ROS is bad, yes, we know. But why is this one line the thing that people always point to? — Page 3

JadedSkywalker said:

Anakin brought balance to the force by doing away with the Sith which is undermined by his own return of Darth maul story treatment

I think moreso really if Maul is still a sith. Which I don’t think he needs to be.

“Somehow Palpatine returned” never bothered me because they literally say right after that “dark science, cloning… secrets only the Sith knew” which literally means that Palpatine is a clone. I honestly don’t know what the big deal is. and no, I don’t like this movie.

I think the line of dialogue isn’t that bad, but do think Oscar Isaac made it better, or less worse, than it could have been if delivered by a lesser actor.

The whole thing with mentioning Palpatine’s return in the crawl, and having to watch a Fortnite video for more, then only a brief mention of it in the film before he was strange and poorly done.

LJDunk52 said:

I think the line of dialogue isn’t that bad, but do think Oscar Isaac made it better, or less worse, than it could have been if delivered by a lesser actor.

The whole thing with mentioning Palpatine’s return in the crawl, and having to watch a Fortnite video for more, then only a brief mention of it in the film before he was strange and poorly done.

100%. Just awful marketing.

I think Lando and Luke’s part of the story being in a book instead of in the film was also a terrible decision.

There is little that Disney ever does with Star Wars that is a good decision, or makes sense to the greater sense of a plan. or a general idea of continuity.

Do Jon and Dave have a plan or just winging it. JJ’s Rise of Palpatine was where Disney Star Wars came apart. Its foundation was sinking sand in the beginning. But the 9th movie made Attack of the Clones look like Citizen Kane or something.

It was just a bunch of member berries. and poorly adapted EU stories. and remaking Return of the Jedi because its poetry, it rhymes.

JadedSkywalker said:

I think Lando and Luke’s part of the story being in a book instead of in the film was also a terrible decision.

There is little that Disney ever does with Star Wars that is a good decision, or makes sense to the greater sense of a plan. or a general idea of continuity.

Do Jon and Dave have a plan or just winging it. JJ’s Rise of Palpatine was where Disney Star Wars came apart. Its foundation was sinking sand in the beginning. But the 9th movie made Attack of the Clones look like Citizen Kane or something.

It was just a bunch of member berries. and poorly adapted EU stories. and remaking Return of the Jedi because its poetry, it rhymes.

I disagree with it being worse than AOTC tbh. I still like a lot of what ROS contains in isolation. The main issue was that they didn’t really have a broad plan because they wanted to mimic the production pattern of the original trilogy. However movies just don’t work that way these days. There are shorter production cycles and release cycles, and for the originals, people weren’t expecting a sequel to even happen, let alone a trilogy.
Also the fact that it’s Disney caused a major issue - not because of Kathleen Kennedy, but because of her bosses. She’s head of Lucasfilm, but Disney is in charge of Lucasfilm. ROS was the result of insane executive overreach trying to “course correct” after Last Jedi due to the backlash. So they forced JJ Abrams to come back, learning the wrong lesson from the success of TFA, forced story changes that undercut the weight of some story beats in TLJ, again learning the wrong lessons. It wasn’t the broad strokes story points of TLJ that really had major issues, it was the execution.

In my experience I think the popular mode of thought is that Disney ruined everything and everything they do is garbage. I see a lot of unfair criticisms about ROS even though there are plenty of things wrong with it.
I still can’t think of a single line in ROS that’s worse than the disastrous dialogue of AOTC. I still find it more watchable and entertaining. At least the moment to moment action I find much more satisfying. The problem is that it’s just super messy. The pacing is relentless. They don’t allow any moments to really land, and insert scenes which have literally no purpose just to bridge a gap between scenes, etc. But I’ll take a messy but fun movie over a drab, boring, plot-hole riddled movie.

Honestly I think that the post-ROS releases have been the worst. BOBF, Mando S3, Kenobi, Asohka, The Acolyte… Just utterly friggin horrendous. I still believe Dave Filoni is a total hack who should have stayed in the animation lane, because that mofo can’t get a good performance out of real life actors to save his life. All his new stuff is just navel gazy crap in my opinion.

timmaaaah said:

I disagree with it being worse than AOTC tbh. I still like a lot of what ROS contains in isolation.

Liking it, I think is a different from it not being worse.

In my experience I think the popular mode of thought is that Disney ruined everything and everything they do is garbage. I see a lot of unfair criticisms about ROS even though there are plenty of things wrong with it.
I still can’t think of a single line in ROS that’s worse than the disastrous dialogue of AOTC. I still find it more watchable and entertaining. At least the moment to moment action I find much more satisfying. The problem is that it’s just super messy. The pacing is relentless. They don’t allow any moments to really land, and insert scenes which have literally no purpose just to bridge a gap between scenes, etc. But I’ll take a messy but fun movie over a drab, boring, plot-hole riddled movie.

I think nearly none of the dialogue has any real point of value in TROS. Dialogue being poorly done, to me, is different from the dialogue being just poor. I think TROS has more natural dialogue arguably, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s better, more better executed in what I think is mostly not much.

What plot holes are in that movie? And does you seeing it as drab and boring make it worse than TROS, or more something you’re more entertained by? As for me, I’d take a movie that is telling a story over a movie that I think is a contrived fetch quest repeat of ROTJ, with I think little to no point.

Yeah, the point is Rey’s entire arc is Luke’s story purpose of restoring and rekindling the spark of the Jedi order.

Kylo’s was to finish what Vader started in wiping them all out.

Its fairly simple storytelling but very bland and uninspired, a requel trilogy.

Leia’s mission is the same as the OT restoring democracy, so what was the point of the New Republic.

Luke failed he passes the Lightsaber, Han died just to touch his son’s face. Leia dies for some reason?

Somehow Lando is older but still the same charming rogue. And he saves everyone.

TROS has contrived dialogue just as wooden and awful as the prequel. They fly now, Somehow Palpatine Returned. All that stuff about I’m all the Sith and I’m all the Jedi. A Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect. Rey goes to that planet to Jake Skywalker and Luke tells her to not make his mistakes.

Luke is only a Jedi master in the trilogy when either he is a force ghost or a force projection. When he does stuff like floating the X-wing. Or Astral Projects a younger more badass version of himself. It’s almost like they didn’t know what to do with him.

I feel the Sequels would be better received if they revealed in Starfighter that Rey had become a Sith but that wont happen i feel Starfighter is in danger of flopping at the box office if Rey appears doesnt Lucasfilm know that the reason Star Wars is losing popularity is because of the Sequels? not mentioning them and pretending they dont exist would be best for everyone just cast Amy Adams as Mara Jade dont mention Rey or Kylo Ren and everyone will be happy next year when they see Starfighter

MinchD36 said:

I feel the Sequels would be better received if they revealed in Starfighter that Rey had become a Sith but that wont happen i feel Starfighter is in danger of flopping at the box office if Rey appears doesnt Lucasfilm know that the reason Star Wars is losing popularity is because of the Sequels? not mentioning them and pretending they dont exist would be best for everyone just cast Amy Adams as Mara Jade dont mention Rey or Kylo Ren and everyone will be happy next year when they see Starfighter

… Star Wars isn’t losing popularity because of the sequels. The sequels were done 6 years ago. It is losing popularity because of the last 6 years of (mostly) crap. That, and people are craving more original stories.

And to your point… They have been ignoring the sequels. The only element they’ve retained from the sequels are those little droid service guys like Babu Frikk and tbh those guys rule. Not one piece of live action Star Wars has had any connection to the sequels since 2019.

I would bet all the money I have on Rey not showing up in Starfighter. Starfighter is a standalone film. But at the same time… Rey simply showing up would not affect the box office in any way. If it was highlighted in a trailer, perhaps it’d do some damage.

It is in danger of flopping because Star Wars budgets are not under control, and because people are sick of it. The cobstant slew of Star Wars streaming content makes Star Wars feel disposable. The box office environment is not suited to films that cost hundreds of millions to produce and market. That’s just the reality of the current era.

You’re indulging that hate boner a bit too much. Maybe stop looking at what is frankly, the failure of one movie 6 years ago (two movies if you hate TLJ but that’s divisive) and consider all the rest of the crap.

Madalorian S1 and S2 - Solid, fine.

Book of Boba Fett - Terrible, with 2 solid mando episodes in them for some reason. Worse than ROS.

Kenobi - Horrendous with maybe one decent scene after a bunch of episodes which were complete dogwater. EASILY worse than ROS.

Andor - Fantastic. Totally ruled.

Ahsoka - Utterly fucking terrible and in my opinion is the worst Star Wars has ever been with the exception of one flashback scene and that one cool shot of the space whales. Worse than even the worst aspects of ROS.

Mando S3 - Sucked absolute shit. Terrible acting, directing, story was meandering and toothless, and they even did a stupid BOBF thing, putting an episode about something entirely separate in the middle with awful acting and characters who we don’t care about, trying to set something up that never paid off.

The Acolyte - Started interesting and had a cool saber scene early in the show, but collapsed into a nonsensical, incoherent mess by the end.

Skeleton Crew - Tbh it was pretty good imo. Very different and far removed from everything else but that worked for it.

Maybe look at that track record over the past 6 years. That is why Star Wars is less popular. Some of the shows they’ve put out since then have made Rise of Skywalker look great in comparison (it’s not, I know).