Vladius said:
And it does come across as a disguised lecture. The two major POV characters we have (Mon and her cousin) both disapprove of it, with the only caveat being that Mon is a little bit too heavy handed with trying to talk her daughter out of it. The rich person dialogue is very one note, ooh, look how rich and comfortable these people are. The ritual is supposed to be creepy and ominous, and the part where the groom cuts Leida’s braid is given a hard cut like she got killed by a horror movie slasher.How is any of that substantive as commentary, but the surrounding story elements are overindulgent? There isn’t even really “rich person dialogue” ala Succession in the way you describe - most of the scenes are between the main players and Mon’s family. The juice of those interactions is secretly navigating around the surrounding context, and the fraught interpersonal relationships in that double-context. Hell, I don’t even think the notable Perrin speech is even an outright indictment of him - if anything it humanizes him and rounds out his character. He’s not happy with the arrangement either!¹
It’s not even a real culture to critique, if it’s meant to be lecture (which, again, is still beyond what most media is actually doing sans after school specials). What’s supposed to be hard about this for Mon and Perrin is the “selling their child” part of it, not the idea of tradition itself. Certainly not in a show where those are threatened by a pointedly secular Empire weaponizing customs against its various communities.
¹ I could even keep going with Sculdun as a fun character because he’s not from the world of wealth blue-blooded Mon is. but i digress
If I’m remembering correctly there are actually scenes in season 1 and 2 where Mon is uncomfortable with her daughter being into the traditions, and not just because the boy is involved. (I think there’s a part where she’s singing or chanting or something with a bunch of other girls.) It’s part of the clash between her cosmopolitanism as a senator and her native environment, but you can tell that it’s implicit that the audience is expected to lean more on the cosmopolitan side. Which is a fair bet, for the target audience.
The other implicit criticism is that this is all wasteful and decadent because a war is going on. We have revolutionaries dying in the trenches for a galactic war, while these snooty people think they get to have a nice wedding on their home planet and put their heads in the sand. Again, somewhat fair, but we got the point the first time.
Of course that’s all in there, but it’s not The Point™ is all. I don’t see it as overly belabored because there is so much else going on through it. It’s the means of the story, not the end. It’s not moralizing when the whole thing is so nuanced.
“We will make it clear that no one steals from the Empire. The use of any local custom, festival, or tradition as cover for rebel activity will trigger permanent revocation of Imperial tolerance.”
-Yularen (1.07), antagonist
Which is what the marriage is! A cover for Mon’s financing Luthen, and it is portrayed as, yes, something Mon would rather not do. That Perrin would rather not do. But does that then indict Ferrix and Aldhani for their tradition and customs? Is the show moralizing against those non-cosmopolitan, indigenous cultures? Which again, still aren’t real or even 1:1 with anything. The marriage is a net good for the rebellion, these episodes are primarily about Mon’s interiority, about that family. Those characters have feelings about it, Gilroy definitely feels arranged child marriage is bad. In the main theme of sacrifice, that equation, something needs to be. But it’s just that… an integer.
Yes, the epicureanism is most self evident as a contrast to what’s going on on Mina Rau or Yavin. Of course. But again, it also functions to dimensionalize the characters like Perrin. Joy and comfort, escapism in a hard world, is only human. It’s how he copes with his loveless marriage, which paints a picture of what he would have wanted for his daughter instead. It’s pointedly not a portrayal of snootiness or flippancy. As a lecture, that’s a mixed message. Especially when surrendering to the excess is ultimately how Mon herself can cope with the events of the episodes. There is empathy all throughout the show for why one’s commitment to the cause can waver, why you would choose comforts. The furthest the show ever gets in that lens to moralizing is a call to Try where you can.
This is all just part of what is meant when these themes are explored. Maybe they could have done something else, maybe more to catch up on the gaps like you said, but at the same time - the show already manages to communicate everything in those gaps alongside what it did.
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
I got the sense that the daughter’s embrace of tradition was a negative thing as well, which rubbed me a bit the wrong way and seemed a bit hypocritical in the context of the show. But I’d have to rewatch things to analyze it more deeply.
Well I never said it wasn’t, but that is rooted in Mon’s POV more than it is A Message™ of the show. (Though is anyone pro-arranged child marriage?) Its inclusion overall is in an observational mode more than a didactic, critical one. It’s an interesting note on how younger generations / diasporas can seek more strongly traditions that older generations or a homeland might have moved on from. Mon’s dislike of it, is a reflection of her identity as a liberal imperial senator.
It’s all contextual either way, the show isn’t a blanket pro-all tradition or anti-all “progress”. Similarly in how it’s not a black and white pro-materialism, anti-spiritualism take on Star Wars, as much as that is a reflection of Cassian himself. It all meets in the middle or horseshoes, manifest throughout all the characters.
It’s all interesting and cool, and is taking cues from the messiness of history. It’s just a shame to primarily engage with it as a game of What Is Tony Gilroy’s Intended PsyOp™? That’s not what the show is doing!
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
I’m gonna be completely honest, the good reception around Andor might be a bigger tragedy for the series and the genre itself over anything the Sequels did.
It might be a while before I get to watch a new space opera movie/show that tries to replicate what made the Originals enjoyable, every artist will try to chase the sort of appraisal Andor got. Mandalorian and all other Disney projects missing the mark eventually only makes this work.
But oh well, who am I to argue with the zeitgeist?
Well I never said it wasn’t, but that is rooted in Mon’s POV more than it is A Message™ of the show. (Though is anyone pro-arranged child marriage?) Its inclusion overall is in an observational mode more than a didactic, critical one. It’s an interesting note on how younger generations / diasporas can seek more strongly traditions that older generations or a homeland might have moved on from. Mon’s dislike of it, is a reflection of her identity as a liberal imperial senator.
It’s all contextual either way, the show isn’t a blanket pro-all tradition or anti-all “progress”. Similarly in how it’s not a black and white pro-materialism, anti-spiritualism take on Star Wars, as much as that is a reflection of Cassian himself. It all meets in the middle or horseshoes, manifest throughout all the characters.
It’s all interesting and cool, and is taking cues from the messiness of history. It’s just a shame to primarily engage with it as a game of What Is Tony Gilroy’s Intended PsyOp™? That’s not what the show is doing!
That’s a good point. I suppose I’m used to the sympathetic characters in a show also embodying the values we’re supposed to agree with, which isn’t giving enough credit to this show.
I don’t agree with child marriage, of course, but the first scene that came to my mind was actually the gathering of Leida and her friends in the first season.
Vladius said:
And it does come across as a disguised lecture. The two major POV characters we have (Mon and her cousin) both disapprove of it, with the only caveat being that Mon is a little bit too heavy handed with trying to talk her daughter out of it. The rich person dialogue is very one note, ooh, look how rich and comfortable these people are. The ritual is supposed to be creepy and ominous, and the part where the groom cuts Leida’s braid is given a hard cut like she got killed by a horror movie slasher.How is any of that substantive as commentary, but the surrounding story elements are overindulgent? There isn’t even really “rich person dialogue” ala Succession in the way you describe - most of the scenes are between the main players and Mon’s family. The juice of those interactions is secretly navigating around the surrounding context, and the fraught interpersonal relationships in that double-context. Hell, I don’t even think the notable Perrin speech is even an outright indictment of him - if anything it humanizes him and rounds out his character. He’s not happy with the arrangement either!¹
It’s not even a real culture to critique, if it’s meant to be lecture (which, again, is still beyond what most media is actually doing sans after school specials). What’s supposed to be hard about this for Mon and Perrin is the “selling their child” part of it, not the idea of tradition itself. Certainly not in a show where those are threatened by a pointedly secular Empire weaponizing customs against its various communities.
¹ I could even keep going with Sculdun as a fun character because he’s not from the world of wealth blue-blooded Mon is. but i digress
If I’m remembering correctly there are actually scenes in season 1 and 2 where Mon is uncomfortable with her daughter being into the traditions, and not just because the boy is involved. (I think there’s a part where she’s singing or chanting or something with a bunch of other girls.) It’s part of the clash between her cosmopolitanism as a senator and her native environment, but you can tell that it’s implicit that the audience is expected to lean more on the cosmopolitan side. Which is a fair bet, for the target audience.
The other implicit criticism is that this is all wasteful and decadent because a war is going on. We have revolutionaries dying in the trenches for a galactic war, while these snooty people think they get to have a nice wedding on their home planet and put their heads in the sand. Again, somewhat fair, but we got the point the first time.
Of course that’s all in there, but it’s not The Point™ is all. I don’t see it as overly belabored because there is so much else going on through it. It’s the means of the story, not the end. It’s not moralizing when the whole thing is so nuanced.
“We will make it clear that no one steals from the Empire. The use of any local custom, festival, or tradition as cover for rebel activity will trigger permanent revocation of Imperial tolerance.”
-Yularen (1.07), antagonist
Which is what the marriage is! A cover for Mon’s financing Luthen, and it is portrayed as, yes, something Mon would rather not do. That Perrin would rather not do. But does that then indict Ferrix and Aldhani for their tradition and customs? Is the show moralizing against those non-cosmopolitan, indigenous cultures? Which again, still aren’t real or even 1:1 with anything. The marriage is a net good for the rebellion, these episodes are primarily about Mon’s interiority, about that family. Those characters have feelings about it, Gilroy definitely feels arranged child marriage is bad. In the main theme of sacrifice, that equation, something needs to be. But it’s just that… an integer.
Yes, the epicureanism is most self evident as a contrast to what’s going on on Mina Rau or Yavin. Of course. But again, it also functions to dimensionalize the characters like Perrin. Joy and comfort, escapism in a hard world, is only human. It’s how he copes with his loveless marriage, which paints a picture of what he would have wanted for his daughter instead. It’s pointedly not a portrayal of snootiness or flippancy. As a lecture, that’s a mixed message. Especially when surrendering to the excess is ultimately how Mon herself can cope with the events of the episodes. There is empathy all throughout the show for why one’s commitment to the cause can waver, why you would choose comforts. The furthest the show ever gets in that lens to moralizing is a call to Try where you can.
This is all just part of what is meant when these themes are explored. Maybe they could have done something else, maybe more to catch up on the gaps like you said, but at the same time - the show already manages to communicate everything in those gaps alongside what it did.
It’s simple coding. Chandrila is decadent rich person/creepy coded, Aldhani is simple rustic indigenous coded, and Ferrix is blue collar working class coded. The other two are sympathetic already because they’re just trying to get by. All the non-Imperial main point of view characters of the show are in the Rebellion. Perrin is specifically criticized for not caring about anything. There’s some nuance there but I think you’re exaggerating it.
Those aren’t even codes, just accurate¹ descriptions? Either way, literally every word you’re using has their own weight to unpack. Do you just disagree that we can? I’m not trying to exaggerate, but things live beneath the surface especially in something like Andor.
¹I think creepy is doing a lot of heavy lifting to whatever your point is.
Like, the scoring for this scene for example, isn’t “creepy.”
The speech is pretty much a microcosm of everything I’m talking about. I’m not digging deep here
Perrin is specifically criticized for not caring about anything.
not exclusive to anything I’m saying
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
According to this People article…
‘Star Wars Fans Rejoice: The Mandalorian and Grogu Set for Digital Release This July (Exclusive)’
• Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu will be available on digital platforms July 21 and on Blu-ray August 25
• Bonus content includes behind-the-scenes featurettes on Grogu’s puppeteering and audio commentary by director Jon Favreau
a snippet…
'The cuteness that is Grogu is going straight from the big screen back to your home as Disney’s Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu sets its digital release.
The movie released in theaters on May 22, and PEOPLE can now exclusively reveal the film sequel to the beloved Star Wars spinoff series will arrive on digital platforms, including Prime Video, Apple TV and Fandango, on July 21. The film will also be available on 4K Ultra HD and Blu-ray on August 25.
The digital and Blu-ray versions feature bonus content that includes behind-the-scenes featurettes, one of which delves into the crafting of Grogu, the beloved character introduced in The Mandalorian, colloquially known as Baby Yoda.’
and…
‘The digital and Blu-ray copies of the movie will also include audio commentary by director Jon Favreau, as well as other featurettes that break down how the worlds in the movie were created.’
Edit: Polygon have an article up with images and details of bonus features of the physical media releases…
'The Mandalorian and Grogu will get a digital release on July 21 on platforms including Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV, and Fandango. A 4K Ultra HD and Blu-ray release is scheduled for Aug. 25, with a SteelBook version and a “Beskar Collector’s Edition” coming alongside standard Blu-ray and DVD releases.
The film’s Beskar Collector’s Edition will include special packaging, a SteelBook case, metal posters, and the film on 4K UHD and Blu-ray discs, with a digital code included. The stand-alone SteelBook release includes the film on 4K UHD and Blu-ray discs, with a digital code included.’
Bring Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu Home - a StarWars•com article with all the specs - though no pricing info.
The Mandalorian and Grogu U.S. Home Video Physical Media Releases Announced - a 4 minute video from Nathan Butler.
Pricing info…
UK - £25 4K/UHD, £16 blu ray, £11 DVD - amazon info. - £150 Beskar Collectors Edition - Zavvi info
US - $50 4K/UHD + Digital code, $25 blu ray, $20 DVD - $220 Beskar Collectors Edition - amazon info.
EU - €35, 4K/UHD - €20 blu ray, €20 DVD - €115 ‘Collector Iconart’ - amazon France info.
A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…
Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com - includes info on how to ask for a fan project and how to search for projects and threads on OT•com.
We’re a community here - not ‘a download site’ - so join in with the discussions: do NOT lazily make ‘link request’ posts / new threads asking for projects.
https://collider.com/the-mandalorian-ended-disney-star-wars-featurette/
‘A new official Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu behind-the-scenes featurette lists The Mandalorian as running from 2019 to 2023, apparently identifying Season 3 as the end of the Disney+ series. Now, Lucasfilm has not released a formal cancellation statement, and a fourth season has never officially been ruled out, but placing an end date beside the show in official marketing strongly suggests the studio no longer considers it an ongoing television series.’
I do not think this means it is officially cancelled, but it is weird that the feature does say ‘The Mandalorian 2019-2023’
Pedro Pascal is too busy with Avengers: Secret Wars, Fantastic Four 2 and possibly The Last of us season 3, among other projects he has committed too. Could they bring him back? Maybe, it just depends, but for now, not happening, not for at least a couple of years.
‘The Mandalorian and Grogu are coming home. Experience Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu, streaming September 2nd on @DisneyPlus’ - https://x.com/starwars/status/2088279481228357990
A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…
Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com - includes info on how to ask for a fan project and how to search for projects and threads on OT•com.
We’re a community here - not ‘a download site’ - so join in with the discussions: do NOT lazily make ‘link request’ posts / new threads asking for projects.
That Beskar Collectors Edition is very overpriced for what you get in it. I hope the theatrical OT won’t be priced like that, but will be more like the 4K pricing.
That Beskar Collectors Edition is very overpriced for what you get in it. I hope the theatrical OT won’t be priced like that, but will be more like the 4K pricing.
Speaking of which, I guess d23 didn’t bring any updates on the OOT. I suspect we’ll know more by December, but it would’ve been nice to hear some more official details.
I did hear that Filoni apparently gave a Jedi mind trick “we’re not working on that” reply in response to a question about the New Republic movie, which has been interpreted to mean that it is indeed still potentially happening.
Didn’t Filoni respond to people who wanted the Hunt for Ben Solo. An obviously shelved fake movie. That will never be made or happen.
I wonder if the Rey Skywalker movie is another one of those.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfJicqH6oB8 - a 31 minute video from the superb Nathan Butler youtube channel.
The blurb: ‘This episode of From the Star Wars Home Video Library focuses upon the five U.S. releases for The Mandalorian and Grogu in August 2026. This includes DVD, Blu-ray, 4K, SteelBook, and Beskar Collector’s Edition.’
The US prices: DVD $20, blu-ray (and digital code) $25, 4K $30, steelbook $45, beskar collectors edition $220.
The UK prices: DVD £11, blu-ray (no digital code) £16, 4K £25, steelbook £35, beskar collectors edition £150.
The EU prices: DVD €20, blu-ray (no digital code) €20, 4K €25, steelbook €35, beskar collectors edition €150.
The AUS prices: DVD A$32, blu-ray (no digital code) A$40, 4K A$63, steelbook A$73, beskar collectors edition A$327.
As of 2nd September the film is also available on Disney+ - https://x.com/starwars/status/2095187747019583552
A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…
Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com - includes info on how to ask for a fan project and how to search for projects and threads on OT•com.
We’re a community here - not ‘a download site’ - so join in with the discussions: do NOT lazily make ‘link request’ posts / new threads asking for projects.
I enjoyed his video more than I did the movie.
I actually enjoyed the movie. =) There’s not a lot of character development, but Grogu does come through big to help Mando when he needs it, which was really fun. =) I can’t really fault it, there’s nothing bad or really irritating in it at all. It’s a big adventure that Mando and Grogu go on, and Mando even gets a proper Razor Crest, his clearly preferred ship, back in the process, so they have their home away from home back, and they get into all sorts of danger with plenty of action and we get to see some new interesting places. I think it’s good fun, we essentially get more of the series, which at this point I’ll take. Hopefully there will be a season 4 that is more like the first two seasons not long from now. Maybe after Ashoka season 2.
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.
