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G&G-Fan

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17-Jan-2019
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5-Mar-2024
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Post
#1576625
Topic
Anakin should have become Darth Vader before the last 10 minutes of Episode III
Time

Caston said:

I’d like to still see that original finished cut of ROTS, before George reshot and re-edited it to focus on Anakin. I’ve just started reading The Secret History of Star Wars again and am looking forward to this section in the book.

This short article is worth reading for anyone interested in how ROTS ended up on screen (though the book goes into considerably more detail, IIRC): http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/theturn.html
 

Maybe we’ll get to see those unused shots on other story arcs and characters in a “50th anniversary box set” or something, along with many other unused shots or deleted scenes for all 11 of the main films?

I really like some ideas from the older version and dislike others.

The original conception of Anakin’s turn was that the darkside was slowly turning and corrupting his mind, like some kind of drug or virus. Anakin’s massacre of the Tusken Raiders was initially a pivotal point (in many other ways as well, as we will see later) because it gave him his first taste of this awesome power, and slowly but surely he would be drawn back to it. Thus, when Anakin struck down Mace (or Dooku, in the original conception), it was the consumation of a journey that began in Episode II. This is why the Emperor was sure Luke would fall in Return of the Jedi if he killed Vader out of hate–once you had tasted its power, it would be so irresistable that you would inevitably be drawn back to it, and slowly it would consume you, twisting your mind.

This is great, I love this idea. This is really what the center of Anakin’s turn to Vader should’ve been about: that addiction to the dark side. OT Vader boasted the power of the dark side so much, you’d think that’s the reason he turned.

I especially love how it retroactively makes Return of the Jedi even better by giving a previous example of how taking revenge, no matter how seemingly justified, can trap someone in the dark side.

I don’t like the idea that Anakin genuinely believes the Jedi are taking over the Republic. Vader was never a character that believed he was doing the right thing. He was a power-hungry monster. In ROTJ it’s clear he knows what he’s doing is wrong. I like it better in the current cut, where it’s more just an excuse he gives himself rather then something he genuinely believes, but even that I’m iffy on. The most ideal version would be accepting that he’s become a monster but pretends he doesn’t care.

Post
#1576411
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED **
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Obi Wan is gung-ho on killing Vader throughout the entire trilogy. Especially in this movie, where he says the Emperor has already won since Luke won’t kill his own father. He seems to imply that was always the plan for Luke, too. Which means Vader’s line suggesting that Obi-Wan once told him to run away together contradicts itself within its own film. So I seriously hope this line is amended. Even ignoring the prequels, it makes zero sense based on what we know about the characters.

First, Vader says “Obi-Wan once thought as you do”. Originally Obi-Wan was gonna try and bring Vader back to the light after he turned, but failed. He’s referring to a past attempt.

Second, Lucas didn’t intend on it coming across that Obi-Wan was gun-ho on killing Vader. Obi-Wan saying that Luke not being able to kill his father means “the Emperor has already won” is simply him acknowledging that if Vader refuses to turn and puts Luke in a position where he has to kill him and he refuses, then yeah, the Emperor will win.

“He knows that, eventually, Darth Vader is gonna come looking for them. He knows this thing is going to blow up in a big war. He knows a confrontation is brewing between Luke and his father. Ben hopes that Luke will either save his father or kill him, because whatever extra powers Luke’s got in his lineage, he is the one person that can probably fight his father and win.” - The Star Wars Archives: 1977-1983, 2018

Now, obviously Obi-Wan isn’t optimistic that Vader can be saved. He does think Luke will be forced to kill him, hence why the dialogue is the way it is.

Regardless of if it came across well in the film itself, the Jedi don’t explicitly send him to murder Vader, they just tell him to confront/face him. And we also circle back to my first point.

I’m indifferent about the line change. I think the original line works because I view the originals as a separate entity from the prequels as is (even if I still enjoy ROTS to a degree) and the new line works because Vader acknowledging Luke’s mother is rather touching. I don’t think it’s a make-or-break type of deal.

Post
#1575375
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Labyrinth Of Evil (Released)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I like ROTS the way it is, but if I had to change one thing it would definitely be that robot’s line. Something like, “We aren’t sure why, but her life energy is fading away”. Just so that it’s clear either Palpatine, or Vader unknowingly, is draining her life force into Anakin so he can be reborn as Darth Vader. If Vader did unintentionally do it due to his angry thoughts dwelling on her that would make the most sense with Palpatine’s next line: “It appears, in your anger, you killed her.” That line doesn’t match him choking her anyways because that was never what she died from in the original. Vader’s next line would then explain that he likely absorbed her life force: “She was alive, I felt it!” Yeah, of course you felt it, you were unintentionally absorbing it so you could stay alive.

Random side note, but I find the “ooooba” part absolutely hilarious. Just another meme to make this movie a true masterpiece.

You just opened pandora’s box by giving Palpatine and Vader the ability to just steal the life force and kill anyone anywhere anytime they want. The Rebellion and Jedi would never stand a chance and they would become all-powerful force gods from absorbing all that energy.

Post
#1574630
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP)
Time

Updated the changelist.

It now reflects everything I have come up with to successfully implement the idea that Anakin turns because he wants the power of immortality. I’m also including some deleted scenes in the opening act.

Unlike what I initially planned, a rough draft of this edit is likely coming out before the other two. Partially because I’m more enthusiastic about this one.

Post
#1573929
Topic
Community Focus Thread 1: The Phantom Menace
Time

Gandalf the Cyan said:

It’s a good idea, but I think that would work much better if we actually SAW Anakin being treated badly. In the actual movie, his slave life doesn’t seem all that bad. This is a minor issue in TPM, but having Anakin’s vengefulness being a plot point without seeing his abuse would make the issue much more obvious.

One of the changes I was planning on making was taking advantage of the alien language dialogue and making Watto verbally abusive and alluding to worse stuff happening off-screen.

Post
#1573567
Topic
Community Focus Thread 1: The Phantom Menace
Time

In a wider effort to reorient Anakin’s turn to Vader to being more about power then attachment (something I’m trying to accomplish with my “Vader Edition” prequel trilogy), what if part of the reason the Council rejects Anakin is because he secretly craves revenge on his master? I’d be 100% understandable, he was a slave. I don’t think there was ever a slave that didn’t want to give their master what they deserved.

The part of him missing his mother would still be incorporated, but I think it’d go a long way to show that Anakin had power-hungry tendencies from the beginning which ties into his past as a slave.

Post
#1573526
Topic
How to Watch Star Wars, Part Two: The Special Editions Are the Movies, Get Over It
Time

Something funny about the video is when he’s going over how the special editions are “nothing new” (the comparisons are always false equivalencies) he brings up the Lord of the Rings 4K and criticizes the color grades (rightfully) for being worse.

But Rick, by your logic, you’re not allowed to do that! It’s Peter Jackson’s vision, he can do whatever he wants with it! They’re his movies, you’re not allowed to criticize him! You’re stuck with it and if you ask for the theatrical version you’re just an entitled child!

Also he says the changes to LOTR were done “thoughtlessly” and then spends so much of the video defending far more thoughtless changes to the OT.

Post
#1573148
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Lucas trying to parallel Anakin and Luke’s arcs does nothing but detriment the story.

Luke’s arc in the OT is going from a farm boy to a Jedi Knight. Each movie is a different trial in his path to become one, and he’s not fully a Jedi until ROTJ. Anakin, as established in the OT, was a Jedi who became a Sith. Becoming Darth Vader should’ve been what the whole trilogy was about.

But Lucas clearly wanted to parallel Luke, where the first movie is basically just his recruitment, the second is being a padawan learner, and then in the third one, he’s a Knight. And that just fundamentally doesn’t work. By trying to parallel Luke’s arc but also build up to him becoming Vader, Lucas just makes Anakin look like a bad egg. He’s slaughtering Tusken kids at 19. They had him peak when he was 9. Nine. And it’s what leads to ROTS being rushed, even if I still enjoy it. He had to develop Anakin as a Jedi Knight and his turn in like, an hour. That’s insane.

It should’ve just started with Anakin as a Jedi. There’s nothing we learn about him in episodes 1 and 2 that couldn’t be exposition.

Post
#1572288
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

NFBisms, I’m doing an edit of ROTS where one of Anakin’s motivations is that he craves the power of immortality. I’m hiring a Palpatine voice actor (who’s done work for Star Wars Story in the past) to do new Palpatine lines to integrate this idea. I’m also rearranging scenes so for example the opera scene (with some changed dialogue) comes before the nightmare about Padme’s death (showing Anakin’s intrigued by the prospect of cheating death even before), and Palpatine isn’t even gonna know about the nightmare.

I don’t have the Palpatine lines yet (I need some time to make money after the holidays) but once the edit is done, if your vision aligns with mine in that way, I’d be more then happy to allow you to use them.

Post
#1571568
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

SparkySywer said:

Why put The Phantom Menace so low?

Once the initial action-packed opening ended it became really boring. The movie throws away pretty much all potential it has for emotional investment, and only some individual scenes stick out (Liam Neeson hard carries). It doesn’t show any of the carnage caused by the trade federation, thus you don’t have any sympathy for Padme’s situation like you do Leia’s in ANH. Same problem with Anakin, no abuse is even hinted at. The mf literally goes “yippee” to his slave master. The only potential value that seeing Vader as a 9 year old could possibly offer is just thrown out the window. It’s just a fundamentally stupid concept making him that young, he either can’t do enough or anything he does is flat out ridiculous because, again, he’s 9. Obi-Wan has hardly anything to do. AOTC is the first prequel movie where Obi-Wan really feels like a character, in TPM he’s basically just Qui-Gon’s sidekick who bickers with him all the time. Even the relationship between the Gungans and the Naboo is squandered. Could’ve maybe actually explored why they hated each other and reconciling, as well as expounding upon whatever symbiotic relationship Obi-Wan was talking about, but nope. You can see that Lucas was trying to explore the themes of symbiotic relationships, that people need to work together in order to accomplish things, and as someone who takes a lot of interest in ecology, it’s an interesting concept, but it simply doesn’t come together.

I don’t like it for the same reason a lot of people who dislike the prequels like it the most of the 3: it’s irrelevancy to the larger story. I know many people hate AOTC more because it messes up Anakin, but not only does Obi-Wan still make it enjoyable for me, but trying and failing to tell Anakin’s story well is better then doing basically nothing at all.

Post
#1571519
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

Final Star Wars ranking after my 2023 annual Star Wars marathon

  1. Empire Strikes Back - 10/10
  2. Return of the Jedi - 10/10
  3. A New Hope - 10/10
  4. Rogue One - 9/10
  5. Revenge of the Sith - 7/10
  6. The Last Jedi - 7/10
  7. The Force Awakens - 7/10
  8. Solo - 6/10
  9. Attack of the Clones - 5/10
  10. The Phantom Menace - 3/10
  11. The Rise of Skywalker - 2/10

Yep, I came around on TLJ. TROS will forever suffer my wrath tho

Post
#1571414
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP)
Time

Thankfully, I will not have to resort to AI, at least for Palpatine’s new dialogue. Someone has reached out to me who can voice act Palpatine.

Here are the new lines I’m planning:
“He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep himself and his apprentice from dying.”
“Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep before he could heal himself.”
“Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to unlock Plagueis’ secret to cheat death.”
“I know you’ve always craved the power of eternal life, to deny death, just as much as I do. It is only natural. We must conquer the Jedi Temple, take back the Sith holocrons they have kept from us. Use what we can. With our powers combined, I know we can unlock Plagueis’ secret. If he could discover the secret, certainly the son of the Force itself could.”
“Together we will rule the galaxy forever. Me as Emperor, and you as my invincible enforcer. You will answer to no one but me, son.”
“Know the power of the dark side. The power of eternal life.”
“Every single Jedi, including your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi, are now enemies of our new Empire.”
“Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to cheat death.”
“Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy… forever.”

Post
#1571396
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Also, I’m doing this for my Vader edition of ROTS, I thought I’d share here.

I’m implementing the idea of Anakin turning because he craves immortality without having him have a vision of dying on Mustafar. That doesn’t really do much other then make Darth Vader into a self-preserving victim, the opposite of my intent.

Instead, I’d accomplish this by moving the opera scene before he has a nightmare (my version is also gonna have the political subplot moved before the nightmare). The dialogue would be edited and new voice lines would be done so that instead of “saving people from dying” it’s referred to as “cheating death”. This shows that Anakin is intrigued by the prospect even before he knows of Padme’s impending doom. The nightmare about Padme is moved forward all the way after Obi-Wan leaves Utapau (which thematically makes sense: for all Anakin knows, Grievous could kill Obi-Wan; now he’s faced with the prospect of losing another loved one).

It’d also be modified that Palpatine doesn’t even know about Anakin’s nightmare. Padme is never mentioned in any of his scenes with Palpatine. Though new dialogue with a Palpatine voice actor (I was gonna resort to AI, but I’ve just been offered help by someone who knows Palpatine voice actors), Palps offer isn’t to save Padme, but that they’ll figure out the secret to immortality together and Anakin will be second in-command of the Empire.

It makes far more sense for Anakin to believe Palpatine here. Instead of framing it as, “Palpatine is offering Anakin the power to save Padme”, it’s “Palpatine is offering Anakin to become his apprentice so they can learn to cheat death together and basically be immortal Force gods that rule the galaxy forever”. Anakin knows that the Sith’s ultimate goal is immortality, and that the dark side is the only potential path to it, as the light side is all about respecting the natural course of life. Palpatine craves that power as much as he does, and Anakin also has reason to believe Palpatine would actually make this offer to him, even for purely selfish reasons. Palpatine wants an all-powerful immortal being to enforce his Empire. Originally, Anakin would have no reason to believe Palpatine would actually have any investment in saving Padme and isn’t just lying. The Sith, a group of selfish egomaniacs would not have a power dedicated to saving others. Anakin figures if he can figure out the power to cheat death for himself, he can do it for Padme too, but the idea here is that Palpatine doesn’t pitch that. He’s not gonna pretend he, a selfish Sith lord, cares about Padme. Anakin should see through that lie, he’s encountered several Sith, and Palpatine should know he would see through that lie.

It also makes it so Palpatine has a solid plan, instead of just getting lucky that Anakin happened to have a nightmare about Padme, he simply preys upon a desire that Anakin has had since he was a powerless slave.

If we’re comparing to Michael Corleone’s arc in The Godfather, the nightmare functions less like the assassination attempt on Vito and more like Apollonia’s death. The final straw rather then the spark.

Post
#1571111
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP)
Time

New idea: what if the Darth Plagueis scene takes place before Anakin’s nightmare?

What this would do is show that Anakin has an interest in the power to cheat death before he even has any idea that Padme is going to die. Anakin is immediately intrigued by the prospect of cheating death and asks how to learn it. This would make Palpatine stating in their scene together later that he knows Anakin has always wanted immortality come less out of nowhere, and it also would do more to show that Padme’s death is the final straw rather then the sole reason.

Post
#1571105
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP)
Time

I just rewatched the Prequels as a part of my annual Star Wars marathon, so they’re now fresh in my mind. I’m making changes to my plans for my edits (and what I’ve done so far), taking into account my latest experience watching the films. TPM is especially gonna change dramatically (I liked it the least of the 3), but I’m still figuring out how (so it hasn’t changed much).

I’ve updated the changelist, but I’ll summarize the most important things here.

Anakin having a vision of himself burning on Mustafar isn’t happening anymore. I was trying to add an element of Vader craving immortality, but all it does is make it seem like he’s turning to the dark side out of basic self-preservation, which makes Vader too much of a victim, the opposite of my intent. Instead, I plan on adding this element through AI dialogue, mostly through Anakin’s scenes with Palpatine, as well as smart editing, emphasizing “the power to cheat death” over “saving Padme”. How exactly I will do it and what the exact dialogue will be, I don’t know. But it’s too important that I’m willing to resort to AI to accomplish it. The symmetry with his death in ROTJ is just too good of an idea. I’m also gonna use AI dialogue to have Palpatine outright promise him second in-command of his new Empire, thus further highlighting Anakin’s general lust for power.

I’m gonna attempt to keep Anakin’s scene with Yoda about his dream while keeping the Anakin/Palpatine/Council political subplot before the dream by moving Yoda going to Kashyyyk to later in the movie. It’s just such an impactful scene. It could mess up the pacing badly, but it’s worth an attempt.

I really appreciated the tight pacing around Anakin on rewatch, and am considering only keeping the third of the three Padme political scenes, or maybe just cutting the second one (it really doesn’t add anything). I think the third scene stands fine on it’s own, and if additional info is needed, the first is enough. Not final though, so I haven’t added it to the changelist.

Other then that, besides a couple minor things, the changelist remains mostly the same.

Post
#1571014
Topic
Star Wars A New Hope: DSG Special Edition <strong>(V1 NEARING COMPLETION)</strong>
Time

I think it’s really cool that this edit is making visual changes whilst still attempting to look like something made in 1977. Recently I’ve come to believe that maintaining that authenticity is really important, rather then shoving 90s CG (or more modern CG) into a 70s movie. It just doesn’t look right.

Post
#1564958
Topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Time

These are some cool ideas I might incorporate in my Prequel rewrite.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother.

Then why does Owen hate Obi-Wan so much?

Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

When did the Empire begin? What put him in the suit before he fought Obi-Wan?