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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 351

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Hal 9000 said:

If we wanted to remove the line, I imagine it’d be best to simply remove the footage where it takes place. Maintain the pace, just without that line present.

I agree with Hal. If the line is going to removed, the scene will have to be tightened up around it in order to avoid a lot of dead space.

As for whether or not to… I go back and forth. On one hand, it’s just about the only time the movie even tries to connect TROS with the rest of the trilogy. On the other, did we (the audience) ever hear Vader speak to Kylo in the other films?

In TFA, when Kylo is speaking with Vader’s helmet, I kind of like the idea that he’s begging Vader for guidance, but he hears nothing in return; because Vader became Anakin again, and Kylo doesn’t realize that “Vader” is gone. That was always my read of the scene; and I suppose, thinking about it, Palpy’s “I’ve been pretending to be your Evil Grandfather! Bwa ha ha!” line does undo a lot of that nuance.

EDIT: If we decide to gut that line, it would probably just be easier to cut the Snoke part too, and just say “My boy…the First Order is just the beginning.” As Jarbear said, Snoke seemed to be operating independently of Palpy; and at this point, Snoke doesn’t even matter to the story. He’s already been removed from the Clone Vat (thank God for that, by the way). Maybe it would be stronger/more logically consistent to just have Palpy stand apart from Snoke entirely? Sort of take over where Snoke failed?

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

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Hal 9000 said:

“At last. Snoke trained you well.”

“I killed Snoke. I’ll kill you.”

“My boy, I made Snoke… The First Order was just the beginning. I will give you so much more.”

“You’ll die first.”

“I’ve died before. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you. As all the Sith live in me.”

If we wanted to remove the line, I imagine it’d be best to simply remove the footage where it takes place. Maintain the pace, just without that line present. The Snoke line remains prior to any shots walking us closer to Palpatine including his clone vat.

Not sure whether to, but if so that’d probably be best.

You know, I never really had a problem with the “Voices” line. But, I actually really dig the sound of this change.

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I like that line too, so I hope that if it’s cut from the opening at least it’s moved to another scene like the mask vision.

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My reasoning for putting the line “I made Snoke” over the shot of the Sith machinery was precisely to cut on the dead space between it and “The first order was just the begging”, connecting the two. It could probably be tightened and better paced by someone that knows proper editing.

I dunno, to me that single line is even more damaging to the plot of the previous movies than making Rey a Palpatine. Blurring the line between Snoke and Palpatine makes the struggles in VII & VIII feel like a joke. The whole fight against the First Order, and Kylo freeing himself from Snoke’s grasp. It all just feels like nothing (that + the Snoke pickle jar, it’s like they wanted it to feel like a joke). All of that just to insert a James Earl Jones cameo. If they’re kept as separate entities, at least they’d each be a separate threat that is dealt with in each movie.

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Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

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jarbear said:

As for a personal view too, it’s better to at least imply there is distinction to the two since in the last movie, although it is a retcon now of the whole Kylo/Rey Mind Bridge connection is now the Dyad stuff … Palps was utterly surprised during the force draining thing … when we have Snoke in the previous movie that “he bridged their minds.” If Snoke is the Meat Puppet, then Palps did it … so there should be no surprise.

Now I know the whole Dyad thing was of JJ doings to help explain things and it was not the concept at all from the previous movie, and you can argue he just bridged their minds as in being able to communicate in the force, but at another level compared to like Luke and Vader reaching out in the original movies and didn’t know about there Dyadness/in the room/etc., but for the audience we saw it in the last movie and now it has a name … and Snoke did something in the last movie to affect what we saw then and now … but he is Palpatine’s Meat Puppet … Why is he surprised and taken back by it? Even if he didn’t know for sure, he would have suspected something … but he didn’t.

This kind of questioning is why in my personal edit of TLJ Snoke does not say that line. Instead, he simply says, “Young fool. I stoked Ren’s conflicted soul. I knew he was not strong enough to hide it from you and you were not wise enough to resist the bait.” As a result, Snoke does not admit to knowing anything about the dyad. I feel this is a good change because their dyad most likely started in TFA in the torture chamber or possibly even earlier. (Remember him saying, “What girl?” like he knew who the officer was talking about?)

On the other hand, even if he did know about it, it might not necessarily be an issue. As I said previously, although Palpatine has some influence over Snoke, I do not believe he knows his every thought and action. It’s not like he sees Snoke’s perspective through a VR screen.

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sherlockpotter said:

Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

This is definitely an improvement, I like the inclusion of the medal shot but the colors differing in the original definitely makes it stick out poorly. I’d be interested to see a more blue one like you said.

And regarding why Palpatine was confused by the dyad power if Snoke was on some level a meat puppet, I’ve always just assumed that Snoke was lying about “bridging their minds”. This instantly fixes that issue lol

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Burbin said:

My reasoning for putting the line “I made Snoke” over the shot of the Sith machinery was precisely to cut on the dead space between it and “The first order was just the begging”, connecting the two. It could probably be tightened and better paced by someone that knows proper editing.

I dunno, to me that single line is even more damaging to the plot of the previous movies than making Rey a Palpatine. Blurring the line between Snoke and Palpatine makes the struggles in VII & VIII feel like a joke. The whole fight against the First Order, and Kylo freeing himself from Snoke’s grasp. It all just feels like nothing (that + the Snoke pickle jar, it’s like they wanted it to feel like a joke). All of that just to insert a James Earl Jones cameo. If they’re kept as separate entities, at least they’d each be a separate threat that is dealt with in each movie.

I learned some time ago, with this movie, and all the sequel movies honestly, is to watch them with this viewpoint:

Makes sense when you don’t think about it.

They don’t care about what came before it or use logic, so why should we. Lol.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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While it’s hard to disagree with that sentiment, my fan edits have always involved finessing the details like that to at least allow for plausible headcanon readings. When done well, the “official” answers are not contradicted but a saga-only viewer could infer something more straightforward.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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 (Edited)

For the “Snoke bridged their minds” vs. “They’re a Force Dyad” disconnect, it’s yet another thing that TROS does to try and retcon TLJ. It could be handwaved away by assuming that Snoke was only able to bridge their minds in the first place because they’re a Force Dyad; but I think whichever explanation you prefer ignores the main problem with the reveal: How does Kylo even know about the Dyad? Kylo didn’t “sense” anything about it in TLJ. Palpy doesn’t tell him. He doesn’t discover the secret in this movie. No one has even heard of the concept until Kylo just decides to tell Rey about it, without any context whatsoever.

If we really wanted to tackle this whole “To Dyad or not to Dyad” issue, I think the best solution would be to cut Kylo’s line in the hangar about the Dyad. Then, the Dyad concept becomes a shock reveal at the very end when Palpy learns about it.

Of course, since the whole Hangar scene will have to be overhauled anyway for the eventual Rey Nobody version, it may be more practical to leave it for now and just come back to the issue after V2 is released.

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

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If the Dyad line is being cut from the hangar, might as well try to remove it entirely by also editing out Palps saying it at the end. No matter who says it first, the word initially comes out of nowhere and ultimately means nothing to the audience.

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Brewzter said:

sherlockpotter said:

Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

This is definitely an improvement, I like the inclusion of the medal shot but the colors differing in the original definitely makes it stick out poorly. I’d be interested to see a more blue one like you said.

And regarding why Palpatine was confused by the dyad power if Snoke was on some level a meat puppet, I’ve always just assumed that Snoke was lying about “bridging their minds”. This instantly fixes that issue lol

Snoke wasn’t Palpatine’s VR headset.

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sherlockpotter said:

Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

Another attempt - much stronger blue tones, and it’s a bit brighter to hopefully better match the quality of the lighting in the surrounding footage. Also shifted the color mask over to try to imply directional lighting. Is it too much?

https://streamable.com/v8g9w8

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

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sherlockpotter said:

For the “Snoke bridged their minds” vs. “They’re a Force Dyad” disconnect, it’s yet another thing that TROS does to try and retcon TLJ. It could be handwaved away by assuming that Snoke was only able to bridge their minds in the first place because they’re a Force Dyad; but I think whichever explanation you prefer ignores the main problem with the reveal: How does Kylo even know about the Dyad? Kylo didn’t “sense” anything about it in TLJ. Palpy doesn’t tell him. He doesn’t discover the secret in this movie. No one has even heard of the concept until Kylo just decides to tell Rey about it, without any context whatsoever.

The same reason Leia knew of Padmé. The same reason Palpatine knew Luke, especially as the one who blew up the Death Star, in ESB. The same reason Rey knew how to do the mind trick and telekinesis. The same reason Snoke knew Rey’s name in TLJ. The same reason Luke and Leia knew of Rey’s heritage. Among other things.

The inference (key word, inference) is that the Force itself is what gives you information and knowledge of specific things; it was a passive thing, not an active thing that happens to all Force-sensitives, it doesn’t just give all information to them as if they’re omniscient, it happens every once in a while.

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I have to say, I respect your constant adherence to a Watsonian mindset.

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sherlockpotter said:

sherlockpotter said:

Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

Another attempt - much stronger blue tones, and it’s a bit brighter to hopefully better match the quality of the lighting in the surrounding footage. Also shifted the color mask over to try to imply directional lighting. Is it too much?

https://streamable.com/v8g9w8

Nailed it! That looks great. I’d totally use this in my edit

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Brewzter said:

sherlockpotter said:

sherlockpotter said:

Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

Another attempt - much stronger blue tones, and it’s a bit brighter to hopefully better match the quality of the lighting in the surrounding footage. Also shifted the color mask over to try to imply directional lighting. Is it too much?

https://streamable.com/v8g9w8

Nailed it! That looks great. I’d totally use this in my edit

Is it possible to add rain to the insert shot of the medal? That’s really the only thing which alerts my eye to something being amiss.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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jarbear said:

I learned some time ago, with this movie, and all the sequel movies honestly, is to watch them with this viewpoint:

Makes sense when you don’t think about it.

They don’t care about what came before it or use logic, so why should we. Lol.

I feel TLJ is the opposite: doesn’t make sense unless you think about it. Setting aside their difference in tone and structure I think TFA & TLJ work pretty well as two chapters of the same story, two sides of the same coin. And with Hal’s Restructured & Legendary edits the gap is brought even closer. It’s really made me appreciate the strengths of each movie and the overarching story they tell.

For me TRoS really stands as the black sheep of the trilogy. Though I believe there’s still some good in it, it’s more machine than man, twisted and evil.

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Regarding the medallion shot, I feel like the placement isn’t really the best spot. In the insert shot she is still, but then in the next shot she is already beginning to lay down. I feel like the shot would fit in better if it was placed with the first shot of Leia, where she is sitting still.

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CaptainFaraday said:

Brewzter said:

sherlockpotter said:

sherlockpotter said:

Okay, I took a stab at color correcting the insert shot of Leia holding the medal. It struck me that, given how bright the blueish backlight is in Leia’s Death Chamber™, the dim, golden tone of the medal clip kind of stood out. Bear in mind that I’ve never color-corrected anything before, and my entire experience consists of watching one YouTube video; so if anyone out there knows what they’re doing and wants to offer some feedback, I’d be grateful!

Original (for comparison): https://streamable.com/soz9a7
Color Correction: https://streamable.com/y53j10

I may actually want it to be an even brighter blue. Hmm…

Another attempt - much stronger blue tones, and it’s a bit brighter to hopefully better match the quality of the lighting in the surrounding footage. Also shifted the color mask over to try to imply directional lighting. Is it too much?

https://streamable.com/v8g9w8

Nailed it! That looks great. I’d totally use this in my edit

Is it possible to add rain to the insert shot of the medal? That’s really the only thing which alerts my eye to something being amiss.

If anyone knows where to get a good rain effect that would match style of rainfall in the Leia shots, I could definitely try to add that in. I tried working with a free video that I found, but it didn’t look right.

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

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 (Edited)

Hal 9000 said:

And if it were moved it doesn’t really benefit us. I’ll probably leave it alone.

Please don’t remove it. There are actually a lot of fans who were satisfied by the Snoke revelation (myself included), and it does help cement the idea that the voice Kylo was implied to have heard was not Anakin himself (Kylo hearing Anakin’s voice was a point that was strongly implied in TFA, and something TROS had every right to address), and there will likely be future material that comes out and continues to align with that revelation. You already hurt us PT fans a little bit by cutting out the Plagueis reference, but I can at least live with that as you’re putting other references back into the film to better tighten it up as an end to the 9 film saga.

Just leave the scene alone. The balance you have right now with Palpatine in clone tanks is very good. Save the major retcons for projects like Rey Nobody edits so we at least have a version of the film that (mostly) tells the same story but with notable improvements.

To be clear, nothing says Snoke didn’t still his have own agency. Canon has officially confirmed that he still had autonomy, just that he was tied closely to Palpatine’s larger plans for the Final Order. And the idea of Palpatine and his minions continuing to influence the future Skywalker/Solo bloodline as a way to avenge his previous defeat actually fits the charatcer’s M.O. quite well.

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I’ve been playing a lot of Old Republic stuff lately and it’s struck me how much of TROS seems to have been inspired by elements from it.

There’s a Force bond between two characters in the original game that is very similar to the dyad.

In the second game there’s the threat of the true Sith Empire hiding out in the Unknown Regions.

And in SWTOR there’s this concept called the Voice of the Emperor or Emperor’s Voice:

Through Sith magic and the long-lost technique of transfer essence, the Sith Emperor transferred his consciousness and life force into a host body, allowing him to interact with the world as more than just his true state as a being of pure Force energy. The host’s mind was completely suppressed, crushed beneath the weight of the Emperor’s mind, and their body literally became the Sith’s own. The Emperor utilized many Voices of different species, genders, and ages throughout his lifetime, transferring his consciousness and powers from body to body as his hosts succumbed to the ravaging effects of the dark side.

Which immediately made me think of Snoke.

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My interpretation (with this trilogy of edits) is that the dyad began its inception during the interrogation scene between Kylo and Rey way back in TFA. The seeds were planted there for the dyad.
And then in TLJ, Snoke bridged their minds together so they could now Skype call, which really got the dyad ball rolling. (Not really the smartest plan ever, but hey. Snoke is a fool and thought Kylo would finally try to surpass his grandfather instead of doing the same killing-his-master thing Vader did. It’s fine.) But then they could continue the force Skype calls after Snoke’s direct influence was gone, because the dyad had become that much more powerful and just naturally flowed to take that form of communication. It’s a very Force-ey unexplainable spiritual thing, and I’m fine with it. (Emperor or Snoke didn’t know it could still go on afterwards, maybe?)
And finally, The Emperor wasn’t controlling Snoke’s every move; he just “made” him, as in trained him. And set him up as a figure head in the First Order, as Emperor was trying tirelessly to get a working clone of himself in order. So, he didn’t know what exactly was going on in Rey and Kylo’s heads, other than what Kylo was directly telling the Darth Vader helmet and to Snoke (who, I guess, was relaying it back to Palpy.) The Emperor knew they had a bond, he even says it’s a bond. He’s just surprised that it’s as powerful as it is, sending items back and forth. (He also didn’t know Ben was there in the other part of the building, so that’s also why he was shocked when the Skywalker saber disappeared) He might have only known that Snoke bridged their minds, not that it had materialized into a full blown “unseen for generations” style dyad.

Something like this. I dunno. That might not make sense, or somehow contradict itself somewhere, but hey. It’s what I have to work with to make these movies connect properly.

I’m back and forth on the “every voice inside your head” line. On one hand, I can see how it’s kind of unnecessary to have both “I made Snoke” and “I’ve been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” lines back to back. One or the other is enough. But on the other hand, having both lines there doesn’t really take away anything for me, it’s just more explanation. I don’t mind the fan servicey presentation of it. Maybe, yeah, just remove the Vader breathing perhaps, if anything HAS to be changed there.

Basically, I’d only be upset if both lines are totally removed. I need SOME explanation in the actual film. We need to know that Palpatine “made” Snoke. It is important in trying to make this all makes sense, to directly connect Palpatine to Snoke. Not just the First Order, but to Snoke. At least for me. With the removal of the jar of Snokes in this edit, it leans more towards The Emperor meant he merely propped up Snoke, rather than literally created him, which is what we all want to have happen in Ascendant. But we need some of this dialogue to explain it. It’s messy and a little confusing and maybe still unnecessary to some, but I think it should be there. I’m also open to repurposing the lines for later on in the Vader helmet scene, like has been mentioned. Although, it would be weird to not have the Emperor tell Kylo at the start… but I digress. Either way, the line(s) need to not be completely removed, I feel.

Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!

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The more I think about it, the more I think the film would actually be stronger if it didn’t try to retroactively come up with a backstory for Snoke. Getting rid of the Snoke Clone vat really does go a long way to making the scene more vague and mysterious, and therefore, more palatable than the obtuse “SNOKE WAS A CLONE! SEE??” reveal; but what’s to say that Palpy isn’t just taking over from where Snoke left off? Snoke tried to rule with the First Order. He failed. Now Palpy is swooping in to claim it all for himself. If anything, that makes more sense why Palpy just magically appears with the Final Order fleet. If he was behind Snoke all along, why didn’t he give the First Order the new ships sooner?

Perhaps we could replace the line “I made Snoke. I have been every voice…” with something like “Snoke was weak. I can give you so much more…”

It’s really a matter of whether people want to be told the facts outright, or to maintain a bit of mystery and ambiguity in the story. People who prefer the former, yes, would want to be told, “Palpatine made Snoke. That’s how he connects to the previous two films.” Cut and dried. People who prefer the later wouldn’t care about the semantics and would prefer that the details be left up to interpretation - allowing the film to focus on its own story, rather than fleshing out things in the past that are no longer relevant. Neither perspective is inherently wrong, so I guess it just depends on which side Hal sits.

It reminds me of the recent series of Doctor Who, where they tried to definitively state the Doctor’s backstory. Many viewers, such as myself, think the show is more engaging when the Doctor’s history is more mysterious.

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!