logo Sign In

vote_for_palpatine

User Group
Members
Join date
8-Jul-2006
Last activity
9-Jun-2010
Posts
1,114

Post History

Post
#301272
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301272/action/topic#301272
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Yeah, I'm going to end this exchange in this post. Bear in mind that I was not the one who began the putdown fest, so don't go playing the poor tortured victim here. I don't get preemptively snarky with anyone,...

Uh, dude, if you didn't start this putdown fest, then who did? Your memory isn't that great either, fortunately on message boards all things are recorded, check out your preemptive snarkiness posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 at 1:01 AM.

The first bit of snarkiness came from you with your (totally unfounded) attack on my usage of English. My first post in this thread came before that, and I attacked no one.

I hate hate hate that I keep having to restate and retype and rehash these things, but it seems like you're either not reading what I wrote or not comprehending it.


... and in fact my first post on this topic had nothing to do with you. To be fair, maybe that's what you thought because my first post came right after a post of yours.


To be fair, maybe I thought that not only because your first post in this exchange came right after my own, but consisted entirely of a quote by quote from my post,


Bull fucking shit. THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.

Here, let me post that ten more times so that maybe you'll see it.

THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.
THE VERY FIRST POST I MADE IN THIS THREAD DID NOT QUOTE ANYBODY.

My first post in this thread was on page one, it was the eleventh post, dated Saturday, November 10th, 2007, at 10:16 PM.

which included some slightly "snarky" comments about some of the things I had said, to which I responded "snarkily" only to your "snarky" bits and left the rest respectful. I may have been a bit harsh on your "Yoda/Chinese speak", but you yourself were using it as a way of putdown.


"Well, to pose a question you posed earlier, So what? Sets and puppets do not a movie make - just as CGI does not a movie make."


There was the original comment I made which prompted your "Yoda/Chinese" comment. What in the blue hell is harsh about this?!? Get the goddamn sand out of your twat.

Anyway, my mistake was responding to an exessive quote-and-address-every-sentence response,


To be accurate (which doesn't seem to concern you very much), your mistake was to start it, not in responding to it.
Post
#301203
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301203/action/topic#301203
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX
vote_for_palpatine, do you really like getting into these kinds of pointless debates? Because I don't. It is a waste of time and I don't have that much time to waste. They especially get pointless when they become biting and everyone starts talking down to each other. Since you already bothered to put me down in a few areas and make me sound stupid, I'll give a few quick defenses and clairifications,

Yeah, I'm going to end this exchange in this post. Bear in mind that I was not the one who began the putdown fest, so don't go playing the poor tortured victim here. I don't get preemptively snarky with anyone, and in fact my first post on this topic had nothing to do with you. To be fair, maybe that's what you thought because my first post came right after a post of yours.

Reading is fundamental, my son. You said all he did was whine and rebel" I never used the word "all", what I said was, "Instead of the hero Anakin Skywalker was suppose to be, we only see him as a..."

Maybe "only" was true strong of a word, but I still stand by what I said. We should have seen him as a hero, not a rebellious teen. Also what's with the "my son" what makes you so convinced you are so much older than me?

As I mentioned before, I only get snarky when attacked, hence the talking down. (I can't believe I'm actually explaining this!)

"That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know where you're getting this from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems that you think that Anakin is a flat character in AOTC. He's not."

Okay, I didn't realize your attack was against my use of the world "only" I thought you were saying it was not true that he was a rebellious teen, with the fact that he saved Obi-Wan as proof that he wasn't.

I wasn't attacking - I can't be expected to accurately read into things all the time, so when you used the word "only" I assumed that's what you meant.

"Those were sentence fragments used deliberately to make a point. I know how to write, thanks. And BTW, you meant to say " your English", not " you English"."

Hmm, don't see how talking like Yoda makes any points, but alright. Yeah, I have a tendacy to leave the "r"s off of my "your"s when I am typing in a hurry and not proof reading. Very clever on turning that around to prove I can't write and you can. I can see you are very experienced in arguing over the internet.

Oh come on! You've never heard the expression "One _________ does not a _________ make?" I didn't pull that out of thin air. Chances are rather good that most posters here have heard that phrase at one time or another.

"That's good and fair. However, if AOTC and especially ROTS had been better movies, I don't think people would object to the CG as much."

Of course! No doubt about it. It could have been a full out CG film without a spec of live footage to be found anywhere, and I would have had nothing but praise for it had it been a good movie.


"Zing!"

Yeah, I figured you would answer with something like that.

Ba-zing!

"Your previous post was vaguely worded to the point where I had to guess at your meaning. You explained yourself much better this time."

I never even mentioned the artistry of it, odd you would assume that.


I'll explain below why it's actually far from odd to make that assumption.

You told me it was incorrect to compare it to the OT battles because of they were not as artistic. Not even sure how something like that has the ability to be incorrect.


No, I'm sure you're right - the artistry of the OT saber battles is right up on par with the TPM saber battle. Oh, wait...

I said, "it by far has the greatest OTish moments of the whole PT in it. That saber battle at the end set the standard for saber battles so high, and unfortunately neither of the other two even tried." Not sure how that is vague, I simply meant that it set the standard for saber battles pretty high and the other two didn't even come close. I consider it an OTish moment because it was a moment in the film where I felt like I was watching a new Star Wars movie.


So your claim is that you're not sure how it's vague? All right - allow me to elaborate:

I said, "it by far has the greatest OTish moments of the whole PT in it. That saber battle at the end set the standard for saber battles so high, and unfortunately neither of the other two even tried."


There's nothing vague about a general standard? What is the standard?? You see, I can compare things by specific standards - scores on standardized tests, batting averages of baseball players, sales figures of new release DVDs, and so on. However, I didn't have anything specific from you in regard to which standard to judge the saber battle with - did you mean an artistic standard? Were you referring to the tension the scene created, was that the standard? Was the battle technically accurate, was that the standard? I had no idea what you meant before, so I assumed it was the artistry of the scene, which was in my opinion was practically all the merit that scene had going for it. However, you clarified yourself in the response, which was to say that it was the tension of the scene. OK, fine. Be clear from the beginning, and we don't waste all of this precious time.

"It deserves that flak because it is a bad, bad, terrible movie" = plenty of answers? Forgive me if I'm still not convinced."

I never said that that one sentence was the plenty of good answers. I wrote more than just that.


You wrote plenty, most of which had nothing to do with AOTC.

"This is your second jab at my circular reasoning post. I'm wondering if you even know what that means."

Yes, I made it this far in life without knowing what circular reasoning was, you caught me. You are by far my intellectual superior.


See, that didn't hurt, did it?

"This answers an argument I didn't make."

I didn't intend to answer an arguement made by you with that last section of my last post. It was in response to your feeling that AOTC gets too much undeserved flak. I was just offering that I didn't feel they got undeserved flak, but rather quite the opposite.


"I didn't intend to answer you, it was in response to you". Huh?

If you learn nothing else from this exchange, learn that words mean things. That, and also if you're going to start cracking on people, don't get all drama queeny when they crack back. Keep it civil, and so will I.

See you round the cosmos. (sentence fragment)
Post
#301113
Topic
Why Anakin should have been 20 years old in TPM.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301113/action/topic#301113
Time
I agree with you, and this reminds me of something amusing I read on theforce.net.

There was a thread entitled "Visual Storytelling at its Greatest: In Depth Analysis" in which posters were giving Lucas all kinds of credit for basically using the same shots from movie to movie. True, there was some value in some of the parallel shots, but the thread was filled with inappropriately high praise.

Lucas loves to reuse ideas. There's Boba Fett in Ep. II, Chewbacca in Ep. III, Jabba and Greedo in Ep. I (yeah, it was a cutscene, but Jesus! Greedo?!?) - and that's just the short list. And in TPM, Lucas had the chance to introduce another parallel - the journey of the father echoing the journey of the son, but he started Anakin at the age of 10.

The PT fascinates me. It could have been much more, so very much more, than it was.
Post
#301111
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301111/action/topic#301111
Time

That scene felt too choreographed to me. It lacked the kinetic feel of the duels in ESB and ROTJ. I agree that the SW duel wasn't much, but considering Ben's age and the fact that he had decided beforehand to let Vader "win", it's understandable why it ended up being what it was.

The ESB duel to me was the best. Maybe it wasn't quite as fancy as the TPM duel, but it felt more like a real duel. You could feel Luke's utter exhaustion by the end. The duel in TPM felt more to me like a dance.

I wasn't judging the saber battle in an overall sense - I was judging them by an artistic standard. I do agree with you that the TPM battle lacks realism at times, particularly when Obi-Wan and Darth Maul spin away from each other and strike a pose. Also, the end of that duel was extremely stupid. Darth Maul, who can evidently react with incredible quickness to anything, basically stands there while Obi-Wan vaults over him, calls a saber into has hand, and cuts him in half.


Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine


Look - my argument isn't based upon how I would have written the prequels. As Episode II was written, Anakin clashing with Obi-Wan was a relevant plot point and I think Episode II fulfilled its basic objectives adequately.

Man, if the criteria for a movie being decent were that it fullfills it objectives that it set out to make, then we would have a lot less crappy movies. I am sure the makers of Mano the Hands of Fate felt that their film went out to achieve they wanted it to from a story telling standpoint. Anakin's clashing with Obi-Wan could have been done a million other ways, but the way that it was done is a joke and painful to watch. Hence, it deserve flak.

But what is TPM trying to accomplish? It tries to establish Anakin as the chosen one. And sure, he runs a good podrace, but in the end he's just randomly pressing buttons in space and not only doesn't get blown to bits, he destroys the Death Star - er, Droid Control Ship.

Not true. The opening dialogue between he and Obi-Wan establishes that Anakin has saved Obi-Wan at least once before. Later, Anakin foils the second assassination attempt, rescues Obi-Wan in the skies or Coruscant, then dives out of his speeder onto the assassin's.

So just because he saves Obi-Wan's life, doesn't mean he wasn't rebellious, whiney teenager.

Reading is fundamental, my son. You said all he did was whine and rebel, that he wasn't shown as a hero. In the first 30 minutes of the movie, Anakin pulls off three heroic acts. I didn't deny that Anakin was whiny and rebellious - you said he was nothing but that. Let the record reflect that you were wrong.

I have known teens who have claimed to hate their parents and wish they were dead, only for their parents to end up actually dying some accident, and guess what? The kid usually has a pretty hard time coping with this. So you are saying that if Anakin were truely a rebellious teenager, he would simply not have bothered to save Obi-Wan's life?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know where you're getting this from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems that you think that Anakin is a flat character in AOTC. He's not. He obviously respects Obi-Wan, yet bristles under his tutelage at the same time. If your point is that Hayden Christiansen didn't properly convey that dichotomy, I have no problem with that. HC was terrible in AOTC, and not much better in ROTS.

This sounds suspiciously like circular reasoning.

Okay... good comeback... uh... never mind.

Wow. QED, I guess.

Well, to pose a question you posed earlier, So what? Sets and puppets do not a movie make - just as CGI does not a movie make.


Okay, you English is really falling apart on his in the last sentence, just thought I'd mention it.


Those were sentence fragments used deliberately to make a point. I know how to write, thanks. And BTW, you meant to say " your English", not " you English".

No, that does not make a movie, never said it did. But it undeniably sets the feel of a movie. I feel like I could visit Theed. I feel like I could walk through the jungles of Naboo, just like it has always felt that I could walk though the forests of Endor, or the snows of Hoth. There are really no locations in either of the other two films that feel tangible. Oddball and the clone pilots were so painfully CG, as were many of the other CG characters. This is why I said that TPM felt more real and organic than the others. Never said it was a good movie because it used puppets and real locations. I simply said those contributed to it feeling more real than the others. If you ask me what Kashyyk looks like, I would say blurry and green. Because that is all I ever got out. Feels like a scene out of a 100% CG film, not even any of the characters are real in those scenes. If it had been real, the whole wookie battle probably would have been pretty cool. Imagine the ewok battle, but with wookies.


That's good and fair. However, if AOTC and especially ROTS had been better movies, I don't think people would object to the CG as much.

Well, as far as sheer artistry goes, there is no surpassing the Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan battle. That was a beautifully coreographed scene. However, it is incorrect to connect this saber battle to any in the OT. The saber battles in the OT weren't nearly that artistic, especially the very first one.


Oh, sorry, I didn't realize it was incorrect to connect it to the OT. I should have asked you first if it was correct or not.


Zing!

What I meant by that had nothign to do with sheer artistry, what I mean by that was that it was the only lightsaber battle in the PT, that was fun to watch like the OT. It was the only lightsaber battle in the PT, that had you on the edge of your seat, like the lightsaber battles of the OT. But this too is probably incorrect, or circular, or spherical or something.


Your previous post was vaguely worded to the point where I had to guess at your meaning. You explained yourself much better this time.

Anyway, you asked why does it deserve so much flak, I gave you plenty of answers by now.


"It deserves that flak because it is a bad, bad, terrible movie" = plenty of answers? Forgive me if I'm still not convinced.

I thought you seriously wanted to have someone point out to you why it gets so much flak, not to get into an endless debate on why it is treated unfairly, and who is and isn't giving suspiciously circular reasoning.


This is your second jab at my circular reasoning post. I'm wondering if you even know what that means.

In all honesty I don't think you can say the PT is treated unfairly by any means at all, it is a series of crappy movies that are successful simply because they bear the same name as a series of really good movies that were made a long time ago. They really didn't deserve the success they got. If it hadn't been for the name Star Wars, it is not likely it would have done too well. You can say they may have done well on their own, and they may have, but you simply can't ignore the 20 years worth of Star Wars fans who rushed to theaters with their kids to see each one of these that would not have done so had it been something completely different.


This answers an argument I didn't make.
Post
#301077
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301077/action/topic#301077
Time
But what does any of that matter? Who cares if Anakin struggled with his mentor, was that really ever suppose to be the point?

Look - my argument isn't based upon how I would have written the prequels. As Episode II was written, Anakin clashing with Obi-Wan was a relevant plot point and I think Episode II fulfilled its basic objectives adequately.

Instead of the hero Anakin Skywalker was suppose to be, we only see him as a rebellious teenager.

Not true. The opening dialogue between he and Obi-Wan establishes that Anakin has saved Obi-Wan at least once before. Later, Anakin foils the second assassination attempt, rescues Obi-Wan in the skies or Coruscant, then dives out of his speeder onto the assassin's.

I don't see any of those things you listed as a defense for AOTC against all the flak it gets. It deserves that flak because it is a bad, bad, terrible movie.

This sounds suspiciously like circular reasoning.

I wouldn't call TPM a failure in most respects though. None of the PT were failures, they all did great in Box Office and DVD sales, thanks to their name.


When I said failure, I didn't mean commercially. I don't even care about that sort of thing. Lots of shitty movies, many worse than TPM, have made big money.

TPM is the only one of the trilogy that strikes me as real. It is the only one with an organic feel to it. It still used pupets and it still used locations. All the others just feel like extended toy commercials.


Well, to pose a question you posed earlier, So what? Sets and puppets do not a movie make - just as CGI does not a movie make.

Phantom had some very childish elements, but if you go beyond that then it by far has the greatest OTish moments of the whole PT in it. That saber battle at the end set the standard for saber battles so high, and unfortunately neither of the other two even tried.


Well, as far as sheer artistry goes, there is no surpassing the Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan battle. That was a beautifully coreographed scene. However, it is incorrect to connect this saber battle to any in the OT. The saber battles in the OT weren't nearly that artistic, especially the very first one.


Post
#301068
Topic
"I was ONCE (emphasis mine) a Jedi Knight, the same as your father."
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301068/action/topic#301068
Time
OK, so what does Obi-Wan mean by that?

He mentioned during that scene that "Now the Jedi are all but extinct." So, they're still around, but he says himself that he's no longer one of them.

I realize this is fanboy minutia, but it seems to me as though Obi-Wan is living as a Jedi throughout the movie. When Obi-Wan dies, he disappears, which reinforces what he told Darth Vader moments before.

What gives?
Post
#301065
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301065/action/topic#301065
Time

I realize that so much of this sort of discussion comes down to taste, but I don't understand how AOTC takes as much flak as it does.

TPM was an utter failure in most respects, but it did at least succeed at getting the PT story underway. A lot of AOTC was significantly flawed, but we did get to see Anakin struggling with his mentor, with his attraction to Padme, and with his Dark Side temptations (I disagree with the execution, as I will address later). ROTS doesn't fulfill its primary purpose - a plausible turn to the Dark Side by Anakin Skywalker.

First of all, Anakin's character development was out of its logical order. In AOTC, Anakin openly clashes with his master but is all buddy-buddy with Obi-Wan in ROTS. If someone is moving gradually toward the Dark Side of the Force, does it not logically follow that Anakin would be more friendly to, and less critical of, Obi-Wan the second movie rather than the third? Ditto his attitude toward the Jedi Order. He doesn't particularly praise or criticize the Order until they placed him onto the Council without granting him the rank of Master. I actually liked that plot point in ROTS, but there was absolutely no build up to it. Anakin, starting in AOTC, should have been wary of the Order and that suspicion should have festered and grown all throughout AOTC and ROTS up to the Council's decision, where Anakin's distrust of the Order reached a boiling point. Anakin at least revealed a mistrust of Republic politics in AOTC, but that one aspect of Anakin's character wasn't enough to convince. I know lots of people who don't trust the government and don't slaughter children.

Second of all, Anakin's treatment of Padme in ROTS was baffling. "I love you, I love our child, I'll save you, but right after I turn to the Dark Side, I'll try to kill you after we have a little spat just because you're hanging out with Obi-Wan." Huh?

Third of all, Anakin's loyalty to Palpatine should grow steadily (again, starting in AOTC). No one kills children ten seconds after swearing loyalty to another - hell, I'll bet even Charles Manson gave his followers simple tests at first: "Prove your loyalty to me...and hand me that pencil!"

ROTS was supposed to be the payoff of the PT - but it didn't work for me.
Post
#298033
Topic
Prequelize the OT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/298033/action/topic#298033
Time


Great stuff, CO and Gaffer Tape. Keep 'em coming, everyone!

C3PO: Thank the Maker - this oil bath is going to feel soooooo good. Once it is complete, my sense of satisfaction will be great. Indeed, I will be much relieved whenever this bath is over. I've got such a bad case of dust contamination I can barely move. The sand on this planet is infiltrating every single one of my joints, thus inhibiting my movements. I don't like sand. It's rough, it's coarse, it's irritating - and it gets everywhere.

LUKE: It just isn't fair - in fact, it's unjust! Wrong, even! Gosh, not even playing with this model of an Incom T-65 Skyhopper is negating my restlessness and ennui! Aw, my old buddy Biggs, my good friend from way back who I'm sure I'll never see again, is right - 100% correct, not wrong in the least; I'm never going to get out of here - that is to say, leave Tattooine!

C3PO: Pardon my asking, do forgive my impertinence, please permit me this intrusion, but is there anything I might do to help? Bear in mind that I am only a protocol droid with a limited function set, but perhaps your needs may be met by one of my primary functions?

LUKE: Well, not unless you alter time, speed up the harvest, teleport me off this rock, send me into the past, accelerate the vaporation process, break down my molecular structure into a transmittable beam of energy and directing it to Coruscant, distort the fabric of space thus allowing me free travel through history, transport me-

C3PO: I don't think so, sir. I apologize, for I can perform none of those tasks you mentioned. I am merely a protocol droid. I'm afraid I cannot do that. Not possible, unfortunately. No.
Post
#297977
Topic
Prequelize the OT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/297977/action/topic#297977
Time



To understand what this thread is about, I reference A Digital Man's "prequelized" treatment of the following scene in ROTJ:

Original Scene


LUKE: Your overconfidence is your weakness.

EMPEROR: Your faith in your friends is yours.


A Digital Man, channelling George Lucas circa 2004:



"Luke, you are destined to join the dark side of the force and become a Sith like your father became a Sith before you. Only together can we discover the mystery of how to bring your mother back to life. But to do that you must first kill your father, just as he killed children in order to become strong in the Force. Only then will you be strong enough in the dark side to save your dead mother's life."

"I do not agree with the logic behind your statement, Your Highness. From my point of view that is an evil statement. Soon I will be dead and you will also be dead, and my father will also be dead. You both will be dead along with me. We all will be dead together. Your overconfidence in your plan to lure me to the dark side and have me kill my father to take his place because of the psychological issues with me not knowing my parents growing up while you have had a vision of the future, which is always in motion anyway, is your weakness."

"Your faith in the good side of the Force, and that it will not only protect you but also your friends as they execute their battle plans on the moon below us is yours."


Now that we have context, feel free to use this thread to prequelize the OT! Spare no words! Make GL proud!

LUKE: "The Force"? You mentioned something called "The Force" - since you also mentioned that you used to be a Jedi Knight, as my father, whom I have never met, though I wish I had, also once was - in connection with your fomer status as a Jedi Knight, it would then seem that a Jedi Knight, which you and my father once were, has knowledge of this "Force". I would know more of this "Force" you speak of, Ben.

OBI-WAN: The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. When your father and I were Jedi together, we relied on the Force to give us power - as did all the other Jedi. The Force is an energy field, created by all living things, related in some indeterminate way to microorganisms called midichlorians. The Force surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together - and when I say "us", I refer not only to you and I, but to all living things which create the Force.



LUKE: I've lost Artoo, my on-board astromech droid! A pursuing Imperial fighter was firing upon my X-Wing and struck Artoo - now it appears he's inoperative! If the pursuing Imperials strike a vital system on my X-Wing, I now have no way to repair it, thus making me more vulnerable to further attacks!

VADER: I have you now! Your ship has entered into the optimal zone of my targeting computer, which allows me to fire upon you with great accuracy. In just a matter of moments, I will have destroyed your ship, whoever you are! Wait a second, where are those blasts coming from? My wingman has just been destroyed...but all the other Rebel ships have been accounted for! I'm confused!

HAN: Yahoo! Wow! Yippee! No one thought I'd come back to help, as I had previously made it very clear to everyone involved in the Rebel Alliance that I am allied to money, not causes! I hope my hooting and hollering has strengthened your resolve, Luke! Now that my diversionary tactics have succeeded, fire your proton torpedoes upon the thermal exhaust port as mentioned in the tactical briefing by General Dodonna, and we can all return to a safe place - "home", if you will!

LUKE: (firing) This is tense!

TARKIN: (to no one in particular) In seconds, the Rebel Base will be destroyed! Ha ha haaaa!

 

Post
#290837
Topic
So...today I bought Attack of the clones just to have a complete collection
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/290837/action/topic#290837
Time
Among the prequels, I like AOTC the best (not saying much). ROTS is a better film in a technical sense, but Anakin's motivation and his turning scene - you know, the single biggest plot point in the six-part Saga from the perspective of "Vader=Star Wars" - were both handled horribly. Wretchedly. Inexcusably so. Basically, Anakin turns to the Sith (far too quickly) for Padme's sake, then chokes her, then, after turning into the familiar Darth Vader, asks if Padme's okay. I didn't buy any of it.

TPM just sucks. It feels like Bizarro Star Wars.
Post
#289812
Topic
Your first words of reaction after watching one of the PT movies for the first time.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/289812/action/topic#289812
Time
TPM: After it ended, I was on a sort of artificial high based upon the fact that I had just seen an entire SW movie at the theater on a premiere night. Fortunately, one of the friends I saw it with wasn't rooting for it to be good like I was, and he immediately began breaking down all the ways in which the movie failed. He was annoying me, largely because what he was saying was true.

AOTC: I enjoyed it. I realized even then that it wasn't a great movie or anything, but the action/combat scenes had more of a SW feel than those in TPM. It felt more like a SW movie than TPM did. I don't know what my reaction would have been if TPM never existed and AOTC was Episode I. I suppose I'll never know.

ROTS: Pretty good, but underwhelming. All in all, though, my OT:SE viewings were much more fun.

BTW Mielr, I could be wrong, but I recall reading something which said that Amidala's voice was done by another actress.
Post
#288174
Topic
For Sale: ESB Collectors Edition Original Script: Make Me An Offer
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/288174/action/topic#288174
Time

Back when I bought this around 1995, I intended to collect all three. I did not find the other two then and I have since abandoned the idea of collecting memorabilia. All I’ve got (besides the script) is the films and a Force FX Luke Skywalker lightsaber, and that’s all that I want from a collection standpoint.

So I would like to sell this script. Is it worth something to you? Let me know. I would prefer to sell it here rather than on EBay.

Post
#283755
Topic
Upload 8 (RotS) Sentencing - April 12th
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/283755/action/topic#283755
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
And in other news the war on drugs was dealt a crippling blow by the prosecution of eight teenage drug dealers. Victory will be imminent!



This just in: Murder has been decriminalized across the United States. The new legislation was called for after several studies found that committing murder was unpreventable, and therefore all efforts made to curtail said activity were called "archaic", "Victorian", and "prohibitionist".


Post
#281428
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281428/action/topic#281428
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

During the Clone Wars, Anakin was cloned without his knowledge - that clone, subservient to Palpatine, would become Darth Vader. He would have killed Anakin, infiltrated the Jedi Order, impregnated Padme (who assumed it was Anakin the entire time), and when the destruction of the Jedi was nearly complete, reveal everything to Obi-Wan in a Bond-villainesque kind of way. The one thing Darth Vader didn't plan on, in this scenario, was Obi-Wan beating him down in a duel near a volcano.

How does that twist work?


Pretty sweet idea. A little hard to explain though.


Hard for the characters, as in Obi-Wan explaining to Luke? Well, nothing has to change otherwise. When Obi-Wan tells Luke his father's history, Obi-Wan doesn't know that Vader's his father; he assumed the entire time that Anakin was. (In my scenario, Vader didn't reveal his impending fatherhood because he didn't know about it himself, nor did he care - he was just fulfilling his role as the Emperor's mole)

So how does Vader know that Luke is his son? Inductive reasoning. Last name Skywalker, considers the possibility that he may have impregnated Padme during his "mole time", he can sense Luke's midichlorian count, uh, I mean, strength in the Force. Presumably, Vader's own strength in the Force permits him to put all of that evidence together - after all, he located the Rebels after a quick viewing of the powr generators on Hoth.

The only thing lacking with this storyline is Obi-Wan's explanatin to Luke - the content is more consistent than before, but not entirely consistent.

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader - who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil - helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father...now the Jedi are all but extinct."

In the Anakin-clone scenario, Vader didn't betray; in a betrayal you first earn the confidence of the victim. The Episode III dialogue explaining that away would have been very...contrived.

Plus, in this scenario, the POV scene would have needed to be redone with Ewan McGregor giving all-new dialogue. I liked McGregor as Obi-Wan a lot, but the last thing ROTJ needs is the insertion of one of the PT actors as a Force ghost to...oh, that's been done already. Disregard.
Post
#281423
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281423/action/topic#281423
Time
Originally posted by: Dug
I wish the sibling thing hadn't happened at all, and I wish the "point of view" thing hadn't happened at all. There was an easy way to "fix" this, if you will... and that was simply to make Luke the son of Darth Vader, i.e., the Darth Vader as a name and person (not a title) and there was an Anakin, too, and he really was killed by Darth Vader. We can still carry many of the same themes as before. Luke senses good in his father, he feels he can turn him back. Leia could still be the child of Skywalker, and she could still be used as Vader's threat to turn him, etc., ("If you will not turn, then perhaps she will"). It still works. All they had to do was make these two little changes, and everything would have been just fine. No P.O.V. No lying Obi-Wan. I would appreciate the OT tremendously more.


Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

During the Clone Wars, Anakin was cloned without his knowledge - that clone, subservient to Palpatine, would become Darth Vader. He would have killed Anakin, infiltrated the Jedi Order, impregnated Padme (who assumed it was Anakin the entire time), and when the destruction of the Jedi was nearly complete, reveal everything to Obi-Wan in a Bond-villainesque kind of way. The one thing Darth Vader didn't plan on, in this scenario, was Obi-Wan beating him down in a duel near a volcano.

How does that twist work?

Post
#280872
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280872/action/topic#280872
Time
I'm not a fan of the sister thing, but I did like how Vader used it to goad Luke into fighting him. He started with Luke's friends, figured out he had a sister, invoked Obi-Wan's "failure" just to piss off Luke even more, then raised the possibility of turning Leia to the Dark Side. It was Vader's last truly dark moment, and I wonder how well it would have worked without the existence of Leia as sister. Sure, maybe it would have worked as Luke's love interest, but I don't believe that this particular scene doesn't work as it is.

And ROTJ brought perhaps my favorite moment of any Star Wars movie:

"Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."
Post
#279888
Topic
How does Star Wars compare?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/279888/action/topic#279888
Time
What I have in mind is this:

My guess is that Star Wars would be considered by most of us to be the best entertainment franchise around. However, I could be wrong, and that's where this thread comes in. I want to know -

1) - is one of the Star Wars films your favorite single film? If not, where on your list does it rank?

2) - how you compare the OUT to other sequalized film franchises such as Rocky, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings, Back to the Future, James Bond (just to name a few). Is the OUT better than all of them? If not, what do you prefer? And how does the six-film saga compare with those other franchises? How does the PT compare?

3) - did any other entertainment experience ever impact you in the same, or approximately the same, way that Star Wars did?

Here are my answers.

1) Star Wars (Episode IV for Lucasites) has been and remains my favorite film of all time. I really can't see that changing at this point.

2) The OUT is the best of the lot. Second on my list would be the Spider-Man series so far. It's been great, and I'm really looking forward to 3. As for the "Star Wars Saga", it really doesn't exist for me. I think the attempt to connect the two trilogies ultimately failed, and the PT as an isolated trilogy works much better. The OT is made poorer for its ties to the so-called saga.

3) Final Fantasy VII was an amazing experience for me. For a time, I could honestly say it was better than nearly every movie I had seen to that point. Of course, in due time I would revise that opinion, but the story was great, the characters were memorable and worth caring about, the music was tremendous, and there were many moving moments throughout. Douglas Adams Hitchiker's Guide series was also a wonderful experience. Adams was such a skilled phrase player - he mined hilarity from a lot of unexpected places. The story never would stand still, and as was the case for Star Wars and Final Fantasy VII, I cared a lot about the characters involved. And I'm predicting that effective use of character will be the common theme for most, if not all, of our answers in regard to this category.

Eager to see your answers!
Post
#279612
Topic
Expanded Universe Unacceptance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/279612/action/topic#279612
Time
The chief problem with EU was the oversaturation of themes.

- Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, the droids, and all the others embroiled in yet another serious threat to the New Republic.

- The emergence of a new villain. With these, there were slight variations: one time, it might be a high-ranking Imperial officer. Another time, it might be a rogue force-user. Or it could be someone threatening Han and Leia's children.

- And of course, there's always some superweapon involved; it may be a Death Star-like machine, or it may be some unbelievable new Star Destroyer twice the size of Vader's.

- Storylines broken into a trilogy of books. There was (not to praise or criticize the quality, just listing the ones I remember) The Thrawn Trilogy, The Black Fleet Trilogy, The Corellian Trilogy, The Bounty Hunter Wars Trilogy, The Han Solo Trilogy (by Crispin), the Jedi Academy Trilogy...and again, I may be leaving some out. These are just the trilogies I remember. I think the authors tried to connect their work to the OT by structuring the stories in this way. I thought it was cheap to do so.

I liked a lot of the books and generally preferred the books that resisted the same old themes listed above. In fact, one forgettable book, The Crystal Star, was entertaining in one way - Luke and Han had been travelling together and were getting on each other's nerves. I couldn't tell you anything else about that book, but that part was pretty cool.
Post
#277227
Topic
The Best Star Wars Books?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/277227/action/topic#277227
Time
I liked the Thrawn trilogy, like most pepole did. I wonder how good it would have seemed in the middle of all the new EU rather than at the head of it. After a while, every writer had a "Trilogy" out there, all with superweapons, all with threats to the Solo children, all with the new badass, la-dee-dah.

The titles I'd recommend:

Shadows of the Empire - my only quibble was how Dash Rendar had a stupid name and was written to "out-Solo" Han Solo. Freaking stupid. Rest of it's plenty good, though.

The Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy - a lot more subtle than the most of the other EU trilogies. One of the villians seemed odd, even by sci-fi standards; also, author KW Jeter was apparently legally obligated to include the word "obsequious" as often as possible. Still, very entertaining.

AC Crispin's Han Solo trilogy - better than the Thrawn trilogy, IMO.

For PTEU, I liked the James Luceno novel, Cloak of Deception and (the author escapes me) Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter.

Everything else I've read ranged from average to bad to god-awful. Children of the Jedi had literary AIDS, I swear.