cut the old woman out of the ending, as well as the trite “Rey Skywalker” line.

Sherlock, this is so cool! Had no idea you were planning to start your own edit! There’s a lot of great stuff here. I’ll definitely keep up with your progress and contribute however I can.

This sounds great, I can’t wait to see it when it’s finished! Also good job posting on 2:22.

Thank you!

So many of my proposals here are “based on RogueLeader’s idea,” so I definitely appreciate the help! I’ve never attempted something of this scope before, so it may all crash and burn around me; but hey, might as well try, right?

hinventon said:

Also good job posting on 2:22.

Thank you for catching that! I was watching that clock like a hawk lol.

This sounds mostly really awesome. A few things:

I want the Rey/Ben kiss. So yeah, that doesn’t work for me. Also don’t like that Ben clearly still dies, but so much of this does sound great.

Seocond, erm: --> Four words haven’t made so little sense in a Star Wars movie since “I don’t like sand.”

WHAAAAAT?!

That was a brilliant line (badly delivered). It was about Tatooine and all that it represented, and like he said the opposite of what Padme was. It just meant so much and was (a) a callback to his childhood as a slave, being owned by someone, and the freedom that his mother never got, and (b) foreshadowing for what was to come with Shmi’s death because “sand” was representative of Tatooine.

Ahem, sorry. Just had to get that out.

arabian said:

This sounds mostly really awesome. A few things:

I want the Rey/Ben kiss. So yeah, that doesn’t work for me. Also don’t like that Ben clearly still dies, but so much of this does sound great.

Seocond, erm: --> Four words haven’t made so little sense in a Star Wars movie since “I don’t like sand.”

WHAAAAAT?!

That was a brilliant line (badly delivered). It was about Tatooine and all that it represented, and like he said the opposite of what Padme was. It just meant so much and was (a) a callback to his childhood as a slave, being owned by someone, and the freedom that his mother never got, and (b) foreshadowing for what was to come with Shmi’s death because “sand” was representative of Tatooine.

Ahem, sorry. Just had to get that out.

Ha! I knew someone would call me on that! It was just a little joke, don’t worry. (“Certain point of view” is honestly much more contrived, if less of a meme.)

I’ll keep an open mind on the kiss. Mainly, I remember dreading it in the theatre, and then I completely deflated when it actually happened. But who knows? Maybe I’ll be like Rey - suffering an abusive relationship with this story for so long that I eventually embrace it romantically. 😉

I will say that I never picked up on much sexual tension between the two of them (other than maybe the shirtless scene in TLJ). So really, it just feels like a very…I dunno, unhealthy foundation for a romance. But I’m open to having my mind changed - goodness knows there’s still plenty of time for that to happen!

Hal 9000 said:

Another thread to keep a close eye on. Sounds like an ambitious changelist, and I have learned my lesson about underestimating what’s possible. I like several of your ideas, so I’ll do what I can!

I might have already said this at some point, Hal - I tried to do an edit like this when the Bluray first came out, and it was a disaster. The only reason I think this is feasible at all is because Ascendant gave me such a strong foundation on which to build. So thank you!

I’ve always been on the Reylo side of things, but I remember family members being really confused and taken out of the moment when Rey and Ben kissed. Since it didn’t work for a lot of people, I wouldn’t mind if it was removed. I actually kind of think it works better if Ben isn’t rewarded for his sacrifice, if that makes sense. I don’t know though.

I will watch this thread with great interest.

No seriously, this sounds really ambitious but really cool. You’ll have something special on your hands if you even manage to accomplish half of it!

sherlockpotter said:

Maybe I’ll be like Rey - suffering an abusive relationship with this story for so long that I eventually embrace it romantically. 😉 […] it just feels like a very…I dunno, unhealthy foundation for a romance. But I’m open to having my mind changed - goodness knows there’s still plenty of time for that to happen!

Rey/Ben is actually the OPPOSITE of unhealthy and toxic. It’s just been very misrepresented. Rey fell for BEN, not Kylo. She saw through Kylo, wanted to save Ben from the darkness he was lost in. But she realized at the end of TLJ that she couldn’t save him. He could only save himself. We saw awesome, healthy, NON-TOXIC-NESS on display because Rey walked away from Kylo when he wouldn’t stop being, well, Kylo, and continued to embrace the Dark Side.

She continued to want nothing to do with Kylo throughout TRoS. And when she saved his life, she let him know that she wanted to take BEN’S hand, not Kylo’s. And that was like a LIGHTBULB going off in Ben’s head. He could be loved as Ben Solo, something that he hadn’t realized. He didn’t have to be this dark, brooding bad boy, essentially. He could try and be a good guy. That is who Rey wanted, that is who she cared for… the guy who had good in him. Remember she had seen inside his head in TFA, she knew what his childhood and teenage years – where he had been manipulated and abused emotionally, mentally, and physically by Snoke. That was who she was reaching out to. The guy who, like her was looking for a place to belong.

And in the end, BEN made the choice to reject Kylo Ren and save himself, and then go and try to help save the galaxy. He made the healthy choice and it was only at that point that Rey accepted him because he had rejected Kylo Ren.

TLJ, again, set this up beautifully – which had actually started in TFA – but sigh the ball was dropped in quite a few ways in TRoS. double sigh

Best of luck, Sherlock! I can’t agree with your interpretation of certain key events, but I’m really curious to see how the movie can be morphed by your particular view. You did some great work for Ascendant, and some of the stuff in your change list is pretty interesting.

Since you’re going with the “Rey nobody” route, are you planning to tackle all the necessary changes on your own? Or will you wait for things to materialize on that thread? The angle you’re going with seems very similar to what RogueLeader was working on.

EddieDean said:

• Not important at all, but is Exegol supposed to be Moraband/Korriban? Wookiepedia doesn’t seem to make that link.

They went out of their way to call it the “secret world” of the Sith, rather that the Sith “homeworld”, to avoid contradicting canon. Though it’d pretty much be presented as such to someone who’s only watched the movies, they couldn’t use Moraband since that’s a known planet and not hard to access, so they came up with a new “secret” Sith planet that would fit the story they were going with.

Tbh I think it makes sense, Sith were thought to be extinct, and part of it is that Moraband was completely deserted. But the Sith had been moving in the shadows all along, so in this way Exegol works as the new, secret world of these secretive, plotting Sith.

Maybe your new 3PO line could call it the hidden fortress of the Sith.

Burbin said:

Best of luck, Sherlock! I can’t agree with your interpretation of certain key events, but I’m really curious to see how the movie can be morphed by your particular view. You did some great work for Ascendant, and some of the stuff in your change list is pretty interesting.

Since you’re going with the “Rey nobody” route, are you planning to tackle all the necessary changes on your own? Or will you wait for things to materialize on that thread? The angle you’re going with seems very similar to what RogueLeader was working on.

I so appreciate that, Burbin! You’re referring to the Exegol battle stuff, right? Haha, I know we’ve debated this in the past, but I still feel like it can be streamlined a bit more. I’m putting it on the list for now, but we’ll see what happens!

RogueLeader and I have actually been discussing a few different elements here, include Rey Nobody - you’re right, I think we both have very similar interpretations for how we want to play it. I think my version is going to be different from the other Rey Nobody versions though, mainly because of how I’m incorporating all of these other elements along with it. For example, the way I’ve rewritten Kylo’s Quarters in my version, it’s not just a straight 1:1 “replace dialogue with Rey Nobody stuff”; I’m working on new dialogue for Kylo that will tie together something like five all-new story elements. It’s tricky, but everything seems to make sense in my notes! Once I start locking things in place, I’ll probably post some test scenes to see if they make sense for you guys, too.

So to answer your question, my plan is to hopefully include some of the parts that have already been developed by other folks, mixed in with additional new dialogue that I’m working on myself.

arabian said:

sherlockpotter said:

Maybe I’ll be like Rey - suffering an abusive relationship with this story for so long that I eventually embrace it romantically. 😉 […] it just feels like a very…I dunno, unhealthy foundation for a romance. But I’m open to having my mind changed - goodness knows there’s still plenty of time for that to happen!

Rey/Ben is actually the OPPOSITE of unhealthy and toxic. It’s just been very misrepresented. Rey fell for BEN, not Kylo. She saw through Kylo, wanted to save Ben from the darkness he was lost in. But she realized at the end of TLJ that she couldn’t save him. He could only save himself. We saw awesome, healthy, NON-TOXIC-NESS on display because Rey walked away from Kylo when he wouldn’t stop being, well, Kylo, and continued to embrace the Dark Side.

She continued to want nothing to do with Kylo throughout TRoS. And when she saved his life, she let him know that she wanted to take BEN’S hand, not Kylo’s. And that was like a LIGHTBULB going off in Ben’s head. He could be loved as Ben Solo, something that he hadn’t realized. He didn’t have to be this dark, brooding bad boy, essentially. He could try and be a good guy. That is who Rey wanted, that is who she cared for… the guy who had good in him. Remember she had seen inside his head in TFA, she knew what his childhood and teenage years – where he had been manipulated and abused emotionally, mentally, and physically by Snoke. That was who she was reaching out to. The guy who, like her was looking for a place to belong.

And in the end, BEN made the choice to reject Kylo Ren and save himself, and then go and try to help save the galaxy. He made the healthy choice and it was only at that point that Rey accepted him because he had rejected Kylo Ren.

TLJ, again, set this up beautifully – which had actually started in TFA – but sigh the ball was dropped in quite a few ways in TRoS. double sigh

Ahhh, okay, that’s a really good explanation, thank you! Probably the first time that relationship has made sense to me, at least on paper.

I think the problem though (in my own interpretation of the films) is twofold:

1. Yes, Rey saw the good (i.e. the “Ben”) in Kylo in TLJ, but I didn’t interpret that as “I’d bone ya if only you’d stop slicing people and objects in half with your lightsaber in violent fits of rage.” I took that to mean that she might forgive him someday; perhaps even be friends. But again, that’s such a huge leap from “You’re not completely evil,” to “I’m totally in love with you, let’s make out.” I think TROS could have developed that into romantic feelings, but I don’t think it did.

2. I don’t see “Ben” and “Kylo” as distinct characters, except in the abstract. Actually, that’s one of the things I most enjoy about Kylo, and that I wanted to emphasize in my edit - that under the suit he’s still a relatively normal guy who misses his family. The flipside of that coin is that he’s a relatively normal guy who’s done some absolutely monstrous things, both to the galaxy at large, and to Rey personally. This is the guy who knocked Rey unconscious, kidnapped her, tortured her, and then blew up an entire system of planets in a diabolical power grab. The guy is a fascist, a terrorist, and a murderer, regardless of whatever goodness he may also have; and I don’t buy that Rey would start snogging him immediately after witnessing all of that.

RogueLeader said:

Maybe your new 3PO line could call it the hidden fortress of the Sith.

Yes, that would be amazing!

Also, I love your cutlist, Sherlock, especially adding more of Luke’s influence for the galaxy & not making Kylo subservient to Palpatine.

So long as we’re refocusing on character arcs, why not give some love to Poe? When all the ships show up at the end, anyway the ships can make reference to Poe’s rousing ship as the Resistance gears up for Exegol? Here’s the speech for reference:

First Oder wins by making us think we’re alone. We’re not alone. Good people will fight if we lead them. Leia never gave up. And neither will we. We’re gonna show them we’re not afraid. What our mothers and fathers fought for we will not let die. Not today. Today we make our last stand. For the Galaxy. For Leia. For everyone we’ve lost.

You somewhat have that with the lines in Ascendant like “We believe in you, Poe” and “For Skywalker,” but you could tie it together a bit more with lines like “The Skywalkers never gave up & neither will we” or “We’re not afraid, First Order,” something like that.

sherlockpotter said:

arabian said:

sherlockpotter said:

Maybe I’ll be like Rey - suffering an abusive relationship with this story for so long that I eventually embrace it romantically. 😉 […] it just feels like a very…I dunno, unhealthy foundation for a romance. But I’m open to having my mind changed - goodness knows there’s still plenty of time for that to happen!

Rey/Ben is actually the OPPOSITE of unhealthy and toxic. It’s just been very misrepresented. Rey fell for BEN, not Kylo. She saw through Kylo, wanted to save Ben from the darkness he was lost in. But she realized at the end of TLJ that she couldn’t save him. He could only save himself. We saw awesome, healthy, NON-TOXIC-NESS on display because Rey walked away from Kylo when he wouldn’t stop being, well, Kylo, and continued to embrace the Dark Side.

She continued to want nothing to do with Kylo throughout TRoS. And when she saved his life, she let him know that she wanted to take BEN’S hand, not Kylo’s. And that was like a LIGHTBULB going off in Ben’s head. He could be loved as Ben Solo, something that he hadn’t realized. He didn’t have to be this dark, brooding bad boy, essentially. He could try and be a good guy. That is who Rey wanted, that is who she cared for… the guy who had good in him. Remember she had seen inside his head in TFA, she knew what his childhood and teenage years – where he had been manipulated and abused emotionally, mentally, and physically by Snoke. That was who she was reaching out to. The guy who, like her was looking for a place to belong.

And in the end, BEN made the choice to reject Kylo Ren and save himself, and then go and try to help save the galaxy. He made the healthy choice and it was only at that point that Rey accepted him because he had rejected Kylo Ren.

TLJ, again, set this up beautifully – which had actually started in TFA – but sigh the ball was dropped in quite a few ways in TRoS. double sigh

Ahhh, okay, that’s a really good explanation, thank you! Probably the first time that relationship has made sense to me, at least on paper.

I think the problem though (in my own interpretation of the films) is twofold:

1. Yes, Rey saw the good (i.e. the “Ben”) in Kylo in TLJ, but I didn’t interpret that as “I’d bone ya if only you’d stop slicing people and objects in half with your lightsaber in violent fits of rage.” I took that to mean that she might forgive him someday; perhaps even be friends. But again, that’s such a huge leap from “You’re not completely evil,” to “I’m totally in love with you, let’s make out.” I think TROS could have developed that into romantic feelings, but I don’t think it did.

2. I don’t see “Ben” and “Kylo” as distinct characters, except in the abstract. Actually, that’s one of the things I most enjoy about Kylo, and that I wanted to emphasize in my edit - that under the suit he’s still a relatively normal guy who misses his family. The flipside of that coin is that he’s a relatively normal guy who’s done some absolutely monstrous things, both to the galaxy at large, and to Rey personally. This is the guy who knocked Rey unconscious, kidnapped her, tortured her, and then blew up an entire system of planets in a diabolical power grab. The guy is a fascist, a terrorist, and a murderer, regardless of whatever goodness he may also have; and I don’t buy that Rey would start snogging him immediately after witnessing all of that.

Ah, see so this is where we differ:

You see “Kylo knocked Rey unconscious,” I see Kylo and Rey fought, he won, and instead of having his guards drag her to the ship – someone who had valuable information in this war, he gently picked her up and carried her onto his ship. Also, I feel that JJ made a VERY distinct choice to show the difference in how Kylo interrogated Poe as opposed to Rey. He didn’t torture her. He went into her mind, yes, but then she went into his mind and took info from him as well. Yes, you could say she didn’t know what she was doing, but even after she realized, she KEPT doing it. Overall, though, Kylo was gentle with Rey trying not to hurt her to get the info (as opposed to Poe – again, at war, opposite sides. Not to say that what Kylo did to Poe was right, it was wrong.)

Also, no, he didn’t blow up an entire system of planets. That was Snoke/Hux. In fact, when Hux suggested it, Kylo even made a comment about wanting to try and get the info from Rey again, but Snoke shut him down. Kylo also wasn’t there when Hux gave his whole big Nazi speech. Once Snoke gave the go-ahead, Kylo had no say. The supplemental material said that his cape had static dampening qualities due to Snoke’s attacks against him. So, if he fought against Snoke, we know what would happen.

Look, I’m not saying that Kylo wasn’t majorly problematic, but he was also someone who felt abandoned, was mentally, physically, and emotionally abused by Snoke his literal entire life (the mental and emotional abuse). And he was drawn to the Light. He did try to avoid hurting Rey more than he could. When they fought at the end of TFA, he held back. Rey was more the aggressor, Kylo fought more defensively. And we’re dealing with the Dark Side. The Dark Side severely messes with a person’s soul and had been messing with Ben Solo his entire life. Rey saw the good in him; she knew he could be turned. And she was right. Ben felt like his family, his parents, his uncle gave up on him when he was in his teens. He felt abandoned; Rey did too. Add to that, they were a literal Dyad in the force, connected in a way that was extremely rare. They could feel each other across literal space.

So, yeah.

OK, I’m done.

And I DO really want to see what you do with this because your ideas are really exciting.