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xhonzi

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Join date
30-Oct-2005
Last activity
13-Oct-2020
Posts
6,428

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Post
#303524
Topic
Religion
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX<br

Some people maybe thinking, "But Paul is clearly a misogynist himself" well, that is not necessarily true. One major example of Paul's misogyny is in 1 Corinthians when he says women must remain silent in the assembly (Church). So women are ineqal and not allowed to speak while men can? ....


This is the only Biblical referrence I could think of when the OP started the thread. I've never heard an explanation for it quite like yours, C3PX, so thanks.

I think modern interpretations of the Bible that are used to support ideas like that are just as misguided as Hitler's attempt to justify his persecution of the Jews a few decades ago. As someone said earlier, religion and religious works are often used to support pre-existing ideas. It's a tale as old as time.

xhonzi
Post
#302296
Topic
Fall to the Dark Side?
Time
I guess I never thought Luke was wholly turned to the Dark Side in Dark Empire; I thought it was always an act. I think that was the case for Ulic from Tales of the Jedi until it one day ceased to be an act and was then reality. But Luke to me never seemed in any danger. Maybe, as someone else said, it was because it happened off page.

xhonzi
Post
#302213
Topic
Fall to the Dark Side?
Time
when thinking about this topic, I actually went back and reread all of the Tales of the Jedi comics in search of a better tale of falling to the Dark Side. And why I'll admint Exar Kun and Ulic Qel'Droma are better versions of this than the PT Anakin, I was still looking for something more and something deeper.

I have also thought of the Dark Side like a drug. Maybe not instantly addiciting as was mentioned above, but definately something that the user would crave and go through withdrawals if not used for a time. I always liked the term "seductive" in connection with the Dark Side. So, I was trying to find literary examples. I know some Shakespeare and was trying to think through the tradgedies but couldn't come up with any characters that I thought were a good analogy.

Then I tried to think of any of the mythologies I know and again was coming up a little blank.

In Plato's Republic, Socrates explains how a man goes from being a hero of the people to a tyrant. That was actually pretty interesting.

xhonzi
Post
#302056
Topic
Fall to the Dark Side?
Time
So... in pondering how poorly and unconvincingly the Prequel Trilogy handled Anakin's "Fall to the Dark Side," it got me thinking: What stories have convincing depictions of a character's fall to a dark side of sorts? I quickly thought of 2:

1) Luke in RotJ (for all of 5 minutes) as he destroys Vader with the Dark Side

2) Lex Luthor in Smallville. Others may not agree, but he's been our favourite character on the show (early seasons, at least) and we really enjoyed seeing the seeds of his future dark side being sown. At some point it seems that he became the typical villain, but up until then he was really interesting.

Who/What else?

xhonzi
Post
#301213
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Time
I remembered one more:

C-3PO and R2-D2 would be the only characters to appear in all 9 films. (With the six we have, this isn't true because Anakin/Vader & Obi-Wan (if ghosts count) are also in all 6)

Zombie, regarding the mandalorians... I don't know where this came from originally, but I know I've seen it several places.

Bill Slavicsek's Second Edition of the Guide to the Star Wars Universe says:

Mandalore Warriors
The Mandalore Warriors were defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars [ESB]

That must be from the Glut novelization.

Page 88 of "The Star Wars Trilogy Sourcebook" (West End Games) says about Boba Fett:
"...armored suit similar to those favoured by a group of warriors from the Mandalore system who were defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars."
Page 140 of the Star Wars Sourcebook 2nd Edition has the same thing word for word.

'The Bpfassh' entry in the Guide mentions some Clone Wars history (involving the Dagobah (the cave, methinks)) but I think that's mostly from Heir to the Empire.

Speaking of which... we need another thread entitled: How did Tim Zahn envision the Prequels/Clone Wars? That had me intrigued reading his books.

xhoznzi

P.S. I know the above references aren't precisely "canon" but they were obviously referring to something that people had been thinking was part of the Clone War history.

Post
#301149
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Time
So, not to take the conversation in a new direction or anything...

I wanted to ask this question previously, but it seemed everyone was enjoying the current discussion. And then I was reading a lot of it on zombie's site...

What did we quote-unquote "know" about the PT before 1999? Some of it, obviously, was baseless rumour or conjecture, some of it was abandoned before the final product, and still some was actually in the movies. It looks like a lot of it is covered by zombie, but I haven't read all of it yet.

I can think of the following:
9/12/6 Movies. A trilogy of trilogies.

Mandalorian involvement

Clone Wars

Darth Vader hunted Jedi

Molten Battle between Anakin and Obiwan

Vader was the 12th Dark Lord of the Sith

Dang. I was thinking of more. What else shaped your anticipation of what the prequels would be?

xhonzi
Post
#301097
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Time
I still think the movie needed/needs a strong infusion of Clone Wars right there in Episode 1. And I don't just mean introducing a droid army that the clones are later used to fight. Lucas previously sited Japanese Samurai films (Kurasawa) as an example of: Using an historical context for the backdrop of an adventure story without pandering to the audience (whether they are familiar with the history or not) the reasons behind that history. He claimed that convinced him to not feel too strong of a need to go explicitly into the Empire/Rebel conflict and all of the reasons behind it; just let it stand that it was. He thinks, and I agree, that that take on the setting set it apart from the other sci-fi and fantasy of the time. I expected the same angle on the Clone Wars and was a little surprised (and disappointed) he didn't follow his own advice when setting up the backdrop for the PT.

Which brings me to my next random thought: I always like listening to ol' George prattle about story theory, but then I'm always surprised (and disappointed, natch) how much I think he doesn't follow it. Or at least we disagree with the application of said theory. On the contrary, I love practically all of Jim Cameron's work, and consider him to be one of the truly inspired director's of our day, but when I listen to him in interviews and on commentaries and the like, he seems to be so wrong about story theory. Maybe I'm wrong and that's why I agree with the wrong guy. And why I can't finish anything I write...

I think we can all agree that that is more like the Obi-Wan we expected from the PT (and partially, at least, got in RotS). I wonder what lead George to change it to the movie version. I guess it buys you this:

1) A pre-Anakin example of a Jedi Master/Apprentice relationship

2) More Jedi througout the film (this is their heyday, is it not?)

3) More concern for Qui-Gonn's death at the end

That's about all I can think of. Definately tempting, I would think. But ultimately you're selling more than you're buying.
xhonzi
Post
#300989
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Time
Originally posted by: CO

Anakins turn should have been a plot point, not THE main point of the PT, as that would give more time for the Clone Wars, the birth of the Rebellion, the Force Ghost, etc. Instead you have this PT about the rise/fall of Anakin that is suppose to shoehorn in with redemption of Anakin now in 4-6, and it just doesn't work, cause they literally look like TWO different sets of movies, and the OT was never the redemption of Darth Vader, that was just a plot point in ROTJ!


I can see what you're saying, but I have to disagree that the PT suffers from "too much focus" on Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. The PT seems to concern itself mostly (and I will concede that this it does well) with the political backstory of the Empire and how the Emperor pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and convinced them to hand over their Republic without so much as a whimper. I think that was well done, yet wasn't my biggest interest in the trilogy. The one thing I really wanted was a serious, believable, tragedy. The political machinations of Palpatine received far more screen time than the fall.

xhonzi
Post
#300908
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Time
Is anyone else having a math problem with the prequel trilogy...?

This is something that has been bugging me in trying to understand the prequel/original trilogy timeline...

Excatly how old are Anakin and Obiwan in the 2 trilogies?

I'd say from the OT that Anakin is 50ish (Shaw was 77 during Jedi filming) and Obiwan is maybe 60ish (Sir Alec was 62 during the filming of ANH). Sine Luke is 18-20 at most, the PT can only be 21 years earlier than the OT... which would place Anakin at 29 and Obiwan at 39, obviously not the ages they were in the PT. Anakin is, again, 20 at most at the end of RotS so that makes him 41 at most in ANH...

Do you know what I mean? How old do you think they should have been in the PT?

xhonzi
Post
#225777
Topic
Back to the Future as one film (Released)
Time
The one "deleted scene" I always wanted in Back to the Future I is that Marty notices a pile of sandbags on the stage as he leaves, but doesn't give it second thought. To me, that would add a little bit of mortar to cement the trilogy together. Making them all feel like one movie instead of parts II and III feeling like an afterthought.

I've never analyzed the footage to see if I could fan edit it in, but as long as you're messing with it...

Xhonzi