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yotsuya

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2-Dec-2008
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16-Nov-2019
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Post
#1305951
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

JawsTDS said:

Finally, some 4K screencaps of THE PHANTOM MENACE, without the HDR grade. Looks super DNR’d, just like the Blu-ray.


Well, you are using one of the broken apps. The colors are all washed out. It looks nothing like that when I stream it through my chromecast. And after watching TMP, I would have to say that it is previous master, not a new one. The scan is identical and still full of all the same flaws.

Post
#1305734
Topic
The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K
Time

Maaga said:

Danfun128 said:

What master does the Disney+ version use? Is it the same as the 2011 master (or the 2011 master but upscaled)? Is it the 2011 master but at higher resolution? Or is it a new master entirely?

2011

Incorrect. It is a new tansfer of ANH, TESB, and ROTJ with different colors and a few differences. The changes cannot come from being recolored as they restore previously missing colors. I think TPM is as well and TFA likely is nearly identical, but unlike the Blu-Ray master (which had burned in English subtitles for all regions and languages) it has a clean image and you can turn the subtitles off. AOTC and ROTS have no color changes (makes sense since the digital file is the original image, not a film scan) and is likely upscaled to 4k.

Post
#1305731
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

From my experience so far with Disney+, you have to be careful how you watch it. I tried 3 ways and got three totally different results. I have a Samsung phone and TV and through both those apps played on that device, the picture is screwed up. The phone is properly saturated but too dark. The TV was desaturated but was the correct lightness. When I stream from my phone to the TV via Chromecast, it was perfect. I tested this with seveal films and it seems to be the 4k content. The older films in HD look the same no matter which way you view them. I contacted Disney+ support and this is a known issue. So be careful how you watch the movies to judge what the colors really are.

Post
#1305378
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Considering how unhappy I’ve always been with the 2003 transfer (and subsequent cleanup), I am loving these. I am positive they are new transfers. ANH now matches color tones with TESB, ROTJ, and TPM instead of being overtly red (aka lobstermen). What leads me to conclude that it must be a new transfer instead of a recoloring is that some of the things are very hard to recolor. This would be easier going back to the negative and rescanning it using better, more modern equipment. They did match the crop of the previous transfer, but the magenta is gone. And this was due to the yellow color being lost more than too much magenta. All the 2003 bright magenta blaster flashes are now peachy like the GOUT and 35 mm versions. The yellow flowers outside the Lars dining room are back (not possible to restore this without rescanning the negative or another copy of the film as they were white - no yellow left). I would not expect to see this good a job unless they redid it. Too many instances of missing colors in the 2003 version. Plus it seems to be a color grade more consistent with the 35mm scans we have been done around here. All four movies do lean too much to the red. The darkness I thought I saw was actually just how the app shows in on my Android phone. When I stream it to my TV it looks really good. Some inconsistencies, but really good compared to what it did look like.

AOTC and ROTS appear to be untouched. I don’t have any 4k equipment to examine how they look in 4k, but the colors appear to be identical so most likely these are just upscaled from the digital masters. But the differences in the other films, even TFA, look to be from a completely different souce from what we had on Blu-ray. The corrections to ANH are incredible and TESB is far less blue in the snow scenes that we have had. I think they missed some of the recoloring Lucas did for the 2003 edition and I don’t want to point it out to them because it looks so much better.

Has anyone purchased the new discs? Is it this version or the previous version? I might have to buy ANH myself to check if no one else does.

Post
#1305369
Topic
<em>The Mandalorian</em> - <em><strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong></em>
Time

Dirge said:

Honestly, as I was watching this first episode, I kept thinking, “This really isn’t very good.” So, hopefully it improves over the next few episodes. It had a couple of decent moments, but I feel those were outnumbered by other scenes that were, let’s just say…lacking.

I think the best part was the introduction of IG-11 (even though they started milking the whole self-destruct joke way too often). Unfortunately, most scenes were merely mediocre, and the episode doesn’t start well with the rather clichéd and poorly done bar fight. Which is then followed by the frankly stupid monster-under-the-ice scene (it’s as if J.J. Abrams was writing this). Also, the numerous references/callbacks to things from the OT started to be a bit ridiculous (Kowakian monkey-lizards on a spit, the gatekeeper droid, handy-dandy carbon-freezing slabs, etc.).

But, since it’s Star Wars, I’ll keep watching and hoping it gets better.

See, the OT references you didn’t like, I loved. I got a good chuckle out of the Kowakian on a spit with another looking on. I questioned the carbon-freezing until I realized that after it worked so well for Fett with Han, that such a process might just catch on in the bounty hunter world. Especially where you can risk dead or alive. I did think the episode was a bit slow, but it fit the story and the characters. And the shootout at the end was great. I thought the story paid off pretty well. As first episodes go, it was very above average. And I loved the beast riding alien that kept saying “I have spoken”.

Post
#1304956
Topic
[Official] All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 4KSE with more changes
Time

CatBus said:

So are we calling this one the 19SE yet? Dibs!

Let’s see, for Star Wars, ignoring some of the subtler differences (the cloudy composite/altered credits/natural home video variance between releases), we’ve got:

1977: original video (mono mix)
1977: original video (stereo mix)
1977: original video (six-channel mix)
1981 (3): “A New Hope” crawl and flyover, same three audio choices (crudely spliced onto 70mm reels, but still different)
1985: new audio mix, 1981 video
1993: new audio mix with alterations, 1981 video
1997SE: altered audio and video
2004SE: altered audio and video
GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio
2011SE: altered audio and video
2019SE: altered audio and video

Star Wars is now weighing in at THIRTEEN distinct versions of the film. And that’s when you exclude the obscure ones!

Don’t forget that the first run had three different FX shots and different end credits. So there are 2 may 1977 versions and 2 or 3 later 1977 versions. And the pre Definitive Collection English video had the same 3 different FX shots with the later end credits and the 1981 crawl. The early releases used the 1977 stereo or mono audio. The 1985 cut used the same hybrid video. So far all the 35 mm prints (chemical and Technicolor) have been from the later 1977 run. Only Puggo and Moth3r’s bootleg have the full original May 1977 edit. The clue to the timing are the foreign language versions with all match the alter 1977 cut and were done at about the same time. And the GOUT is just the Definitive Collection version with the original crawl tacked on… video wise it matches the later 1977 release.

Post
#1304953
Topic
<em>The Mandalorian</em> - <em><strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong></em>
Time

DominicCobb said:

It was alright, short episode so really just a taste. Didn’t feel anything like Star Wars to me but that’s not a bad thing. Stylistically it’s very cool.

It felt very much like some of the better fan productions. It felt nothing like the movies. But definitely felt Star Wars to me. Just not Saga. I very much got the samurai and spaghetti western vibe and Star Wars took so much from that. I just had less of the Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers vibe than Lucas instilled in the Saga.

Post
#1304740
Topic
[Official] All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 4KSE with more changes
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

Some people are saying that the new 4K master has more recomposited matte paintings and such than before, but I can’t confirm that one at the moment. So if that’s the case, it would mean more work for authentic despecializing.

No, just mix in the previous version for those shots. If you are after 4k, your choices are few, but if you are after HD, there is the new one, the BR, the HDTV, and the film scans. The effort Harmy went through for the original despecilized is no longer really necessary (unless you want to make the 97 SE version, and those are coming).

Post
#1304685
Topic
[Official] All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 4KSE with more changes
Time

CatBus said:

Also, I understand this isn’t at the top of everyone’s list, but are there any new subtitle/dubbing languages available? Can someone post a complete list?

I only went into that setting in two movies and I didn’t see anything unusual. Not very many choices. Spanish audio and English, Spanish, and Netherlands subtitles.

Post
#1304635
Topic
[Official] All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 4KSE with more changes
Time

I only spotchecked TPM, TESB and ROTJ. I found that unlike the worldwide DVD and BR releases, TFA does NOT have burned in English subtitles.

ANH is definitely different. With my attempts to correct some of these things, my guess is that this is a genuine 4k scan. It still suffers from being too red (all of them except TLJ do) and too dark, but other than that, Just about every issue with the previous scan (DVD/HDTV/BR) that has pissed me off over the years has been fixed. This release of ANH lifts it to the watchable category for the first time in digital form. So many corrections and I haven’t even really watched the entire thing yet. This gives me a reason to watch the entire saga fresh before TROS.

It also means a new master to use for color correcting. One that won’t require near as much work.

Post
#1304585
Topic
Disney+ streaming platform : <strong>Star Wars content</strong> &amp; various info
Time

I’m watching A New Hope right now. It is NOT the previous transfer. It suffers from some of the same issues but a number of key scenes have been corrected. Just the highlights so far (I’m skipping around to the scenes I know are bad) are the external explosion on the blockade runner is no longer pink, C-3PO is actually gold in every shot as he and R2 walk down the corridor in the blockade runner, the exploding door in the blockade runner is no longer pink, as C-3PO walks through the desert alone, he no longer has green sand behind him and his color is consistent (as it was in all the pre-DVD releases) in the whole scene (that was one of the hardest for me to clean up), when R2 is shot, the smoke around the gun is no longer pink, the sky in the stormtrooper/dewback scene is not longer intense and matches the other shots of Tatooine, The worst single shot of the film (where the sandcrawler door is open and you see R5-D4) now has natural colors rather than the intense reds and greens, there are no purple/pink tones to the droid sale, the yellow flowers are back during the dinner scene, the second sun is no longer intense neon orange, the phantom Luke is gone just before Owen goes looking for Luke and asks Beru, the stupid rocks are still in front of R2, the scene with Ben in the canyon actually has color and depth, the Han Greedo shoothout has been edited again, all the blaster flashes in the blockade runner, the detention cell and the death star escape are no longer pink but back to the more subtile peachy color of the GOUT, Luke and Ben’s sabers are now blue in every shot (no green or purple) and Vader’s is a consistent red (not straying to orange), the Millenium Falcon’s engines glow blue again, the opening scene of reel 6 is no longer overly neon red, the orange flightsuits in the inserted Biggs scene now match the surrounding scenes, the rebel screen table showing the approaching deathstar is no longer the wrong color, the rebel pilots cockpit shots looks more like the GOUT again (not so much variation in colors), the explosions look right again, the death star screen showing the progress toward Yavin is no longer blue, the proton torpedos are no longer pink, Luke’s yellow jacket is more consistent, and the final shot before the iris out is no longer the wrong colors.

This is either a very cleaned up version or it is a completely new scan. My guess is the latter. The colors still lean red, but not as bad and the movie is very dark. That could just be the phone I am watching it on, but I don’t think so. I think this takes the film from an unwatchable mess to watchable but no perfect. The new Greedo bit is annoying and unneeded, but then that is what a lot of the changes have been like. I’m curious if the new disc is this version or just the old one again. This would make me buy the new discs if this is the version on there.

The Force Awakens does not have burned in subtitles for the alien languages.

Post
#1303949
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

I see the Mandelorian as part of their marketing for TROS. I think in the end it will excite people for the franchise. I don’t know if that will work or if it will detract, but it is a streaming service (which also has the previous films for people to binge before TROS comes out) and likely something people will continue for quite a while. TROS will be an event
(getting tickets, going out to see the film, etc.) so I don’t think we can compare how things worked with Solo because several key factors are different.

Post
#1302927
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I also worry that Abrams is going to botch it. My hope is that this ending is similar to the one Lucas wrote in the treatment and with him being consulted on the film, that gives me hope that Abrams won’t ruin it. I think all the problems I have with TFA were all flaws in the editing more than flaws in story structure. He could create the perfect explanation and then leave it out in the final edit. I have hope, but I am cautious because of past experience.

Post
#1301932
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

In my experience with the last two films, the plot leaks are sketchy and incomplete. So I don’t expect this film to be any different. It may be something like the leaks indicate, but there is likely to be a lot that hasn’t been leaked that we don’t know about yet. And that could be the difference from something that sound iffy to something incredible.

Post
#1301818
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I think the trailer may have had things in it that haven’t even been leaked yet. A lot of it seems to flow right along with the leaks, but some seems to hint and things that haven’t been leaked. I’m sure Mike Zeroh will find a way to weave it all together. That will be fun to see. I’m sure he thinks he is being serious, but a lot of his videos are funny.

Post
#1298341
Topic
“The Ride of a Lifetime&quot; - book by Bob Iger. Lucas mention.
Time

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:
But, he sold it outright and put Kennedy in charge so he clearly didn’t want any part of the development process. So it really is his own fault.

That is not true. Iger’s book makes it clear, that Lucas wanted to keep creative control after the sale, but Disney would not give it to him for understandable reasons. The fact that Disney chose to buy his treatments gave him some peace of mind, as he clearly believed, that at least the saga would be continued on the basis of his ideas, but when that didn’t happen, he was obviously very disappointed to the point, that he initially didn’t want to come to the premiere of TFA, and only showed up after Bob Iger convinced him to do so.

Probably the smartest thing Disney did. Better that GL is on the same side as some fans with the ST. And they did use his treatment, but just kept developing until they liked the story. But in one way it really is his own fault. He didn’t have to sell his company.

Post
#1298319
Topic
“The Ride of a Lifetime&quot; - book by Bob Iger. Lucas mention.
Time

Because Luke really isn’t in the film, TFA really seems more like a prologue to the real story than part of the story. It really just introduces us to the new characters and shows us what the old trio is now up to. I would disagree with George because I thought it gave us some very different settings that we hadn’t seen before - in a very OT way. Yes, it starts on a desert planet, but not the same one. That was a friend’s biggest gripe about the PT - Tatooine again (it is in 5 out of the first 6 films). Here we get Jakku, site of an epic battle between the Rebels and the Empire. Then Takodana with Maz’s castle (and a cantina… not like GL didn’t give us one in AOTC). And sure the Resistance base feels a lot like the base on Yavin, but the planet is totally different (no jungle outside). And except for a couple of familiar characters, there isn’t a single familiar alien in the film. So GL was very wrong, because TFA did introduce a lot of new things to the Star Wars universe. But the story leaves a lot to be desired. It is all about the search for Luke - artificially prolonged for the entire film. Sure, Luke was going to steal the spotlight, but not being able to craft a story that can keep the new trio in the forefront really shows the lack of writing skill in the TFA writing team. The movie is a beautiful series of awesome scenes, but it lacks anything other than the search for Luke to hold it together. I think TLJ got in trouble for trying to take that poor start and get the story back on track.

And I think the the things they did change from GL’s original treatment (from what little we’ve heard that is reliable) was for the better. I fear he was revisiting his old scripts again and pulled things in that he had long ago abandoned and that is not a good thing to do for the big finale. I do hope that his concept for whatever force conflict IX was supposed to end with is close to what they are doing for TROS. But I think ultimately that this trilogy is the better for not following his treatment slavishly. They did admit that they treated it like any project and took the treatment and developed it from there. And if you look at GL’s own original treatment for Star Wars, the final film is much much different while still having a lot of similarities. The treatment to film process takes a good idea and makes it great. I just feel that TFA was derailed by the feelings of Luke coming on screen and taking over the story and their attempts to fix that. GL wasn’t in on that process so of course he was upset at the changes. I bet if he had been given the chance to go through their various drafts and see the story development that he would have been more accepting of the changes. But, he sold it outright and put Kennedy in charge so he clearly didn’t want any part of the development process. So it really is his own fault.

Post
#1297313
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

Creox said:

yotsuya said:

Broom Kid said:

20th Century Fox paid for the Special Editions, yes. It was on their dime, and I believe it was initially their idea, too. Lucas ended up negotiating with them further, and used the money they’d initially earmarked for a 20th anniversary restoration and re-release of Star Wars to be a “Special Edition” trilogy project (I believe they got Fox to increase the budget at that point as well) but the story of the Special Edition starts with 20th Century Fox approaching Lucas about getting the original film back in theaters as an event, and Lucas then using his leverage to fix things he wanted to fix then, and add things he couldn’t have added, especially since Fox agreed to pay for it.

Now the quality of the “fixes” can be debated, and have been for over 20 years now, I’m not going to argue that the execution was successful. But the intent of the Special Editions was definitely different than the intent behind the DVD release, and the later blu-ray release. The Special Editions were initially begun with a bigger idea of “fixing” the movies so that they looked and felt more like he wanted them to back then. The DVD and Blu-Ray additions - not paid for by Fox - were undertaken more along the idea of “this seems cool, put it in there.”

Director tinkering is the best description for all three edit passes. It was the same thought process and the same type of changes. Only TESB had some real technical fixes (recompositing the snow effects shots). The rest were outright changes to the entire frame or recompositing new effects over existing footage. There really isn’t much different between changing the door in the 2011 version of ROTJ and changing the sandcrawler in the 1997 SE. Who was paying for it is irrelevant to the nature of the changes. It was all GL tinkering with his films to “improve them”.

Yeah, I agree with your last sentence though I can see where GL was going with some of his edits. He wanted to bring the OT more in line graphically with the PT. Where I find his edits really annoying is when he changed key aspects of the plot or adding FX for no obvious reason.

That would be about half of them.