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zombie84

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21-Nov-2005
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12-Jan-2024
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Post
#208329
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208329/action/topic#208329
Time
Oh yeah, now i remember, when i saw the SE when Slave I flies away the music continued all the way back to the Vader duel. Personally i felt the 35 version was way stronger with just silence. We see Leia's face looking at the ship in horror with the muted sounds of laser fire in the background underscoring her defeat. The inclusion of the music in this part was very cacophonous and doesn't mix well with artoos screams and all the blaster fire. To each his own i suppose.
Post
#208279
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208279/action/topic#208279
Time
I think you may be mistaken--the unheard music cues IIRC are not heard in ANY version. They were cut out by Irvin Kershner because he felt they distracted from the tension. The Probot landing, Han's arrival at Echo Base, the AT-AT's approach, Luke's force training, Luke's duel with Vader all were scored with music, whereas in the film they play with just sound and dialog. Much better this way. Building Empire restored some of these to show you what it would have been like with them in it, as the music tracks appears on the 97 SE CD's, although Building Empire forgot to include the terrific bit for the AT-AT's approach.

Unless you are talking about something completely different.
Post
#207690
Topic
In defense of George Lucas!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207690/action/topic#207690
Time
You know I just came to an epiphany today. Star Wars will never stop changing. It hasnt been the same since May 25th 1977.

I know George Lucas likes to tote himself as an experimental filmmaker and if you view his early work that is certainly the case but ever since Star Wars he's deliberately become a mainstream one. But i think Star Wars may be in fact his greatest experiment. Its an experiment in constant revisionism--beginning with a film that stands as one thing and slowly metamorphises until its current version is hardly even recognizable as Star Wars. It will be forever incomplete as long as George Lucas is alive. The day the film opened George Lucas was in the MGM recording studio doing ADR recording with Mark Hamill and mixing an improved mono version--i think this anecdote is indicative of the general style in which Lucas takes to Star Wars. Its always changing and it will never be the same film that was released in May 25 1977, in both superficial cosmetic ways and deeper story and character ways. Darth Vader was not Luke's father, Obi Wan didn't duel Luke's father on a volcano, the Sith were common amongst the Imperial ranks, there were multiple Emperors and Leia was just a dasmel in distress. Then all of this was added. Then it became Episode IV of VI. It was recut. Remixed. Our perspective on characters and story changed with the introductions of sequels, prequels and EU.

And as Lucas said himself, one of the main reasons he went back to do the prequels was because it would alter how we viewed the originals. He doesn't want the films to stay the same. And Star Wars hasn't been Star Wars since May 25th 1977. A person viewing it in May 1977, May 1980, May 1990 and May 2010 would each have an entirely different view of the film.

This is Lucas' experiment, and he's far from finished with it.

In this light i actually think its pretty neat because theres never really been a film that has undergone such a process, especially one with a large fan base--naturally people will cling to a particular version of the ever-changing film, be it a certain sound mix or video edit.
Post
#207648
Topic
Star Wars in High Definition: OT clips from "Science of Star Wars" in HD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207648/action/topic#207648
Time
The format war is pretty much over. HD-DVD was not favoured at all to begin with and they seriously screwed up their release and introduced so many problems into their hardware and software that even those who wanted to give it a chance have basically said "to hell with it." HD video will not catch on with average consumers, DVD will be around for at least five more years if not more, and only the hardcore cinephiles will adopt Blu-Ray.
Post
#207397
Topic
Help: looking for... The Laserdisk Commentary Tracks?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207397/action/topic#207397
Time

Has anyone ripped the commentary tracks that were included in the laserdisks? I’ve been dying to hear them, even if from what ive heard they arent anything special. I know there a few dvds out there that have included them but i havent been able to find them and I really dont want to download or trade away a whole set of disks just for a sub-par commentary tracks. I know someone must have ripped the tracks themselves for preservation.

Post
#207374
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207374/action/topic#207374
Time
The stuff about 1993 came from Jim Ward in the USA Today article. And yeah, the edited text is mysteriously back.

And MeBeJedi i know you yourself werent going around saying "THE DVD IS THE LD" but many others are and you were defending their stance. Its amazing how much people are making out of nothing.

Also, Jim Ward is well-regarded dvd producer and he says himself that he's been waiting a long time to this OOT dvd and that he is pleased to finally bring it--it would be extremely professionally embarassing to simply port the laserdisk transfer.
Post
#207364
Topic
Was the FULL Biggs/Luke Yavin 4 scene in the 77 TE?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207364/action/topic#207364
Time
Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
Is this on the '04 DVD or the SE version? I only have the SE version and I don't remember the line "So you think you'd make a good pilot?" I do remember a "You think you can handle her? -- Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot this side of the galaxy. -- You'll do alright" lines, but I don't remember anyone walking in front of the camera.

But now that I think about it, that dude didn't need much convincing that Luke was a great pilot.


I was paraphrasing his attitude with that "so you think your a pilot eh?" line. Because he's all skeptical of Luke then Biggs basically says "no Luke is good," and all of a sudden Red Leader is like "your right Biggs, Luke will do fine!"

If you watch closely, right after Biggs says "Sir Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim" a man walks in front of them carrying a case of equipment. Its in the 2004 SE. This is extra comped in to hide the cut. The line cut out was about Luke's father where Red Leader says something like "Skywalker, eh? I knew your father when i was a boy, he was a great pilot. If your half as good as him you'll do alright." Only the last half of the last sentence remained. The wipe is pretty seamless but i always noticed that Red Leader abruptly changed his attitude.

Post
#207353
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207353/action/topic#207353
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"The "Hayden replaces Shaw" thing has no comparison to this. Yes, once rumors started leaking there was some reason to wonder--but what rumors have leaked about an LD transfer? None! Its all based off the two "1993" and "less pristine" comments by Jim Ward which have more reaonsable explainations regarding the original cleanup and archiving of the OOT for the special edition."

Specifying a specific year, as well as the technology of that year, is a pretty odd thing to do. Wouldn't you agree?


Not really. Its the year that the OOT was archived and cleaned up. Whats odd is to somehow jump the gun and say its a Laserdisk. Really the problem is that Jim Ward was specific enough to get us guessing but not specific enough to keep us from jumping the gun. He should have said either that it was a Laserdisk transfer or a new print. But UNTIL HE SAYS IT IS A LASERDISK TRANSFER, we must take the lack of Laserdisk speak as meaning that this is not the case. The burden of proof is on you to prove that it is a Laserdisk transfer, and the simple fact that it is from 1993 is not nearly strong enough to make such a wild accusation, especially when you consider that the OOT was archived in 1993, meaning ANY future version would be from the 1993 print. Hence it is EXPECTED that this version be from 1993!

I realise though that the sometimes misleading and contradicting actions of Lucasfilm as of late have caused people to be wary, especially since this all seems too good to be true. And trust me, I'm not 100% trusting of them either. But really, until we have any reason to believe they will be Laserdisk rips we must assume they are not. The fact that it will be from 1993 and less pristine than the 2004 is not only explained by countless other reasons but if you think about it, unless the new dvds are going to be restored by Lowry digital to create a new Internegative, which we have no reason to believe is the case, the OOT would have to be less pristine and from 1993. So this is why is vehemently reject the LD theory.

Post
#207345
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207345/action/topic#207345
Time
The "Hayden replaces Shaw" thing has no comparison to this. Yes, once rumors started leaking there was some reason to wonder--but what rumors have leaked about an LD transfer? None! Its all based off the two "1993" and "less pristine" comments by Jim Ward which have more reaonsable explainations regarding the original cleanup and archiving of the OOT for the special edition.

I'm not saying we definitly WONT get an LD-transfer. I'm also not saying we WONT get a VHS transfer. But what reason is there to believe we will get either one of those? None! Trust me, i am concerned about quality, I work in the motion picture CINEMATOGRAPHY department for gods sake, and if there was reason to believe we are getting an LD transfer i would be dissapointed. But I'm not, because there is nothing to suggest as much.

Literally the LD argument rests solely upon "1993" and "less pristince [than the 2004 dvd]." Which are explained by the fact that the OOT was restored and archived in 1993 and are also obviously not quite as good as the 2004 dvds. Again, even this is still unconfirmed but if you want to try to figure out from the vague statments made what kind of video we will be getting, this is the most rational explaination.
Post
#207334
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207334/action/topic#207334
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

"LASERDISK RIPS? WHERE IS THAT MENTIONED IN THE NEWS RELEASE??"

You mean like the press release that stated Shaw was replaced with Hayden prior to the '04 DVD release? I don't recall seeing that one either.

So because the previous DVD failed to mention Hayden replaced Sebastian shaw that means that we will recieve an LD-transfer?? Where is the logic in that?? If anything we should take that to mean that Hayden will replace Sebastian shaw in this release as well but of course that is just nonsensical assumptions.

"I'll tell you what Ward's comments MOST LIKELY mean."

Interesting. You blast other people's interpretation, and now give your own. Didn't you just say, in the very same post, that "NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE VIDEO WILL BE LIKE!"

The difference is that mine has a logical process to it. You other people are just saying "1993!?! OH NOZ! THAT MEANS LASERDISK!!11!" Again, how does that equal Laserdisk? If they wanted to use Laserdisk it would stand to reason that they would use the THX remasters from 1995. Nothing about "1993=Laserdisk" makes any sense.
And I also reinforced that even my hypothesis is unconfirmed. Notice the giant captial MOST LIKELY. But looking at it logically it is the most logical conclusion to be drawn, but given that nearly everything about the video is unconfirmed this is not definite until we actually find out.

"NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE VIDEO WILL BE LIKE!"


"We got what we wanted, and more i might add"

"NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE VIDEO WILL BE LIKE!"


Uh, i wasnt talking about video quality i was talking about content. We asked for the OOT--we got the freakin O-OOT, the one we NEVER even expected to get on video ever!

There is a great difference between bashing Lucasfilm for giving us LD-transfers and actually logically working through the information and arriving at a temporary hypothesis and when you actually look at it rationally you can see that there is no reason to believe it will be LD-rips. So if its not LD-rips then what is it? Again, using evidence and logic you can reason that the most likely explaination is that it will be a new telecine from the 1993 print.

The 1993=Laserdisk argument is completely idiotic. Because thats all there is to it--there was a Laserdisk released in 1993; therefore the dvd will that. Huh?? Real solid evidence guys.
Post
#207291
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207291/action/topic#207291
Time
okay, ive said it at least twice before but it has gone to no effect i see.

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT VIDEO? NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE VIDEO WILL BE LIKE! LASERDISK RIPS? WHERE IS THAT MENTIONED IN THE NEWS RELEASE??

Seriously. People are talking about LD rips as if it were fact. Was there a second press release i missed??

Jim Ward said the video will be from 1993 and inferior to the Lowry-restored 2004 release. Duh!! How does that translate to "we are taking the Laserdisk masters and putting them on dvd"? Were that the case, would it not make sense to use the 1995 THX release??

I'll tell you what Ward's comments MOST LIKELY mean. When the SE was first being worked on, the first thing they did was return to the original negatives, and it was found that they had deteriorated quite a bit, and so they began restoration work to clean them. When that was done, the newly-cleaned OOT prints were handed to ILM for the CGI additons. What year was this?

1993.

Did i hear complaints about the image quality in theaters in 1997? Hell no. But Ward is correct--they are inferior to the 2004 Lowry-restored prints. There may be a bit of dirt and scatches. But still. It looks good. Had Ward not informed us that the transfer will be from inferior 1993 prints we would have all assumed that we were getting Lowry-restored OOT's that look as good as the 2004, and then we would have seiged Skywalker Ranch in september when we discovered this was not the case.

The Lowry 2004 editions are the SE. They did not even touch the OOT for this--their starting point for the digital restoration was the 1997 SE print with CGI additions. That is why they must use the 1993 OOT master that they made for the original SE.

This is all of course unconfirmed but it is the only logical explaination. Time will tell and until we know more--KNOW ANYTHING, in fact--about the actual video we will have to shut up about. Dolby 2.0? That was what the films were originally released. I for one am pleased that we get this instead of a phony 1990's DD 5.1 mix.

There is so much complaining here about NOTHING that it is making me sick. We got what we wanted, and more i might add--the original theatrical edition of Star Wars has never been available on home video. So what the fuck is everyones goddamn problem?? Yeah, this should have been out years ago, and yeah i dont really want the 2004 disk with this, but so what? I mean thats not a big deal for gods sakes. At with a suggested retail price of $30, meaning it will actually be sold for $20-25 (no one sells for the ACTUAL retail price) I'd consider this the dvd bargain of the year.

Fuck.
Post
#207271
Topic
Was the FULL Biggs/Luke Yavin 4 scene in the 77 TE?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207271/action/topic#207271
Time
There was lines where Red Leader says something like "Skywalker! I knew your father when i was a boy--if you're half as good a pilot as him, you'll do alright."

There is a foreground wipe using an extra to cut this line. Thats why Red Leader goes from "so you think your a pilot, eh?" to "you're gonna make such a good pilot!" in about two seconds.
Post
#206757
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206757/action/topic#206757
Time
Why do people think we are getting LD transfers? Theres no reason to believe that until someone from Lucasfilm states "you are getting the LD transfer", and then the entire DVD community would disown them. Hence, i dont believe we are getting the LD transfers. We are probably getting a new transfer of the original OOT print that was restored in 1993 in preparation for the SE.
Post
#206498
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206498/action/topic#206498
Time
Originally posted by: Tallguy
Ok, Starwars.com has apparently edited thier site. Last night it stated that the "Episode IV" would be gone from Star Wars.

I have no way to prove this of course. (And it's not just wishful thinking. I would have assumed that it would be there.)

Now, will they still have the pretty green Lucasfilm Ltd.?


Yes, it was definitly there last night. Are you saying its gone now??

EDIT: Your right!! It used to say "see Star Wars before it was Episode IV, see the original, if date, motion control work, and yes, see Han shoot first." or something like that. That section has been removed. This doesn't necessarily mean that Episode IV will be in the video though, but it is strange that they would alter the news release like that. Maybe they realised that they shouldnt speak of what is and isnt on it until its finalised?? I dunno but it makes me cautious.
Post
#206442
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206442/action/topic#206442
Time
Okay i have come to the conclusion that the transfer we will be getting is a new scan of the restored non-SE print that was made in 1997 for the special edition.

Here is how it went as far as i know. In 1993 Lucasfilm began preparations for the 20th anniversary and the first thing they did was go back to the original negative. They were horrified to discover it had deteriorated far beyond anyone's expectation and so an exhaustive restoration was undertook. At the same time, Lucas began speculating about redoing special effects, mostly Mos Eisely and the Death Star. The restored negative was finally handed over to ILM where the CGI additions were put in.

Then in 2003 i believe, Lowry Digital began working on the trilogy. Now, i have come to the conclusion that they were working from the negative of the 1997 special edition. Because if they WERENT, if they had a CLEAN un-SE'd version that would mean that ALL of the 1997 SE changes that remained (in other words, 95%) would have to be RE-COMPISITED exactly as they were into the print. I'm 99% sure this didnt happen. They just took the SE, superficially added a few more things like Hayden, redid the one landspeeder shot when entering Mos Eisley and re-comped Jabba. So the Lowry restored version is the SE.

Now, the ORIGINAL original trilogy, unaltered and as it was (probably with the Episode IV crawl) is preserved and cleaned up from the 1997 SE (in 1993). This is probably why Jim Ward says the picture will be from 1993--this was the last and only time the original prints were restored. And like he says, its not as good as the 2004 Lowry restoration--but it was damn close. I mean, you all remember how great it looked in theatres--a scratch here, some grain there but otherwise nice and clean.

So this is why Jim Ward made those infamous comments. Because if he didnt we would all assume its of the same quality as the 2004 Lowry digital edition and when we discovered it was less pristine we would have seiged Skywalker Ranch in anger. So this is preparring us for a still-great but less-than-perfect transfer. The comment about sourcing Lucasfilm archives is probably in reference to obtaining the original crawl element, as well as possibly even implying that the original cleaned-up 1993/1997 print has been stored in the LFL archives since then, since the 2004 used the final SE print as the starting point.

Thats my opinion. I could be wrong but i have a feeling I'm right. I hope i am anyway! So the worst-case scenario that we will just be getting an LD transfer PROBABLY isn't true. I mean i cant think of any reason why my above-hypothesis shouldnt be the case. All the elements are there nice and clean. Lucasfilm is known for their quality, i think its more likely that they would spend a hundred thousand dollars and scan a new high quality telecine of the original restored 1993 print in their archives rather than transfer the noticably-soft LD rip which even casual consumers would realise is poor quality even for an old movie.
Post
#206341
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206341/action/topic#206341
Time
Okay, heres something I've been pondering about the video of this 2006 OOT. At first i thought it might be a dvd transfer of the LD print but then i realised something.

It may be the 97 SE quality print.

Jim Ward said in the USA Today article that it wont be as good as teh 2004 dvd and that it will be from 1993. Well when did work on the original Special Edition commence? 1993. And the first thing they did was preserve and restore the original negative, which they discovered had deteriorated quite a bit. It was washed and clean up of dirt and I believe and new Interpositive and Internegative was made from it, which was then used as the basis for the CGI additions in the SE.

Like Ward said, the 93/97 print is not as good as the 2004 one--theres more dirt and scratches that were digitally erased by Lowry in 2004 because that technology wasnt available when they first made the SE. But the 97 SE still looks fantastic and although it is dirtier than the 2004 release it is still stunning (and the colours are right!).

So dont fret yet. The screenshot of the X-wings on the official site looks damn good to me.
Post
#206138
Topic
ITS HAPPENED-- OOT AVAILABLE FROM LUCASFILM
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206138/action/topic#206138
Time
Originally posted by: darkhelmet
VADER: Do they have OT transfer clearance?

PIETT: It's an older transfer, sir, but it checks out. I was about to clear them.


LMAO!

Here is the USA Today article with a quote from Jim Ward. link

He says its from 1993. So whatever that means. Worst case scenario its a DVD transfer of the master 1993 Laserdisk video, which would be a bit dissapointing but still better than anything we'll ever see otherwise. The screenshots of the x-wings on the official site look very good regardless. Best case scenario its the 1997 SE print which was restored starting in 1993 i believe. Theres too little info on the video still so its hard to judge.
Post
#206087
Topic
Info: The Future of OT Preservation projects <em>(the 2006 DVDs has been announced)</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206087/action/topic#206087
Time

One of my first reactions to the OOT announcement besides utter disbelief followed by a wave of utter happiness was-- “those poor guys at originaltrilogy.com who are working on presevation projects”. i.e. the XO Project. People are starting to say that they are nullified and that this site is obsolete now and that these people slaved so many hours and their work is now wasted.

But maybe not. Early, largely-unfounded reports are saying that maybe this OOT release is made from a different print than the 2004 release and is not as clean, sharp or pristine. Personally i dont see why Lucasfilm cant use the original print that was restored for the 2004 release and simply splice in the original opening crawl. But in the event that they use and entirely different master that is far less preserved than the 2004 SE we will have a need for NEW projects which mesh the new quality from the 2006 OOT with the rest of the 2004 DVD for the non-SE scenes, giving us the best possible presentation. The colour correction is also still an undecided issue. And then there is the audio–will Beru be teh original mono track? Will C-3P0 explain the tractor beam? Will Luke tell Artoo he “was lucky to get out of there?” We’ll have to wait and see just what exactly it is that we get in terms of video and audio.

Plus, there are still many fan-edits to be made and passed around, especially the PT. So hopefully all of our OT-preservation will be rendered obsolete but in the event that Lucasfilm gives us a less than 100% transfer we will still be needed to provide those last few percentages!