xhonzi

darth_ender said:

Many of your points are valid.  I don't know that I'll have a response for everything, and I do not presume that all my responses will sufficiently rebut your critiques, nor that the story conveyed the point well enough on screen.  However, some of it may stick, and you may enjoy the film better in future viewings.

<BIG SNIP>

Thanks, Ender, for the thoughtful reply. 

But it looks like you agreed with 18 of my points and offered a soft rebuttal on 2 of them.  Was this your intention?

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

I'm still not sure what time period you're suggesting here.  It was an island full of 8 million people.  How much food do you think was there, and how long are you suggesting it would last? 

longer than 2-3 days, that's for sure.  

I give up.  Can you narrow it down for me?  All I've got is "longer than 2-3 days" (that's for sure!).  Care to take a guess? 

My whole point was this: 

xhonzi said: so food supplies on the island would be gone within 2-3 days. 

is incorrect.  the food would last longer than 2-3 days.   

 IT'S A MAD HOUSE!!!  A MAD HOUSE!!!

DominicCobb said:

Well, yeah, maybe he should have used a gun if he couldn't defeat Bane, but... you know... he did.

You must not have watched the same movie I watched.  In your version, did Batman not have his back broken and get sent to a hell-hole for 5 months during the which countless people were killed and/or terrorized?  And then, at the end of their later fight, Bane distracts Batman long enough for Talia to slip a knife betwixt his ribs and only due to the long odds of Catwoman actually coming back AND SHOOTING him (with guns) is Bane defeated?

 

You misunderstand me, which is somewhat my fault. For obvious reasons he didn't use a gun the first time he went up against Bane. Then, yes, Bane broke him. So if Batman didn't think he could, when he came back, defeat Bane, then, yes, it would be selfish for him not to use a gun. But, as you can see from their final fight, Batman knew he could defeat Bane, and he did. Bane was broken, the pain was taking over because Batman messed up his mask. Bane was only able to get up to kill Batman afterwards because Talia fixed his mask. So why use a gun? Also, Bane did not distract him, Batman just wanted to let him see his plan fail, and Batman was banking on the fact that Miranda was on his side. Unbeknownst to Batman, Miranda was actually Talia, and behind the whole operation. This false trust was where he got screwed. If he brought a gun and shot Bane, yes, Bane would be dead, but that wouldn't stop Talia from stabbing him.

Let me see if I'm following: Batman thinks he can take Bane without a gun.  He can't.  Back is broken, people suffer and die.  Batman trains, this time thinks he can take Bane without a gun.  He gets Bane on the ropes, but he tags Talia in... so he still can't defeat Bane.  A bomb is about to go off and kill 8 million people.

Do I have it right?

Whatever happened to the word: Annual? 

I hear "yearly" all of the time which just sounds... dumb.

darth_ender said:

xhonzi said:

In any case, it doesn't really matter how long it takes for them to be out of food... they would be out of food in short order.  The movie shows supply trucks showing up... but I can't begin to imagine it being anywhere near efficient enough that very many people are alive at the end of the 5 months.

There is food inside many people's houses, there food in all the restaurants in the city, there is food in all the supermarkets and convenience stores in the city and whatnot.   It one conserved properly, it could last awhile.  

I'm still not sure what time period you're suggesting here.  It was an island full of 8 million people.  How much food do you think was there, and how long are you suggesting it would last?  And why do you think people would conserve it properly?  Everyone was in a state of panic and disorder.  If you think there's more than a half week's worth of food at the supermarket at any given time, I think you have a critical misunderstanding of how much people eat.

I was saving this for my big rebuttal, but I'll just say it now...didn't they emphasize that a system of shipping supplies and food into the city from the outside world was developed when discussing the random person with the bomb trigger?  It seems I remember them saying something about no outside influence except shipment somewhere

I can't begin to imagine it being anywhere near efficient enough that very many people are alive at the end of the 5 months.

DominicCobb said:

Even so, my complaint is that in a situation like this, not using a gun is ridiculously selfish and risky and stupid.  Period end of sentence!

Well, yeah, maybe he should have used a gun if he couldn't defeat Bane, but... you know... he did.

You must not have watched the same movie I watched.  In your version, did Batman not have his back broken and get sent to a hell-hole for 5 months during the which countless people were killed and/or terrorized?  And then, at the end of their later fight, Bane distracts Batman long enough for Talia to slip a knife betwixt his ribs and only due to the long odds of Catwoman actually coming back AND SHOOTING him (with guns) is Bane defeated?

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

Ransacking the place and taking everything you can carry is what you do when a maniac bombs the bridges and you want to try to take care of your family. 

what good would ransacking the place and taking everything with you do?  with the bridges out and the maniac threatening to blow the city up if anyone tries to leave,  where are you going to go?

Back to your home.  With food for your family. 

and what would you do once you got home with the food and you know the food supply is limited?   You'd ration the food that you have, to make it last as long as possible.

Hmm... I guess you're right.  Maybe I should have said that when I said:  

Warbler didn't quote it, but xhonzi said:

Rationing is what you do when you're at home with people you love. 

I'm not sure if we're disagreeing here.  I said people would loot the stores, take it home and ration it with their families.  Therfore, other people, who missed the looting, would starve to death.  Are we disagreeing here?  Because you're really just quoting me back to me.

xhonzi said:

xhonzi said:

In any case, it doesn't really matter how long it takes for them to be out of food... they would be out of food in short order.  The movie shows supply trucks showing up... but I can't begin to imagine it being anywhere near efficient enough that very many people are alive at the end of the 5 months.

There is food inside many people's houses, there food in all the restaurants in the city, there is food in all the supermarkets and convenience stores in the city and whatnot.   It one conserved properly, it could last awhile.  

I'm still not sure what time period you're suggesting here.  It was an island full of 8 million people.  How much food do you think was there, and how long are you suggesting it would last? 

longer than 2-3 days, that's for sure.  

I give up.  Can you narrow it down for me?  All I've got is "longer than 2-3 days" (that's for sure!).  Care to take a guess?  Can you at least confirm whether you think it would last 5 months?  I will readily agree that some people could be eating well for a while.  But the general populace is going to be out of food extremely quickly.  I'm not sure where you're getting your data of how much food would be on the island of Gotham, maybe it's a comic book, but I'm basing my numbers off of the real world.

Again, unless you think it's 5 months, I'm not sure why we're having this conversation.  Perhaps you do think it's 5 months.  I have no idea what you think, other than you like to argue.

Warbler:

again, would people in this situation be eating as much as they normally eat? 

That's my whole point, Warbler.  I think most people won't be eating anything.  Except for shoe leather.  And delicious PanakacakesTM.

Ender- your list compared to my list brings out a good point.  You are absolutelty right about (most of) the things on your list, yet it doesn't stop my enjoyment of Batman Begins.  Most of you must think I'm right with my list, as only 5 of my 30 points were rebutted (ostensibly).

Please allow me to make this comparison: All video games are infinitely repetitive.  You push a joystick- you press a button.  Repeat.  When someone says "That game was too repetitive!", it's utter nonsense because all games are repetitive.  A terrible game is not any more repetitive than a great one.  But when someone says something like that, what they're really saying is: "I wasn't sufficiently distracted by story, viscerals, gameplay mechanics, flow, fun, etc. to not realize that all I was doing was pushing a joystick and pressing a button."  All a great novel is is really just a string of words.  But if, when reading a novel, you are caused to stop and look at the words, it means 1. something is very wrong with the words to cause them to fail to convey something greater or 2. something is wrong with the metastructure and it doesn't sufficiently merit attention away from the carrier signal.

Batman Begins works for me because whilst I can recognize the errors in logic, none of that is on my mind when I'm actually watching it.  For many of you, The Dark Knight Rises similarly works.  For me it did not.  The list I compiled are not things that I thought about later, but are things that were constantly pulling me out of the narrative.  Things that made me stop reading the novel, and look at the words, as it were.  Things that made me facepalm or laugh out loud right in the middle of a scene where I should have been cheering it on, or gripping the edge of my seat. 

I think the problem could have been solved in one of two ways: 1. Had the good parts been better,  I would have been less likely to notice the bad parts.  or 2. Fewer/less stupid bad parts.  I don't care how good the good parts are, some of that stuff will yank you out of the movie faster than you can nuke a fridge.

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

Ransacking the place and taking everything you can carry is what you do when a maniac bombs the bridges and you want to try to take care of your family. 

what good would ransacking the place and taking everything with you do?  with the bridges out and the maniac threatening to blow the city up if anyone tries to leave,  where are you going to go?

Back to your home.  With food for your family.  I wasn't suggesting people would leave Gotham... just that restaurants, convenience stores and super markets (if they had them) would be empty pretty quickly.  You remember Katrina?  People were taking electronics, let alone food.

xhonzi said:

In any case, it doesn't really matter how long it takes for them to be out of food... they would be out of food in short order.  The movie shows supply trucks showing up... but I can't begin to imagine it being anywhere near efficient enough that very many people are alive at the end of the 5 months.

There is food inside many people's houses, there food in all the restaurants in the city, there is food in all the supermarkets and convenience stores in the city and whatnot.   It one conserved properly, it could last awhile.  

I'm still not sure what time period you're suggesting here.  It was an island full of 8 million people.  How much food do you think was there, and how long are you suggesting it would last?  And why do you think people would conserve it properly?  Everyone was in a state of panic and disorder.  If you think there's more than a half week's worth of food at the supermarket at any given time, I think you have a critical misunderstanding of how much people eat.

xhonzi said:

19. Two minutes until a nuke goes off in downtown Gotham, but Batman stops to makeout with Catwoman, and then give a cryptic hint to Gordon about his real identity (does he think he's the Riddler?).  Really?  Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!

Just in case my subtlety was lost on anyone.

Tobar said: 

2. How cowardly/stupid the physicist must have been to willingly go along with the plot, knowing that they would kill him.  If he was trying to preserve his own life, he only deferred his execution.  Way to go bud, not only do you die but your actions ensure that you take 8 million of your closest friends with you

During the arena sequence Bane makes it clear that they have his family and that if he doesn't deliver they will kill them.

I must have missed that.  I think I understood about 90% of Bane's dialogue, but there were a few things that slipped past me.  Still... what a coward.

23. I agree with Gaffer that the OWS/99% thing was laid on too thick.  Dude, I got it.

 Source

I read that earlier and think they are mostly being truthful.  I don't think the OWS movement occurred and they thought "let's put this in a movie!".  But it was certainly in full swing when they were shooting/cutting the movie.  My concern isn't even that it's in the movie, just that I thought it was poorly handled.

27. Why was this even a Batman movie?  He's hardly in it.  It's more about Bane and John Blake.  Why not just make that movie.  It's almost like Nolan made a Batman movie under duress.  He was contractually obligated to put Batman in at least 15% of the movie, so he did... but that didn't stop him from making 3 or 4 other characters be more interesting and have more screen time.

Do you think Batman was in more of The Dark Knight than he was in this? That film was completely the Joker's show. This film was about Bruce's journey. Besides they established early on that his body is completely wrecked. Sure he could temporarily compensate with those bracers but there's no way he could sustain that indefinitely.

I don't think Batman was in TDK enough either, but Bruce started the movie being Batman, was Batman the entire movie, and was Batman at the end.  TDKR has very little Batman (less than TDK, I'm guessing) and not much more Bruce.

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

13. I know Batman hates guns.  But how many innocent lives is he willing to spend to keep this ideal?  He fights Bane mano-e-mano and almost loses (twice!) when a well placed bullet to the head could have ended things pretty quickly.  8 million lives are on the line, but Batman still refuses to use a gun.  [JohnAdams]Incredible.[/JohnAdams]  Henry Jones, Jr. could have ended that fight a lot sooner and wouldn’t have put so many innocent lives on the line.

get this through you your head, Batman doesn't use guns and he doesn't kill. That is part of his character.   His parents were killed with a gun.  Batman fans would have been outraged if Nolan decided to have Batman use a gun to kill Bane. 

Get this through your head: I know Batman doesn't use guns or kill... except for... you know... when he does. 

Even so, my complaint is that in a situation like this, not using a gun is ridiculously selfish and risky and stupid.  Period end of sentence!

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

10. How did the occupation work, exactly?  Did people still go to work?  I don’t think there are any farms in Gotham, so food supplies on the island would be gone within 2-3 days. 

I think the food supply would last longer than that, especially if people rationed what they ate. 

How much longer?  Like, 4 days?  Or 5 months?  Rationing is what you do when you're at home with people you love.  Ransacking the place and taking everything you can carry is what you do when a maniac bombs the bridges and you want to try to take care of your family. 

In any case, it doesn't really matter how long it takes for them to be out of food... they would be out of food in short order.  The movie shows supply trucks showing up... but I can't begin to imagine it being anywhere near efficient enough that very many people are alive at the end of the 5 months.

xhonzi said:

16. Bruce is still broken up about Rachel 8 years later?  Truth be told, I think Harvey in TDK acts a little too over the top at her passing.  Maybe my wife of 10 years, but not a girl I had been dating long enough to be quasi-engaged.  Rachel must be some girl that both Harvey and Bruce can't live without her.

heartbreak can do a number on you.

Tell me more, Warbler.

30. When the wall of cops run at the mob of thugs, who spray bullets at the wall o' cops, and none of the cops get shot until they can see the whites of their eyes.  Those cops were pretty much shoulder to shoulder.  Every bullet fired in their general direction would have killed somebody. 

Oh, I forgot one more- 29. When Selina corners Daggett and asks for the Clean Slate I was thinking, Gosh, I sure hope they tell me what the clean slate is in a totally natural, non-groan-inducing-expository way.  And man, did it deliver!

I didn’t hate this movie, but I certainly am having a hard time saying I liked it.

It’s a lot like Prometheus where anything good is pulled down by all of the bad... but in this case I don’t think the good is as good.

A lot of it came down to the accumulation of little things which all added up to a big negative:

1. The plane hijacking was cool.  But the CIA guy was really dumb and incompetent to be taken in that way.  Also, whoever investigated the crash...  The wings and tail were pulled off but the plane didn’t crash for another couple of miles?  And a guy (still in a body bag?  I don’t remember) whose bloodtype (some of it, anyways) matches a wanted physicis must be the physicist in a plane crash that doesn’t look accidental and probably wasnt’?  And no one looks into this?

2. How cowardly/stupid the physicist must have been to willingly go along with the plot, knowing that they would kill him.  If he was trying to preserve his own life, he only deferred his execution.  Way to go bud, not only do you die but your actions ensure that you take 8 million of your closest friends with you.

3. Let’s talk about the reactor/bomb some more.  So, without the core, it will become unstable to the point that it will explode.  I’m not a nuclear physicist (but I did stay in a Holiday express last night) but wouldn’t an instability make it more and more likely everyday that it will go off, but with no degree of certainty when that will be?  Isn’t that the definition of instability?  Is it like a non-licensed electrician putting some faulty wiring in my house that will, without a doubt, someday, given enough time, burn my house down... and then putting a digital countdown timer to the exact second that it will light up?  I think a 5 month calculation is fine, but I think you would have a margin of error of no less than a month.  Certainly not down to the second.  And when you’re getting close to that margin, I think driving it around on a truck would probably be the last thing you’d want to do with it.  Strike that... the last thing you’d want to do is detonate an explosive right next to said truck, causing it to violently vere into the railing and drop 30 feet to the street below... with the police commissioner in the trunk with it.

4. Did Talia still have the clicker?  Did Batman tape the jammer to the bomb when he flew off with it?  I hope against the former, but in its event I hope in favor of the latter.

5. What is Talia’s motivation exactly?  She is trying to fulfill her father’s mission or not?  Is Gotham still the festering cesspool that concerned the league of shadows?  Didn’t Batman/Dent/Gordon clean it up almost completely?  Did Talia want revenge on her father’s killer?  She said that was just a bonus.  Was she concerned about the organized crime and corrupt cops?  Or capitalism run wild?

6. I thought Bane was really interesting and scary until Talia appeared holding his leash.  This turned him into a petty thug in my mind.

7. How did the Daggett/Bane/Talia thing work anyways.  Before the ending, I thought Daggett hired Bane because he was a skilled mercenary, didn’t realize he bit off more than he could chew... and actually thought that Bane would just disappear once the job was done.  However Bane saw an opportunity and didn’t want to let it go, so he took advantage of it.  Once we learn that Bane and Talia have been working together all along... where does Daggett come in?  Did Talia manipulate Daggett to do what he did?  How did she put Bane in contact with Daggett?  Outwardly Talia and Daggett appear to be bitter rivals. Was this simply a show?

8. If Talia/Bane knew the bomb was going to go off, and this was allegedly what they wanted all along, why give Batman, the cops the chance to stop it?  Just click the Button as soon as Batman shows up/the cops riot and make sure your 5 month siege ends with an earth-shattering-kaboom even if it is 10 hours premature.

9. Batman hid “The Bat” on top of a skyscraper with a camo net for six months?

10. How did the occupation work, exactly?  Did people still go to work?  I don’t think there are any farms in Gotham, so food supplies on the island would be gone within 2-3 days.  I saw trucks taking GD Twinkies and pop-tarts to a convenience store... how could a couple hundred thugs manage the herculean effort of feeding 8 million Gothamites everyday.  I didn’t see a lot of people in the streets... how were people getting food?  How could a single organization provide for that many shut ins?  This is something that takes a million people to do, each pursuing their own employment, all day everyday to do, and that’s when people come into their shops with money and trucks bring whatever the people want to buy?

11. John Blake figured Bruce was Batman because he was faking being happy?  I think that’s a bridge too far.  I think you could fix this with. Blake: All of the orphans idolized you.  The Billionaire orphan!  We’d come up with elaborate fantasies about you.  And what could be better than a billionaire orphan playboy, than a billionaire orphan playboy who was also the Batman?  It was ridiculous to be sure, but then it started to make sense.  Bruce Wayne came to Gotham the same time Batman did.  Batman went into hiding the same time Bruce Wayne became a recluse.  Of course, I wasn’t totally sure, until you let me in today.

12. “Did you come back to die with your city?” “No!  I came back... to stop... you!”  Really?

13. I know Batman hates guns.  But how many innocent lives is he willing to spend to keep this ideal?  He fights Bane mano-e-mano and almost loses (twice!) when a well placed bullet to the head could have ended things pretty quickly.  8 million lives are on the line, but Batman still refuses to use a gun.  [JohnAdams]Incredible.[/JohnAdams]  Henry Jones, Jr. could have ended that fight a lot sooner and wouldn’t have put so many innocent lives on the line.

14. Blake, a trained cop, uses his gun once, looks at it in disgust and then throws it away?  I know killing a perp can be very difficult for the most seasoned officers to cope with... but this seemed like a cheap moment to try to make Blake seem like the perfect Batman replacement.

15. I have to agree with Warb- Batman seems to trust Selina much more than he should/would.  She was directly responsible, several times over, for what was going on.  Once she and Batman established some kind of working relationship, she betrayed him and caused the people of Gotham to suffer for 5 months.  If she had a change of heart, she should have had to work much harder to earn Batman's trust back.  She should have been trying to convince him... not he her.

16. Bruce is still broken up about Rachel 8 years later?  Truth be told, I think Harvey in TDK acts a little too over the top at her passing.  Maybe my wife of 10 years, but not a girl I had been dating long enough to be quasi-engaged.  Rachel must be some girl that both Harvey and Bruce can't live without her.

17. But then he sleeps with Talia.

18. Why did Bane totally wreck Batman when they first fight, but Batman can easily take him on after a couple months of recovering from a broken back?  Was he in better fighting shape after being in the jail.

19. Two minutes until a nuke goes off in downtown Gotham, but Batman stops to makeout with Catwoman, and then give a cryptic hint to Gordon about his real identity (does he think he's the Riddler?).  Really?  Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!

20. Gordon says "Bruce wayne?!?" to make sure that no one in the audience is thinking, "What is that Bat-Man talking about?!?" after the clue and the flashback.  Maybe test audiences still didn't know Bruce's secret identity until they added this clever bit of exposition in.

21. Not that Bruce seemed very concerned about hiding his secret identity in this movie.  Again, Bruce and Batman return to the scene on the same day.  He shaves the beard and loses the cane (wouldn't these have been good disguises) and expects no one (except John Blake, whose expertly honed orphan skills can't be fooled!) to figure out he's Batman?

22. Wayne Manor was rebuilt and already looked 100 years old and somehow they got the exact same Bed?  Hmm... smells more like they just returned to location.

23. I agree with Gaffer that the OWS/99% thing was laid on too thick.  Dude, I got it.

24. For the first time, the Batman growl-voice annoyed me.  Perhaps everything else above had suspended my suspension of disbelief...  Perhaps I have heard too many spoofs of the voice... that Bale's voice sounded a lot like in this movie.

25. Batman's first night back in Gotham- he has about 20 hours to stop the bomb from killing everyone- and he spends the entire night rigging skyscraper windows and the bridge supports to burn a Bat signal when he pushes a button?  Was that really the best use of his time?  How many people (besides Bane) even saw them?  I heard the Bale voice spoof growling- "Look!  I... spent all night... rigging those fires... because fires are cool... bats are cool... bats on fire are super cool... except that they're hot... because they're on... fire."

26. I thought the ending was a total cheat.  I am so sick of fake deaths in films, and superhero films are some of the worst.  I thought Nolan might have been above it.  Guess not.

27. Why was this even a Batman movie?  He's hardly in it.  It's more about Bane and John Blake.  Why not just make that movie.  It's almost like Nolan made a Batman movie under duress.  He was contractually obligated to put Batman in at least 15% of the movie, so he did... but that didn't stop him from making 3 or 4 other characters be more interesting and have more screen time.

28.  WaitforthetwisthereitcomesJohnBlake'sfullnameiswaitforitwaitforitwaitforROBINJohnBlake
holycarpyoudidn'tseethatonecomingisn'tthatawesomewetotallyfooledyouandwe'reawesome
becausehisfirstnameisfrinkinROBINhowawesomeisthatitissoawesomeIbetyoycan'tbelievehowawesomeitis

And this is probably the final kicker for me:  Bruce was Batman for how long before the end of TDK?  2 years?  Can it be that long?  Could it be as short as a couple of months?  And then he goes into 8 years of retirement.  He reappears for a couple of nights and then disappears for 5 months... and is back for one more day before he's "dead" again.   There’s no room for any more Batman stories.  No other villains.  Nothing.  I understand that Nolan and company wanted to tell the end of the Batman story

What?!?!  All of those zombie brains we've been collecting have been for naught!?!  We just finished the Zombie Island of Dr. Ned, and then found TK's shack!?!  And now we have to collect 400-some-odd brains, after we finished the expansion!?!?

C3PX Ben, why didn't you tell me?

And I'll go from 5 to 1. :(

It was one "story glitch" I didn't mind. I have no idea what fancy surgeries that machine offered. Who knows how bad off she was?

Now, the fact that no one seemed to notice or care? That really bugged me.

Yeah, I vote that Akwat just reads the whole thing!

If you haven't listened to it, then get access to the directory and go do it.

Hopefully a few more examples will be up soon. I'll try to record mine this weekend. (famous last words)

Zombie- when do you think you'll be done with revisions enough that we would be able to use those for recordings?

005- when do think you'll man up and buy a copy of the book?

I thought Jorus would be a good guy, to make it even more surprising when Joruus turns out to be a total loon.

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:
Mrs. xhonzi enjoyed the Zombie one... if that means anything to Mrs. Frink. 

It won't, she's allergic to anything starting with "z."

I don't know if I should have just posted in one of the other "I'm Outta Here!" threads, but this is at least slightly different.

I gave 2 weeks notice at my office (of 9 years) today, and will be starting a new job mid-next month. I'm making a pledge to cut my time here during business hours, over the next 2 weeks so I can wrap up some projects at my current job. And after 2 weeks so I can focus on being the new guy, which I'm not sure how good I'll be at that.

So I might lurk, I might post when I can't help myself, but hopefully you'll notice* my absense starting now.

Oh, and I'm leaving you in charge.

Good bye!


*Of course you'll notice... It's not like I'm TheBoost or anything.

I accpeted your apology.





But, it won't get me a John Carter sequel.

CP3S said:

xhonzi said:

My level of Tolkien interest is too low for other fans to consider me one of them, and too high for norms to consider me one of them.

As mish, as peshkë, I guess.

You and I kind of have our own code language on this forum, but we never use it. ;) Nice to see you throw out a phrase.

CP3S said:

xhonzi said:
Have you ever read the Wheel of Time? When I worked at Barnes and Noble, some employees only read fiction, some only read history, and others only read home and gardening... but everyone (myself excluded) read Wheel of Time. Since my job was on the line, I picked it up and really enjoyed the heck out it. There were 8 books at the time, and I think they're up to 14 with the 15th and "final" book out early next year.

The first fantasy book I ever tried to tackle beyond C. S. Lewis and Tolkien was the first Wheel of Time book (Eye of the World, right?) Bored the crap out of me. 

Johnny Ringo said:

Went to download Dawnguard [skyrim DLC] last night only to find myself a few MS points shy of the asking price [1600] So I might grab some points after work today. The nearest store that has them is about a half hour drive from here but I need to head that way anyhow..

 

Yep... there goes that idea.

evan1975 said:

I was talking to an acquaintance the other day and he started telling me about Lucas leaving Lucasfilm, which I already knew thanks to you fine folk.

But in his version of the story, George was humbled by the failure of TPM3D and decided he'd had enough of Star Wars.  Has anyone heard this, or is this just conjecture?

Gaffer Tape said:

Oh, yeah, when Zombie asks, it's all sunshine and butterflies, but when I do it, it's all moonshine and scorpions!

doubleofive said:

greenpenguino said:

I don't get why this wasn't called 'John Carter of Mars' anyways, stupid disney.

After watching the movie, I understand. It wasn't about him being "of Mars", it was about him becoming it. The title screen at the beginning which mirrored the one at the end showed that. I actually appreciated it after that.

And apparently all of the marketing, including the name change, was done by the director, Andrew Stanton, not Disney.